Drying time for Ubeaut traditional wax

[Dengue]

This is probably another stupid question. After applying and wiping off Ubeaut traditional wax, is there any drying time for this wax before it hardens? I don't wish to collect finger prints on unhardened wax polish.

[antiphile]

Hi Jill

I'm a huge fan of wax finishes and have used an awful lot of different types. The Ubeaut Traditional Wax seems to be similar in many respects to many "cabinet maker's waxes" and is a delight to use. Yet I agree it tends to be prone to fingerprints etc.

These days, I like to put a few light coats of pure carnauba wax over the top at the end. Then after a week or so, I just buff it one more time (without putting any more wax on) and it seems to give me good long-lasting results.

All the best
Phil

[Dengue]

hi Phil, thanks for this insight, but not sure about the 2nd sentence.

Do you mean you actually put carnauba wax over the top of Traditional Wax, or do you use carnuaba wax instead of Traditional Wax??

[DJ’s Timber]

After applying and wiping off Ubeaut traditional wax

Hi Jill, just to clarify, your saying you wipe it off but wax is actually meant to be buffed or rubbed off vigorously.

I usually try not to handle it for a day but it can be handled straight away.

[Dengue]

wax is actually meant to be buffed or rubbed off vigorously

Thanks DJ. I wouldn't say I buffed it, but I do rub it as hard as these arthritic thumb joints permit. It still has a very waxy feel to the finish afterwards, which made me think that there may be a hardening time, hence this thread

[antiphile]

Sorry for such a slow response, Jill.

To clarify, I use 2 thin applications of Traditional Wax first. Then, I put two thin layers of carnauba wax over the top of the Traditional Wax.

Of course, each of the 4 coats is buffed before any further wax is put on. For the buffing, I have a very inexpensive setup using a bench-grinder, threaded attachments for the arbor, and a cotton polishing mop. I got it all from Bunnings for less than $100 but, in my opinion, it is well worth it and saves a lot of blood, sweat and tears! (I also discovered the arbor on the cheaper Ozito bench grinder isn't long enough to take the threaded attachments, so I got the Ryobi.) I've added a pic so you know what I'm talking about.

Cheers and all the best
Phil

[Dengue]

Thanks for this Phil, it looks really interesting. I see what you mean now about buffing each coat. I was in Bunnies today looking for hand drill buffing and polishing wheels, but could not find anything suitable.

Do you apply the waxes with the wheel, or just polish the workpiece after the wax is rubbed on?

Can you please tell us the type of wheels you use? I thought they were mainly used for polishing metal.

One last question, how do you clean the wheels?

[antiphile]

I only ever apply the wax by hand, and use the cotton wheel (often called a "mop") to buff it off.

The wheels I have on hand that are used for timber are the Josco Cotton wheels from Bunnings, and they can also be used on metal. However the ones I use for buffing waxed timber are only ever used for that purpose. I also keep a set of wheels for metal polishing, but these ones never ever go near a piece of wood. In my opinion, metal polishes and timber waxes should not be mixed.

Since the mop only ever buffs wax, I don't clean them because they never get "cross-contaminated" with anything else.

One more thing I should mention. If you want the ultimate result, it costs very little more to buy a softer polishing wheel called a swansdown mop. Ubeaut sell these, as do many other woodwork stores.

Cheers

[Dengue]

thanks for this info, antiphile, you have been very helpful, and I am sure there are many of us on this forum, like me, who have learnt lots

[Dengue]

thanks antiphile, very much appreciated. Back to Bunnies for me

[Dengue]

well Phil, went to Bunnies, and only found calico polishing wheel and the rag buff wheel. Are these the ones you use?

PS Only realised next day that calico is unbleached cotton !! duhhhh.... bad day yesterday

[antiphile]

Hello again to all fellow waxers (I hope "fellow" is not a misogynistic* term)

I know I'm often not very good at explaining things clearly, so I took a few pics yesterday to help clarify things better.

The first pic shows my rather meagre metal polishing kit. All of these I got from Bunnings at various times - and I'm hauling the names from the deep canyons of my warped mind so please don't hang me if I get some wrong. I also better add that I'm not an expert but these techniques seem to give me a result that I happy with.

I mainly use the metal polishing for maintaining my tools like rust removal and leaving the surfaces smooth to minimise the rust returning. This covers speed-bores, saws, circular saw blades, old hammers, chisels & screwdrivers etc etc. I start with the sisal wheel (the black one) and the Penetrene Oil (I find it more cost effective than WD40 or RP7) to remove any surface rust. There are probably faster/better ways to do it, but I worry about Mr Stupid heating things up too much and changing the temper of the metal. Then, if there is any slight pitting of the surface, I'll use the white polishing compound on the same wheel. For this, I hold the stick of polishing compound against the sisal wheel while it running to coat it, then press the metal tool onto the wheel. When I'm happy with the result (or if I don't need to use the white compound), I go on to the rouge polishing compound. Apply it to the sisal wheel, then gently press the item against the wheel to get a smoother surface. If you need to do a lot of either of these compounds, keep some water handy (I use an old plastic 4 litre ice cream bucket with some dishwashing liquid in it), and regularly dip the piece in to keep it cool enough to comfortably hold and control.

Wash the piece off and dry thoroughly with a clean rag. Then I use the stitched calico wheel on the bench grinder. I apply a little Penetrene to the tool using a small piece of chux-like cloth, and I put a few drops on the stitched calico wheel while its not turning. Then I give it a very light buffing making sure I leave a thin Penetrene-layer on the workpiece to prevent further rusting etc.

For small pieces (router bits etc) and pieces with sharp bits etc, do not use a wheel. Use maybe sandpaper by hand, an old toothbrush with Penetrene or similar etc. Wheels have an amazing ability to fling things very far and very fast. While it may look rather comical to some, a router bit does not feel at home embedded halfway through the frontal bone of a forehead. Similarly, people should not walk around with the corner of a highly polshed hinge in their eye. Always wear good eye & other protection; preferably one with FULL face covering. It's a lot cheaper than neurosurgery. Enforce this for anyone else in the vicinity too.

The 2nd pick show the wood-polishing stuff. I very rarely use a stitched calico wheel for timber. If I've sanded it properly, I only use the unstitched cotton wheels. I didn't include the Traditional Wax in the photo cos I got half of a friend's jar and it's in a reused glass jar. All 3 wheels are Josco unstitched cotton in various stages of use and abuse. I'll use each of these wheels when polishing a piece, and finish with the "clean" one at the end with the very lightest of possible pressure. But you don't need three - one will do a great job too. I 'spose I'm a creature of habit (or obsessive compulsive :B )

Remember, this is just the way I like doing it. You'll probably want to experiment a find method that suits you better, but maybe it will help you find a starting point.

Cheerio
Phil


* That's my word of the week!

[LGS]

Hello again to all fellow waxers (I hope "fellow" is not a misogynistic* term)

I know I'm often not very good at explaining things clearly, so I took a few pics yesterday to help clarify things better.

The first pic shows my rather meagre metal polishing kit. All of these I got from Bunnings at various times - and I'm hauling the names from the deep canyons of my warped mind so please don't hang me if I get some wrong. I also better add that I'm not an expert but these techniques seem to give me a result that I happy with.

I mainly use the metal polishing for maintaining my tools like rust removal and leaving the surfaces smooth to minimise the rust returning. This covers speed-bores, saws, circular saw blades, old hammers, chisels & screwdrivers etc etc. I start with the sisal wheel (the black one) and the Penetrene Oil (I find it more cost effective than WD40 or RP7) to remove any surface rust. There are probably faster/better ways to do it, but I worry about Mr Stupid heating things up too much and changing the temper of the metal. Then, if there is any slight pitting of the surface, I'll use the white polishing compound on the same wheel. For this, I hold the stick of polishing compound against the sisal wheel while it running to coat it, then press the metal tool onto the wheel. When I'm happy with the result (or if I don't need to use the white compound), I go on to the rouge polishing compound. Apply it to the sisal wheel, then gently press the item against the wheel to get a smoother surface. If you need to do a lot of either of these compounds, keep some water handy (I use an old plastic 4 litre ice cream bucket with some dishwashing liquid in it), and regularly dip the piece in to keep it cool enough to comfortably hold and control.

Wash the piece off and dry thoroughly with a clean rag. Then I use the stitched calico wheel on the bench grinder. I apply a little Penetrene to the tool using a small piece of chux-like cloth, and I put a few drops on the stitched calico wheel while its not turning. Then I give it a very light buffing making sure I leave a thin Penetrene-layer on the workpiece to prevent further rusting etc.

For small pieces (router bits etc) and pieces with sharp bits etc, do not use a wheel. Use maybe sandpaper by hand, an old toothbrush with Penetrene or similar etc. Wheels have an amazing ability to fling things very far and very fast. While it may look rather comical to some, a router bit does not feel at home embedded halfway through the frontal bone of a forehead. Similarly, people should not walk around with the corner of a highly polshed hinge in their eye. Always wear good eye & other protection; preferably one with FULL face covering. It's a lot cheaper than neurosurgery. Enforce this for anyone else in the vicinity too.

The 2nd pick show the wood-polishing stuff. I very rarely use a stitched calico wheel for timber. If I've sanded it properly, I only use the unstitched cotton wheels. I didn't include the Traditional Wax in the photo cos I got half of a friend's jar and it's in a reused glass jar. All 3 wheels are Josco unstitched cotton in various stages of use and abuse. I'll use each of these wheels when polishing a piece, and finish with the "clean" one at the end with the very lightest of possible pressure. But you don't need three - one will do a great job too. I 'spose I'm a creature of habit (or obsessive compulsive :B )

Remember, this is just the way I like doing it. You'll probably want to experiment a find method that suits you better, but maybe it will help you find a starting point.

Cheerio
Phil


* That's my word of the week!

Hi Phil,

What do you do if you want to wax and polish a 2.4 x 1.4m table top or an entire sideboard?

Regards,

Rob

[antiphile]

I will admit my arms get a bit sore holding the dining table over the 6 inch bench grinder!

I actually had to do that over the weekend (polish a very large and very solid coffee table that weighs much more than the dining table). I cheated, I must admit! Fortunately I didn't have to buy one because a friend lent me on a long-term loan a polisher and buffer he got from SuperCheap Auto a few years back. The only proviso is that if I haven't worn it out before he needs it, he can have use of it sometime.

It wasn't expensive but it works incredibly well. I think it is their generic brand, Rockwell, and is a 180 mm, 1200 watt, rotary polisher. The woolen buff wheel copes easily with wax, and I finished it off on its highest speed setting of "6" using the lightest of light pressure making sure not to heat anything up. I was really pleased with the result.

It also takes hook and loop 7 inch sanding discs, and has a type of a firm sponge pad attachment but I'm not quite sure what its used for :?

Better go back to the gym to build up my biceps though.

Cheers
Phil.

[LGS]

:cool::cool::D:D:):)

[tea lady]

I use trad wax over Danish Oil (rustins. ) on my turned pieces. After sanding to what ever grit you like (Usually around 400# unless it is going in a comp.) , the danish oil is buffed on while the piece is on the lathe. Then another coat later on. Then the next day I rub the trad wax on just with a cloth. Wait a bit for it to dry (I think cos it says that in the instructions. ) and then just buff off with a soft rag. A little rubbing, but I wouldn't go so far as calling it elbow grease. I guess I have done the burnishing already with the danish oil. But it comes up really nicely.

I haven't had probs with finger prints. :shrug: Maybe cos I am applying it over Danish oil rather than raw timber. Although the instructions say that is possible. :shrug: I don't think it needs more canuba wax on top. I thought canuba wax was already a large component of Ubeaut's Trad wax. :shrug: You would probably have more problems with finger prints if you were using bee's wax as it is so much softer. Another thought..... maybe cos the wax in warmed in its application you are using a buffing wheel, it would be serceptable to finger prints till it cooled down again and hardened a bit. :think:

[Dengue]

Thanks for your comments, TL, that makes life interesting :)

[tea lady]

Thanks for your comments, TL, that makes life interesting :)E#asier than all those buffuing wheels though. :cool: Also have a friend who uses Danish oil and trad wax on his furniture. No probs.

[Dengue]

I have been going through the process suggested by LGS of three coats of Wattyl Scandanavian Teak Oil rubbed in with steel wool, and then applying the EEE Ultra shine as a cutting compound before wiping off and then applying two coats of Traditional Wax. I believe you do get a better look with the grain with this finish, rather than using Danish Oil.

On a recent job, a mirror frame, I used a rag to wipe on and rub off the EEE and the Trad Wax, and was disappointed with the residual waxy feel, hence the beginning of this thread.

Today, on my current project of a long picture frame, I actually used the buffing method suggested by Phil above with the Ryobi bench grinder and calico buffing wheels, and buffed the wax off - an hour or so later there was no waxy feel. And my arthritic thumb joints were not painful from all that rubbing by hand :2tsup: That alone justified the expenditure on the polishing outfit

So, the waxy feel and the fingerprints on the mirror frame were probably because I had not buffed the finish strongly enough - the bench grinder and wheel will solve that problem in future!

The problem I do have is with the profile of the frame. It has two beads running around the perimeter, and I have found that the wax gets deep in the grooves, and hardens to an unsightly whitish residue, which to my mind has spoilt the finish - see the photos below

Can anyone please suggest how to get rid of this? I have tried scraping it out with a very sharp nail and rag, but that only makes it worse as the whitish compound spreads :(\


236479 236478

[tea lady]

:think: I'd be worried about rubbing the oil in with steel wool. If you have already sanded I don't think you should need to steel wool. :hmm: I thought it was for sanding the shellac finish after it had dried. Same friend I mentioned before just rubs danish oil on with rag or paint brush, and rubs off after a little drying time with a rag. He is a proffessional and gets real money for his work, so must know something.

The EEE needs to be completely removed before wax over it. You can remove it with the ol' swans down mop on a drill or something. . Do you have the polisher's hand book? Well worth getting. A good read as well as heaps of info you didn't know you needed to know. I would hazard a guess and say that the white in the profile you are worried about is actually EEE not the wax so much. :shrug: Try a soft tooth brush perhaps to get it out? I stole my kid's.

[LGS]

Jill,
I think Anne-Maria is right, It's most likely residual EEE cream. It's a bugger to get off beading!. Try a cloth with the nail inside it, with the cloth dampened with some Turps. You may have to rewax, but have a look after you finish with the Turps and see. The rag need only be damp, but see how damp you need it to move the precipitate, by starting with a slightly damp cloth and moving up in wetness from there until you get some action..

Regards,

Rob

[antiphile]

Hi again Jill

The white residue is not uncommon but usually really easy to remove with the cotton polishing mop. It could be from the EEE (like Rob and Tea Lady suggest) but Traditional Wax and any other Cabinet Makers Wax can also cause it.

Jill, I'm just wondering whether you're actually using the medium-coarse stitched calico cutting and buffing wheel rather than the softer, finer and more flexible unstitched cotton polishing mop. On the Josco brand that Bunnings stock, can you separate the individual leaves all the way down to the plastic axle? If yes, you've got the correct one and you should be able to easily get all the white residue from the EEE or the Trad Wax just by angling the piece slightly and using the "edge" of the wheel.

If you can't separate the individual leaves, you've got the stitched coarser mop. While it will still buff wax, it is very inflexible and doesn't buff up a gleaming finish even close to the softer one. In truth, that wheel is designed for use with wet pumice and some metal cutting compounds. It certainly won't get far into the beading.

As LGS mentioned, a swansdown mop is even softer and more flexible than a Josco unstitched cotton mop. If you get a chance, could you check the last 2 pics I posted to see which one Bunnings sold you?

Cheers
Phil

[Dengue]

Hi Rob and Anne-Maria, I have taken your advice and hit the white residue at the bottom of the beading with a sharp nail wrapped around a turps rag, and used a toothbrush to scrub out the stuff that was moved. Will see how it looks tomorrow morning, but I expect to put on another coat of Trad Wax.

Phil, the 2 wheels I am using are both soft, unstitched polishing wheels, where I can separate the layers easily. I had actually used the edges of the wheels to try and remove the white residue after the first coat of wax was applied. I didn't pay much attention to it when rubbing the EEE Ultrashine off with a 4" coarser wheel I had - but still unstitched. Suspect it was too late after the Trad Wax had been applied. Also the grooves in the beading are fairly deep and sharply angled at the bottom, so it is understandable that the wheels could not getn right down into them and clean them out

Tomorrow is another day, will be interesting to see how it starts out.

Many thanks for all your ideas and suggestions

[Dengue]

right, more lessons learnt today!!

After scraping out the white residue as best as I could do with a sharp nail and a damp rag using turps, I let it dry overnight. As expected these parts of the frame were duller than the rest, so decided to do another coat of wax and buffing using antiphile's Ryobi setup.

The Lesson to be learnt is not to load the rag with wax, as it is the excess that gets stuck down in the valleys of the beadings. After just smearing some wax on a rag, I flattened it on a flat edge of the frame before going near the moulded parts. After wiping this waxy rag on the mouldings, I immediately scraped the bottom of the grooves with a nail and clean rag, and then wiped the rest out with a toothbrush before doing the machine buffing - seemed to work OK, as by the pics below.



236595 236597 236598

For those interested, this is a panorama of three photos I took at the top of the mesa where the Australian Age of dinosaurs is located just south of Winton in Outback Qld. I did the photography, the merging of the three photos. I had it printed locally on to an A2 size print sheet, and a local framer cut the UV glass, the mat board, and the Foamcore backing.

Today, after buffing the frame, I fit the glass and photo to the frame, fixing in position with 6 x 6 mm pine beading I made and bradded to the frame, and then hung the frame - been busy morning :)

Very happy with the lot, esp how the pic, the mat board and the frame turned out well together.

[tea lady]

:2tsup: Got there in the end. :cool: Looks good.

[LGS]

Purdy!:2tsup: