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nz_carver
9th October 2012, 01:03 AM
Hey this one I have been trying to work out but it's driving me around the bend

Ok so it's a sort of given that if you make small stuff you use mini size tools
If your a tall person you have your lathe lifted up a little higher
You walk before you run

So can someone tell me is there a chuck to lathe size?
I mean I have a nova gen 3 chuck and a GPW Gen 3 chuck that's bigger in size the the nova

So I keep the nova on my mini and the GPW in my nova 1624 Now why I asked is I seen someone useing a stubby with a vicmarc vm 150 now that seamed normal to be big lathe big chuck
then I have seen someone use a wood fast M305x mini lathe with a vicmarc Vm 150 chuck I mean that's a big chuck for a little lathe rite?

So I'd like to know is there a rule of thum when it comes to chuck vs lathe?

Thanks
Nz_carver

issatree
9th October 2012, 01:31 AM
Hi Dave,
I don't think it is the Chuck so much, as the No. of Jaws, you can acquire.
I now have 5 Black Nova Chucks, all with different Jaws, & all work Perfectly.
The only Jaws I don't have, nor do I want, are the 50mm. Bowl Jaws, as I don't Turn Bowls.
If I had too, I wood put a Spigot on My Piece, & Grab it with My 35mm. Spigot Jaws.
My Pinocchio Jaws that have 2 Screws ( For all My Small Stuff.) get a lot of work, & they are a bit better than the Single Screw Small Jaws.
Not sure what Vicmarc provide, but I think they wood be about the same.

Jonzjob
9th October 2012, 06:48 AM
Hi from me too Dave. I have no idea as to what jaws you have? You have blinded me with science, but on my lowly Record CL1 I have a chuck that will turn an 18" platter for my lazy Susan

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/Lazys1.jpg

and with the bolt on jaws to reduce the size I turned a 'pinch between head and tail' chuck with which I turned the 5/8" inch balls to make it all turn, all 36 of them

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/Ballchuck3.jpg

So I am not too sure just what you are asking?

I also did some 1 1/12 scale dolls house bits using the same chuck and some self turned adaptors

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/Latheb.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f180/Jonzjob/Minicandlesticks2.jpg

With removable candles of course:D

Jim Carroll
9th October 2012, 08:48 AM
Dave just because you have a big lathe does not necessarily mean you have to have a big chuck.

You have the chuck and jaws to suit the job.

Small jobs small chucks and jaws, large jobs large chucks and jaws.

You would never put a VM150 on a midi lathe as this is overkill for the poor lathe but you can put a Nova G3 on a stubby.

The old saying is you can do small work on a big lathe but you cant do big work on a small lathe.

Man with most chucks wins.:2tsup:

Clear out your chucks and stick to one brand, you get used to how they work better and compatibility is easier.

In saying that the VM90/100 are not compatible with the VM120/140 but then you have the best of both worlds.

hughie
9th October 2012, 08:56 AM
The old saying is you can do small work on a big lathe but you cant do big work on a small lathe.
Man with most chucks wins.:2tsup: yay!




Yep! I wouldnt worry about it. We tend to change our lathes for bigger and and keep our chucks and move on. ie My chucks all dwarf the capacity of the Woodfast "14 swing and 29" on the chucks :o a somewhat large disparity.

We only sell the chucks if we are getting out of the game,otherwise its always a case of adding to the collection.

Its a fallacy that you can have too many chucks, It generally put around by the women in our lives :U

Mulgabill
9th October 2012, 09:30 AM
yay!




Yep! I wouldnt worry about it. We tend to change our lathes for bigger and and keep our chucks and move on. .......
Its a fallacy that you can have too many chucks, It generally put around by the women in our lives :U
I hear you brother. :;You can't have too many chucks, but her indoors just does not understand this concept!!!:no:

Paul39
9th October 2012, 11:08 AM
So I'd like to know is there a rule of thum when it comes to chuck vs lathe?

Thanks
Nz_carver

Usually the chuck manufacturer will say in the catalog or web site: "this size chuck for XX swing lathe". No problem putting a smaller chuck on a big lathe for small work, but one could have a problem trying to hold a great lump of out of balance timber with a little chuck.

Putting a big chuck on a small mini lathe will be self limiting on the size of timber, but it would be kinder to the bearings to use a smaller chuck.

If you do bowls from green and have different size jaws you will rough a batch of bowl with different jaws for either spigot or recess. Six to nine months down the road when the bowls are dry and ready to finish, you will find whatever bowl you pick to finish will have a different size spigot or recess than the jaws on the chuck.

After swapping jaws around a few times one gets the itch to buy a naked chuck body to mount the different sets of jaws.

With only one chuck, if one plans ahead we can do a run of bowls using the # 3 jaws, then a run of smaller ones using the #2 jaws.

Of course nature will dictate that the roughed out bowls will be ready to finish alternating # 2 and # 3 sizes.

Sawdust Maker
9th October 2012, 11:18 AM
Dave

What they all said



...
The only Jaws I don't have, nor do I want, are the 50mm. Bowl Jaws, as I don't Turn Bowls.
...

issatree
I note you said you don't want a 50mm set but if you ever get the urge to round out the collection, drop me a line as I've extra (don't know why you can't buy a chuck without a set of jaws attached :doh:)

stuffy
9th October 2012, 11:25 AM
Also keep in mind the max. rpm of my vm 120 is 2500. Not sure if smaller chucks can go faster.

Paul39
9th October 2012, 11:46 AM
issatree
I note you said you don't want a 50mm set but if you ever get the urge to round out the collection, drop me a line as I've extra (don't know why you can't buy a chuck without a set of jaws attached :doh:)

Oneway sells naked chucks, you add adapter of your choice and whatever jaws you choose or no jaws.

When I bought the stronghold for my 20 inch swing Woodfast, I went into the den of iniquity and got the chuck, the adapter for 1 1/4 inch spindle and # 3 jaws. I knew the price ordered from the factory and asked if they would match it and they did.

I will eventually buy a Talon for the 350 mm swing Hegner with the adapter for the 33 mm spindle and put my # 2 jaws on it to keep from having to swap back and forth on the original Oneway.

Those needing a bare chuck for existing jaws might lean on the dealer to get one, citing the above.

DJ’s Timber
9th October 2012, 11:56 AM
(don't know why you can't buy a chuck without a set of jaws attached :doh:)
But you can Nick, Jim sells the Vicmarc chucks without jaws, they're listed on this page (http://cws.au.com/shop/category/-vicmarc-chucks-accessories) as companion chucks :2tsup:

Sturdee
9th October 2012, 12:35 PM
(don't know why you can't buy a chuck without a set of jaws attached :doh:)

Gary Pye sells a no jaw chuck set. (http://www.garypye.com/Chucks/GPW-Generation-3-Collet-and-Longworth-Chucks/Gen-3-GP100-Limited-Edition-No-Jaws-Chuck-Set-p709.html)


Peter.

Tim the Timber Turner
9th October 2012, 06:04 PM
Man with most chucks wins.:2tsup:

I just counted my Vicmarc's.

Now I'm feeling unlucky.

Do you think I should get another one just in case?

Cheers

Tim

nz_carver
9th October 2012, 06:15 PM
Hey Jim yeah I know vicmarc are the way to go I'm working at making the change to them

I run 100 mm jaws on the nova and stock 50mm on the woodfast
Understand jaw to work size and all

it got me when I was at turn around to see this monster size vicmarc on a little mini lathe.

wheelinround
9th October 2012, 06:16 PM
Dave

What they all said




issatree
I note you said you don't want a 50mm set but if you ever get the urge to round out the collection, drop me a line as I've extra (don't know why you can't buy a chuck without a set of jaws attached :doh:)

You can at Trend Timbers.:U

NeilS
10th October 2012, 02:43 PM
In saying that the VM90/100 are not compatible with the VM120/140 but then you have the best of both worlds.

If you need to go above the 150mm dovetail jaw size, the only option is Vicmarc that has some really nicely made dovetail jaws running in increments right up to 223mm, but you do need at least the VM120 chuck to swing them and then, as Jim points out, you run into compatibility problems with the jaws that fit the VM120 and those that fit the VM90/100 chucks.

For that reason alone I'm not sure about throwing away either good Vicmarc or good Nova chucks to have them all the same brand, as it doesn't solve the jaw compatibility problem.

Nova made good chucks and jaws up to the Nova Deluxe (later re-badged the Titan with an extra screw hole) but then seem to lose their way for a while with their own incompatibility issues and with engineering details on their jaws and inserts, besides not keeping up with Vicmarc on the range of jaw sets available. For that reason I suggest that anyone starting out begin with Vicmarc.

But, I for one won't be letting any of my good Novas go that have had years of reliable use and still have years of good use left in them.

And, having both Nova and Vicmarc gives you more jaw set options, like the Nova 81mm bowl jaws (which they call for some reason their 75mm jaw set...:rolleyes:) which is a nice step between Vicmarc 72mm and the Nova 97mm jaws (they call 100mm jaws). Also the Vicmarc standard jaws which go down to 45/46mm in bowl jaw mode, unlike the Nova standard jaws that can only manage 51mm. The 45/46mm is a nice step between the 51mm and the Vic 36mm jaws.

So, as others have said, it's the jaw size/make that determines the chuck, and, unless you are very disciplined and prepared to be for ever changing jaws, the number of chucks will multiply... an expensive vortex which is waiting to suck us all in if we can't resist.

Not an unpleasant prospect, Jim...:D


I just counted my Vicmarc's.

Now I'm feeling unlucky.

Do you think I should get another one just in case?



Hmmm.... I'll be one short of a baker's dozen (but not all Vicmarcs) when a local unnamed Vicmarc agent delivers my next two. So, please don't make that three Tim, I don't need to tempt fate to be paid a visit...:(

RETIRED
10th October 2012, 03:20 PM
Well written Neil. My sentiments exactly.

Rod Gilbert
10th October 2012, 03:33 PM
Dave

What they all said




issatree
I note you said you don't want a 50mm set but if you ever get the urge to round out the collection, drop me a line as I've extra (don't know why you can't buy a chuck without a set of jaws attached :doh:)

Hi I have been looking for a set of standard 50mm jaw's for my nova titan Gary Pye doesn't have them if you wish to sell yours or know where I can get some could you let me know.
Regards Rod.

RETIRED
10th October 2012, 03:42 PM
Hi I have been looking for a set of standard 50mm jaw's for my nova titan Gary Pye doesn't have them if you wish to sell yours or know where I can get some could you let me know.
Regards Rod.I have a couple of sets of 50mm Jaws you can have. Just Pm your address and I will send them off.

Mobyturns
13th October 2012, 08:56 AM
Chuck to lathe size should be based upon manufacturers recommendations for both – max speed recommendations for chuck & jaws, max work piece dia etc. Small goes on big but big chucks on small lathes unnecessarily stress headstock spindle bearings (VM90 1.7kg – VM120 3.9kg – VM150 6kg) & also greatly increases rotating mass, time to decelerate etc due to flywheel effect. Big chucks also changes toppling moments – making the lathe much more tippy which is important with midi / mini lathes as mostly they are portable and not held down.

Recently I had a good conversation with Enzo from Vermec. He pointed out that Aussie manufacturers are struggling with the high <st1:stockticker>AUD</st1:stockticker> & also mentioned that his imported generic chucks are given a bit of work with swarf & burr removal plus plating before sale. So the extra few bucks at times may be well worth spending to have a safer burr free chuck.

Have to agree about the std jaw dia’s as well. I prefer the Vicmarc chuck’s. The VM90 45mm min dia is brilliant for spindle work & small bowls. The Nova midi also has a minimal jaw movement range, not that important really, given jaws sets should never be used past their safe working limit as it damages the scroll & is unsafe. Vicmarc’s chuck manual recommends min/max dia’s, max rpm etc. The Vicmarc std dovetail jaw profile I believe is the safest design & I’m not a fan of the Nova profile on their midi std jaws. That secondary bevel is nasty in my opinion & creates micro cracks in timber just where you don’t want them unless you are careful in cutting your spigot shape/profile.

Rod Gilbert
14th October 2012, 08:03 AM
I have had a couple of goes at a PM but I dont know if it has worked.
Regards Rod.:?

RETIRED
14th October 2012, 09:02 AM
Yes, got them.:cool::D

Sawdust Maker
14th October 2012, 03:33 PM
Thanks
I've still got some if anyone wants


back to chucks

Enzo (Vermec) made a chuck which took both vicmarc and nova jaw sets
I believe he is going to do it again but has been a little while in happening

Hah - thought I'd have a look and it seems he has got them on the market here (http://www.vermec.com/id41.html)
Should have looked before I posted :doh:

NeilS
14th October 2012, 11:34 PM
Enzo (Vermec) made a chuck which took both vicmarc and nova jaw sets
I believe he is going to do it again but has been a little while in happening

Hah - thought I'd have a look and it seems he has got them on the market here (http://www.vermec.com/id41.html)



I understand the Vermec CHU-600 chuck takes the jaws that fit the VM90 and VM100 chucks and the Nova chucks other than the Titan PowerGrip jaws, but not the jaws that fit the VM120, etc., but still a very good solution as far as it goes.

rsser
16th October 2012, 03:51 PM
I understand the Vermec CHU-600 chuck takes the jaws that fit the VM90 and VM100 chucks and the Nova chucks other than the Titan PowerGrip jaws, but not the jaws that fit the VM120, etc., but still a very good solution as far as it goes.

Indeed.

If things haven't changed in the last couple of years you will still have to drill out the VM 90/100 jaw holes by 1 mm though. No drama; couple of minutes work. (Because of the countersink the jaws remain backwards compatible).

My last chuck purchase was a bare GPW Gen 3 110 which has performed well with VM90/100 Shark jaws with drilled out holes.

Teknatool has some info on chuck to lathe size here (http://www.teknatool.com/support/Chuck%20Support%20Page.htm) but the link to 'which jaw set is best' is dead.

rsser
16th October 2012, 04:08 PM
Found another link to ratio of workpiece size to Nova jaw size/type here:

http://www.teknatool.com/products/Chuck_Accessories/Jaw_Sets/downloads/jawset_poster.pdf

NeilS
17th October 2012, 09:25 AM
And, while on compatibility, a workable retrofit is Vermec's jaw adaptor set (http://vermec.tripod.com/PDFs/adaptor_plates_info.pdf) that allows Nova (and Bonham) chucks to take VM90/100 jaws.

rsser
17th October 2012, 06:14 PM
Yes, have used those. They look somewhat rustic but they work.

While I haven't bought chucks or jaws for a while, I remain a fan of VM jaws and remain prepared to fit them to other chuck brands.