Flattening Water Stones

[Ausworkshop]

Well I tried out my new King waterstones today and the King 1200 took me ages to get flat before I could even use it and now it needs flattening again after sharpening one blade. I know this has probably been covered a hundred times and I've read a lot about people using sand paper on glass diamond plates etc. I used 120grit W&D on glass using spray adhesive as Jim Davey recommended to me when I bought them at the Melb wood show. I tell ya what, this took me about 3hrs with a few breaks, my arms are sore. I spent the whole 9hr day mainly flattening stones for sharpening one blade so I could use it. I love using my planes but unless I can come up with a quicker way to flatten the stones the whole sharpening process just takes way too long for me. I will end up reaching for the sander and my planes will sit on the shelf. There must be a quicker way, when you have orders to get out the door who has time for sharpening if it takes this long?

The 1200 King stone took ages and still has a low triangle area end on the corner which will flatten out over time as the rest of the surface comes to meet it, it was like this when i got it. I can use it for now but would be good to get to use the whole top surface area.
The 6000 Ice Bear one was actually not too bad and flattened out quickly, I thought this much finer stone would be harder but it turns out the 1200 seems to be the hard one to flatten despite what I've read.

[johnredl]

I use an extra coarse DMT diamond stone (diasharp I think), that i bought from carbatec, to flatten my ceramic stone. I rub them together under running water and I'm done in about 30 seconds (no exaggerating). Hope that helps :)

[johnredl]

Oh, also, do them after each sharpen, or when they get a bit 'mucky' with steel and don't cut properly.

[Ausworkshop]

Thanks, I'll have to give it a try, just worried I might wear out my new DMT. I've got the duo sharp plus, it has a 325grit side so I'll just sacrifice that I guess, the 600 side cuts nice and quick anyway so I'll save that side for the first bevel on my planes and use the 325 side for flattening stones. I still think it will take me longer than 30secs tho. I seem to take longer than most at anything I try to do with sharpening.
Maybe I'm getting old.

[groeneaj]

Andrew,
It might also be a technique problem? Maybe not but worth having a look at.

I used to flatten my waterstones with glass and sandpaper and it didn't take longer than 2 minutes (depends on how out of flat your stones are). I got over this technique and purchased a DMT duosharp but for some reason I could not get a flat surface so I checked the DMT for flatness and it was bowed. I sent it back and purchased a DMT lapping plate and have had no issues since.

Good luck,
Andy

[johnredl]

You won't wear out a diamond stone with a ceramic stone. Try it under water, that way you wash the guk off the stone and it cuts faster.

[snafuspyramid]

Something fishy must be going on if you're flattening a King stone for three hours. These are really soft stones. If I flattened mine for that long with any medium, I would no longer have a stone at the end. Maybe the sandpaper got loaded with slurry and stopped cutting?

[Pac man]

If you bought them from Jim drop him an email or PM him (he's a member) if there is a problem he would want to know about it and help you out.

[GarciaJ]

Andrew,
It might also be a technique problem? Maybe not but worth having a look at.

I used to flatten my waterstones with glass and sandpaper and it didn't take longer than 2 minutes (depends on how out of flat your stones are). I got over this technique and purchased a DMT duosharp but for some reason I could not get a flat surface so I checked the DMT for flatness and it was bowed. I sent it back and purchased a DMT lapping plate and have had no issues since.


I think that Andy maybe on to something... Have a look a this article on the Carbatec Website

CARBA-TEC (http://www.carbatec.com.au/waterstones_jan_schilling)

1- Sharpening with pulling strokes rather than with pushing strokes makes less gouges on the stone which is then easier to keep flat.

2- While restoring the stone, the recommended method is rubbing on wet - wet and dry paper - on a flat surface such as glass using a figure 8 motion.

Note the advice of keeping the stones wet and in a zip lock bag.

Hope this info was of use.

Regards

Jorge

[johnredl]

Interestingly, this last week I've been doing a lot of sharpening, so I've left my stones in water all week. I'm not sure if I'm getting better are sharing or my, but they seem to be cutting better after soaking for days. Is it ok to store them in water?

[rsser]

Another option for flattening is to use coarse SiC grains on glass. I've used #36 which is pretty aggressive and saved for the Shapton #120. With finer stones #90 from Veritas.

You need to monitor glass flatness with this. Figure of 8 motion is less damaging than up and back. But in time I'd expect the glass would need replacing.

I'm now playing with 100 micron PSA 3M Microfinishing films. Equiv. to about #150 in W&D. It lasts longer than W&D but does wear out, and it's not easy to source.

Diamond plates are good if you can afford them. They don't go coarse enough for a #120 stone though. For one-off jobs on stones above #400 I use the Atoma economy job from Tools from Japan (http://www.toolsfromjapan.com)

[GarciaJ]

Interestingly, this last week I've been doing a lot of sharpening, so I've left my stones in water all week. I'm not sure if I'm getting better are sharing or my, but they seem to be cutting better after soaking for days. Is it ok to store them in water?

Hi John, try reading the article in the link I provided in my previous post... It says that storing the stones moist in a plastic bag is preferable. There are other good tips in there too.

[pjt]

For the 400 stone I use a piece of granite plate with coarse grit 80 at a guess plenty of water with a roundish sort of motion, this takes only minutes and I can see the flattness "appearing" as the grit leaves marks in the high spots and as soon as I get full cover I'm done, look at it again after a wash off in running water and reflections should be a straight, if curves it's not flat, I maintain that flatness with each blade or two, the 1000 I simply rub on the plate in the same manner as above, only takes minutes.


Pete

[johnredl]

Hi John, try reading the article in the link I provided in my previous post... It says that storing the stones moist in a plastic bag is preferable. There are other good tips in there too.

After posting last, I emailed Stuart from 'Tools from Japan' and asked him about storing my stones in water, although I did mistakenly ask him about shapton pro instead of my Sigma ones. Here is his reply:

Hi John,

The Sigma Power stones I sent to you a while ago, or are they Shapton Pro stones?

Because the manner in which they're stored is vastly different...

Shapton Pro should never be soaked for more than 5-10 minutes, and when you're done dried off and left somewhere to air dry away from heat, cold or a breeze. They need to dry out slowly and carefully.

Sigma Power, wet, dry, whatever. They don't care. Soaked for a minute or a millennia, doesn't matter. Leave them out to dry somewhere, anywhere. Keeping them 'damp' isn't a good idea purely due to things like mold and fungus, but soaked is fine.

I fear that if they're Shapton (come in a plastic case, colour coded) they might already be permanently damaged...

When a Shapton is left wet, it starts to break down, becomes softer and may disintegrate. I know one left in a bucket will turn to mud in not too long a time.

Stu, toolsfromjapan.com

[Brobdingnagian]

I have been using a DMT Dia-Flat Lapping Plate for over a year now, and it seems to takes no time at all to flatten any stone (a couple of minutes max) and does not seem to show any wear at all. The only down side is the cost.

[Ausworkshop]

I might have to give the Atoma a try, sounds to be faster from what I read. (if I can afford to spend even more money on sharpening)
I was using quality W&D under running water so there was no clogging on the paper but maybe I should change the sheet more often. As I said this was just the initial flattening of the stone, I hadn't even used it yet, it still has a low spot on one corner but I don't have time to flatten for another hour or so. I've used veritas silicon grit on glass before and it usually results in a dished out piece of glass pretty quickly.

Maybe if I soaked the stone for a few days it will be softer but at this stage it seems pretty hard to flatten on W&D as I said I had sore arms and legs from squatting at the water tank tap for so long under running water while trying to hold a large piece of glass and the stone. I'm turned off sharpening for a while now and on to other things but i'll give it another go some day. If I keep my stone in water I'm worried it will go mouldy or full of slime as I hardly ever use it. I've heard some people use a few drops of bleach in the water, hopefully this will not damage the stone.
I don't like the idea of having water stored in the cupboard near my tools (which I have in there to protect from rust) and don't have room to leave it out anywhere getting covered in dust.

Maybe I'm just being fussy but it seems a hassle to me, I want to enjoy sharpening or it will never get done.
Thanks for all your ideas.

[rsser]

With W&D or loose grains you only need a little water. It's just a matter of keeping the abrasive from clogging. It should not be a messy matter. A paste like sloppy toothpaste is my signal.