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BlackbuttWA
14th November 2012, 12:28 PM
G'day there,

With the help of a mate I now finally have a rest for outboard turning.
What do you experienced guys do in regards to safety etc ?
Do you turn at 90° or 180 ° from the normal between centre position ?
I have a few burls with "wings" that I am eager to try out.

Edited ***
Apologies, I used incorrect terminology.
What I meant was....I have a swivel head & wanted to know if it is more stable or safer etc to use at 90° or 180° from the normal between centre turning .

Regards
Col

hughie
15th November 2012, 12:09 AM
As to the angles its pretty well is up to you and what fits and is comfortable. The name of the game is to have it all as solid as you can, lock it all down solid and away you go. :2tsup:

BobWoodworks
15th November 2012, 12:10 AM
Hi Col,
I turn large bowls and platters all the time, some up to 800mm dia. I have turned circular architraves up to 1.5m Dia. When turning large stuff you should attack your piece as though you are turning a small bowl over the bed. Meaning, its not much different to normal turning. except for the size factor. Take your time and you won't have a problem. Don't forget to drop your speed,

Drillit
15th November 2012, 09:20 AM
Hello Blackbutt WA,
Strongly endorse prior comments. And I add, because you cant use the tailstock to support chuck with a standard type bowl,
it is really important to ensure the piece is secure. I assume that you are turning with a left hand thread on the outboard. You can use
a face plate (with L. H thread) and also add hot melt glue to the face plate and secure it that way before you add the stout screws thru faceplate for added strength.
I have also used glue chuck without faceplate and screws. You may also find, if your lathe is not bolted down, that with a big out of balance piece you will need to add weight
like a sand bag or two to the lathe bed for added ballast. A starting lathe speed of 150rpm or less is probably the safest. As you get into balance you can then increase to safe speed.
Others may also want to add comments. I have never turned pieces like does or Bobwoodworks. Hope this helps, John M.

orraloon
15th November 2012, 10:03 AM
Hi Col,
I take it your lathe has a swivel headstock so you can come at it however it suits you best. Observe all the advice already posted by the others. If you have not turned outboard before then start small under 300mm to get the feel and gradually turn larger. The lowest speed on your lathe will be the limiting factor. As an example my lathes slowest is 350rpm so I am not game to go over about 400mm diameter. Anything larger gets scary. Save the winged bowls untill you have a few hours practice under the belt. Have you a pic of the set up?
Regards
John

NeilS
16th November 2012, 10:27 AM
I do most of my turning outboard and prefer to set the rotating headstock at 90 deg to the inboard bed. That position provides the optimum stability for any out-of-balance blanks; as the lathe legs are furthest apart in relation to the rotation swing while the bed itself acts as a long heavy stabiliser that runs parallel to the swing.

rsser
16th November 2012, 12:16 PM
Another thing to consider is where a headstock position leaves you in relation to the KILL switch.

If it's fixed and blocked by the workpiece, consider installing an inline mushroom switch and box in the power lead.

This will prob. stop any electronic braking the lathe has however.

This is of course last-resort stuff. All the advice above is important in avoiding last resorts.

Or maybe the real last resort is to dive under the lathe stand :rolleyes:

Drillit
16th November 2012, 06:03 PM
Hello Blackbutt WA,
Strongly endorse prior comments. And I add, because you cant use the tailstock to support chuck with a standard type bowl,
it is really important to ensure the piece is secure. I assume that you are turning with a left hand thread on the outboard. You can use
a face plate (with L. H thread) and also add hot melt glue to the face plate and secure it that way before you add the stout screws thru faceplate for added strength.
I have also used glue chuck without faceplate and screws. You may also find, if your lathe is not bolted down, that with a big out of balance piece you will need to add weight
like a sand bag or two to the lathe bed for added ballast. A starting lathe speed of 150rpm or less is probably the safest. As you get into balance you can then increase to safe speed.
Others may also want to add comments. I have never turned pieces like does or Bobwoodworks. Hope this helps, John M.
To add to the above having noted later comments. With my outboard (No swivel head) I added a footswitch for all purposes so as I dont have to lean across and down to turnoff. I would recommend to anyone. Drillit.

rsser
16th November 2012, 06:11 PM
Footswitch can be a good idea.

Just be aware that some Chinese units are not properly wired.

NeilS
16th November 2012, 07:20 PM
Another thing to consider is where a headstock position leaves you in relation to the KILL switch.



One of the reasons I 'upgraded' my old Woodfast to a newer model was so I could have the detachable control box which allows me to move that to wherever is most convenient, which is usually beside or just behind me, and well out of the firing line.

Likely to also become priority for anyone who is doing more than just the occasional bit of outboard turning .

I wonder how long it will be before remote wireless lathe controllers (http://stusshed.com/2012/09/02/teknatool-living-up-to-its-name/) become standard?

rsser
16th November 2012, 08:34 PM
Yep, the new, big, 'tool has wireless remote.

If the lathe uses the control procedure of the DVR XP, it won't have electronic braking. So expect to wait too long even with a modest lump (40 seconds by my watch). Not 'appropriate' as mealy-mouthed journo's might say. In my book it's a serious risk factor.

Mobyturns
16th November 2012, 10:10 PM
Yep, the new, big, 'tool has wireless remote.

If the lathe uses the control procedure of the DVR XP, it won't have electronic braking. So expect to wait too long even with a modest lump (40 seconds by my watch). Not 'appropriate' as mealy-mouthed journo's might say. In my book it's a serious risk factor.

Some of us can’t use the latest generation of lathes & their remotes due to potential interference with medical implants, things like pacemakers & defibrillators even much as I hate to say it bowel controllers (not me by the way though I am battery opperated with EFI). :no:

Electronic braking is fine as long as you also use mechanical spindle “locks” on your chucks & face plates. Nothing worse than a large chunk of wood winding off the spindle & hitting the bed or tool rest and finding its own way around your workshop / shed. :oo:

Tim the Timber Turner
17th November 2012, 08:29 AM
[QUOTE=NeilS;I wonder how long it will be before remote wireless lathe controllers (http://stusshed.com/2012/09/02/teknatool-living-up-to-its-name/) become standard?[/QUOTE]

Check out the latest offering from Technitool.

I have enough trouble finding the car keys and TV remote without worrying about where I put the lathe remote control.

Cheers

Tim:)

rsser
17th November 2012, 08:31 AM
Have had a Stubby 1000 and now a Vicmarc 175 - both have electronically controlled rampdown and neither needs locks. The Stubby IIRC was programmed to stop in 8 secs. Haven't timed the Vicmarc. It takes a jerk to unseat a chuck and that doesn't happen.

NeilS
17th November 2012, 10:29 AM
If the lathe uses the control procedure of the DVR XP, it won't have electronic braking. So expect to wait too long even with a modest lump (40 seconds by my watch).

Dick Vietch also picked up on that problem in his Review of the DVR 2024 (http://www.teknatool.com/products/lathes/2024/Downloads/Magazine%20Article%202024_June%202012.pdf). Definitely a downside.

While on the DVR 2024, that outboard rig looks way too flimsy to my eye. Good enough for holding a planet style lamp, the way Dick is using it, but I'm not sure it would take too much pounding. Anyone given that outrigger a good hard test run?

Outriggers configuration is another consideration with outboard turning. You make do with whatever comes with the lathe if you only occasionally turn outboard, but if you do a lot of outboard work it becomes a significant factor in choosing a lathe.




I have enough trouble finding the car keys and TV remote without worrying about where I put the lathe remote control.



....:U

tea lady
17th November 2012, 11:36 AM
The main thing is having the lathe well tied down to the floor. Its a bit tricky chasing the lathe around the shed while you are working. :D

rsser
17th November 2012, 02:26 PM
Neil, I used the outrigger designed for the DVR XP. Can't say how similar it was to the one on the big new lathe but it was hefty enough. The main shortcoming was a design one; it didn't extend that far out and when you had even just a 10cm chuck on the lathe you had insufficient reach to hollow a decent sized bowl.

NeilS
17th November 2012, 03:31 PM
Neil, I used the outrigger designed for the DVR XP. Can't say how similar it was to the one on the big new lathe but it was hefty enough. The main shortcoming was a design one; it didn't extend that far out and when you had even just a 10cm chuck on the lathe you had insufficient reach to hollow a decent sized bowl.

OK

Thanks, Ern.

rsser
17th November 2012, 03:37 PM
Should add that it needs a solid stand, since the outrigger hangs off the lathe.

I used GJ's legs and he's still complaining about their absence :rolleyes:

NeilS
18th November 2012, 01:27 PM
Should add that it needs a solid stand, since the outrigger hangs off the lathe.



I note that the new NOVA DVR 2024 model comes with cast iron legs, although they appear to be not as hefty as those on other lathes in that style/price range, but weight could be added to the shelf between the legs to compensate for that.

I like the 2.3HP rating on the drive and the remote, but the limited reach of the outrigger (they say it has a "clearance from the spindle for work with a thickness up to 8.5in/215mm") would be an issue for me. A minimum of 100rpm is another limitation. And, I have always had reservations about the cost of replacing the drive unit on the NOVAs should it fail; I expect a tad more than a few hundred for a standard lathe motor.

With the outrigger the price tag is just over the $4k, which is $1k more than the C1000X for the added benefits of an additional 0.8HP, plus the remote control, which seems like fair value for the additional $s.

Worth considering.

Apologies for going off topic, but I guess relevant for anyone thinking about a lathe for outboard turning.

BlackbuttWA
18th November 2012, 02:07 PM
Many thanks to all the replies...even those off-topic ones..:)

My lathe is a Sherwood 1642. I have already fitted a remote on/off switch which is great & very useful when needed.
The stand is solid steel & is a drilling tip used in mining up North. It is 25cm wide, 105cm tall. I don't know what the weight is but it is B****y heavy.
Just a matter of bolting the lathe down & finding time to try it out.:)

Col

NeilS
18th November 2012, 02:10 PM
While looking at the different outriggers available for outboard turning I came across this one (http://www.equipmentsalesandsurplus.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=1791-254)..... now, that's an outrigger to drool (and trip) over!

Thanks Col for getting me going on this. Now you have me thinking... :think:

rsser
18th November 2012, 03:02 PM
That looks nifty Neil, and would be a bit less of a workout to move around than the VM hinged floor-support model.

BTW, I had GJ's Jet cast iron legs and they were nice and heavy but would've worked better if they'd been splayed more. I added cross-braces on the long side at the back and that didn't help.

The stand-out feature of the T/tools is the smooth powerful motor.

But when a member of that 'club' I heard several accounts of folk waiting a long time for replacement motherboards.

RETIRED
18th November 2012, 04:39 PM
Many thanks to all the replies...even those off-topic ones..:)

My lathe is a Sherwood 1642. I have already fitted a remote on/off switch which is great & very useful when needed.
The stand is solid steel & is a drilling tip used in mining up North. It is 25cm wide, 105cm tall. I don't know what the weight is but it is B****y heavy.
Just a matter of bolting the lathe down & finding time to try it out.:)

ColCol, I think that the 250mm base may be too small. Proceed with caution and see how it goes particularly at the end of the rest.

RETIRED
18th November 2012, 04:48 PM
While looking at the different outriggers available for outboard turning I came across this one (http://www.equipmentsalesandsurplus.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=1791-254)..... now, that's an outrigger to drool (and trip) over!

Thanks Col for getting me going on this. Now you have me thinking... :think:That would be better if it had a stand right to the floor under the bed.

Definitely a good idea and similar to one that I use on the Teknatool. The banjo actually flexes a bit on this. :shrug:

RETIRED
18th November 2012, 04:57 PM
:duh: Forgot the pics.241321241320

NeilS
19th November 2012, 07:40 AM
That would be better if it had a stand right to the floor under the bed.



Yes, had the same thought myself.

Thanks for the photos of yours, .

BlackbuttWA
19th November 2012, 11:07 AM
Col, I think that the 250mm base may be too small. Proceed with caution and see how it goes particularly at the end of the rest.

Already thought of that , thanks.

I have a 45cm x 2mm round disc from disc plough which I can weld to the base to make a bigger footprint.
This should increase the stability. Just need to get the welder out.:)

Col

RETIRED
19th November 2012, 12:00 PM
Already thought of that , thanks.

I have a 45cm x 2mm round disc from disc plough which I can weld to the base to make a bigger footprint.
This should increase the stability. Just need to get the welder out.:)

Col:2tsup:

Grant Mack
21st November 2012, 09:53 PM
Having read all the above with interest, is there any consensus\opinion on the Nova 2024 vs say the bigger Vicmarc or Stubby's? (apart from or including price $ wise) i.e fit for purpose (mainly bowls and hollow forms)
Regards
Grant

NeilS
22nd November 2012, 01:00 PM
...is there any consensus\opinion on the Nova 2024 vs say the bigger Vicmarc or Stubby's?



Plenty of opinions Grant, but when it comes a consensus we are a bit like lawyers; ask 12 lawyers a question and you get 13 different opinions...:U

There are enthusiastic advocates on the forum for each of those three brands.

From my perspective as an outboard bowl turner, the three lathes you have nominated are very different beasts.

The Nova is primarily a swivel head lathe optimised for both inboard and outboard turning, whereas the larger Vicmarcs (not the VM175) and Stubbys (with the exception of one rare model) are fixed head inboard turning lathes.

Some bowl/platter turners prefer tail stock support for various stages of turning and for them inboard is where they do most of their turning. They seem to be able to cope with any back and neck stress caused by working over the bed while turning and sanding the inside of pieces.

My back and neck prefer outboard turning and I have learned to live without a tail stock for most of what I do.

One of the features of the Stubby is its swing bed; their particular solution that allows a more balanced stance while working the inside of pieces.

Lathe weights and build quality are other considerations which may be more or less important depending on your needs and budget.

PS - you don't see the Nova in many production turners' workshops (although I note that still has an earlier model), which might say something about where it sits in the market. It may have more of a following in artistic turning studios. The more substantial 2024 may change that.

Note: I have never used a Stubby or a Nova 2024, so take the above comments for what they are... the opinions of someone who keeps looking at all options but hasn't yet found the ideal next lathe after/beside his Woodfast C1000X... :think:

rsser
22nd November 2012, 03:16 PM
13 opinions from 12 practitioners sounds like doctrinal debates in religions :rolleyes:

Would just add: you can do larger pieces on the VL200 and 300 by turning outboard with the VM outrigger or a freestanding tool rest. That'd give you good access to the workpiece at the expense of hefting around the toolrest. If your workpiece mounting and technique are sound, you don't need tailstock support.

Another plus with a Stubby 100 or 750 is that you can alternate outside and hollowing cuts using the supplementary headstock-mounted bed*. The downside, at least given how I like to work, is that for outside shaping you need to learn how to do pull cuts. I did but found it slower working than with push cuts alone.

As for the big Teknatool, if there's been no improvement in QC over the DVR-XP that I owned, I couldn't recommend it. That's only a sample of one I should emphasise but I found talking with other users and being on a Nova forum that my experience wasn't atypical.

In terms of service and support, here in Aus. it's hard to beat Vicmarc.

Then there's the matter of what size you need. If you're selling stuff there's not a big demand for huge bowls and platters and sourcing large sound blanks isn't easy.

My Stubby 1000 could turn 110cm diam. The biggest blank I mounted on it was 60cm, turned down to 50cm diam. That was plenty big enough to sit on a large table.

*Added: under some circumstances it can work better if you make your last cuts outside finishing cuts. The pressure of the tool is more towards the chuck and bowl flex is reduced.

Grant Mack
22nd November 2012, 10:07 PM
Thank you for the replies Gentlemen.
I am currently using a JET 1642 which is great for most of my work, but, I don't need 42" of bed length, and, thus it is a big footprint in my shed.
Also, I have some timber that is greater than 16" in diameter but cannot find an outboard steady\rest\tripod to suit the JET.
Have been lovingly looking at Vicmarc 200\300's and Stubby 750's (SWMBO says it's only a hobby!) :o
Must admit that the last PRC made TK chuck I bought I felt was not up to the standard of the same SN2 NZ chucks I have.
Part of the problem living here in the Wild West is that often you buy sight unseen as the obession\hobby is not in large enough in population numbers for the products to be stocked.
Thus feedback from the Forum is much appreciated.
Again, Thanks for the replies
Grant

NeilS
23rd November 2012, 03:38 PM
Here you are Grant. VICMARC VL175 Wood Turning lathe $3,900.00 Donnybrook WA (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/donnybrook/tools-diy/vicmarc-vl175-wood-turning-lathe/1007988686)

Looks almost unused and includes an outrigger. As new, the package worth well over $5k. And, delivered before Xmas...:U