Woods to avoid? Toxic/allergic?

[Pilchard]

Cocobolo is a wood used alot in fishing rod reel seats, I know there are risks involved in turning it and will be careful. When the time comes.

I am wondering why a wood forum does not have, or maybe I have not found a section on problematic timbers. It's a big forum, I haven't been a member long but I'm reading as fast as I can.

Can someone give me a short list of possible and or timbers to take care with. I used to do alot of lopping work and haven't found something that really storrs me up except calistamon leaves which give me minor skin irritation. My major concern is residual dust and or oil left on my skin and my interaction with my kids. My son seems to be allergic to life, solvol or fast orange after work and a good scour before going near him is key.Heavens forbid we change from soap to a body wash:no:

I'm looking for a general heads up of stuff to try and avoid or maybe not turn altogether. Who knew this wood thing could be so complicated.

Thanks

[Dalboy]

This is a Health and Safety article from the UK may be of some use. It does not cover all woods

241149

[groeneaj]

Hi Pilchard,
Welcome to the forums.
Here is a link with a list of woods with reactions, areas affected and potency. It also has some other useful information.

Wood Allergies and Toxicity | The Wood Database (http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-and-toxicity/)

You can also do a search through our Safefy forum where you'll find threads related to allergies etc.

Andy

[dr4g0nfly]

The best two lists have been linked so I'll just add a UK woodturners joke,

There are two sorts of woodturners;

Those that are allergic to Cocobolo and those that will be!

[Cliff Rogers]

Timber Health Hazards (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/badwood.htm)

[fineboxes]

There appears to be list upon list of timbers that have negative effects, but the only real way to find out is with personal experience.

I have a reaction to a couple of timbers that seem quite inert to others, where as I've never had a problem with cocobolo or blackbean for that matter.

I guess keep a record of reactions and either steer clear of the nasty ones for you. And take precaution or antihistemeans before working with 'em.

Cheers

Steve

[dai sensei]

A search would have helped you, plenty of info on these forums :rolleyes:

As for cocobolo, there is an old saying - "everyone is allergic to cocobolo, it is just a matter of time". Using appropriate masks will delay reactions as long as possible.

[hughie]

Well WorkCover has pretty well determined that all wood dust is detrimental to health.

http://www.workcover.nsw.gov.au/formspublications/publications/Documents/guide_safety_wood_products_manufacturing_industry_5480.pdf


WOOD DUST
Timber dust poses a risk to the health and safety of employees within the
wood products manufacturing industry. These dusts can be generated through
cutting, thicknessing or machining of the timber materials during manufacturing
of the product

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Wood allergies are like any allergies in general. For any given wood someone, somewhere, will be allergic to it.

As has been said, Cocobolo is definitely a major player. More locally, I know that the fine dusts from Tas. Blackwood, Merbau and Jarrah can cause people grief although they haven't caused me any problems. (I guess I should qualify that with a "yet." :rolleyes:)

Any spalted woods are definitely face-mask material.

All in all, it's safer to just take measures to not breath in any wood dust. ;)

[Mobyturns]

Sometimes its parts of the wood - I have seen Raintree heart wood being sanded with a few others around sneezing etc, but when the sapwood that is turned thats a whole new level - almost all were having issues with the fine dust.

[mkypenturner]

Sometimes its parts of the wood - I have seen Raintree heart wood being sanded with a few others around sneezing etc, but when the sapwood that is turned thats a whole new level - almost all were having issues with the fine dust.
gotta love rain tree but i reckin its bloody worse than mackay cedar :(( mackay cedar is banned from being turned at my club but we have a huge pile of rain tree that can be turned there :?

[Drillit]

Hello Pilchard,
Agree with Hughie. The OH & S People have declared that all wood dust is carcinogenic (i.e cancer causing).
It is important then to take all necessary precautions. I suggest that you have a look at 's short videos on Utube,
ozwooodturner1. They are very instructive. Drillit.

[rsser]

Good advice there.

Some wood dust can affect skin as well as airways.

Some (eg. spalted stuff) can be seriously bad for you from the off. Some over progressive exposure will in time create an allergic reaction.

If you suffer from hayfever you may find that the airways fire up with any wood dust.

[powderpost]

Timber Health Hazards (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/badwood.htm)
There is a number of lists around, similar to this one. Without attempting to reduce the importance of this topic, there should be a preface to these lists that reads, "known to produce symptoms in some people". Most medicines include a list of "known possible reactions", but most people do not have reactions. Prevention is always better than cure, use breathing and face protection. My comment is, "Proceed with caution".
Jim

[Mobyturns]

Good advice there.

Some (eg. spalted stuff) can be seriously bad for you from the off. Some over progressive exposure will in time create an allergic reaction.

There was an article “Spalted Wood: Health & Safety” in a recent AAW journal 26.4:44-51 debunking some of the myths about spalted wood being more dangerous than just wood. The author is Sara Robinson & her work can be found at s robinson | Michigan Technological University - Academia.edu (http://mtu.academia.edu/serirobinson)

If you are an AAW member her two American Woodturner articles can be found in August 2011 issue, pages 44-51, and December 2010, pages 22-28.

This is a link to her articles in Fine Woodworking if you are interested.
Spalt Your Own Lumber: Health problems associated with spalted wood, and debunking myths - Fine Woodworking (http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/12583/spalt-your-own-lumber-health-problems-associated-with-spalted-wood-and-debunking-myths)

Spalt Your Own Lumber - Fine Woodworking Article (http://www.finewoodworking.com/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesArticle.aspx?id=32484)

[Pilchard]

Cheers guys, plenty of reading material in the above posts. I have most personal safety gear covered and a dust extractor, but in light of spending an evening in the ER recently I will be investing in a full face shield. Was ripping some cypress pine outside and a rogue strong gust of wind came up and I copped a face full of dust that worked its way under or over the glasses. Outcome was ok with just a scratched cornea but the reaction I had from it was pretty bad, nausea and headache. Localized swelling from my nose to my ear and a runny nose like a dripping tap.

Cheers

[BobL]

. . .The OH & S People have declared that all wood dust is carcinogenic (i.e cancer causing)

I know this is a fine point but OHS people couldn't tell a pimple from a wart.

Wood dust was declared a "known human carcinogenic" by the U.S. Department of Health and Human ServicesPublic Health Service National Toxicology Program in 2002.

I think we should be more concerned about it's long term carcinogenic effect than it's allergic effect (which I still think is important).

[rsser]

The US prof'l body of occupational hygienists in 1996 declared wood dust to be on a par with asbestos fibres as a carcinogen.

MT, thanks for that ref. My point used fungal mould as an example but there are other pathogens that can appear in wood. A leading US turner nearly died of one a few years ago.

Jim, yes reactions can be idiosyncratic. Increasing sensitivity due to repeated exposure is hard to predict but once acquired seems difficult to reverse.

[hughie]

MT, thanks for that ref. My point used fungal mould as an example but there are other pathogens that can appear in wood. A leading US turner nearly died of one a few years ago.

J


... and a couple more this year and I hear Dave Peebles is fighting cancer as well.

[BobL]

The US prof'l body of occupational hygienists in 1996 declared wood dust to be on a par with asbestos fibres as a carcinogen.

I also hear this from our OHS people but it would be really useful if they checked a few facts.
The comparison between wood dust and mesothelioma MAY be correct for the US which has relatively low rates of meso (14 deaths per million deaths attributed to meso) whereas it is about 4000/million deaths for Australia. If 4000/million were dying from woodworking, DIY woodworking would be put in the same category as DIY asbestos removal.

From the 2011 Report on Cancer

the overallepidemiological evidence is not strong enough or consistent enough to allow firm conclusions to be drawn about the role of wood-dustexposure in the development of cancer at tissue sites other than the nasal cavity
For wood workers (not the whole population) the rate of Nasal Cancer is 45/million and is well above the rest of the population but 100 less likely that death from meso in Oz.

In a study of 10,000 professional wood workers it was found they had same overall overall death rates as the rest of the population. Given they had higher rates from nasal cancer this also meant they had lower rates from other causes, so in choosing woodwork as a hobby you are in some sense choosing how you die. But it does not have to be this way, some very simple precautions such as putting DCs outside sheds could reduce the nasal cancer death rate to that of the general population.

And as I keep posting in the dust forum the greatest risk posed by any wood worker is just driving/riding in a motor vehicle.

[rsser]

In a study of 10,000 professional wood workers it was found they had same overall overall death rates as the rest of the population

I'm not sure that's a helpful benchmark given the increasing rates of premature/preventable deaths in the population as a whole due to overweight/obesity, stress, cardiac disease etc.

...

It's a while since I did a trot through the lit. but there were diffs between Euro and US retrospective studies; and pharyngeal cancer also occurred at higher rates among woodies in some studies.

[BobL]

I'm not sure that's a helpful benchmark given the increasing rates of premature/preventable deaths in the population as a whole due to overweight/obesity, stress, cardiac disease etc.

...

It's a while since I did a trot through the lit. but there were diffs between Euro and US retrospective studies; and pharyngeal cancer also occurred at higher rates among woodies in some studies.

Yep - it's definitely a very complicated picture and very difficult to untangle other environmental factors. The Report on Cancer (ROC) is an important reference because is performs meta-studies (studies of studies) and then makes an overall call.

Again from the ROC.

Other types of nasal cancer (squamous-cell carcinoma of the nasal cavity) and cancer at other tissue sites, including cancer of the nasopharynx and larynx and Hodgkin’s disease, have been associated with exposure to wood dust in several epidemiological studies. However, these associations were not found in all studies.

At the time that study on professional woodworkers was undertaken (1984) the professional woodworkers had higher smoking rate than the rest of the population so they had to allow for this. Another finding was that woodworking smokers had higher lung cancer rates than regular smokers suggesting some nasty interaction between wood dust and cigarette smoke.

[Drillit]

Hello Pilchard,
Further to my earlier post. I simply add - why take the risk. You can get face masks of all types, some quite expensive.
I am using a 'dust be gone' mask from jim Carroll's and it does NOT cause any fogging of glasses. I also recommend viewing
's videos on Utube, very instructive about safety and other lathe things. (ozwoodhunter 1). A must see for everyone,
particularly learners. Drillit.

[BobL]

Hello Pilchard,
Further to my earlier post. I simply add - why take the risk. You can get face masks of all types, some quite expensive.
I am using a 'dust be gone' mask from jim Carroll's and it does NOT cause any fogging of glasses. I also recommend viewing
's videos on Utube, very instructive about safety and other lathe things. (ozwoodhunter 1). A must see for everyone,
particularly learners. Drillit.

Those types of dust masks do nothing for eye/skin allergies.

Also if a wearer hangs around in the same clothes they were making dust in and does not take a shower, the dust that covers their clothes, skin, hair, will be continually fluffed out by even the smallest body movements and it is funnelled upwards (the warm human body acts like a chimney) into the area around mouth and nose. While they are better than nothing, a dust mask should be used as additional protection to using a high volume DC than vents outside the shed and plenty of ventilation.

[rsser]

Another finding was that woodworking smokers had higher lung cancer rates than regular smokers suggesting some nasty interaction between wood dust and cigarette smoke. Yep; smoking increases the carcinogenic effect of asbestos fibres too.

One of the limitations of the studies is that they aim to find correlations between a toxin/allergen and health outcomes. When they do, the findings apply to groups or populations, not individuals. At best we can conclude that there are risk factors for individuals, not causes. Some individuals suffer ill-effects eg. from asbestos fibre inhalation; others don't, and we don't know why there's this difference. And at another level, there's an av. delay of something like 25-30 years before any ill-effects of asbestos fibres become evident, asbestos use was not banned til 2003, so we don't know what the real level of risk due to exposure is yet. It can be assumed that the same applies to wood dust when lodged in the airways or lungs.