Sanding

[Bruce White]

Is there a better way than standard cloth backed sandpaper? I seem to use an inordinately large amount (generally start around 240 grit and run up to 1000) and whilst I am sure that I could be a little more economical, it is a large portion of my turning expense. I have vague memories of someone mentioning a microdot product - I assume more expensive but maybe longevity and results make it worthwhile. Suggestions gratefully received.
Rgds,
Bruce

[wheelinround]

This would depend on which cloth backed type your using. I use anti-clog cloth backed and it last for some time unless I am wet/brunish oil sanding.

[joeyjons]

I was always told to "use it" like somebody else paid for it. I'm not sure how much your using but I know I go through a lot

[Bruce White]

I was always told to "use it" like somebody else paid for it. I'm not sure how much your using but I know I go through a lot

I think that is my problem - use it like someome else pays for it. I probably bin it before I should. Anti clog seems to be the way Wheelinaround.

[Mobyturns]

You are probably thinking of Astradot - http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/astra-dot-sand-paper-138292/

[Bruce White]

You are probably thinking of Astradot - http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/astra-dot-sand-paper-138292/

That's it - Thanks Mobyturns. I'll have a look at it but it seems to be the goods if I can get it for the right price.

[TTIT]

Is there a better way than standard cloth backed sandpaper? I seem to use an inordinately large amount (generally start around 240 grit and run up to 1000) and whilst I am sure that I could be a little more economical, it is a large portion of my turning expense. ............................. Suggestions gratefully received.
Rgds,
BruceI had the same experience with all the cloth backed papers I tried including the 'popular' varieties. After trying so many and wasting a bit of money in the process, I ended up going back to my beloved 'RhynoWet Redline'. It's a wet-or-dry so it's also great on oily timbers too but I mainly use it because the quality is very consistent and it just keeps on cutting so much longer :2tsup:

[hughie]

I had the same experience with all the cloth backed papers I tried including the 'popular' varieties. After trying so many and wasting a bit of money in the process, I ended up going back to my beloved 'RhynoWet Redline'. It's a wet-or-dry so it's also great on oily timbers too but I mainly use it because the quality is very consistent and it just keeps on cutting so much longer :2tsup:


Here you go Lynfurn Australia | Coated Abrasive Specialists | Supplier Of Indasa (http://www.indasa.com.au/automotive_flexible_abrasives.html) :2tsup:

Had forgotten all about this Vern, must chase them up and give it a go.

[Dalboy]

Not sure if you can get this but I find it last quite well on my turning work

Buy Mirka Abranet Abrasive Sheets 70 x 125mm from Axminster, fast delivery for the UK (http://www.axminster.co.uk/mirka-abranet-abrasive-sheets-70-x-125mm-prod851873/)

[dr4g0nfly]

I tend to use a quality decorators paper backed sandpaper (10m rolls available from decorator supplies shops at reasonable cost) down to about 240 then switch to the material backed papers or Velcro backed.

[Mobyturns]

I use all sorts but prefer Hermes, Astradot, Sia & Rhino & even Norton Wet & Dry abrasives. All have different benefits, pluses & minuses. I like Hermes J flex for general work on larger spindles & bowls; Astradot Velcro discs on passive sanders on bowls etc & for particularly oily timbers like New Guinea Rosewood & as strips on sanding sticks etc; Rhino & Sia (1993 ?) paper backed abrasive as small (25mm x 25mm) squares for small finial work & my tops. I prefer to concentrate on off the tool finish to minimise & to even eliminate sanding in some instances.

I would stay away from “cheap” abrasives and some of the packaged strips of unknown origin. Like all things you only get the performance & quality you are prepared to pay for.

[Bruce White]

You have confirmed my suspicions Mobyturn ( and by his "like") - like most things in life, it is worth paying a little more for quality. I will order some of each from one of our forum sponsors and make some comparisons. Thanks.

[Paul39]

I would stay away from “cheap” abrasives and some of the packaged strips of unknown origin. Like all things you only get the performance & quality you are prepared to pay for.

The tragedy of cheap papers is sometimes one of the finer grits will have a big chunk or two stuck in it.

Then you have the beautiful smooth slick bowl with a rut or two running around and around.:weeping2::weeping2::weeping2:

[NeilS]

A while back I took a few different abrasive disks, the sort with velcro backing, for a test run (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/took-few-sanding-abrasives-test-run-132081/). Not exactly what you are asking about, Bruce, but there may be something of value there that you can transfer to your question about cloth backed abrasives.

[rsser]

Bruce, you say you're using a lot. And yes, that can be a consequence of using poor abrasives, but also of other things.

Can you give us more context?

[Bruce White]

Neil, I bought a passive sander and disks when I first started but decided ( probably as I was inefficient in using them and that I did not cut my own disks) that it was a more expensive option and gave no better finish than hand held paper. Probably should give it another go.

Rsser, I use the colour coded, cloth backed stuff from Carbatec (ordering my next lot from site sponsor Sandpaper Man - considerable saving there!). Now that I am more proficient with the tools, I generally start in the 250/400 grit range and work my way up to 1000. Some of the harder woods we have out here - black morrel, gimlet, mallee, white gum etc are hard on both tool edges and paper.I cut the paper into approx 8x8 squares and use 1 to 2 pieces per grit per bowl/item. I slap the paper on the lathe as it clogs and bin it when it will not clear much. I also have a feeling - probably erroneous - that in using it to full clog a couple of times changes the grit through wear and that even if I did manage to clear it again it would not be efficient in the sanding steps if re-used.

Maybe I am expecting too much from the paper!

Rgds,
Bruce

[NeilS]

Neil, I bought a passive sander and disks when I first started but decided ( probably as I was inefficient in using them and that I did not cut my own disks) that it was a more expensive option and gave no better finish than hand held paper. Probably should give it another go.



Some people love 'passive sanders' while others prefer using the disks (or discs) under power. I fit into the latter group.

I normally get at least a couple of 12" bowls out of each grit before discarding, even on reasonably hard woods, and more on low silica soft woods. But, I do use quality abrasives, high speeds and low pressure.

[Mobyturns]

.... I slap the paper on the lathe as it clogs and bin it when it will not clear much. I also have a feeling - probably erroneous - that in using it to full clog a couple of times changes the grit through wear and that even if I did manage to clear it again it would not be efficient in the sanding steps if re-used.

Maybe I am expecting too much from the paper! Rgds, Bruce

Give the Astradot a go. With the open grit it doesnt seem to clog as much, but you still have to keep the paper moving. Most turners make the mistake of holding the paper in one spot on the paper and move it across the bowl, rather than moving both. Thats why I like passive sanders on the few bowls I do.

[rsser]

"Changing the grit through wear" - don't think it works like this. Abrasive particles edges just blunt. Though with Alox and esp. Alox seeded gel there may be some fracturing to provide a fresh edge.

Like Neil, with power sanding I'm getting better life than you are roughly adjusted for abrasive area. I'd expect to get at least one bowl out of a quality 50mm diam. disc.

[Jonzjob]

I'll go with TTIT and the Lynfurn Australia | Coated Abrasive Specialists | Supplier Of Indasa (http://www.indasa.com.au/rynogrip_plusline.html) I have had that from the U.K. and am about to order some more. Really good kit. I was reluctant to get it at first because a fair amount of my sanding is done with my Carroll sanding drums and I wasn't sure the velcro fluffy backed abrasive would fit, but it does and it is dammed good!

I am glad of this thread because it caused me to look back at my links to get more :D

[vk4]

As has been pointed out, different brands have different properties, and wear rates.

The better brands, hermes,SIA,MIRKA,will hhave a better life than the cheap asian products.

The better off the tool finish you can achieve, the less sanding you will need to do, you must also not jump too many grits when sanding. I would suggest that jumping 1 grit is the most you should jump when sanding.

I normally would start at 120 or 180 Grit and go to 3220/400grit then burnish, and finish with shellac and wax.

brand and grits you will have to sort out yourself, but paper back is not advisable expect in finer grits, and open coat in JJ cloth is best in cloth backed material to 400 grit.


Jeff
vk4

[Bruce White]

AHAA! Just had a look at the Lyndfurn website re TTITs Rhynowet redline. Seems I am missing a few grits. I thought I had all the grit steps. I have - because that is what they have on the shelf at Carbatec and I bought the lot in bulk - 120, 180,240,320,400,600,800 & 1000. Seems I am missing 150,220,280,360,500. SO WHO FEELS LIKE A GOOSE NOW?

[rsser]

No need to feel like a goose Bruce!

Looking at your range I'd say the only significant gap in particle size terms you had was the #150.

That said, with power sanding it's only been with a few soft woods that I've added that to the climb.

[Bruce White]

I can see that I am going to have to try power sanding - the passive sander did not impress me too much. Good old hand sanding - even though I am missing grits still gives me a lovely finish. I was asked - after I had my first stall at the local markets recently - to put some of my work in the local tourist centre. Shortly after doing that I had a call from a fellow who runs an art gallery asking if I would like to exhibit some of my "artwork" there! Most gratifying!
And now I can tell my Kids I am an ARTIST!

[rsser]

Cool. Nice feedback.

...

I used to start with hand sanding inside bowls, using garnet paper. Worked well enough; from those coarse grits I went to a powered pad for finer finishing.

Inertia sanding has never impressed me. I find it too slow ... but many turners like it.

Power sanding has its downsides ... in particular with coarse grits it's cutting, not finishing; you can loose detail, you can create rippling with wide-spaced grain or even sand through the bottom of a recess-mounted bowl.

[Mobyturns]

Inertia sanding has never impressed me. I find it too slow ... but many turners like it.

Crikey how much sanding have you got to do??? :wink:

[TTIT]

AHAA! Just had a look at the Lyndfurn website re TTITs Rhynowet redline. Seems I am missing a few grits. I thought I had all the grit steps. I have - because that is what they have on the shelf at Carbatec and I bought the lot in bulk - 120, 180,240,320,400,600,800 & 1000. Seems I am missing 150,220,280,360,500. SO WHO FEELS LIKE A GOOSE NOW?Wouldn't worry about the others Bruce - I have no problems using just 240, 320, 400, 600. 800, 1000 and 1200. Once I finished mucking about with all the other brands, I bought a lifetime supply of Redline from the US - 42 cents/sheet - couldn't argue with that - the local paint shop wants $2 a sheet :o


............Inertia sanding has never impressed me. I find it too slow ... but many turners like it............Couldn't agree more!!!:2tsup:


...........but paper back is not advisable except in finer grits,............:think: why??? :?

[Bruce White]

Thanks TTIT, now I feel less of a goose. You use the same grits/steps I do - rarely have to start below 240 now-a-days.

[Jonzjob]

Up until I couldn't put up with the noise I had my drill clamped to the lathe stand and a heavy duty flex drive with a 2" velcro arbour in it. I had thought about a flex drive for my Dremel but I didn't think it would be man enough to cope, so I bought one of these with a heavy duty hand piece. Absoloutly fantastic and quiet. The foot control is nice and easy and you can get into places that I couldn't reach with a drill

Buy Axminster Heavy Duty Flexible Drive Unit from Axminster, fast delivery for the UK (http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-heavy-duty-flexible-drive-unit-prod20091/?sessionid=cc4d84b270ade278b8b94db36e133d157a1b596b)

It's used for other jobs too where fine cutting and drilling are needed. A bit expensive? May be, but so much better with either trying to control a hand drill or the noise. You want fast, it's got fast. Slow?, yes that too..

[rsser]

Crikey how much sanding have you got to do??? :wink:

Negligible sanding on bowl outsides these days.

Insides? Sometimes I've left a gouge track too near the rim to take out with a scraper due to bowl flex or the piece having gone out of true at the end of the tool work.

[NeilS]

I was asked - after I had my first stall at the local markets recently - to put some of my work in the local tourist centre. Shortly after doing that I had a call from a fellow who runs an art gallery asking if I would like to exhibit some of my "artwork" there! Most gratifying!


...:2tsup:

Bruce, on the grit range, I have most of them but rarely use all of them on a piece. It depends somewhat on which grit I start with; the increments calibrate from there. I find the rule-of-thumb of the next grit size increasing no more than half the previous grit size useful, although I don't follow it slavishly.

[Paul39]

I have found it is possible to start with too fine a grit. If starting at 240 gives you nice sheen on part and some scratches in areas, you can get them out by using 240 forever and two days, and many clogged sheets.

Or go down to 120 & get the trenches sanded out then go to 180 & 240.

[rsser]

One tip for getting out a small patch of tear-out on a bowl inside: either just hand sand it with the lathe stopped, running up through the grits, or use a 30mm power sanding pad just stoking the patch gently and blending it in with the rest. Use the index lock to hold the spindle.

You'll know your bowl is now not true but it takes an eagle eye to spot it.