honden lathe

[pench]

hi all my name is steve & this is my first time and i require some help, i have been offered a honden metal lathe model no 1450, year made 1982 in very good condition but theres a catch they cant find the compound slide & tool post, had a look on the net & cant seem to find any info on where to get one if at all able to or any info on the lathe, any help would be great, cheers steve.

[bollie7]

Welcome to the forum Steve.
In regards to your lathe, the Honden lathe was sold under a few different names. One of them was McMillan. I have a McMillan version but I'm not sure of the model number atm. They were also sold under the Lantaine name.
Do a search on this forum for "McMillan lathe" and/or "Lantaine lathe". I'm sure something will turn up.
In regards to the compound slide, It shouldn't be too hard to adapt one of a similar size from a different lathe (if you can get one at a good price) if you can't get an original

regards

bollie7

[Ironwood]

Hi Steve, I bought a run down Forbes lathe a while back, when I was researching for info, I found mine was a lathe that came out of a Taiwanese factory and rebadged by many different names, I seem to remember Honden being one of them.
Does it look like this one ?

249737

If you do a search here on the forum, you will find a bit of info about them.

Here is a link to my rebuild thread,,, http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/forbes-lathe-rebuild-wip-136357/

[Ueee]

Hi Steve, Welcome.
I looked at buying a "Lam" badged version a while back, they came in 2 sizes, 10x24 and 12x26 or something like that. I did find full drawings for it somewhere on the net....here it is that was too easy to find...www.metalillness.com :: View topic - Lantaine LAM-350BH Lathe Manual Online (http://bbssystem.com/viewtopic.php?t=608). Andre "welder" has a Mcmillan too, and i'm sure there is someone else on the forum with one...(other than bollie)

[pench]

hey guys thanks for replies went and took some pictures today lathe has been in storage for years hence all the dust & grime, located some parts in cabinet, taper turning attatchment & parts of compound slide 3&4 jaw also, this is a big lathe to me must be 1.5 mtrs + in overall length price will be $300- $500 but if cant sort parts may not be worth it, as u might have guessed im not a machinist but have some experience and am wanting a new toy for my retirement, might be better off buying a new one been looking at the al336 , or 960b from hare & forbes but the price scares me, I think refurbishing a machine would be a great learing curve, any more help from photos appreciated steve.

[Michael G]

Not sure whether to advise anything here. A tool post is no problem as aftermarket quick change tool posts (QCTP) are readily available and a far better option in my option than a standard 4 way post.
It looks like you have the compound side screw there and so are just missing the slide parts, jib and nut. If you have access to a mill these can all be made and would revive a lathe that is probably worth using. I have seen some people even not worry about a compound and just mount a tool post on the cross slide. More rigid but perhaps not as versatile.
As you say a great learning experience. Whether you should attempt the project really depends on you, your mechanical aptitude and whether you can get some mill time some how (either personally or get a friend to do some for you).
Personally I wouldn't be paying $300 to $400 for it though as it will cost probably that or more to fix up. Maybe half that?

Michael

[bollie7]

I'd disagree with Michael re the price. That machine is longer in the bed than mine but looks like a similar centre height.
With the taper turning attachment I reckon it would be worth the money provided its not badly worn.
As has been said you could use it without a compound slide for a while, whilst waiting for one to come up for the right price. I don't think it would be hard to adapt one off a different brand of lathe. Its only held on by two Tee slot bolts.

I can only go by my experience with mine but I think its not a bad machine for what it is. It would be nice if the tailstock (on mine) was a no 3 morse rather than a no 2 though, as I have a lot of drills that have a no 3 morse on them which I can't use (atm). A project I have been thinking about for the future is to try and get a tailstock off something else with a No 3 morse that I can adapt to mine. I don't think there is enough "meat" in the current quil to enlarge it.
regards
bollie7

[morrisman]

Well, not quite. But if you can purchase that machine for $300-500, you have got yourself a bargain I reckon . The stand is a bonus , it appears to be a solid stand .

If you go through the Ebay sales, you won't find many lathes under $500, well, very few if any . Even for complete junk heaps , people are asking more than $500 .

And seeing it's local to you ( In Hobart ?) , it is not a hassle to transport it that short distance . H&F would charge you :boat: for the freighting of a new lathe across Bass strait .

My 2 bobs worth ..Mike

[Ironwood]

I would pay $400 for that any day. The cabinet would be nearly worth that.
Though I reckon it wont be too easy getting the parts you will need, but as others have already said, you can get by until you come up with something.

A bit of work refurbishing, and you will have a good machine there.

[pench]

hi all thanks heaps for your help, will wait on final price & then make a choice of old or new, cheers.

[Stustoys]

Hi Steve,
Welcome
Just to be different I cant make up my mind how good a buy it is yet.
You'd likely know more about whats around in your area.
Are there any chucks about?
While you can get by without a compound, getting by without a chuck would likely drive you batty in no time. So you'll need to add say $400 for 3 and 4 jaw chucks.

Guessing at a 160mm 3 jaw and a 200mm 4 jaw new from H&F, they would cost you $511+$60 delivery.

Stuart

[Ueee]

I Agree with Mike, it is a good buy (but it certainly ain't taking the buy of the year crown :D) BUT only if it has chucks, a faceplate and everything works. It should be a better lathe than the lower end H&F models, and are common enough that getting dimensions etc for making a new slide will be easy. The one i looked at was in good nick with 2 chucks and cutting tools, it went for $1800, and a Mcmillan just sold on ebay for $1800.
Have a look around, but i would guess the range on your side of the strait would be limited. Good luck!

[Michael G]

Bollie, have a think about getting one of these for your lathe -
MT3 to MT2 Morse Taper Adapter Drill Sleeve No. 3 to No. 2 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MT3-to-MT2-Morse-Taper-Adapter-Drill-Sleeve-No-3-to-No-2-/281000707962?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item416cf2877a)

Yes, I know I'm being mean on price but a few hundred each for a 3 jaw, 4 jaw and tool post and it adds up. I had a lot of trouble selling my old lathe for $1500 and that had 3 jaw, 4 jaw, face plate, QCTP with 8 holders and stand. While lots of things are listed on ebay, sellers usually want more for things than they are worth (excluding present company of course) and buyers want to pay less. If that lathe were listed on ebay for say $400 it might sell, but there would also be a lot of people who would look at it and decide that they could get something more complete for a lot less than it would take to bring that one up to good condition. That's not to say that it wouldn't make a good project or that it couldn't be used without a compound.

My 2c

Michael

[welder]

I Would buy It for $400 any day :2tsup:

It is the Bigger version of my lathe I paid $1600 for it.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ecUlYn3XV1s/UHEsDSM7r-I/AAAAAAAAAuI/uNK3SE2Chdk/s640/PA070050.JPG

[bwal74]

HI,

I'm on the yea side. I think you side you found some chucks to go with it, if you can find the steadies it would be a pretty good buy even the way its is.

Ben.

[Bryan]

I have a Lantaine in 10 x 24, so I notice these when they pop up. I've never seen one that long, never seen one with taper, never seen a stand that good. You can do a lot of turning and learning without a compound, but you will need to make a mounting block for a toolpost. You have a taper attachment for longer tapers and tool angle will do small chamfers. There's a range in between that would be awkward - like 60 degree included centres (can you do that on a TT?).

I would say buy it, IF the bed ways are ok. You can fix a lot of things, but worn out ways are difficult, time consuming, expensive - pick any 3. A little wear should be expected and is ok, a lot of wear makes the machine useless. Look for a wear ridge along the bottom edge of the front way, up near the chuck. That's where most wear occurs. Use feeler gauges to try and get a sense of how high that ridge is. Opinions will vary on this but I'll say two or three thou is fine, ten or more is not. In between is a grey zone.

Edit: Also make sure the power feed works. The worm drive in the apron can go and parts are unavailable.

[toolman49]

G"Day Steve,
I'm another happy 12 x 36 Honden owner, at the moment there is a thread on broken compound slides running on Practical Machinist (Making a replacement compound slide (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/making-replacement-compound-slide-258515/)), one post shows photos of a spacer block to replace the compound. I can only agree with other posters remarks about the practicability of this lathe as a repair project, you may well end up with reasonably cheap lathe with a bit of work (I would kill for the stand and taper turning attachment).
Being a suspicious old bugger I'm wondering why the compound was dismantled, was it broken in a massive crash ?, if so was anything else damaged ?. I personally would be inclined to run a dial indicator over the spindle before purchasing. If you decide to go ahead let me know if need photos, measurements or a manual, I will forward them.
Regards,
Martin

[Stustoys]

Couple more things.
1. is that a camloc spindle?(I wouldnt have thought so but it sure looks like one)That would be a plus, though the cost of your chucks just went up if it is.
2. is the "gap bed" there anyhere? Not a show stopper if you plan on doing large work but not good if you plan on getting a collet chuck and doing small work close to the spindle (now I guess you could make one of those as well... that will keep you out of trouble for awhile ;) )

Stuart

[krisfarm]

Hi Stuart,
Am I misreading pench"s post 5 or did you miss it, because it looks to me that he found the three and four jaw chucks and some other items for this lathe.
Bob

[Stustoys]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for that, seems I am going blind. In my defence I did search the page for "chuck" before I posted.
Sorry guys.

Stuart

[toolman49]

G'Day Stuart,
Well spotted Sir, just checked my manual, the LC in the model designation refers to a D1-4 camloc spindle, a few other differences are 40" between centres, swing over bed 13", tailstock is M.T. 3, weight is 320Kg compared to 300Kg for the 12 x 36. I have never seen one in Oz before (not that that means much).
Regards,
Martin

[Ueee]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for that, seems I am going blind. In my defence I did search the page for "chuck" before I posted.
Sorry guys.

Stuart

Your not the only one, i missed it too.....with a D1-4 and chucks i would go for it.

[pench]

hey guys the lathe does come with 3 & 4 jaw chucks & steadys + 2 differant size face plates the only parts missing are compound slide parts, my farther in law is a machinist & has a lathe & mill & is a very cleaver man he might be able to help me, have not spoke to him yet, hobart is hopeless for buying lathes etc we only a small city engineering shops here stock bugger all & second hand lathes are very rare, are still thinking of buying new might be less hassels but witch one, al336, 960b from h/f or the toolex cq6230a whitch gets a good rap here, dont think we have supplier for toolex in hobart does anyone know of a toolex dealer, thanks for all replies & help steve.

[Dave J]

If you want to get a Toolex lathe, contact Newcastle Gasweld as this is the main branch and ask for Steve. He might be able to have one shipped to you from a store closer.

I have had mine just one 10 years and have no complaints, they still sell the same lathe and the people I have arranged them for over the years are happy with them.

On the other hand that lathe looks OK, see what you can do to get a compound, maybe adapt one off a H&F model?

Dave

[Michael G]

My thoughts are now if you have the chucks and a father-in-law that could help out with making up replacement parts then go for it.

Michael

[PDW]

Personally I'd buy it for the price. If you decide not to, drop me a line. If you'd like me to take a look at it, drop me a line as well. I have to go to Hobart sometime this week anyway - more boat bits needed.

I do have a quite elderly Hercus lathe that's totally surplus to my requirements and just taking up space. It is complete but needs a good clean and overhaul. Haven't thought too much on getting rid of it yet, but OTOH I most certainly don't need it either. So, depends on what you'd like to do.

Buying a new lathe is a good option IMO if you have the cash and are going to get a good machine. Fooling around with old lathes is for people with more time than money. 4 out of 5 of my lathes are old, FWIW, one of them *very* old....

PDW


hey guys the lathe does come with 3 & 4 jaw chucks & steadys + 2 differant size face plates the only parts missing are compound slide parts, my farther in law is a machinist & has a lathe & mill & is a very cleaver man he might be able to help me, have not spoke to him yet, hobart is hopeless for buying lathes etc we only a small city engineering shops here stock bugger all & second hand lathes are very rare, are still thinking of buying new might be less hassels but witch one, al336, 960b from h/f or the toolex cq6230a whitch gets a good rap here, dont think we have supplier for toolex in hobart does anyone know of a toolex dealer, thanks for all replies & help steve.

[pench]

hi all im back & im still waiting on a price for the honden or should i say sick of waiting but some people just take there time, the only good news is i now have the history of the lathe (some progress) i suppose, was purchased in 1989 for the tug boat operators as there were times they needed to repair or make parts for the tugs but there was allways a #### fight over who or what job had priority using the other lathe so the owner purchased the honden for the tug boat guys & was only used rarely, good to know its had bugger all use, now to the top slide it was removed to machine an engine on a ferry, was easier to rig up top slide in ferry and machine with the engine turning than to remove the engine, from there on its a mystery as to why slide was taken apart & where parts are. parts & operators manuals found in office so thats good,lets move on, to PDW did not see your post mate hence no reply many thanks for your offer, are u a tassie boy or do u just visit occasionally. some more help please have been talking to applied machinery in dandenong vic and they have a machtech turner 310x910 lathe with stand,work light,foot brake & coolant pump for $3150 can ship it here via toll for $285 i think thats fair deal, lathe looks same as al335 from h&f question is does any one know if machtech are a better finish than h&f gear, if i dont get price on the honden next week will buy new machine, have turned into a impatient old bugger so my son says lol, many thanks to all,steve. PS hope this was not too boring.


better finish

[Stustoys]

Hi,
I have a machtech turner 310x1000(though its more like 1100). At the time I was looking the only difference I could find between it and the AL-335 was it was over spec length wise and the H&F was "at best" on size. But this was years ago, things may have changed.
Could be made in the same factory..... could both be copies of something else. No idea how to tell.



Stuart

[PDW]

PDW did not see your post mate hence no reply many thanks for your offer, are u a tassie boy or do u just visit occasionally.

Refugee from the big island really. I spend most of the year here, I'm down near Kettering.

Sort of retired so I do as I please. That mainly involves building a steel boat at the moment. Amazing just how often a lathe & mill come in handy. I was turning 316 and milling keyways for my steering gear today.

The freight on that lathe doesn't sound too bad. I've used Toll and Tasfreight. Had good results with both. Sometimes I just drive over and get stuff myself if I'm going to Sydney anyway.

Missing top slide on the Honden isn't the end of the world if the price is right. I think I've got a spare top slide somewhere. Not for that lathe of course but you can bodge a lot of things if you have to.

PDW

[pench]

hi stuart, they probably are made in the same factory mate guess i wont know the quality of finish untill its in my shed. hi pdw im the same as u mate i have retired early due to no work in my industry here & lovin it nice to wake up & venture into shed & play all day, i have been waiting for a price on the honden since mid december, far too long i think, not to fussed about top slide now i now something can be adapted if i do get honden would it be ok to contact u, lathe is coming from sabre marine u may know of them, via a friend who works there but i cant wait forever so next week i will order the new machine if i dont have a price, i migrated here from vic in 1980 mate.

[PDW]

hi pdw im the same as u mate i have retired early due to no work in my industry here & lovin it nice to wake up & venture into shed & play all day, i have been waiting for a price on the honden since mid december, far too long i think, not to fussed about top slide now i now something can be adapted if i do get honden would it be ok to contact u

Yeah, send me a private message via this forum if anything happens. If you don't want it I might, I so need another lathe. Mainly interested in the taper attachment, truth be told, but a D1-4 spindle would be useful and I'd move another machine out the door.

I'm in Hobart at least once a week - just got back from Derwent Park in fact, buying more stuff for the boat.

If you buy a new lathe budget a few hundred dollars for tooling - as a start. People here can give you a (long) list. Engineering Supplies in Derwent Park is pretty good but - as usual - Ebay is generally cheaper. I try to support the local guys if I can, though, otherwise they won't be there when I really need them.

PDW

[pench]

Hi all finally back to the computer with an update on the honden, was purchased two weeks ago for $300.00 with top slide & toolpost witch they found in one of there storage containers,how lucky was i, lathe has been cleaned,oiled & had a test run & everything works well, still some minor things to do & will then look at moving it to its final resting place in shed where setup & measurements will be done, will post some pics real soon, steve.

[toolman49]

G'Day Steve,
At $300 I think this qualifies as a major tool gloat and the mandatory "you suck".


:D


Regards,
Martin

[pench]

good one martin, very happy so far mate :U:U:U.

[toolman49]

Hi Steve,
Forgot to say if you need a manual, PM me and I'll send you one,
Cheers,
Martin

[pench]

Hi all here are some photos of the toy in its new home & some shots of the jocky wheel system i made for moving lathe into position, have yet to install jacking bolts to bracket at tail stock end for leveling purposes as lathe is level where is.



263614263617263615263616

[nearnexus]

Wow, that's a seriously awesome buy.

You did very well.

Nice lathe. I'd be happy with that.

Rob

[Dave J]

That came up nice, good to see it somewhere thats it's going to be looked after.

Dave

[bollie7]

Pench
What size taper is in the tailstock on your lathe? Great buy by the way. Yours looks like a larger version of my McMillan. I wish mine had a camlock spindle like yours.:cry3:
Hope you have lots of fun with it.
bollie7

[pench]

bollie7, its mt3 mate, very happy so far there are things i like & dont like but am getting used to slowly, tooling is my next issue, steve.

[Dave J]

I was looking again at the photos and you scored well along with it having a long bed, T slot cross slide, movable compound etc. The price is what I just paid for a taper attachment and you got one of them as well, great score.

Dave

[bollie7]

bollie7, its mt3 mate, very happy so far there are things i like & dont like but am getting used to slowly, tooling is my next issue, steve.

Mine is only a no 2 which is a bit of a pain. But I'm grateful that I have it.
bollie7

[toolman49]

G'Day Fellas,
I don't know when they changed it from MT2 to MT3, my 1991 build Honden has a 3MT tailstock bore.
Regards,
Martin

[welder]

My McMillan lathe was made in 1987 and has a 2 MT tailstock. I just wish it had a camlock spindle instead of a weird 2" x 8 tpi thread :~:~

[bollie7]

G'Day Fellas,
I don't know when they changed it from MT2 to MT3, my 1991 build Honden has a 3MT tailstock bore.
Regards,
Martin

Martin, when you get a chance, certainly not urgent, could you measure the OD of the tailstock ram on your McMillan for me please? Caliper size would be good enough. I'm interested to find out how it compares to mine. (which I haven't measured yet)
thanks in advance
bollie7

[toolman49]

G'Day Bollie,
Tailstock ram is 40 mm dia,
Regards,
Martin

[bollie7]

G'Day Bollie,
Tailstock ram is 40 mm dia,
Regards,
Martin

Thanks mate. I'll try and remember to check mine tonight. I might be able to bore it out. That would be good.
bollie7

[welder]

Dam guys now you have me thinking about a new project a 3 mt tail stock, hopefully my mc Milan has the same size barrel I think it does from memory haven't checked though :rolleyes:

[toolman49]

G'Day Fellas,
The spec sheet shows both the MT2 and MT3 tailstock having 40mm diameter, so maybe it is possible to bore/ream the MT2 out to MT3.
Regards,
Martin263785

[PDW]

G'Day Fellas,
The spec sheet shows both the MT2 and MT3 tailstock having 40mm diameter, so maybe it is possible to bore/ream the MT2 out to MT3.
Regards,
Martin263785

I'd make a new one. Not all that difficult (I've done it) and you don't ruin anything if you fail the first time or 2.

PDW

[bollie7]

Nothing ever goes easy does it? I measured the T/S ram on my 1981 McMillan yesterday. 32mm dia. Not 40 unfortunately. grrrrr


bollie7