Choosing a Vintage Saw

[pmcgee]

Start with a word from a specialist ...

Not 100% on his skew-back remark 'though ...

Picking a Winner: How to buy a vintage handsaw…# by Matthew Cianci (http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/CiantiM/buySaw/buySaw-01.asp)

[homesy135]

You're a cruel man, Paul. Since your thread about the opinionated D.Savage's saw advice, I've been drooling over antique handsaw handle shapes - on eBay, on the Disstonian Institute site and on all the other saw related sites I can find. I really like that "lamb's tongue" feature on the handle. Matthew has some great tips for a saw novice like me.

I even find myself wondering what files to buy if I should ever want to learn how to sharpen..................................


I haven't bought a saw yet but I'm getting weaker. There are some lovely examples up for grabs.

eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181062046293?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_720wt_1173)



Paul

[pmcgee]

I think the stereotype and most well known of vintage handsaws would be the Disston D8. (images from the Disstonian website)

http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/d8page/d81930.jpg

It has a good strong handle set into the body of the blade, skew back - straight or breasted toothline - 16" to 30" long and any tooth pattern you can likely ever want. Certainly 4ppi to 10ppi ... maybe 12?

I don't know if some would have come from the factory with a progressive pitch. My first ever saw is stamped 4ppi - but has teeth running from 9ppi to 7ppi.

As with other things, the handles began as wonderfully shaped applewood handles sized for a three-finger grip - and became blockier (although not necessarily less practical) over time. And eventually plastic.

They can have different handles on larger rip-saws ... an extended hand-grip or the fantabulous thumb-hole grip.

(Ooops ... that is a #7 ... but the grip hole is the right shape :B )
http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/d8page/choicehback1.jpg http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/d8page/d8rip1880h.jpg


The exact same format of saw can be also had in the name of: CE Atkins, Simonds, George H Bishop, as well as those manufactured by or re-branded by or co-branded by Hardware companies - like CE Jennings and HIBBARD, SPENCER, & BARTLETT.

From England the same could be Spear & Jackson, Pax, Tyzack & Turner, ...

There are "2nd quality" lines that may have a "Warranted Superior" medallion. The hardware branded ones may have a company medallion - or the WS. They are still worth checking out if you have them in hand. I have for example an "Everkeen" branded saw from the John Pritzlaff Hardware Co that seems to be a very good saw.

CE Atkins also made saws medallioned with "Pheonix Warranted", "Sheffield Warranted", and "Columbia Warranted".

The marketing departments then must have been having a field day ... the major manufacturers made a bundle of 2nd, 3rd, ... quality products under other brand/model names. Take Simonds for example (http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS-saws/Simonds/pubs/1923-catalog-Al/0_img-pdf/1923-SimondsCatalog-HandSaws.pdf) ... Bay State Saw Manufacturing Co., King Philip, Mohawk, Osceola, Sioux, Iroquois, Pontiac.

Simonds closed production by 1928, but at one stage was producing more than Disston.

In 1911 Disston also had the Keystone, Browns, C Bishop, T Turner and Jackson lines.
A Jackson saw was $8 when a D8 cost $22.50.

Handsaw Makers of North America puts Disston's annual production at ...
1870 ... 150,000 pa
1880 ... 1,500,000 pa
1890 ... 1,500,000 pa
1900 ... 3,000,000 pa and peaking about 1920.

[pmcgee]

1930s ...

http://jp29.org/disston08.jpg

1940s ...

http://jp29.org/disston07.jpg

It gets worse ... (ugly handle, bad nuts, who knows what the saw plate is like ... )

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachments/what/402833d1332901933t-disston-d8-etch-disston-d8-handle.jpg

[Scribbly Gum]

You are a mine of information Paul. Thanks for posting those links.
I generally agree with the thoughts of Matthew Cianci - all good pointers to good saws.
I have never seen a skewback saw with a nib though, and readers could be forgiven for thinking that if both features are good, then a saw with both would be wonderful - or is that too much of a stretch - Haha.
Still, it was the skewback that replaced the straightback in American saw design, and nibs came on straightback saws. If nibs are good and skewbacks are good, then that only leaves straightback saws without nibs. Of these latter there are remarkably few left in the wild, I'd guess.
I have a Robert Sorby that meets all of the criteria and it should be a good saw.
It is missing one feature that would make it so - a tapered blade.
It is heavy and unwieldy. In the cut, it is a dog of a thing to use.
I have no doubt that the reason that it still has its full blade is that no one liked using it.
Still, thanks to Matthew Cianci for a simple thought provoking read.

[pmcgee]

Here are two niiiice handles ... the first is definitely applewood ... I think the second is too??... smoothed with time and use ...

252521 252522

and some other saw makers - other than Disston -

Simonds

252534 252535 252536 252533

252538

EC Atkins

252544

George H Bishop

252524 252537

Harvey Peace

252541 252550

Richardson Brothers

252539

(American) Warranted Superior (probably pre-1900 example)

252542 252543

[pmcgee]

I wrote about the Disston #7 (and D7) here: http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/handsaw-disston-no7-164684/#post1598081 and here: Disston #7 question - Saw Discussion Forums (http://www.backsaw.net/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=58&jfile=showthread.php&t=361)

It think it may currently be just about the most under-appreciated style of saw online ... of the Disstons at least.

It is a quality item, and designed to be a strong and simple worker. It only came with beech handles as I understand it, and the handles might be a little more vulnerable to damage than the set-in style of the D8s and others.

Compare these sales at Josh (hyperkitten's) website ...

A very nice, full blade 26" #7 ... 6-1/2 ppi ... $25 (teeth needed work)

http://www.hyperkitten.com/pics/tools/fs/s204_1.jpg

A nice D8, looks like maybe 24" ... 7 ppi ... $40 (maybe 26" ... cf the Atkins)

http://www.hyperkitten.com/pics/tools/fs/s205_1.jpg

An Atkins 54 26" - 8 ppi xcut - the handle is functional but not super attractive, looks like the narrower 'lightweight' design - $60.

http://www.hyperkitten.com/pics/tools/fs/s206_1.jpg

A "near-mint" panel saw D8, I'm guessing 20" or 22" - 11 ppi - $200

http://www.hyperkitten.com/pics/tools/fs/s209_1.jpg

Pick the bargain.
:D

Just like hand-planes I guess, cleaning up some rust and being undaunted by sharpening (say as a ripsaw to start with and gain confidence) can save you $$s if you are looking out for older saws.

[pmcgee]

A quick note on electrolysis for saws.

It has been mentioned online that 'hydrogen embrittlement' is a possible consideration.
I think Bobl referred us to or described information on an oven-temperature 'cure' for this possibility.

But there is an aesthetic consideration as well. I saw a handsaw a long time ago that I thought looked strange.
I have two more now the same. A dull grey matt look ... that I suspect is the result of electrolysis.
I don't know this for sure ... and it seems that they may improve with sanding ... but if you're going to end up sanding anyway ... ?
I think it might damage any etch left on the saw ... stamps on older saws and backsaws might fair much better.(?)

Here's the two I have ... I'm not sure how well you will be able to see how flat and lifeless the blades are looking at the moment.

252957 252958 252959

Any feedback on the results?
Thanks,
Paul

[pmcgee]

Start with a word from a specialist ...

Not 100% on his skew-back remark 'though ...

Picking a Winner: How to buy a vintage handsaw…# by Matthew Cianci (http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/CiantiM/buySaw/buySaw-01.asp)

Hmmm ... broken link ... now it is: Picking a Winner: How to buy a vintage handsaw… by Matthew Cianci (http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/CiantiM/art/buySaw/buySaw-01.asp)