Mini Lathe Type

[Beedeejay]

Hi Guys and Girls,
I have been doing a bit of research into getting a new small lathe, i have searched through some old threads to check on types & models that have been talked about, but i have also noticed some newer types of machines on the market that haven't really been talked about and i would like some input from everyone,

So here goes,
I will be turning mostly pens and other projects items (letter openers key rings etc) , salt & Pepper mills, and some small bowls / platters etc so ideally a 12"-300mm swing would be better suited for what I want,
I am not too concerned with resale value as I intend to keep the small Lathe once (in the distant future) I upgrade

I am not to keen on the idea about spending the extra $$$ for variable speed

- Jet seem to be popular and reliable and a good lathe,
- the Woodfast mini/midi also seems popular
- does any one have any opinions about the GPW branded machines, I seen on the website that have 2 new green versions on there, with the $375.00 one having a 12" swing and a 1hp motor and it looks like an ok lathe
- I have also seen a Lathe sold by tool specialist down in Newcastle in NSW, (also on ebay) a 3/4hp 12inch swing 450mm between centers with Variable speed for $450.00(Ebay Price)https://www.tools4tradies.com.au/WOOD-LATHES/1156-12x18-Wood-Lathe.html?redirected=1,
- then you have the cheaper options of Carbatec,

I'm sure there are even more out there but these are the main ones i can think of off the top of my head,

If you can tell me any pros and cons that would be great
I look forward to you responses,

Cheers Ben:2tsup:

[daryl1]

Certainly have a look at the GPW lathes. I believe that there are quiet a few sold on the gold coast. I have looked at them in Gary's shop at Currumbin and the look like a good machine and similar to the Jet. Buying a local machine can save a lot of problems when it comes to after sales service as well. The GPW lathes are very well prices and well made.

[tdrumnut]

Theres a lot woodfast machines out there and I think it would be fair to say that most would be happy with them. I am reasonably happy with mine but I did have to play with it a bit to get it turning truer. At the end of the day you will get what you pay for. I definately wish I had gone for variable speed as now I tend to change the speed a lot more as I become more proficient with my turning. My advise to you is spend as much as you can to get the best that you can afford and you will end up pretty happy with your purchase.

Cheers Rumnut

[gingerbeer86]

You might be able to get a good deal on a Variable speed Midi from Gregorys. They held a lot of stock and had a big sale when they lost the agency to CT. They still have stock left of some machines. In the run out sale I got a Jet Midi variable speed with the bed extension for around $600. the bed extension means I can turn table legs if needed but the rest of the machine is a nice size for turning small items. I agree with an earlier post, an electronic variable speed lathe is worth every penny. When you have the feature you will be amazed how often you change the speed when otherwise you would have "made do".

[Jim Carroll]

Save your pennies and get the variable speed.

Woodfast for just under the 1k or the rolls royce Vicmarc for just over 2K.

Nothing else worth considering.

[Mobyturns]

Another option is the midi sized Nova Comet, not a recommendation as I haven't used one but I do have its smaller sibling the Mercury (now out of manufacture)

[elderly]

In edition 70 of Australian Wood Review Richard Raffan did a review of the Woodfast M305X, Carba-Tec CT-70-1000, Jet JWL 1220VS and the Vicmarc VL150. No surprise that he rated the Vicmarc by far the best of the four. What is surprising is that he put the Woodfast at the bottom of the list. His reason being the torque problems that he had with it. I have the woodfast myself and I am very happy with it, I have not had the problems that Richard Raffan talks about.
Cheers Elderly.

[Gabriel]

I have a jet 1220, and havn't had an issue with it. Its actally be great but as everyone else has already mentioned, if budget allows get the variable speed. I didn't :doh: (as I really didn't know what I was getting myself in to) and am now kicking myself. That said, I won't worry about buying one, as like you I intend on getting a full size machine and now I know a little more I will be looking for v/s.

I havn't actually had to source after market parts or repairs yet so can't guide you with that, however now carbatec stock JET i'm guessing it shouldn't be too difficult if anything breaks down. The option of the extension bed is also appealing as although you may intend to only do a few pens/small bowls I bet once you get started you will be wanting to push the limits of everything :D.

Thats my 2 cents
Thanks
Gab

[plantagenon]

I've got the Woodfast midi for under $400 at the time and that included an extension bed and it is great. I have to continually change the belt to alter speeds. While I don't mind doing that too much and plan my work around it, a variable speed is so much better. Its the old story though - don't expect to get a Rolls Royce if you are only prepared to pay the price of a Mini.

Be careful buying new lathes for sale on Ebay as quite often the warranty is literally limited to a week or two whereas although you will pay a little extra (but ultimately not much more when you take EBay postage into account) from an established 'real life' shop in Australia you will get a warranty up to 3 years and a place to return the lathe to for service. That makes all the difference if you buy a lathe with a faulty bearing, etc.

I agree with Jim - Woodfast is very popular,reliable and great value for money but VicMarc is the Rolls Royce. Go and visit the retailers and see what deal you can get. Hares and Forbes, Vic Marc, Carbatec, Wood Fast and a host of other reputable stores that sell them should not be too far from you.

[Avery]

Save your pennies and get the variable speed.

Woodfast for just under the 1k or the rolls royce Vicmarc for just over 2K.

Nothing else worth considering.

I've always been told to ask the experts for advice. So I will.

Why Jim?

Why is the Woodfast without the speed control not worth considering?

At under $400 it is an absolute bargain - my very NOT expert, but I think worthwile opinion.

I would happily buy another one - in fact I was about to order one really soon. Convince me I need to spend another $600 when I have never seen the need for it over the past 4 years of Woodfast m305 ownwership . Then, and here is the biggy, convince me why i should spend over $2000 on the Vicmarc.

As I said, I am NOT an expert, I'm not even a very good turner, but I think I know value for money, I am willing to be convinced of my errors of judgement.

[Beedeejay]

Thanks guys,
You have given me some food for thought,
I guess I will have to add up the coin and see what I can afford!

[Jim Carroll]

The answer is more of a safety issue than the type of lathe.

One of the big advantages with variable speed on any lathe is being able to get the correct speed for the peice you are turning.

Although you have 6 speeds on the standard woodfast you will always find a time when the speed you are running at is too slow but the next step up is too fast. With the variable speed you are able to control this safely , get a better cut and a better finish of the tool.

Another advantage with the Woodfast and Vicmarc is that they use TEFC motors, Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled. These are a proper 240v motor with the fan on the outside to keep them cool. They have great torque down low.
With other DC type motors the fan is on the inside of the motor so works very hard in trying to keep the motor cool , if you run the motor on low for any prolonged time they will overheat, also slow speed no real torque especially for faceplate work.

Plus once you have used a variable speed lathe you wont want to go back to a manual drive.



I've always been told to ask the experts for advice. So I will.

Why Jim?

Why is the Woodfast without the speed control not worth considering?

At under $400 it is an absolute bargain - my very NOT expert, but I think worthwile opinion.

I would happily buy another one - in fact I was about to order one really soon. Convince me I need to spend another $600 when I have never seen the need for it over the past 4 years of Woodfast m305 ownwership . Then, and here is the biggy, convince me why i should spend over $2000 on the Vicmarc.

As I said, I am NOT an expert, I'm not even a very good turner, but I think I know value for money, I am willing to be convinced of my errors of judgement.

[brendan stemp]

I agree wholeheartedly with Jim.

The problem with convincing people of the benefits of EVS is the extra cost. But it is worth every cent and a good EVS unit is also worth it. Once you have tried EVS it's very hard to go back to changing pulleys.

There is the safety factor that Jim referred to (which is a huge consideration) and the other point he made, the exact right speed for the size and shape of the timber but also just the simple ease of use.

If the lathe was a dedicated pen turning lathe I would hesitate but if it is to be used for a number of purposes it is a matter of, as Jim said, SAVE YOUR PENNIES AND.... You won't regret it.

[Big Shed]

Another vote for EVS, both my metal lathe and my wood lathe have EVS and I wouldn't have it any other way.

As for a "dedicated pen lathe", a LOT of my work on both lathes is turning pens and I wouldn't be without EVS for these functions.

I drill the blanks at a relatively slow speed, rough out at an intermediate speed, go a bit faster for final shaping, then slower again for applying CA, bit faster for dry sanding, faster again for wet sanding with MM, flat out for polishing.

All these changes take only a second and I don't have to turn off the lathe to carry them out.

I wouldn't even entertain the idea of a lathe with manual speed changes.:no:

I don't have a mini/midi lathe either, I have a 18x47 H&F lathe wich is as smooth as, you can turn little things on a big lathe, but...............

[Avery]

A standard 6 speed Woodfast M305 is a safety hazard? I guess all things are relative , but REALLY???

Having never used a variable speed lathe, I have never found the need to have one. Changing belt speeds is not much of a task and I have never found a safety issue with it.

I guess I will rarely turn 20Kg burls om my little Woodfast , so I am unlikely to run into the problem too often.

Remember, I am not turning stuff every day and I am certainly not doing it professionally. I sometimes think that the pros. and the high volume turners and BIG STUFF turners lose sight of what it is like to be a part timer.

I remain unconvinced about the needto spend $900 , let alone $2000, as against $400 for a perfectly reliable and solid machine - even if it is a safety hazard.

The next time I walk into my local lathe retailer if I see an M305 on the floor I will stand well back.

[Jim Carroll]

Avery the majority of turners are exactly like you part timers. The professionals are certainly a minority

Some prefer to get the manual version and some like the automatic version.

As others have indicated it is always about safety no matter which version you use.

As always you try to buy the best you can with funds available.

Beedeejay asked for advice and has been given a wide range of options , at the end of the day it will be his choice which way he goes.

He does not have to fear any lathe just get comfortable with it and work safely.

[BobL]

I have a small woodfast I picked up on special in 2008 and have used it since without any safety problems.

Last year I converted it to variable speed for the price of a:
VSD ($120 delivered), a few switches ($20) a $35 1HP 3phase motor and a $18 piece of ally to cut a new pulley to suit the new/old motor.
I could have used the old pulley and sold the original motor to recover a few pennies but I wanted to keep all the old parts in the original form in case resale is a problem
So all all up under $200 to do this. Admittedly not everyone feels comfortable doing something like this but it's not that difficult.

Do I feel any safer? :rolleyes: Can't say that I do, but the variable speed sure is noice to use. :D

[plantagenon]

My first lathe was a second hand one I bought on EBay and what a disaster that was. I couldn't get the right parts for it and ended up selling it on EBay again within 2 weeks.

I got advice from the Forum and bought my Woodfast midi after I shopped around for prices. It is a manual speed change rather than the variable Woodfast only because of the price I could get it at and the fact I was just setting out in turning, having never used a lathe before and knowing nothing about woodworking or lathes. It became an issue of self-teach and seek a lot of advice from members of the Forum. I didn't have a clue was a live or a dead centre was until Neil and Fred explained it in detail and looked up the tools I needed on the internet for me and sent me the links of the best places to buy from.

Over the intervening time I have learnt a lot. If I was starting over again and had a limited budget to work with I would probably still go with the manual belt change until I decided if I really wanted to continue with wood turning. The other factor is that with a budget, a quality but cheaper lathe (only in terms of manual change over cost as opposed to variable speed cost) leaves you a bit more money to buy the extras you will need.

Having reached the stage that I am at now, I will change to a variable speed lathe as soon as the budget allows. Even with the variable speed I wouldn't go past a Woodfast or a Vic Marc lathe. To be able to alter the speed to exactly what you want is a real bonus, even though I tend to use a lathe at a higher speed than most people - personal choice.

In terms of safety, something I have learnt is that you have to be careful with the tension you put on the belt with each change over. Too much tension and you will put too much stress on the bearings and the belt and the motor will run hotter because of the extra strain. In that regard it is a bit of a pain getting the tension right but I am particular about it. As I said earlier I try to group the work to the particular speed I am using at the moment whereas with a variable speed I will be able to do one pen at a time without the delay in manual change over.

But as I also said before, buy the best quality brand lathe you can afford, even a manual Rolls Royce would be far nicer to drive than an automatic Mini. You really do get what you pay for.

Also keep in mind that the advice of the more experienced members of the Forum is invaluable as they have been though all this long before we have and they can save you a lot of time and a lot of errors and they are always willing to help us out.

[Avery]

Avery the majority of turners are exactly like you part timers. The professionals are certainly a minority

Some prefer to get the manual version and some like the automatic version.

As others have indicated it is always about safety no matter which version you use.

As always you try to buy the best you can with funds available.

Beedeejay asked for advice and has been given a wide range of options , at the end of the day it will be his choice which way he goes.

He does not have to fear any lathe just get comfortable with it and work safely.



Jim,your earlier post said that "there is nothing else worth considering" You said that it was a safety issue.

I am not an expert. I have nowhere near your experience but i will go this far.

You are wrong.

There are lots of other lathes worthy of consideration. You would not choose between a Woodfast without speed control and one with, on the basis of safety , convenience yes, ease of use , yes. Your safety issue is a real stretch. There are many brands of lathe and many retailers selling them that are all worth considering.

Beedeejay has indeed recieved a lot of advice, or maybe just opinion, but I really do think that your expert advice that nothing other than the two lathes that you recommended is worthy of consideration was simply wrong. If you believe that you are right then I would expect your website to reflect that.

[Beedeejay]

Another advantage with the Woodfast and Vicmarc is that they use TEFC motors, Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled. These are a proper 240v motor with the fan on the outside to keep them cool. They have great torque down low.
With other DC type motors the fan is on the inside of the motor so works very hard in trying to keep the motor cool , if you run the motor on low for any prolonged time they will overheat, also slow speed no real torque especially for faceplate work.

Plus once you have used a variable speed lathe you wont want to go back to a manual drive.




Hey Guys,
While I didn't start this thread to cause arguments it has been very entertaining with some very good & valid points of view,

I just have a few questions

Jim in regards to the above, taking out EVS of the equation for a moment and going to a manual belt change, what would be the requirements for a good lathe?
You mention TEFC (Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled) motors are the way to go, so if the motor has that, is it then possible that it is a good choice of lathe?
Also you mention DC types, I don't know anything about electrics but aren't the wood fast and most other Midi lathes AC motors
IF so what is the benefit of a Woodfast AC TEFC motor verses say a Jet AC TEFC or Even a Carbatec or what ever brand,

When I put the OP i might not have been clear, I know which lathes are good brands (Vicmarc obviously) but If anyone knows why the others aren't worth considering please tell me what to look for,
Just saying this is better or that is no good isn't much help as I'm trying to differentiate what actually makes a lathe a worthwhile purchase, What actually makes a Woodfast better than a JET for instance,

Back on Variable speed though, I have used lathes with Variable speed, there is 13 or 14 Vicmarcs the at the local wood turners that I go to that have it, and I agree it is great but I'm not really prepared to nor can I afford the $1000(Woodfast) to get one as i think $600 extra is a bit too much, maybe as BobL said maybe I can get someone to make it variable speed for a lot less,

I am a wood Machinist by trade so I'm am not afraid of any machine but i also know to respect them, as nearly all the machinery i was trained to use can take a limb or possibly even a life at the blink of an eye,
If you respect the Machinery and know the limitations of it, as well as the material that you are using i believe you have won half the battle,

and as far as car Comparisons go, Rolls royce & mini etc,, I drive a Holden Commodore :2tsup: (Calais) and I wouldn't have it any other way:D, still luxurious with out being pretentious, gets me where I need to go and doesn't cost me an arm and leg if any thing ever needs to be fixed,

Cheers Ben

[brendan stemp]

Perhaps anyone considering a new lathe purchase should have a/another look at the 'Omega Engineering Liquidation' thread.

There is plenty of moaning going on about another Aussie manufacturer going to the wall and the lack of support from our Julia and plenty of talk about supporting Aussie companies until it comes to the crunch when the dollars need to be spent. I guess the problem is that too many of us aren't prepared to put our money where our mouth is. The prospect of a cheap import is too alluring.

Another thought, if EVS is not being considered with this mini lathe purchase then the Vicmarc VL150 comes in at just over $1000. Yes, $600ish more than the Woodfast but the extra quality I reckon is worth it (if we are still not considering seriously the supporting of Aussie manufacturers). It is a lathe you will have for a life time and more. In particular the banjo and tool rest and beefier, the quill is smoother, the castings are cleaner and the swing bigger. All in all a much better purchase and, yes, I think worth the extra (even if we are still not considering seriously the supporting of Aussie manufacturers).

[rsser]

With the WF midi EVS you're still looking at belt changes though fewer of them? There's 4 pulleys.

From the website:

Electronic Variable Speed 400 - 950 650 - 1700 1500 - 3850 rpm

I guess a spindle turner would be hanging around mostly in the top ratio.

Added: going x-eyed. 3 ratios!