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derekcohen
21st April 2005, 05:32 PM
I have a cheap set of 8 Chinese-made chisels that I bought some years ago as a Show Special (for "one day"). I suspect that they are very ordinary and unlikely to hold an edge anywhere near a respectable turning chisel.

Last night I bought a 1" shew Ashley Isle chisel on eBay. It is carbon steel, not HSS, but for $10 (and in terrific condition) I did not think I could go wrong.

Now I have a chance of a whole set (6) of these (new-old stock, probably at around $80). Are they good, bad, indifferent? Ashley Isles (UK) have a very good reputation but should I be looking at something else, and at HSS? I really am not going to get into serious turning until I get a decent lathe, probably in a year, but still want to use half-way decent tools on the GMC.

Comments?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Cliff Rogers
21st April 2005, 09:01 PM
Derek, over there on the dark side you can say 'you get what you pay for'..... it's same over here with the FORCE. :D

HSS is higher quality than non HSS.

If it was me, knowing what I know now, I'd save the $80 they want for the set & buy 2 good HSS tools or one very good HSS tool, without handles, & make your own handles.

Rowan
21st April 2005, 09:06 PM
I went out and spent $30 on a set of 8 chisels.........was that a quake or did every turner out there just shudder at one time!! :eek: ........with the sole purpose of learning how to sharpen without ruining good chisels. ;) I have tried turning with them and its a joke how ineffective they are (very very soft metal). I was lucky enough to be given a start with 4 quality tools but would really reccommend spending the extra cash and getting quality, you will notice the difference.

derekcohen
21st April 2005, 09:31 PM
I note that Carba-tec have their "6 piece HSS woodturning tool set" on special at $89 presently (a HUGE drop from $99). Knowing that you get what you pay for (why could they sell very much more expensive chisels otherwise), just where is this set ranked in the grand scheme of things? 0 - 10 (where 0 are my Chinese doodads and 10 is ?? what - I'd like to know!). What would you rank along this continium?

Regards from Perth

Derek

macca2
21st April 2005, 09:58 PM
I started with a set of the Carbatec chinese chisels and I am glad I did. I say this because it took me most of the steel on the two gouges to learn to sharpen them properly.
I have since bought a selection of off gouges and skews as required and I don't ruin these with my learning to sharpen.

Macca

Cliff Rogers
21st April 2005, 10:39 PM
I'll grant you that the set of 8 for $30 would be good for sharpening practise & they are what I had as my first set however, I never ever used them again after I tried a real 'tool steel' tool at a Tech college woodturning course.

I don't think I wasted too much good steel learning how to sharpen, I think I wasted more by trying different profiles & changing my mind about which one I liked best.
This is where a club with members who will let you try their tools is good value. You can try a few different profiles & get a few different opinions on what works & what doesn't.

smidsy
22nd April 2005, 12:15 AM
Derek,
I have the carbatec set and would say that they are a good compromise - cheap enough to learn to sharpen on but good enough to do some very nice work.

Well worth the $89 for the set.
Cheers
Paul

bdar
22nd April 2005, 01:27 AM
Derek,
Ashley Isles has a very good range of HSS chisels, MIK in South Australia deal with Robert Sorby, Henry Taylor is another supplier of HSS chisels. As already mentioned by others, Carb-a-tec has there own HSS set of chisels. They are also carrying the Hamlet range of chisels now. P & N also have a decent range of chisels as well. HSS is the way to go. They may seem expensive at first but they do pay for themselves. I am about to replace a 13mm Sorby bowl gouge that I've had for 8 years, I like the look of the Hamlet Excalibur range. Stick with HSS and you won't go wrong.

Bdar

JackoH
22nd April 2005, 10:33 AM
What everybody has said above. ;)
I started with a second hand set of Sorby carbon steel, learned to sharpen and destroyed most of them in the process! :o
Don't buy sets. Too expensive, as after a short time you will find that you do most of your turning with only three or four chisels not necessarily included in the set. Then go and buy the best HSS you can afford. Keep away from the 'gimmicky' ones.
Buy P & N. Buy Australian!

Cliff Rogers
22nd April 2005, 02:32 PM
I have tools made by Henry Taylor, Robert Sorby, Crown, P&N & some anbranded SE Asian company.

I like to support Australian made but I like the pommy stuff best & the Crown tools are my favourite at present. They make a bowl gouge with a gullet shape like the superflute & it has a much longer flute (value for money) &, unlike the superflute, you can buy it without a handle.

Ross
23rd April 2005, 08:22 AM
Buy the $89 set it will not only teach you to sharpen but also which chisells you will need for the projects you want to do. Sets of the expensive chisels look great but in the set there will be some chisels you will never use

Then as Cliff wrote 'I like to support Australian made but I like the pommy stuff best',
my favourite is the Hamlet range.

Have fun.

Ross

JackoH
23rd April 2005, 10:07 AM
Ross. Thats what I said ,diddleye?
Is there an echo in here? :rolleyes:

derekcohen
23rd April 2005, 02:02 PM
Well I went to Carba-tec this Saturday morning (sorry to miss you Joe). My plan was to buy just one chisel at at a time, a decent one, and buy as the need developed. My target - a Hamlet roughing out gouge (since my cheapie set did not come with one and I planned to turn chisel handles from Jarrah scraps). However, once at the store, I was really taken aback at the price - $155! So I looked at the $89 6-piece HSS set on special. To say that there was no comparison in quality with my $30 set is the world's understatement. I was really very impressed (yes, I know that the Hamlets are M2 steel and Rosewood handles ...) but they really are what I need (and can afford) at this time (this set still costs more than my lathe!). Included in the set is the roughing out gouge I went to purchase.

I still plan to buy Hamlets in the future, but the urgency is not the same now, and this set will give me a better understanding of the chisels I actually need (says I, desparately trying to avoid another dizzy slippery slope!).

Incidentally, what chisels would you use to turn chisel handles?

Regards from Perth

Derek

smidsy
23rd April 2005, 03:11 PM
Derek,
About the one must have chisel is a smaller skew because the one inch in that set is a bit big. I have a half inch Hamlett which is wonderful and reasonably priced at $45.
I have the same set you've just bought, and I'm only adding to it as I see a need. So far I've bought a half inch kew and a half inch bowl gouge (both Hamlett) and I've made two scrapers for next to nothing from tool steel blanks.

Cheers
Paul

routermaniac
23rd April 2005, 03:55 PM
Derek I am in a similar position as yourself... looking for a decent but not too expensive set of chisels...


Have you seen the 8 piece set from Hare and forbes?

http://www.hareandforbes.com.au/sample_2/home.php


It seems pretty good value and you get a couple of extra chisels.

Another possibility is the sets offered by McJing, or better still checkout their site for tool steel and make your own :D .

http://www.mcjing.com.au/woodworking/index.htm

Re making chisel handles, I have made a few simple hardwood handles for files using the cheapie $6 chisel set from Bunnings. However given that Ive already snapped a chisel in the process, I imagine given your preference for Jarrah, I'd take it very easy if you're going to attempt this with cheapies.

I used a roughing gouge to get the basic shape, a skew to round over the bottom of the handle and a "diamond" type chisel for making the bit that holds the ferrule. It is also handy to have a set of vernier calipers for measuring the bit that takes the ferrule.

Having said that this is advice from one beginner to another, so tak it with a grain of salt... or maybe two grains :rolleyes:

westpest
23rd April 2005, 04:04 PM
Hi Derek

Next time you talk to Joe get him to show you the way he grinds his roughing gouge and spindle gouges. The way he does it allows you to do just about anything with just these two tools. I have just bought a 5/8" bowl gouge with an elsworth grind and it is unbelievably user friendly. I can do so much more with this grind even on spindle work. Not cheap @ $142.00 handled. Anyway after watching a DVD I just got from USA by a bloke called Bill Grumbine called A bowl turned easy he made it look so easy I had to try it, and it was.. Just my 2c FWIW

DanF

smidsy
23rd April 2005, 04:32 PM
Guys,
What I am finding is that most people end up using the 12mm bowl chisel (the long handled one) for roughing rather than the roughing gouge - it's a neater cut and taking less out means your wrists get less of a hammering.
When you're working a good size lump of timber the roughing gouge can really hammer your wrists.

It's hard to tell from that pic, but that set seems like the small stuff that bunnings sell and doesn't seem much value to me - I haven't seen anyone use a 16mm parting tool. Also, $54 for a 12mm skew on the individual chisel list - I only paid $45 for my Hamlett 12mm skew.

My advice would be stick with the 6 peice set and then add with Hamlett or similiar as you need it.
Cheers
Paul

gatiep
23rd April 2005, 06:11 PM
Derek

You did well with the TJ-6 set at $89-00, learn to grind the angles that suit you on them before grinding away a quality Hamlet. That is how I inform my students anyway. The Hamlet that you saw was definately the ASP steel and not the M2. A 19 mm M2 Hamlet at $58 less 10% at present is a steal for a quality tool! The handled hoopiron that you bought at B is absolutely useless as they don't even have the right shape to practice your grinding on. They also offer a chuck ( 4 jaw for $30 or thereabouts ) and they should be wiuthdrawn from the market as they are no good for wood turning and damn dangerous in my opinion. ( Not a humble opinion as it is a fact!).

Paul

That parting tool would be the height, not width of the tool, but hey it sounds more impressive than 4 mm , so thats how "they" ( not us ) advertise it to catch dem suckers. Proves a point....they have no idea!
Once you have the grinds that I use on your gouges, you'll wonder why you bothered buying that small skew. Anyway thats another story.

Incidentally, I use the TJ-6 tools for the students in the classes, altho mostly on pine, they hold a fair edge as I'm the only one who sharpens them. I personally use the Hamlet ones and yes the edge and edge holding is superior to the cheap HSS. Those HSS TJ-6 is a perfect set to practice sharpening on and the edge is good enough for Jarrah and weekend warriors.

MMMMMMMMMMMMM and I forgot what else I was going to respond to! Maybe next time.

rsser
23rd April 2005, 08:45 PM
Hard to beat the Chinese set for $89.

But I've had good results with carbon steel providing I stick to low to medium density woods and sharpen often. Isles is quality stuff. And at that price you can play with your own grinds.

With HSS and hardwoods you need to touch up the edge often anyway say with a diamond hone.

That said, my experience is like Cliff's and I now only use a V scraper in carbon steel.

smidsy
23rd April 2005, 09:29 PM
I've got two scrapers I made with tool steel blanks from Carbatec - one is a standard 10mm beast, the other is 25mm wide with a straight end and the cutting edge extended about 50mm up the left hand side of the steel.

I would say both are better than the scraper I've got in the chinese set and they cost $20 the pair to make - like any tool they tend to need sharpening more often when used on hard wood, but with the except of the high end gear this is normal for any tool.

Cheers
Paul