Tikki 23rd April 2005, 04:14 PM Hi all
Attached is a photo of a slab (30mm thick) of Jelutong from my timber rack. Some little beasties have been having a lovely time eating it! :mad: (The dark pieces are the plugs I removed from the holes).
I noticed one such hole when I purchased the piece about 5 months ago, now there are several. The woodworker I bought it from slabbed the piece whilst I was in his workshop and could not have missed seeing the hole. Considering he didn't mention it, I presumed it was no big deal.
Any ideas as to what has eaten it, whether the unaffected areas of the slab will still be suitable to use (and not produce any nasty surprises after the project is finished), if the rest of my timber is at risk (I checked the slab it was stacked against and there is no sign of any holes or dust) and if so, how (and what with) do I treat it?
Thanks for any advice you can give :)
Regards
Tikki
ptc 23rd April 2005, 06:09 PM Move House Quick !
E. maculata 23rd April 2005, 06:59 PM A few things I need to ask my good Man of green,
#1 Are you positive they wern't already there as you very detailed shot indicates to me from the sharp edges this was cut already containing the hole?
#2 are these holes anywhere near the sap region of the slab?
#3 have you gently blown into the smaller end of the two holes to check (A) they are actually the 2 ends of the same tunnel & (B) a grub or beetle isn't still there as this makes Id'ing heaps easier?
#4 If you are able to could you tell which end of the hole would've been closer to the base of the tree? (I'd almost bet a leftie the 10mm end is)
some more pix and investigation and lets see if you actually have a problem. or not
;)
JB 23rd April 2005, 07:28 PM Pretty odd getting holes that big in an imported, seasoned timber—being jelutong I assume it's imported. Whatever the borer/beetle it's the sort that normally attacks standing or unseasoned timber. Don't know of anything that size that attacks seasoned timber.
Tikki 23rd April 2005, 08:00 PM Thanks Bruce and Rusty :)
Bruce
1 Only one hole existed when the slab was sliced down (into 2), now there are several
2 I would have to sand one end of the slab to check the growth rings, but I do know the slab is at least 10-15 year old, should have minimal moisture
3 The holes go right through the timber at different angles, indicating they don't follow the grain. The photo shows the solid material I removed from the holes. It was like removing the loose timber from the centre of a knot
4 Sorry, no idea - never been able to fathom how to read grain direction :o
Rusty
Either it's a small insect that goes round and round to remove the central core, or something larger that may leave the solid waste core (being much darker, probably the latter). Some of the holes appear larger because of the angle of entry. The removed plugs are oval and approx 8mm at the widest point. The timber was stacked against a slab of Cinnamon Wood - it obviously didn't fancy that timber, turned around and re-entered the Jelutong
Tikki :confused:
E. maculata 23rd April 2005, 09:54 PM Tikki, I'm going to mull it over and check some references out tomorrow, I was leaning towards anomium borer or the smaller wood grub, maybe even lyctus type, but what you said pretty well rules them out. Being well seasoned timber and an exotic means I might actually have to do some homework cause it's bugging me now:rolleyes: On the other hand, there are some very experienced well informed heads around here and the odds are they will more of an idea than me. :cool:
JB 24th April 2005, 11:28 AM As your uninvited guests sound like they are still in residence the easiest way to identify them would be to see them. You could try injecting something offensive but not necessarily lethal (diluted turps perhaps or English beer) into one of the holes. Take cover at a safe distance and see what comes out.
Stuart 24th April 2005, 03:21 PM By the size of the holes, a shotgun might be more in order ;)
glock40sw 24th April 2005, 05:07 PM I was leaning towards anomium borer or the smaller wood grub,
G'day Bruce.
Remember I was telling you about Okum's Razor??
First thought, best thought, correct thought???
I would tend to agree with your above statement.
Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor
Grafton
E. maculata 24th April 2005, 08:11 PM Okay I'm leaning towards "anomium" see following excerpt from one of my text books....
Insects
The two groups of insects that worry timber users the most are borers and termites. Some species of borers attack only living trees, others are found more in green timber, and some prefer dry timber in a building. Termites will attack wood in any form, although some timbers are naturally resistant because of their silica content or other chemical deposits.
Since termites and borers can have such a serious effect on the strength of timber, there are specific building regulations designed to minimise the chance of particular types of attack. The regulations vary from one region to another, and also from state to state, depending on the likelihood of attack occurring in that area. We’ll discuss some of these regulations in this section.
Borers
Borers are beetles which at some stage of their development bore into wood for food or shelter. They pass through four stages: egg, larva, pupa and adult. With most borers, the major damage is done by the larvae, or grub, when it tunnels through the timber to access food. Generally speaking, the only damage they cause as adult beetles is when they bore an exit hole through to the surface so they can fly away and look for a mate.
Lyctid borers
Lyctid borers attack only the sapwood of particular hardwood species. They never attack the heartwood. The female beetles lay their eggs beneath the surface of the wood by inserting their ovipositor into the pores. If the pores of a particular species are too small for the ovipositor, then that species is immune from attack. If there isn’t enough starch in the sapwood to sustain the larva, then the attack will be very limited. Because softwoods don’t contain pores, they are all immune from attack.
The NSW Timber Marketing Act requires that framing timber containing lyctid susceptible sapwood must contain no more than 25% sapwood, measured around the perimeter of the piece. This means that if the timber is attacked after it has been installed in a structure, the damage done will be limited and won’t unduly affect the strength of the piece. In Queensland, the Timber Utilisation Marketing Act prohibits any lyctid susceptible sapwood in framing material. This is also the case with flooring timbers in both states—there must be no susceptible sapwood at all in a piece.
Sawmills therefore have two choices: they can either cut the sapwood out before they sell the material, or they can treat it with preservative chemicals so that it’s no longer susceptible to attack. Two common treatments used are boron and copper-chrome-arsenic (CCA) (see Section 4 for more on these treatments)
Anobium borers
The most common type of anobium borer in Australia is the furniture beetle. This beetle prefers damp, humid conditions and is a particular problem in old furniture, especially pianos and other articles with plywood backing made from softwood veneers. It’s also known to attack baltic pine flooring in houses with poor sub-floor ventilation.
In Queensland, the hoop pine borer, also from the anobium family, is sometimes found in timbers such as hoop and kauri pine.
Pinhole borers
Pin hole borers are also called ambrosia borers, because when the female lays its eggs, it bores into the wood, deposits the eggs, and then coats the walls of the hole with ambrosia fungi to provide a food source for the larvae when they hatch. This is why the holes generally have a characteristic blackish stain around them when the timber is sawn.
As their name implies, pinhole borer holes are generally long, straight and small in diameter, and tend to run at right angles to the direction of the grain. They only attack tress and freshly felled logs, since the ambrosia fungi need a high moisture content to survive.
Longicorn borers
Longicorns are also a forest problem, rather than a dry timber problem. They generally attack hardwoods, and drill oval shaped holes up to 10 mm in diameter, although sometimes the holes can be larger. Longicorns include the witchetty grub varieties.
Other forest borers
Some of the other borers that occur in forests are:
• jewel beetles, which attack unhealthy or fire-damaged cypress pine trees
• auger beetles, also known as bostrychids, which generally attack only the sapwood of hardwoods
• sirex wood wasps, which were a potentially serious problem in plantation pines in Victoria several years ago, but have now been brought under control.
I'm going with the anomium.
Barry_White 24th April 2005, 08:49 PM Whatever it is it would probably make good bait for a nice Murray Cod.
echnidna 24th April 2005, 08:51 PM So could these cause a problem like that,
Barry_White 24th April 2005, 08:54 PM So could these cause a problem like that,
More Murray Cod bait.
echnidna 24th April 2005, 08:58 PM More Murray Cod bait.
Trouble is grubs like this are easy enough to get but there aint no cod in our local rivers and lakes.
E. maculata 24th April 2005, 10:01 PM A good handful, what do you guys find them in? I know Yellow belly(golden perch) like them too, not bad fried up on barbeque either (so I'm told ;) )
Those grubs are tough suckers up here they eat high silica hardwoods and the causarinas (oaky type) mostly.
echnidna 24th April 2005, 10:09 PM These were in Manna Gum but get a few outa messmate & swamp gum too.
Havent found any in Blackwood though its high in silica.
I'm told they taste good but I'd rather watch someone else take the first mouthfull.
Tikki 24th April 2005, 10:13 PM :D Seems I should forget woodwork, go back to firearms training and breed fish bait!! :D
Bruce - thanks so much for your research results. :) Checked the Jelutong and no sign of anything "alive", just concerned about the rest of my "wood heap" - huon, sasafras, hoop pine, horse chestnut and the like. Will get all the timber out and check. If I do find any further activity, how do I treat/eliminate them? (Excluding the .357! :eek: )
Tikki
echnidna 24th April 2005, 10:37 PM Soaking wood overnight in turps kills insects and eggs.
Might not be practical for larger quantities though.
You could try letting off an insect bomb in your timber rack if you could cover it all up with a sheet of plastic or a tarp.
E. maculata 24th April 2005, 10:48 PM No wuckers Tikki.
To prevent further infestation I'd go with something along the lines of what Bob suggested this would be the most practical home solution.
Tikki 24th April 2005, 11:10 PM Like the insect bomb solution. Huh! Too easy!! :D :D
Thanks Bob, and everyone else for your input. :)
Tikki
Barry_White 24th April 2005, 11:57 PM A good handful, what do you guys find them in? I know Yellow belly(golden perch) like them too, not bad fried up on barbeque either (so I'm told ;) )
Those grubs are tough suckers up here they eat high silica hardwoods and the causarinas (oaky type) mostly.
Bruce
I don't know what the proper name for it is, but I find them in what we call locally Peppermint Gum. Has bark like mosaic tiles. We use it for firewood up here on the Tablelands.
My brother-in-law wrung barked a fair few of them about twenty years ago. It burns pretty hot and splits very easily. Not much good for anything else.
Island Nomad 26th April 2005, 07:20 PM It looks like a Jewel Beetle Attack to me.
glock40sw 26th April 2005, 08:45 PM how do I treat/eliminate them? (Excluding the .357! :eek: )
Tikki.
Easy... Use a beltfed 7.62...:D .
Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor
Grafton
Tikki 26th April 2005, 09:32 PM Island Nomad - have done a search on the Jewel Beetle and cannot find a description of how it attacks timber. I have removed some more of the "plugs" from the holes and the outer of some are paper thin - sound like Jewel Beetle?
Trevor - the 7.62 could be just the thing! I'm about to blow the stuff sky high - skin contact causes severe burning. :( Not sure I want to use it for anything now - target practice could be the go! :D
Tikki
Island Nomad 26th April 2005, 10:03 PM have done a search on the Jewel Beetle and cannot find a description of how it attacks timber. I have removed some more of the "plugs" from the holes and the outer of some are paper thin - sound like Jewel Beetle?
Looks and sounds like the Jewel Beetle, had a problem with it in some hoop pine about 15y ago, I was told at the time that they were in the tree before it was logged. From memory, I don't think that they are particularly rampant feeders.
I just replaced the timber, haven't had any further problems.
JB 27th April 2005, 07:25 PM I thought jewel beatle too as I've also had them in recently milled hoop pine and the holes looked similar (bloody big and emerging on an angle). But they only attack green timber and are killed by kiln drying. That's why I ruled them out in 15 years dry, presumably imported jelutong. However I've just read (in Pests of Timber in Qld) that there is a recorded case of one emerging after 17 years. Some of them obviously like to sleep in. And I s'pose there's no reason why they couldn't originate in Asia. I guess a lot of imported timber is not kiln dried (which kills them and their eggs).
As I said in my earlier post a dose of something unpleasant down one of the holes whould encourage a rapid exit of whatever lives within making identification easier.
By the way I treated my infested hoop pine slabs by fumigation. A weekend under a tarp, add fumes.
Tikki 28th April 2005, 11:07 PM Checked the "wood heap" today. No other timber shows any sign of holes. Rusty - gave the Jelutong a few "doses" and nothing emerged there, so ... looks like "Elvis has left the building"! :)
Thanks all for your help.
Tikki
Ausworkshop 30th April 2005, 04:46 PM I have a pile of Western Red Cedar that seems to have the same problem only the holes are smaller.
Got me worried now, I better go check that its not getting worse.
A good way to remove the beetles would be to set fire to the whole pile of timber.
Reminds me of the time I tried to exterminate a large huntsman with a can of WD40 and a lighter. A good idea at the time, killed the spider instantly however the pile of curly plane shavings which covered the entire floor under my workbench seemed to want to join in on the action! Not recomended.
Tikki 30th April 2005, 05:38 PM :cool: :D :D :D :D :D :D :D LOL
craigb 30th April 2005, 08:47 PM Reminds me of the time I tried to exterminate a large huntsman .
Why would you want tio exterminate a poor old huntsman? :confused:
They are pretty harmless creatures.
In fact, they are probably doing you a favor by preying on truly annoying things like mozzies and the like.
AlexS 2nd May 2005, 04:09 PM Why would you want tio exterminate a poor old huntsman? :confused:
They are pretty harmless creatures.
In fact, they are probably doing you a favor by preying on truly annoying things like mozzies and the like.
...and they just LOVE cockroaches.
Ausworkshop 16th May 2005, 03:52 AM Why would you want tio exterminate a poor old huntsman? :confused:
They are pretty harmless creatures.
In fact, they are probably doing you a favor by preying on truly annoying things like mozzies and the like.
You are right, I was about 16 at the time, I have since learnt about the delicate balance of the eco system and usually leave them alone.
As for the mozzies, I have pet frogs in my workshop's draw-bridge-pond/moat in an attempt to control these, unfortunatly the pond creates more mozzies than frogs but oh well, balance! balance!
Now local neigbourhood cats have spread the word around about my frogs & I find them gathered around my pond like an entertainment arena and they appear to be holding some kind of gladiator type death game with them nightly. Maybe I should cut a cat door in my shed to let them roam - thats where all the mice are hiding eating that left over quaterpounder I forgot to finish while clamping up that awfull wood & glue mess last week.
Blockman 30th October 2012, 06:12 PM Sorry to ressurect an old thread but...I looked at this thread as i use Jelutong a lot and saw that it was not actually answered...
Nothing was eating it.
The jelutong timber is the latex rubber tree. The holes and plugs are caused by metal spikes that are driven into the tree while alive to harvest the rubber. After cutting down and sawing into planks etc these are visible as scars that run at angles throught the plank from one side to the other.
The ones in this thread were there when the plank was purchased i am positive, sometimes they are hard to spot on a rough sawn plank and they don't all show up until you run it through a drum sander or something.
There is also a vine that will grow through the tree and leave holes and plugs in the finished plank as well.
Blockman
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