homemade large scraper for hollowing

[mat_au]

well im starting to do some deep hollowing and need something thats not going to cost an arm or a leg. been looking on youtube and seen that some people have made some homemade ones. Was thinking of buying some steal about 400mm long about 10mm thick and putthing a nice edge on it, but have no idea what kinda steal to buy or if there is anything special i have to do to the end. was thinking or a round nose scraper, so any suggestions would be nice

[shedbound]

you could shape an old file, they good scrapers and can be found cheap at a market.

[Paul39]

A high speed steel planer blade would be perfect. A set that has been resharpened to the limit would be cheap. Check around at a lumber yard that does milling.

I bought a set of 4 high speed steel, 3/8 X 1 1/2 X 12 inches at auction for $15.00 US.

Files do work but can snap off and the bits go sailing around. You also need to grind off the serrations as they mark the tool rest.

An engineers supply might order a piece of high speed steel the size you want.

Water or oil hardening carbon steel works, but comes unhardened and you would have to do that yourself or have it one.

A leaf car spring will work. Carbon steel & will need frequent sharpening.

An ugly one and prone to vibration is a rotary lawn mower blade. It will need frequent resharpening. Dull the sides on the grinder and wrap some tape around the end you hold on to.

[Bushmiller]

Mat

Good advice from Paul39

Your cheapest option of all is an old leaf spring off a vehicle, but you have to anneal the steel first (heat in a fire and allow to cool in the fire slowly as it dies down). A vehicle wreckers would be a good source and trucks have thicker leaf springs.

Annealing enables you to flatten the leaf by hitting with a hammer and then grinding your required shape.

Next step is heat treating by bringing to cherry red in a forge or with an oxy set (probably a heating head is best for a larger object, although for smaller items a #15 cutting tip will suffice). It is quenched in oil or water.

Object is then polished up (so you can see what you are doing) and tempered by reheating to a light straw colour and again quenched in oil or water.

The annealing process can be eliminated by purchasing new steel from a spring manufacturer.

This process is not the best available but suffices if you have limited facilities. It also relies on visual assessment of temperatures rather than precise measument that would occur with an oven. There is quite a bit of information available on the net.

Regards
Paul

[Avery]

Gary Pye sells HSS blanks

GPW HSS Blanks (http://www.garypye.com/Turning-Tools/GPW-HSS-Blanks-c46/)

[artme]

you could shape an old file, they good scrapers and can be found cheap at a market.

Files are problematic. I certainly would not use one, especially for deep hollowing.:no::no::no:
Too much chance of the thing snapping and causing you and turnings serious harm.

[Bushmiller]

Files are problematic. I certainly would not use one, especially for deep hollowing.:no::no::no:
Too much chance of the thing snapping and causing you and turnings serious harm.

Arthur

That's quite right. The cutting surface has to be completely removed first to eliminate stress fracture and once that is done the material is relatively thin. Too thin for a heavy duty scraper. On top of that you have to go through the whole process I outlined for a leaf spring.

HSS blanks would also be a good way to go but I am not familiar with the process of heat treating there and it may need more careful attention to temperature control. I think BobL has some information on that if he sees this thread.

Regards
Paul

[dr4g0nfly]

I came by an old Sorby Scraper tool, it had the handle & blade but no scrapers or screws. £1 down the hardware suppliers (min spend) bought me 5 screws and another copule of pounds a 1" x 3/8" x 12" piece of Ground Flat Stock (High Carbon). After that it was just a matter of making a few scraper tips to suit my immediate need and doing exactly as Bushmiller said to harden & Temper the steel. With plenty of left over bar for making more and different tips as needed.

[BamBam53]

These are some scrapers I made from some old carbon steel tools.

The tips are bits of high speed steel planer blade silver soldered onto the carbon steel.

Michael

256659256660

[Pat]

Oland tools anyone?

[Cliff Rogers]

Oland tools anyone?

Yup, hughie (http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/7266-hughie/) makes some good ones.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/oland-tools-inserted-tip-tools-your-experiences-opinions-48021/
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/making-your-own-pseudo-oland-tool-79308/
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/oland-tool-bevel-grind-102415/
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/shop-made-oland-tool-122767/
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f171/oland-tools-93724/
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/oland-type-tool-80837/

[powderpost]

I have made quite a few scraping tools by acquiring, :), mild steel and silver soldering pieces of machine hacksaw blade on to the end of the steel bar. The steel I have is 35 x 10mm down to 12 x 12mm sections. This way you can match the size of the tool to the job. Some of them even have handles. I found the hack saw blade superior to planer blades and old hacksaw blades are usually thrown out, therefore very cheap.
Jim

[wheelinround]

so I can follow

[Paul39]

Arthur


HSS blanks would also be a good way to go but I am not familiar with the process of heat treating there and it may need more careful attention to temperature control. I think BobL has some information on that if he sees this thread.

Regards
Paul

High speed steel blanks come prehardened and ready to work. They are shaped by grinding.

Below are a couple of junk tools I made. Smaller is 1/2 X 1/2 inch, made of mystery metal that was used as a stake for concrete forms. Larger is 5/8 X 5/8 and was a wood chisel made by a blacksmith from a file. I did nothing to either other than put on handles and sharpen.

I use them for hollowing and gouging off bark and dirt before using a bowl gouge on the outside. They both work well and are easy to sharpen.

[robo hippy]

Well, one note of caution, if you are reaching out a ways off the tool rest, you don't want a big cutter, 1/4 inch wide at most. The bigger the cutting tip, the more leverage is required. 1 inch wide scraper, I won't hang out more than 3 inches, no matter how big and heavy the cutter is. Hardened drill rod could work nice for cutting tips as well.

robo hippy

[mat_au]

wow thanks all so much info now to get the brain to process it all :D

what about 1/4 in steel bar with a woodcut removable bowl gouge tip ??

just a though was i was looking at them on the internet

[RETIRED]

How deep?

[mat_au]

say 15 - 20cm but its narrow so cant get my too rest in deep enough to be safe enough for my liking

[RETIRED]

For that depth a 1/4" is way too small. At least 14 to 16 mm minimum.

[mat_au]

sweet thanks . so would a removable woodcut tip work? or would it have to be like a round nose scraper?

[Paul39]

say 15 - 20cm but its narrow so cant get my too rest in deep enough to be safe enough for my liking

I like to have 2 to 3 times the length behind the tool rest as what is extending over the front.

If you intend to do any amount of bowls and do not have a 5/8 inch / 16mm bowl gouge, buy an unhandled gouge with an overall length of 300mm and put a 600mm handle on it.

Put the gouge 75mm into the handle and use a stout ferrule of steel or a coupler for copper pipe.

I like a big fat handle as I have big hands and arthritis, small diameter handles make my hands cramp sooner than I like. The long handle lets you put the back of the handle between your upper arm and body and gives lots of control.

The top one in the photo below is one I made. Going down, Thompson 5/8 gouge, Easy Finisher, Crown 5/8 gouge, Bodger 1/2 inch gouge.

The Bodger is Chinese and gives a good account of itself. It needed the inside of the groove honed and stays sharp only slightly less than the expensive ones.

Bodger 5/8" Bowl Gouge | Woodturning Gouge | Turning Tools (http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/bodger58bowlgouge.aspx)

If you don't want to make your own handle, several companies offer "long and strong" bowl gouges.

You originally asked about a scraper. If you still are wanting a scraper to hang out 200mm, get a piece of 16mm drill rod and handle as above. Grind the top half off the rod 30mm or so back from the tip and then round off the nose with about 15 degrees back at the bottom.

Refer to my junk tool photos higher up in the thread for the grind.

With the round rod, it will be stiff and you can roll it over and shear scrape.

I used the two ugly junk tools to make bowls for over a year until I got some crazy money for Christmas and bought a $75.00 16mm Crown bowl gouge made of high speed Sheffield steel.

The advantage of a scraper or Bedan type tool is that you can set it down on the flat plate in front of your grinder, hold it down with one finger, rotate the tool side to side to sharpen the whole rounded nose and be back to cutting in 15 seconds or less.


so would a removable woodcut tip work? or would it have to be like a round nose scraper?

You do not say how much metal working experience or equipment you have. If you are going to mount a woodcut tip to something, you might as well make a bowl gouge with about 150mm of useable gouge. If you make a lot of bowls, you might grind off 25mm a year from sharpening.

If you are making closed vessels you will need to make some funny side cutting scrapers or Oland tools as suggested above.

[Mobyturns]

say 15 - 20cm but its narrow so cant get my too rest in deep enough to be safe enough for my liking

Another option is the Robert Sorby modular tool rest system with their tool post and the flat tool rest for box scrapers.

[Bushmiller]

Mat

I have been in the process of putting some handles on chisels I made a while back and I will probably start a new thread for that. There are gouges, parting chisels, skew chisels and scrapers, but it is this last group that I thought might be of some interest. Here are some pix. The smaller scraper still requires it's handle.

257152257155257154

The larger round nose is 26mm wide, the vee shape is 18mm and the smaller round nose 22mm. All chisels are just under 8mm thick. The handles are tallow wood, which I acquired from Forum member Mapleman and be aware that the backs do need further flattening to be truly sharp.

As you can see the steel is far from perfect being old truck springs, but as long as a good flat surface can be achieved on the under side of the blade for up to 25mm back from the cutting edge you will be able to sharpen them satisfactorily.

Because they are carbon steel, they will need more frequent sharpening than HSS, but they will also be easier to sharpen (quicker). Having said all that I would be one of the worst woodturners around. In fact the irony is that the only turning I do is for handles for chisels, screwdrivers and the like. In other words very limited.

If you plan to do a significant amount of work I would suggest you treat yourself to a good quality chisel (even if you have to starve yourself for a week or worse stop drinking alcohol).

There is some fun in making chisels such as mine and it cost me nothing as long as you don't take into account a considerable amount of time. Probably the purchase of HSS blanks are a better bet providing you can buy the right size.

Really when I think about the only justification for the home made effort is if you cannot buy exactly what you want unless you have the perverse desire to make something from nothing or at least waste tending to scrap materials.

I hope this is of some help to you.

Regards
Paul

[mat_au]

wow thank you all so much its good to know there are ppl out there to help young new members like myself. just wanted to post and say thands im in the middle of my roster atm so ill sit down on wednesday and have a good read :D

[deepriver]

A simple but very long & strong tool for this is an Oland tool. I made one following the instructions here:- Wood Turning Tools: Making the Oland Tool (http://www.aroundthewoods.com/oland.shtml) using a 100 mm length of 10 x 10 tool steel (same as they use in metal working lathes) set into a length of water pipe set into a wooden handle. I use this tool in preference to a gouge to rough out, as it NEVER catches and is bomb proof.
Another way to make a scraper is to get an old skew chisel and grind it down as a scraper.
I have several scrapers made from thickish chisels and never had/have a problem - the drive belt always slips if there is a catch, so no breaks so far. Has anyone actually had a file-scraper snap or is this just an urban myth?

[RETIRED]

Has anyone actually had a file-scraper snap or is this just an urban myth?
No myth.

I have had gouges snap.

As for files, if you could ask a mate of mine about files he would tell you to never use them, he was killed by one that snapped.

[nz_carver]

I have snapped a scraper I can tell you that it's not a good felling
snapped bounced off the inside of the bowl lathe spat it out at hight revs strate into my facesheild.

[ian thorn]

If you are going to use files make sure you have a parmedic close by ,yes I had one break into about 5 pieces inside a bowl when I was 20yrs old im now 67 and I havent used one since not a good felling I used to make my own the spashed out and bought a Crown tool revelution great tool for hollowing just my 2 cents worth

Ian

[mat_au]

well im glad a file never came to mind at all. at this stage im going to get a nice peice of HSS steal from work and about 10mm thick 20mm wide and about 500mm long and go from there or get a HSS pole and about 500mm long and drill a hole at one end for a woodcut bowl gouge tip

[Cliff Rogers]

I've bent a gouge & I've had a HSS gouge snap. It was replaced but I have never trusted them since.

[oreos40]

For the Car spring route: no need to anneal first most of the spring shops recurve springs with just brute force. Hammer and a cavity anvil. the spring steel will hold an edge pretty well just take when sharpening. keep the tool cool and don't over heat. Robo brings up a good point, if you are going for deep scraping you have just created an industrial sized chatter tool. A better set up might be a god heavy piece of plain steel with a tool steel insert clamped in the end.

[dr4g0nfly]

Please excuse the first 4 tools, this is a generic picture of some of my home made tools.

The one of interest is the far right. It's a Roberts Sorby handle and Blade I came across without any scrapers. Sorby no longer support this tool so I had to improvise. A bit of High Carbon Ground Flat Stock (key stock) and I was able to make a couple to suit my needs and can make any others I need in the future.

Look again, the blade is nothing more than 3/8" thick steel rectangular section bar, drilled & tapped at one end and ground to a tang for a handle the other.

For interest, the other tools are a thin parting tool made from an industrial hacksaw blade, and a handless Skew (now available from Henry Taylor) and a couple of small box scrapers I've made from old planer blades.

[hughie]

Please excuse the first 4 tools, this is a generic picture of some of my home made tools.

The one of interest is the far right. It's a Roberts Sorby handle and Blade I came across without any scrapers. Sorby no longer support this tool so I had to improvise. A bit of High Carbon Ground Flat Stock (key stock) and I was able to make a couple to suit my needs and can make any others I need in the future.

Look again, the blade is nothing more than 3/8" thick steel rectangular section bar, drilled & tapped at one end and ground to a tang for a handle the other.

For interest, the other tools are a thin parting tool made from an industrial hacksaw blade, and a handless Skew (now available from Henry Taylor) and a couple of small box scrapers I've made from old planer blades.


Nice one DF and Matt if you look around for engineering shop that has a 'cold saw' The circular blades are HSS and they break from time to time and therefore useless to them. But ideal for making scraper blades such as your old Sorby. :2tsup:

[mat_au]

nice ill have a look at that too, but atm im re doing my shed due to moving all the misses crap in to the roof and gett the whole shed :D so i have crap every where while i build new shelves and get everything set up the way i want it

[hughie]

nice ill have a look at that too, but atm im re doing my shed due to moving all the misses crap in to the roof and gett the whole shed :D so i have crap every where while i build new shelves and get everything set up the way i want it


I have just completed something very similar , still getting it organised :U

[mat_au]

oh its a pain in the ass its nice to have the bigger room but gutting the shed and then finding new spot for everything is annoying and i cant do any turning till its done grrrr lol

[ian thorn]

Have a garage sale works wonders
Ian

[DaveTTC]

For the Car spring route: no need to anneal first most of the spring shops recurve springs with just brute force. Hammer and a cavity anvil. the spring steel will hold an edge pretty well just take when sharpening. keep the tool cool and don't over heat. Robo brings up a good point, if you are going for deep scraping you have just created an industrial sized chatter tool. A better set up might be a god heavy piece of plain steel with a tool steel insert clamped in the end.

Ok so I'll ask the question. Why normal steel with tool steel reserved only for the end?

[Cliff Rogers]

Money money money....

[powderpost]

Has anyone actually had a file-scraper snap or is this just an urban myth?

Not personally, but I was in the room when one broke into three pieces. The experience required two people to need a change of underwear.
Jim

[RETIRED]

A video showing why you don't use files. http://www.hiltonhandcraft.com/images/Video/FileScraperSnapped.avi

[orraloon]

Mcjing have a few deep hollowing tools at reasonable prices. You make your own handle and cutters also if you like to keep cost down.
McJING Tools Online

Regards
John





(http://www.mcjing.com.au/categorybrowser.aspx?categoryid=75)

[Trent The Thief]

A video showing why you don't use files. http://www.hiltonhandcraft.com/images/Video/FileScraperSnapped.avi

(It's much faster to download it then view it.)