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Iain
4th June 2002, 08:58 AM
Now looking for a dust collector, I've had a look at a couple of 1hp units which boast 650cfm.
Is this adequate?
Also they have a top and bottom bag, I realise that the bottom bag is for the debris and the top for air escape, now, does everything go through the blades or is it venturi effect and the heavy bits fall into the bag and miss the blades or is there a risk of damage if I clean the floor with it?

Tim the Timber Turner
4th June 2002, 10:05 AM
Adequate do do what??

Shane Watson
4th June 2002, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Tim the Timber Turner:
Adequate do do what??

Collect dust, one would have to think... http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/wink.gif

Iain mate, I have no idea what mine is without going out to the workshop and having a look. But what I can tell you is that I use mine to clean the floor regularly and it picks up nails and bits and pieces and shoots them through no worries. A bit of a clunk when they hit the blades thought, but the blades arn't showing any signs of wear.

Cheers... http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif

Iain
4th June 2002, 11:08 AM
Operate with the 12 1/2" Thicknesser, that is the biggest producer of rubbish I have.
I would also attach it to other machines but only one at a time.
I am consider a portable machine (on trolley, attach short hose to machine in use).
Most thing I use are adequately covered with a shop vac but I would use this for drill press when sanding, small belt sander, lathe and bandsaw.

Tim the Timber Turner
4th June 2002, 02:49 PM
Hi Iain
While not having any experience extracting a Thicknesser I offer a few points from my own experience.

For not much more money you could get a 2hp
single bag unit which won't take up much more room. The advantage of doing this is more suck and a bigger hose size.

If you are going to use the unit as a mobile.
I would strongly suggest you replace the top bag with a neddlefelt one because the standard bag on most units won't filter the fine dust. Don't forget you are going to inhale this exausted air.
Ace Filters in Melbourne will make any size filterbag and are very reasonable price-wise.
I would install as tall a bag as your head room permits. A bigger bag increases efficency.

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Some days I turns thisaway, somedays I turns thataway and other days I don't turn at all.

John Saxton
5th June 2002, 08:01 PM
Iain,I recall that there may be some previous posts on this topic...have a look back thru the archives....
Cheers http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

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Johnno

Rod Smith
6th June 2002, 12:12 AM
G'day Iain
Should do the job no worries one machine at a time with no more than say 3m flex tube.
cheers
Rod

JackoH
6th June 2002, 02:38 PM
Iain.
I have a 1h.p.650cfm.Chinese made model, purchased on special from Carbatec at last years W.W.W.Show.(same as on p.24 of their current cattledog.) It works very well with about 2m.x 100ml hose ,and on one machine at a time.Easy to move around the workshop as it is on castors. Remember it is a dust extractor, and even small shavings off the lathe will quickly block it up.Used in combination with my Racal, particularly when sanding, it keeps the dust to a minimal level. Neilssorry,Tims! suggestion re. replacing the top bag is a good one and I will probably look into that soon. Regards, John H. http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by John Hambly (edited 06 June 2002).]

[This message has been edited by John Hambly (edited 14 June 2002).]

RETIRED
6th June 2002, 09:01 PM
I am sure he meant to say Tim http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Ian () Robertson
"We do good turns every day"

John Saxton
6th June 2002, 09:21 PM
Iain,I think that in the analysis of cfm drawpower your 650 cfm in a 1hp unit is ok provided you use it solely with the thicknesser.
I have a 2hp unit with blastgates and a pvc in suction set-up.Its capable of handling the capacity of around 1350 cfm which means if necessary I can have 2-3 blast gates open without due diminish of suction on those units.
There is a chart around giving the nominal values of cfm expected off each type of woodworking machine for the small shop...and for the life of me I cannot locate it but gives the sawbench at the top of the range or thereabouts with about 450 cfm.
I have used mine on occasion to "vacuum" the floor and does it with no problems at all as will your 1hp unit like I had previously providing your dedicated suction is addressed to the same purpose.
Hope this helps
Cheers http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

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Johnno

peter
7th June 2002, 02:08 PM
I also have a question about the small 1HP units. I have seen that Carba-Tec sell a single bag 1HP unit as well as a two bag unit. Are the single bag collectors any good or should you make the space for the larger two bag collector?.

Regards,

Peter.

Eastie
7th June 2002, 03:16 PM
Peter,
One problem with smaller bags is the increased frequency of emptying, increasing your exposure to fine dust ….

As for collection efficiency, I’m not sure what micron capacity the standard bag material is rated to, I would definitely ask to see some form of written test result – never ever rely on word of mouth.

If it can’t filter out finer dusts (<1 - 5 micron), then its defeated the purpose of being small and should be set up outdoors with connecting suction hose.
I’m guessing with this model to achieve a good capture efficiency you’d need to look further in to Tims advice.

Hope this helps,
Mark

[This message has been edited by Eastie (edited 07 June 2002).]

Iain
7th June 2002, 04:15 PM
Thanks for the responses, Johnno, 2hp is probably going to be an overkill and a health risk to the cat http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif
As for double units, the size difference is only vertical, is that really a major problem.
Most work areas are restricted in floor space and a double decked bag shoudn't make a lot of difference.
I intend to take a look at the 5 micron bags and see what is in store.

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John Saxton
7th June 2002, 07:57 PM
Iain, I wasn't suggesting that you go for a 2hp unit..I used that as a comparison.
I had a 1hp unit beore I upgraded to larger units and it handled most provided you dedicated it to the particular machine you were using, was bag under/bag over for fine micron collection.
It was also capable of "vacuuming" all the bits off of the floor.
One thing I do do is wash the top bag/s every six months..tho 'Er Indoors don't take too kindly to the assault on the washin' machine...but it does take out all that fine stuff that adheres to the bag even after a couple of taps to knock it down!
Cheers http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

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Johnno

Iain
7th June 2002, 08:47 PM
Sorry Johnno, I was not suggesting that you were suggesting that suggesting a 2 hp unit was a better suggestion than a 2hp.
I was only joking about the cat, I hate the damned things, but we do have Corgis which are a similar size and I have no idea how to remove a corgi from a 4" hose.
I think a 1hp would suffice my needs and I am sure I will regret the decision later.

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Tim the Timber Turner
7th June 2002, 10:11 PM
If you are worried about the corgis make sure you get the model with a reversing switch. This should overcome the problem.

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Some days I turns thisaway, somedays I turns thataway and other days I don't turn at all.

Shane Watson
8th June 2002, 09:02 AM
If their anything like my corgi's they'll be to fat & lazy to even want to go anywhere near the dust collector! http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif

Iain
8th June 2002, 09:23 AM
The tails could be a problem Shane, ours are Cardigans not Pembroke.
Only 2 years old and still active (but solid).
Not sure about the reverse switch, imagine the damage caused by an ejected Corgi....
bit like a large furry champagne cork

[This message has been edited by Iain (edited 08 June 2002).]

soundman
8th June 2002, 09:47 AM
Reminds me of a friend who at the request of her indoors hunted out a mouse from behind a dresser with the houshold vac.
The mouse got stuck in the wand.
Clearance was obtained by connecting to the blow outlet.
Verry messy but got the job done.


[This message has been edited by soundman (edited 08 June 2002).]

Yip
11th June 2002, 06:00 PM
A friend of mine has suggested converting a portable evaporative cooler to a dust extractor, by removing the water cooling system and pump etc. Has anyone tried this?
Any comments regarding this idea would be greatly welcomed. The goal would be to remove the residual dust lingering in the air as all major equipment has dust extraction available.

tia

Paul Kane

[This message has been edited by Yip (edited 11 June 2002).]

Iain
11th June 2002, 07:26 PM
Picked up the 1hp unit today, one hour assembly and alls well, quiet aren't they http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif
Cost $259.00 and there was a another one similar for $292.00, I thought the only difference was 1m of hose but it turns out it is actually a floor vac and when the hose is connected to the base you push it aroiund the floor to clean up, he's still got a heap left and they are good value.
I made sue my unit had metal blades as I think they will ensure a longer life with the bit of crud that ping through them, including little bits of metal on the floor.
All I need now is a floor sweeper and I will probably fabricate that from some of the ply I have laying aroung the place, shouldn't be that hard.
Paul, I have considered doing what you are talking about and I have the blower unit out of a wall furnace I have just removed, I think it could work well with a variety of filter materials available.
Cheaper than a 'bought' one.
Just what material to use for a filter????
or maybe just vent it outside the workshop.
By the way, your Fly's undone (I'm sure Paul will understand and it's not an insult http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif)

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zathras
11th June 2002, 08:40 PM
Iain,

Wheredyagetit ?

I remember a few years ago these things usually went for $400 odd bucks (1HP). At the time I decided to have a go and build my own as I had a suitable motor lying about.

Thing works and sucks well but generates a bit of a roar. I suspect the shaped blades of the commercial units help a lot in this regard.

At $259 I may almost be tempted to upgrade to a real machine http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

Cheers Ray

John Saxton
11th June 2002, 08:45 PM
Now to get it hooked up to your Thicknesser and test driven...we await your response.

Tight seal on the M/c you're drawing off of is naturally essential.100mm hose clamps are'nt cheap but do the job ...failing that Iain plastic ties used in the electrical industry will suffice.You find that if you have a dip in the suction hose the heavier chips will sit there and an occasional lifting of the hose will sort this out.

Watch out for stray pussies http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif
Cheers:0

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Johnno

Iain
11th June 2002, 09:27 PM
Ray, I posted this a few weeks ago.
This is a wholesaler going out of business, all his machinery is Taiwan and seems to be good quality.
Phone 9761 8087. Based in Kilsyth Melbourne outer east.
These are the same machines that retail for $400++++ but be quick as he is closing up at the end of the month.
I got a vertical 2 bag unit that runs an induction moto, there is a cheaper under bench one bag model but is noisy with a brush motor.
John, I will get some clamps but will bear in mind the ties and Pussy is never a problem here, never get any stray http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif.
Just beware the Corgi.
Will try to hook up at the weekend after the bloody never ending horse events, God I wish she was 18 and could drive herself there.

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zathras
12th June 2002, 09:16 AM
Iain,

OK, it wasn't clear that you got the items from said wholesaler. Kilsyth is bout 100k's for me so I'll have a good think about that sort of journey through/across Melbourne....
Is he a weekday only man being a wholesaler ?

Re induction vs brush motors. Yes give me an induction motor any day over a brush motor, especially in "stationary" machines, Those brush things scream like banshees http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/frown.gif
That's the beauty of a real dust extractor, it is pretty damn quite as opposed to your vacuum cleaner, so your more inclined to leave it running http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif


Cheers Ray

Iain
13th June 2002, 02:31 PM
Went to purple pig today and got 3m of 100mm hose ($50 with clamps), hooked it up and went like a charm, no worries and just the odd chip slung out the back of the planer.
Picks up I would say 95%+ and very happy with it.
Walked around the floor afterwards carrying the hose and gave the floor a clean, apart from discovering that its concrete it worked really well and got the lot.
Picked up a metal lid about 3" across that was buried in sawdust, bit of a clatter but no real problems, not that I will do that intentionally.
Nice and quiet and am really pleased with the results.
Ray, he works 7 days a week and is closing down the machinery side of the business and going into another business.
He's got two bloody great machinery sheds at the side of his property and its full of WW gear, all brand new.
Anyone thinking of going in afterhours without the checkbook, he's got two huge bloody dogs that are bigger than my horses.
I checked some of the model numbers on the gear and it is the same as other peoples numbers, eg Planer CT344 same as Carbtecs but with a different name.

John Saxton
17th June 2002, 10:05 PM
Interesting Article in the "Australian Wood Review" on page 4 regarding an Australian produced Bin Chief Portable Dust Collector.

Not exactly cheap ... it may suit some set-ups but at around $1400 a lot of thought has to be given on an outlay for this unit.

Different than the usual bag over/bag under..this set-up uses a wheelie bin to expel the product from 9 anti static bag filters, the fan unit being a separate unit has to be moved around to accommodate.

For mine I think for that sort of outlay I'm more than happy to stick with my arrangement at more than 1/2 the cost of that judging by the review.
Cheers http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

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Johnno

zathras
18th June 2002, 08:22 AM
On the subject of dust extractors, I have found an easy way to make the connection to and from machines.

Go to a plumbers supply and get a 100mm pan connecter. For those that don't know, a pan connector is how they attach a crapper onto a sewer inlet.

The beauty of this is that it has a rubber sheet inside which will happilly stretch and fit over other lengths of 100mm pipe, or even smaller diameters and stay airtight. (Fortunately for its intended application http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/biggrin.gif)

Even better, your 100mm flexible hose will slip over the back of the pan connector and stay in place with some duct tape (get some of that too) very very neatly.

Been using this method for over a year now and very satisfied. You will get a bit of chip build up within the connector, but leave the blower on and pull the joint apart and the chips will vanish with very little assistance.

Cheers Ray

John Saxton
20th June 2002, 10:11 PM
Because Iains post hasn't 'flamed out' yet I thought that I'd add another thought with his intended use of the dust extractor(and one that came from another BB} which is to duct the area he has with blast gates ..taking the dust collector unit outside if possible and external to the workshop with the ducting exhausting thru an external wall with the fines of the dust of a 'choked' bag.
This serves two purposes if feasible within his location and that is one.. saving space that the collector takes up and also removing the dust to an external area even where one may become 'lax' in cleaning the bag.
Whilst this may not be a choice for Iain,it may be a choice to consider for those contemplating a dust extractor set-up.

Cheers http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

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Johnno

Iain
21st June 2002, 08:56 AM
I have thought abouth this, but, always a but isn't there?.
Is there 'line loss' so to speak over an extended run?
Don't want to spend a fortune putting in ducting only to find out the DC won't work.
Found a problem with my DC too.
The motor sits on a metal cylinder and there is a cooling fan on the bottom of the motor.
On the base of the trolley os a corresponding hole to allow airflow.
One morning I was cleaning the floor and dragged the unit behind me while it was running, suddenly there was a horrible noise and I turned it off.
Quick check found that it had sucked up an old Bunnies bag of the floor and into the fan.
Bunnies have struck again.

zathras
22nd June 2002, 09:57 AM
Iain.

Regarding losses, you should try to keep the use of the flexible hose to a minimum. The corrugated interior does a hell of a lot more constricting than the smooth internals of proper piping.

But you are right, the longer the run, the more loss you'll suffer.

Cheers Ray

Tim the Timber Turner
22nd June 2002, 12:58 PM
One point worth remembering if you are considering using PVC piping as ducting.
You must earth the entire length of ducting.

I have run a copper wire internaly along the entire length of my system, including the drops and earthed it to the extractor unit and to a metal rod in the ground.

Failure to do this will result in a build up of static electricity. Given the right concentration of dust and a sufficent spark an explosion can happen. A slim chance perhaps but I wouldn't want to have to explain the big bang to the neighbours. Some of the worst dust explosions have happened in grain silos.

Commercial ducting instalations are always in metal for this reason.

If you should use a plactic blast gate in a metal system you should always bypass the gate with an earthing wire.

When fitting the PVC piping to my bandsaw I failed to earth the last 1.5 meters. After 10 min use of the saw I touched the unearthed
section and got a boot.

Having made all these warnings I would use PVC again because the end result is great. It's easy to pull apart to modify as ones needs change. It needs a screw to hold the down drops together but nothing is glued.

My run is 15 meters of 6" pipe with 7 drops.
the extractor in a 2 hp Woodfast unit with a
modified top bag system consisting of 9 small diameter neddle felt bags 1.5 meters high. These increase the surface area of the original filter by a factor of 3.

Don't try this with a 1hp unit because you won't get enough suck.

Another idea worth considering is a Negitive Ion Generator. I find this reduces the amount of very fine dust floating in the air.

None of the above is much use if the housekeeping is slack. It's not much use doing all these things to reduce the problem and then working at a bench that's covered in dust. You pick up a tool that's covered in dust and create a dust cloud 12" from your face.

Your in Dust & Chips.

Tim



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Some days I turns thisaway, somedays I turns thataway and other days I don't turn at all.