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routermaniac
1st May 2005, 12:01 PM
ok guys, here it goes, recently started woodturning and Im pretty comfortable with spindle gouges, the roughing gouge, parting tool and the skew for most things... but...

The skew scares the*&^% out of me when I try to use it for planing. I have looked at guides on the net and I think Im doing most things ok and I can plane ok every now an then for short lengths, ie a couple of inches.

My main problem is that the end result is rarely ever a symmetrical cylinger... always a good finish but rarely symmetrical (I can do it with the roughing gouge no probs). I could just give up and sand the damn thing down, for most things I do I dont need a spectacular finish anyway but I thought if any of you have any tips I should at least try them.

And btw I have no time for a club, I'd love to but time is at a premium, when I do get to use any tools it is generally 30-60 minutes after work, when theres still a bit of light. Most weeken are alo non existent :( .

regards

marios

Ross
1st May 2005, 12:08 PM
My old teacher said 'use what you are comfortable with'. I know others will disagree with me but, I gave up on the skew and now use either the gouge or for a better finish a spindle master.

Ross

routermaniac
1st May 2005, 12:13 PM
Ross excuse my ignorance but what is a spindle master?

macca2
1st May 2005, 12:15 PM
As in all things, mastering the skew chisel takes time and practise. If you want to improve your skills with this tool I think you are going to have to find the time to practise, practise and practise.
Sorry about that but I know of no other way.

Macca

JackoH
1st May 2005, 12:26 PM
The skew, used properly, is one of the most satisfying of all the turning tools. You must find time to get some lessons, to nip bad habits in the bud. I have rarely had a problem with the skew as I was taught from scratch by a tutor who forgot to tell me how difficult and scary :eek: it was!
A spindle master is one of Sorbys 'specials'(They are fond of producing these from time to time as the answer to all your problems'not') I have one at the back of my cupboard along with all the other 'must have' tools I was conned into buying when I started turning.
Have a look at their website:www.robert-sorby.co.uk and all will be revealed. ;)

Christopha
1st May 2005, 03:56 PM
I don't want to sound big headed ( but I do anyway!).....but...... the Skew is probably easier to master than the spindle gouge.
For planing cuts:
1; stand comfortably balanced with both feet parallel to the axis of the lathe and about as far apart as your shoulders.
2; hold your tool so the handle is against your side
3; place the chisel on the work with the cutting edge at approximately 45degrees to the direction of travel of the work.
4; slowly lift and advance the tool till you see a small puff of 'dust' appear on the edge.
5; begin to move your body, with the tool in tow, in the direction you wish to plane.
6; repeat as per required till all gone!

For ease of use don'thone the edge of the tool, hold the tool in an overhand grip, relax!!!

Barry_White
1st May 2005, 04:00 PM
The skew scares the*&^% out of me when I try to use it for planing. I have looked at guides on the net and I think Im doing most things ok and I can plane ok every now an then for short lengths, ie a couple of inches.

marios
I reckon the skew is a piece of cake.

If the skew scares the *&^% out of you, try using one of these on the face a 8' Dia ring screwed to a cross arms trying to get it perfectly flat, with the tool on pedestal tool stand 4' away from the centre, and hoping like hell that it doesn't dig in.

adrian
1st May 2005, 05:39 PM
I'm with you and also one of the many beginners who think that the skew is a difficult tool to master. I only have two woodturning books but they both say it's difficult for the beginner.

Planing a long spindle is like cutting a bit off a table leg because it's too long and then finding out that you've taken off too much and having to shorten the other three to match it. Before you know it your dinner table is a coffee table. (and your spindle is a toothpick)
Have a look at this thread.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=12937&page=1&pp=15

Slow and steady is the key and Christopha's advice to "relax" is spot on.

MajorPanic
1st May 2005, 07:59 PM
DO IT NOW!!!!

Learn how to use a skew!!!

I was taught by a master turner that 90% of spindle work is with a skew, once you have mastered that the rest is FAIRLY simple! ;) :cool:

routermaniac
1st May 2005, 09:57 PM
thanks for the advise guys... I didnt think that mastering the skew was going to happen overnight, so I will continue playing with it when I get a chance. For day to day stuff I will stick with my gouges, they seem to get the work done with little disappointments :)

smidsy
2nd May 2005, 12:03 AM
Hei Guys,
Call me a heretic but that spindle master looks like a cross between a skew and scraper.
Wouldn't be that hard to make one.
Cheers
Paul

Neil
2nd May 2005, 10:04 AM
Smidsy - Yet another of the gimmick tools that Sorby make for wannabe turners who can't cut the mustard. They've discovered a goldmine in the form of wannabe's and must be making a fortune flogging them these sorts of tools. :D

routermaniac - To use the skew easily and correctly follow Christopha's advice. But before doing that turn off the lathe and see what angles you would have to use to get a shaving off the timber without the aid of the lathe spinning... i.e. as you would if trying to take a shaving with a regular chisel off a flat piece of wood. These are the same angles you will use with the lathe running.

Adding a little clarification to Christopha's post.,,, Hope he doesn't mind.

3; place the tool on the toolrest then place the bevel of the chisel on the work with the cutting edge at approximately 45 degrees to the direction of travel of the work.

5; begin to move your body, with the tool in tow, in the direction you wish to plane. Keep the tool angle constant. Do not raise or lower the handle end of the too unless you are following a curve.

Now adding to Christopha's post.

7; might sound silly, but make sure the tool is always resting on the toolrest, never try and lift it from the rest whilst in contact with the timber, don't have it resting on your finger or anything other than the tool rest.

8; keep the cut in the centre or lower half or the tool, get above centre an you will most likely get a really big dig in.

9; keep the bevel of the tool rubbing at all times this is what enables you to make the tool go where you want it to. Bevel rubbing - lift handle deeper cut, lower handle finer cut.

Lifting the bevel off the timber will help create chatter and will usually end with a dig in, unless you are a really experienced turner. Until then keep the bevel rubbing.

Cheers - Neil :)

PS Relax, don't choke the tool, it will work much better.

JackoH
2nd May 2005, 10:08 AM
What'd I tell ya!

Christopha
2nd May 2005, 04:48 PM
Bloody wacker, can't leave a bloke alone..... gotta muddy the waters and confuse the punters.... :p

Neil
2nd May 2005, 07:11 PM
http://www.ubeaut.biz/argue.gif Listen ere boofead.... The waters was already muddy and jumpin head first into muddy waters usually leads to trouble. What sounds simple, straight forward and logical to us sperienced turners isn't always that clear or straight forward to a novice. :confused:

Muddyin the waters - not likely just, trying to make them a little clearer. Something as simple and obvious to us as placing the tool on the tool rest first, isn't necessarily as obvious to a novice.http://www.ubeaut.biz/rude.gif

http://www.ubeaut.biz/blah.gif

Christopha
2nd May 2005, 08:35 PM
Crap!

Jon
2nd May 2005, 09:20 PM
I am just starting out on my fathers lathe and unfortunatly I never got around to getting him to teach me. I bought myself Fundementals of Woodturning by Mike Darlow and I starting with spindles and can use a roughing gouge okay and can sort of use a skew for planing.

As a right hander should my right hand be on the handle or up on the tool rest guiding the skew? I currently have it on the handle but reading some posts and other sites it is sort of hinted that my right hand should be guiding the chisel.

I know this one is a can of worms but as a beginner should I cut beads with the skew or a parting tool as demonstrated by Brian Clifford? I can do real nice spiral catches with the skew but can almost do a bead with the parting tool.

While I have you, what is the sharpening angle of a parting tool and am I right in sharpening a skew at 25deg?

thanks, Jon :confused:

routermaniac
2nd May 2005, 09:49 PM
Thanks for the tips guys, esp Neil on your useful essay on the skew :) . I think part of the problem maybe the angle that I have ground the skew at, makes it tricky maintaining the bevel rubbing consistently.

I may muck around a bit this weekend (provided it doesnt rain) and see whether grinding the skew at different angles will make a difference... I am guessing if I grind at a more acute angle that will give me more area to work with, I suppose that maybe a good thing, maybe not.

I will keep at it though because it (woodturning) really increases your options in terms of what you can do. Plus turning a chisel handle takes a great deal less time than trying to make one with the spokeshave, my files and sandpaper!

rsser
2nd May 2005, 10:36 PM
Stick with the angle recommended by Darlow et al. - compromise between planing and beading.

I've learned a bit about skewing from two teachers - and if your time is short you might want to consider taking a one on one lesson - but never practiced. I think the only thing I really need a skew for is stacked beads.

barnsey
3rd May 2005, 03:19 AM
Ain't the skew a ***** - just when you think you've mastered it you get a giant dig in and ruined your next project. :(

As someone said earlier "practice" then do some more. The results when you get it right are great. I used making rolling pins. Bad choice really coz SWMBO keeps beating me around the head with em - but hey sharpened up my ability.

It also helped my decision on how to grind the skew. Some suggest a curved grind but I find I get much better results with a straight grind. I feel it is a little more forgiving if you err towards the tip. But each to their own

My 2p worth

Jamie

adrian
3rd May 2005, 11:51 AM
Speaking of Mike Darlow, I just took delivery of his DVDs and the Woodturning Design book yesterday. Halfway through the DVD I'm realising that I am starting to dislike the man because everything is so effortless, his chisels are so sharp, his lathe is something I probably won't ever be able to afford and he does it for a living. I could go on, but won't.
Then when he was doing a lidded box he had a a dig-in with a skew and got the cutest little spiral you ever did see. Now he's my hero and he's probably going to the top of my christmas card list. :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
It was well worth the investment.

rsser
4th May 2005, 07:29 AM
Hehehe.

I think his intro book is hard to understand, and that's in part because he's using consistent and rigorous language to describe tool positioning.

Many other writers don't and their instructions are unclear as a result. Raffan's intro book is a beaut, but I'm damned if I can understand what he's describing when talking about how to cut a bead on the outside of a bowl. The photos help but I'll just have to play with some guesses on a practice piece to sort it out.

(Or not; any such bowl is immediately labelled a Raffan-inspired piece!).

JackoH
4th May 2005, 10:27 AM
Get some bloody lessons, or join a club, then you'll know what Mike Darlow is talking about!! :mad:

rsser
4th May 2005, 10:37 AM
Get some bloody lessons, or join a club, then you'll know what Mike Darlow is talking about!! :mad:

There are reasons I was trying to suggest that I find Darlow to understand, and that is that I don't have a technical background and I find his writing technical.

I'm always open I hope to feedback mate, and I'm more likely to listen to yours if you put it in the form of a question rather than gratuitous advice bordering on the abusive.

As it happens I've had a bunch of one-on-one lessons with professionals.

adrian
4th May 2005, 11:01 AM
Darlow is rather technical in his teaching. The videos contain quite a lot of blackboard theory and I found myself hitting the 'fast forward' button a few times. It's still good to be able to see a pro at work and some of his chisel work is rough enough to make me feel better about my inadequacies.

JackoH
4th May 2005, 11:14 AM
Ern. I apologise unreservedly for my outburst. I did not intend it to come across as a personal criticism of you.
If you have followed my postings over the years you will realise that one of my pet hobby horses is trying to persuade people who start woodturning to invest in some lessons, or at least join a club so that they can pick up the basics of their chosen hobby.
They rush out and buy the wrong tools, lathes, etc. and then ask advice on these forums when the equipment doesn’t meet their expectations.
I too have some difficulty with Mike Darlows books ( I have all five of them) but without the lessons I had when I began turning I would have had no hope of understanding what he’s on about.
For the record it is my belief that in these five volumes Mike has written what will become with time, the definitive work on modern wood turning. :)

rsser
4th May 2005, 05:54 PM
That's cool JackoH. Appreciate the apology.

I agree with you ... lessons, books, videos, clubs, shows: it's all about informing yourself.

And I'm impressed by Darlow's thoroughness. There's too much vague language used re turning. Eg. read this one in a mag, re shaping the outside of a bowl: start with the gouge on its side on the rest with the flute pointing in the direction of the cut.

Reckon this would send a beginner to the fridge, or to the optometrist ;-}

adrian
4th May 2005, 06:37 PM
Having finished watching the video I think the only real criticism of it is that he needed a fan to blow away the shavings during closeups and when bringing the chisel to the work he needed to turn the chisel so that the viewer could see the orientation of the bevel. Sometimes when he used gouges all you could see was a round bar and you couldn't see where the cut was going to commence until after he had started. Then the shavings came into play.
I hope I explained that properly. It's something like looking at the picture of a bowl where you can't tell whether you are looking at the inside or the outside until it's tilted slightly.

gatiep
6th May 2005, 02:19 AM
Two things from the above:

Quote from Neill:"Now adding to Christopha's post.

7; might sound silly, but make sure the tool is always resting on the toolrest, never try and lift it from the rest whilst in contact with the timber, don't have it resting on your finger or anything other than the tool rest.

8; keep the cut in the centre or lower half or the tool, get above centre an you will most likely get a really big dig in.

9; keep the bevel of the tool rubbing at all times this is what enables you to make the tool go where you want it to. Bevel rubbing - lift handle deeper cut, lower handle finer cut.

Lifting the bevel off the timber will help create chatter and will usually end with a dig in, unless you are a really experienced turner. Until then keep the bevel rubbing."

Sound advice. Seen skews lifted off the tool rest many times by students with disastrous results. As for the finger..........seen those too....they tend to either bleed or have a 'purple' look about them for a week or three. Good stuff Neill, sometimes what seems obvious is not so obvious to the novice.

Second bit: Mike Darlow is very knowledgeable and extremely technical but his monotone dialog on his tapes and dvds are definately the best hypnotic around for me

Sweet dreams!

RETIRED
6th May 2005, 03:22 PM
Second bit: Mike Darlow is very knowledgeable and extremely technical but his monotone dialog on his tapes and dvds are definately the best hypnotic around for me

I will second that.