stanley/bailey plane

[spokeshave]

Hi eveyone.

Have the opportunity to get hold of an old stanley/bailey no.4 hand plane.

It is in it's original cardboard box and has never been used. Its on a swap and sell website so have no pics to show you but looks in realy good nick and is for sale for $120.

My main concern is that it has bakelite handles (is this a clue to its age and worth) and i dont know how old it actually is.

Do you all think its worth grabbing.

Thanks.

Steven.

[spokeshave]

Sorry folks, its a 4 1/2.

[Colin62]

I'm not in Australia, so I'm not 100% sure of the price of planes there, but $120 sounds a bit much for that. The handles date it to somewhere around the 70s at best, well after Stanley made their best planes.

A quick glance at ebay looks like you could pick up something older (and therefore better) for a fair bit less than that.

[NCArcher]

Even unused planes of that vintage are not worth $120. Maybe $20 but you can pick up a much better, older example for around the same price.
Leave that one for someone who wants to put it on the mantlepiece not as a user.

[seanz]

Do you all think its worth grabbing.

I don't think any of 'us' (handplane obsessed galoots) would say it was worth grabbing at that price. You should be able to pick up a better, earlier plane for half of that price.

[pmcgee]

Yes - mint condition in box is perfect for collecting, but you can get a lot of plane for $120.

A little rusty and unloved is perfect for rehabilitation and possible upgrade of iron+cap-iron.

Cheers,
Paul

PS - a WoodRiver #4 from Jim Davey is $175
Jim Davey Planes & Sharpening - eShop - Sales (http://www.jimdavey-planes-sharpening.com/EShop/EShop.aspx?EshopID=8607ccbf-fea8-48e0-a1d5-90600a129f1a)

a refurbished #4 (standard iron) $130
Jim Davey Planes & Sharpening - eShop - Sales - Search result: (http://www.jimdavey-planes-sharpening.com/EShop/ProductList.aspx?EshopID=8607ccbf-fea8-48e0-a1d5-90600a129f1a&CategoryID=6208bfb3-a566-4c38-9caf-11a92b435ba5)

or ebay or just ask on this forum ... probably a bargain not too far from hand.

[Vann]

I know it's hard to get your head around when you're new to this hobby, but a dirty old well-used plane that works, is far better than a nice shiney one that's a dog. The plastic/resin handles date the plane to an era (late 1970s or 1980s) when Stanleys quality control had gone out the window. So the chances of it being a crapper are mucher than for an earlier plane. Maybe there's a reason it never been used....

Cheers, Vann.

(that's not to say you couldn't fluke a good one)

[ian]

Hi eveyone.

Have the opportunity to get hold of an old stanley/bailey no.4 hand plane.

It is in it's original cardboard box and has never been used. Its on a swap and sell website so have no pics to show you but looks in realy good nick and is for sale for $120.

My main concern is that it has bakelite handles (is this a clue to its age and worth) and i dont know how old it actually is.

Do you all think its worth grabbing.

Thanks.

Steven.Hi Steven

is it a real #4 or #4-1/2 or does the box have a number starting with 12?
something like 12-004

The 12 series were Stanley's down market "handyman" planes produced at a time when their "proper" planes had already gone down hill

the current Stanley 12- series planes are described by Amazon as "contractor grade"

[spokeshave]

Thank-you all for your replies.

May give it a miss then.....shame, thought i was onto something good. Un-used old stanley plane still in the box, was all excited !!!

I want to gather up a small collection of planes (maybe a #4, a #6 and possibly a block plane) that would be a useful starting point. Old tools have always held an attraction for me so i would like to have good quality older Stanley planes instead of something newer.

I've been to swap meets that have tables full planes, but have always been gun shy simply because i'm still of the un-washed variety so dont know what to look out for. Dont want to spend money on poor quality planes. Obviously plastic handles is a good give-away on sub-standard tools.

What other features should i be looking out for to distinguish good from bad? I know there are a multitude of different Stanley planes, but any little tip will surely help.

Again, thanks for your help.

Steven.

[spokeshave]

Hi Steven

is it a real #4 or #4-1/2 or does the box have a number starting with 12?
something like 12-004

The 12 series were Stanley's down market "handyman" planes produced at a time when their "proper" planes had already gone down hill

the current Stanley 12- series planes are described by Amazon as "contractor grade"

Sorry ian, the ad only had one pic. It was a side on photo of the plane in it's box, couldn't see any numbers but was advertised as a 4 1/2.

Steven.

[lightwood]

Hi eveyone.

Have the opportunity to get hold of an old stanley/bailey no.4 hand plane.

It is in it's original cardboard box and has never been used. Its on a swap and sell website so have no pics to show you but looks in realy good nick and is for sale for $120.

My main concern is that it has bakelite handles (is this a clue to its age and worth) and i dont know how old it actually is.

Do you all think its worth grabbing.

Thanks.

Steven.
Steven,
I was walking through a junk shop on the Mornington Peninsula yesterday, and saw a #4, Hobart made Stanley with hardwood handles, and in the original box with an oil stone wrapped in a cloth.
The box had black plastic tape all over the top, and the plane was almost un-used.
They wanted $60 something for it.
A decent user grade Stanley, made in USA, about 1920 - 1935 would be a much better plane to get. That was around the golden era of Stanley plane making.
Planes worth looking at are the ones Stanley made for other US retailers, Winchester, and Keen Kutter come to mind. They are early Bedro0ck style planes and are pretty good to restore and use.
Just had a look, and one of the QLD tool dealers has a KK 4 1/2 for $135....not bad, compared to a plastic handle AU made plane...no comparison!
Regards,
Peter

[spokeshave]

Thanks Pete,

Had a look at pmcgee's links from his post above, Jim Davey Planes.

He has got a Stanley 4 1/2 refurbished with a sharpened iron ready to go for $140 plus postage.

Would this be a good option?

Steven.

[robbygard]

Thanks Pete,

Had a look at pmcgee's links from his post above, Jim Davey Planes.

He has got a Stanley 4 1/2 refurbished with a sharpened iron ready to go for $140 plus postage.

Would this be a good option?

Steven.


it would be well done and in peak condition .. you still may do better by trying to get one from a tool sale, doing it up yourself and putting on one of the after market blades

you may also find it cheaper to go for a number 3 or number 4 ... still smoothing planes but probably cheaper ... the number 4 is a 2" blade 4½ is 2 and 3/8" .... was there a particular reason you wanted a 4½?

regards david

[ian]

Thanks Pete,

Had a look at pmcgee's links from his post above, Jim Davey Planes.

He has got a Stanley 4 1/2 refurbished with a sharpened iron ready to go for $140 plus postage.

Would this be a good option?

Steven.Hi Steven

It depends on your budget and what you want the plane for.
My personal preference for a first plane is a #4 or #5, IMO the #4-1/2 is too wide to begin with

I know Jim, can I suggest you call or email him and discuss what you are after.
Along with refurbished Stanleys, Jim sells the Woodriver planes which many rate as being as good as planes costing 2 to 3 times as much

[lightwood]

Thanks Pete,

Had a look at pmcgee's links from his post above, Jim Davey Planes.

He has got a Stanley 4 1/2 refurbished with a sharpened iron ready to go for $140 plus postage.

Would this be a good option?

Steven.
Steven,
I use a 4 1/2 occasionally, but not as a smoothing plane, the usual use they are recommended for. (use infill planes for that now.)
Whether the price of any tool, particularly at retail, is about right is a personal thing.
It is also a personal choice if you want to learn how to restore a plane yourself. I very strongly recommend you do a couple of plane restorations, it very quickly will teach you what a plane is all about, and the skills learned are not only applicable to that job.
There are plenty of resources on-line to help you do that.
I regularly have a table at the HTPAA tool sales, and some buyers come with a budget of $25 to spend on the day, others come with $2500 to spend...and they spend it.:B

If a plane is properly tuned up, (and Jim knows his way around planes) and you have the cash to spend...go for it.
It really is your choice. I think the time spent to renovate a plane, at decent tradesman rates, would be much more than the price quoted.

Regards,
Peter

PS just read the post above whilst typing my reply...good point about using a #3...I prefer that size myself.
Next HTPAA tool sale is 14th July

[pmcgee]

I want to gather up a small collection of planes (maybe a #4, a #6 and possibly a block plane) that would be a useful starting point. Old tools have always held an attraction for me so i would like to have good quality older Stanley planes instead of something newer.



Thanks Pete,
Had a look at pmcgee's links from his post above, Jim Davey Planes.
He has got a Stanley 4 1/2 refurbished with a sharpened iron ready to go for $140 plus postage.
Would this be a good option?
Steven.

Here's a few flies to throw in your ointment ... :)

One - I see that a #5 is there at the same price, and depending on what you want to tackle, a #5 might be a little more versatile than a #4.

Also ... are you set up in any way for sharpening yet?

The standard iron won't necessarily last super-long between touching up and then re-honing. I don't want to go far into it - there are millions of written words on the topic of sharpening. :) Of course you can start with the standard and look at an aftermarket iron later ... probably a good idea (if you went via JD) to see if a modern blade can be added without filing the mouth open further.

Here is just one idea - if you get one well-setup plane as a 'gold standard', then you can feel more comfortable about getting another flea-market example and trying to get that setup, as you will have a good idea of the end-point you are aiming for.

Cheers,
Paul

[spokeshave]

.... was there a particular reason you wanted a 4½?

regards david

No reason for wanting a 4 1/2, just using it as a comparison to Jim Davey's as the plane for sale in my original post was a 4 1/2.

I am definitely no expert at using a plane so am wanting to start my collection with 2 or 3 of the most useful planes, i was thinking maybe a 4, a 6 and maybe a block plane or a shoulder plane to clean up tenons.

I have been using some cranky redgum of late that my thicknesser has been struggling with causing much tear-out. A nice sharp hand plane may help me out in these situations.

I am taking on board all of your suggestions an advice and am really appreciative of the time you all have given me. I'm just a beginner at this dark side stuff but at the same time excited to give it a crac

k.

[ian]

Here is just one idea - if you get one well-setup plane as a 'gold standard', then you can feel more comfortable about getting another flea-market example and trying to get that setup, as you will have a good idea of the end-point you are aiming for.

Cheers,
Paul
:whs:

[IanW]

Spokeshave, starting out with a couple of planes is a good plan, I reckon, but not essential. For more years than I care to remember, I struggled along with a #5 only - it had to do every job from jointing to smoothing, & while it managed all of those things remarkably well, all things considered, I can vouch that life is a lot easier with a few more dedicated plane types.

You have to start somewhere, & it seems like a smoother is your first desperate need. For RG, I would think the heavier 4 1/2 to be more suitable, but people are very variable in what they like in smoothers. I don't get on with that size at all, & much prefer the smaller 4, but I work almost exclusively with softer woods, and I'm not as young & fit as I once was. It's the same with larger bench planes, & many folks recommend a #6 as a great all-rounder - they can do a better job of jointing than a shorter plane, so pairing a 6 & 4 1/2 could be a good combo if you are a fit, strapping young bloke :;.

Until you have used planes for a while, you can't really know what suits you, so just make a start with what is as close to the sizes you think you need that you can easily get your hands on. In time, you may decide you want additional sizes or that the ones you have don't suit. If you buy reasonable tools to start with, you shouldn't have much trouble on-selling them for near-enough what you paid, & they will have given you priceless experience, so you should be far from out of pocket.... :U

Cheers,

[spokeshave]

Thanks IanW.

Last year i made a sideboard out of Khaya and had a go with my fathers old Falcon. (it has no size number other than '9 inches' stamped on it). I ran the iron over a sharpening stone and dragged it over a panel for a bit.

It made some nice shavings but i really didnt know what i was doing. I hadn't flattened the sole, cleaned it up or anything.

I think i may 'borrow' this plane again and give it a good once over to introduce myself. I'm sure this is isnt a desirable plane, but it will give me the basics i suppose. Then ill look at purchasing a better tool to refurbish.

Thanks again all.

Steven

http://i1012.photobucket.com/albums/af244/nitro50th/Khaya%20sideboard/_0025.jpg (http://s1012.photobucket.com/user/nitro50th/media/Khaya%20sideboard/_0025.jpg.html)

[Vann]

...with my fathers old Falcon. (it has no size number other than '9 inches' stamped on it).That's Falcons equivilent to a No.4 plane.


I'm sure this is isnt a desirable plane...I would think it would be to an Australian. As far as Stanley clones go, they don't appear to be too bad. Scribbly did a write-up about them on his blog.

Cheers, Vann.

[leelumi]

I know it's hard to get your head around when you're new to this hobby, but a dirty old well-used plane that works, is far better than a nice shiney one that's a dog. The plastic/resin handles date the plane to an era (late 1970s or 1980s) when Stanleys quality control had gone out the window. So the chances of it being a crapper are mucher than for an earlier plane. Maybe there's a reason it never been used....

Cheers, Vann.

(that's not to say you couldn't fluke a good one)
I like this.
got a stanley/baily 4 1/2from the market at 8 bucks.It worked well after being serviced.

[chippy 71]

I like this.
got a stanley/baily 4 1/2from the market at 8 bucks.It worked well after being serviced.

Hey leelumi that was a great price!

I have been on the lookout for a No.5 Stanley that I can fettle myself and seem to just miss out each time:C

Some time back I bought some tools from a chap on the Sunshine Coast and I am blowed if I can remember his name or business name.
I think he was at Little Mountain or there abouts.
Can anyone tell me his name and whether he is still in business?

Chippy71

[crow400]

Hey leelumi that was a great price!

I have been on the lookout for a No.5 Stanley that I can fettle myself and seem to just miss out each time:C

Some time back I bought some tools from a chap on the Sunshine Coast and I am blowed if I can remember his name or business name.
I think he was at Little Mountain or there abouts.
Can anyone tell me his name and whether he is still in business?

Chippy71

Sounds like Tool Exchange - has a good website and very extensive stock.
Bruce

[IanW]

Yep, sounds like the Tool Exchange. (http://www.toolexchange.com.au/Find-Your-Tools-Fast.html)

[chippy 71]

Thank you Bruce, that is the place, I may have to keep looking for a No.5, I was hoping to pick something up for about $50/$100. There have been a couple sold on the Forum in recent weeks for around $50/$60, these of course needed fettling which I can do myself.

Regards,

Colin.

[crow400]

Thank you Bruce, that is the place, I may have to keep looking for a No.5, I was hoping to pick something up for about $50/$100. There have been a couple sold on the Forum in recent weeks for around $50/$60, these of course needed fettling which I can do myself.

Regards,

Colin.
You should be able to find a No. 5 for that price Colin. Keep an eye on Ebay and markets in your area. I found a 5 1/2 in a market for $60, which has become an excellent user after a bit of work and a Veritas blade, as well as a 4 for $30 which needed a more work. It's good to turn an old plane into a good worker - I have my Dad's 4 1/2 (circa 1930) and have enjoyed making it into a really nice plane. I like the extra heft of the 1/2s and the 2 3/8 inch blade.
Be patient and you will find the right one to buy.
Good luck,
Bruce

[NCArcher]

This could be an option
Vintage Record 5 Jack Plane IN Original Working Condition | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VINTAGE-RECORD-5-JACK-PLANE-IN-ORIGINAL-WORKING-CONDITION-/281129970904?pt=AU_ToolsHardwareLocks&hash=item4174a6ecd8)

[pmcgee]

Vintage Stanley Carpentry Plane | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-Stanley-carpentry-plane-/231006680751?pt=AU_ToolsHardwareLocks&hash=item35c91236af&_uhb=1)

Stanley NO 5 Plane Made IN England | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/STANLEY-No-5-PLANE-MADE-IN-ENGLAND-/181165196666?pt=AU_ToolsHardwareLocks&hash=item2a2e49857a&_uhb=1)

Stanley Bailey NO5 Jack Plane Hand Plane Made IN England | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Stanley-Bailey-No5-Jack-Plane-Hand-Plane-Made-in-England-/290940780608?pt=AU_ToolsHardwareLocks&hash=item43bd6c0040&_uhb=1)

...

Stanley NO 5 Plane Made IN England | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/STANLEY-No-5-PLANE-MADE-IN-ENGLAND-/181165196666?pt=AU_ToolsHardwareLocks&hash=item2a2e49857a&_uhb=1)

Ohio Tool 05 Plane Vintage Shop Tool Parts Repair Stanley Blade I | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ohio-Tool-05-Plane-Vintage-Shop-Tool-Parts-Repair-Stanley-Blade-I-/380656421941?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a0e40c35&_uhb=1)

[chippy 71]

This could be an option
Vintage Record 5 Jack Plane IN Original Working Condition | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VINTAGE-RECORD-5-JACK-PLANE-IN-ORIGINAL-WORKING-CONDITION-/281129970904?pt=AU_ToolsHardwareLocks&hash=item4174a6ecd8)

Many thanks for the link NCArcher, I have had a look and put in a bid, I shall see what happens.

Regards,

Colin.

[chippy 71]

You should be able to find a No. 5 for that price Colin. Keep an eye on Ebay and markets in your area. I found a 5 1/2 in a market for $60, which has become an excellent user after a bit of work and a Veritas blade, as well as a 4 for $30 which needed a more work. It's good to turn an old plane into a good worker - I have my Dad's 4 1/2 (circa 1930) and have enjoyed making it into a really nice plane. I like the extra heft of the 1/2s and the 2 3/8 inch blade.
Be patient and you will find the right one to buy.
Good luck,
Bruce

After seeing what has sold in recent weeks I think you are right Bruce. I am also leaning towards a 5 1/2 for exactly the same reasons you gave for the 4 1/2, the extra weight and width does make a difference.
I am not in a hurry so I can wait a while.

Regards,

Colin.

[chippy 71]

Vintage Stanley Carpentry Plane | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-Stanley-carpentry-plane-/231006680751?pt=AU_ToolsHardwareLocks&hash=item35c91236af&_uhb=1)

Stanley NO 5 Plane Made IN England | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/STANLEY-No-5-PLANE-MADE-IN-ENGLAND-/181165196666?pt=AU_ToolsHardwareLocks&hash=item2a2e49857a&_uhb=1)

Stanley Bailey NO5 Jack Plane Hand Plane Made IN England | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Stanley-Bailey-No5-Jack-Plane-Hand-Plane-Made-in-England-/290940780608?pt=AU_ToolsHardwareLocks&hash=item43bd6c0040&_uhb=1)

...

Stanley NO 5 Plane Made IN England | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/STANLEY-No-5-PLANE-MADE-IN-ENGLAND-/181165196666?pt=AU_ToolsHardwareLocks&hash=item2a2e49857a&_uhb=1)

Ohio Tool 05 Plane Vintage Shop Tool Parts Repair Stanley Blade I | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ohio-Tool-05-Plane-Vintage-Shop-Tool-Parts-Repair-Stanley-Blade-I-/380656421941?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58a0e40c35&_uhb=1)

Many thanks for the links Paul, I will be keeping an eye on a couple of them. The freight out of the US is pretty rough, the same as the cost of the plane in some cases!

Colin.

[clear out]

I have been using some cranky redgum of late that my thicknesser has been struggling with causing much tear-out. A nice sharp hand plane may help me out in these situations.


If you are serious about hand planing to fix this tear out problem you need a plane with a steep angle and a heavy iron.
A Norris or Spiers would work or an HNT Gordon smoother is a current Oz made plane designed to do just this. If the stuff is too cranky the blade can be reversed and you have a scraper which will remove any tear out from any timber.
H.