What timber should I use in my strip build Kayak

[scottski]

Hi guys, Very new to this so here goes.
I am building two strip build kayaks. One for my daughter and one for me.
I was planning on using Australia red ceder cut from old skirting boards and doors. What is a good light coloured and light weight Australian timber to use as a highlight.

What other timbers would you recomend if I run out of Oz Ceder on the first kayak .

The kayaks are an expidition single and a 14ft little Auk from Guillemont.

Regards Scott

[Slavo]

Scott, as far as I know western red cedar is one of the best timbers available in Aust for strip built kayaks. I would be tempted to use WRC for the bul of the strips and then use the Aust Red Cedar for highlights. there have been a couple of people who have built guillemont kayaks (do as search on the picture forum).
Good luck with it

[bitingmidge]

I'm inclined to agree with Slavo. Red Cedar would certainly do the trick if you can get enough of it, but few other Aus timbers would even come close in the lightness stakes.

I'd think about a palette including Balsa, Surian Cedar, Western Red Cedar and Paulownia, none of which unfortunately are Australian, but all are light weight.

Cheers,

P

[scottski]

Scott, as far as I know western red cedar is one of the best timbers available in Aust for strip built kayaks. I would be tempted to use WRC for the bul of the strips and then use the Aust Red Cedar for highlights. there have been a couple of people who have built guillemont kayaks (do as search on the picture forum).
Good luck with it
I was hoping to keep it to Australian native timbers if possible. If not, does the western red ceder come in pale to white colour ?

[MathewA]

Red cedar is the #1 choice of strip canoe and kayak builders up here in Canada. People have tried other woods but nothing comes close to the properties of red cedar's light weight, resistance to rot, and oil content. Or it's cancer causing ability so wear a respirator.

[bitingmidge]

I was hoping to keep it to Australian native timbers if possible. If not, does the western red ceder come in pale to white colour ?
Nope, but Paulownia is, and is also about half way between WRC and Balsa in weight.

P
:D

[MathewA]

A contrasting wood used up here is Yellow cedar which isn't actually a cedar but a cypress. Not sure how hard it would be to find in Aus.

[MathewA]

Not to high jack but... That was funny:D.

It's 11pm up here and I get this phone call. First thing I think is oh my god someones in big trouble so I race to the phone.

On the other end is someone with a foreign accent. Sayin, Gday, its Scott. Here I'm thinking WHO!:confused::confused:

So I say Scott who?

He says You just replied on the forum to me about the kayak.

Holy crap!:eek: I'm thinking, that was fast. I only just replied. You guys don't waste anytime.
Too funny

[Harry Atkinson]

I have built a canoe out of WRC and it came out great, I used knots and had no problems except that I had a lot of sanding rather than planing. I used a stripe out of pine (baltic) but any pine would look good.

I have built a Guillemott kayak out of King Billy Pine, the boat came out at around 18kg with one layer of 6 0z fibreglass. Also think about Huon Pine, though Huon is a bit heavier.
Cheers Harry (Tasmania)

[Ecca]

Ihave have built 2 Wee Lassie canoes out of King Billy pine with Huon pine feature strips. total weight with king billy double paddle and real wicker seat 15 kg. King billy is probably just a bit heavier and harder than western red cedar but only just. The amount of huon that you would use is minimal and would not be a significant weight problem.
have fun Ecca

[The Log Hog]

Western red cedar!!!! what else?? If you want a fine looking boat-canoe this is what you want to use, also it is the best choice around the water and has the best finshed look. It steams very well and is available from most small mills in the lower mainland. Be sure you have an old log with tight grain and keep your strips a little on the thicker side... I have milled a few packagess for smal boat builders and you need good clear wood'on the coast you can get that with cedar... Some guys alternate there strips light and dark to give a nicer finshed look. If you cant find the wood you need mail me and i will cut it for you.......The Log Hog [email protected]

[markharrison]

Western red cedar!!!! what else?? If you want a fine looking boat-canoe this is what you want to use, also it is the best choice around the water and has the best finshed look. It steams very well and is available from most small mills in the lower mainland. Be sure you have an old log with tight grain and keep your strips a little on the thicker side... I have milled a few packagess for smal boat builders and you need good clear wood'on the coast you can get that with cedar... Some guys alternate there strips light and dark to give a nicer finshed look. If you cant find the wood you need mail me and i will cut it for you.......The Log Hog [email protected]

I'm pleased to see that you are contributing with your knowledge of timber in addition to your advertisements for your services.

However, there is something that seems to have escaped your attention. This board is in Australia and the majority (though definitely not all) of members are based here. WRC, as it happens, is available here in quantity from most timber yards. Though the quality (available here at least) has deteriorated noticably.

[sinjin1111]

Scotti when i did fancy laminations useing Aust red cedar. The white timber i used was either Silver Ash or Quandong. Quandong being much lighter.
Red cedar on its own its something very special. I would only use the light strips for combing etc. For me its way nicer then WRC. hardly compareable really accept for weight.
Great choice in timber if you can get some nice clear boards.
Sinjin

[ribot]

Huon (white) pine was used a lot in boat building and would provide a real contrast to the red cedar.

[Boatmik]

I have used Huon where it was being varnished, but has anyone any experience about how it epoxy takes to it for gluing, coating and fibreglassing, which are all necessary for strip built boats?

Cheers
Michael Storer

[markharrison]

I can't see why there should be any problem with epoxy and Huon Pine. Some oily timbers (such as Teak) are said to require pre-wiping with a solvent before gluing. The solvent usually mentioned is Acetone.

Spotted Gum is an another example though I've never bothered the couple of times I used it and I've not had any delaminations. That said, I wasn't building a boat and I wasn't using epoxy.

[scottyk]

Epoxy takes well to huon in my experience.
As said in previous,Teak is the one to watch for in that respect.
Scotty

[Wild Dingo]

Im aiming for Kiri (Pauliwania) for the hulls and feature strip of sheoak rubbing strips and keelson Jarrah and breasthooks in either banksia or if I can get to ScottyK some Huon maybe Sassafras... Ive had a bloke reckon Im adding too much weight using the sheoak and jarrah but when you consider the weight of the hull and the small quanity of sheoak and jarrah personally I think it will be irrelevent and the beauty will be astounding

Worth thinking about?

[Ramps]

I have been doing a lot of research recently WRT creating a kayak and have also decided on Paulownia ... cost over western Red cedar mainly as I think WRC is by far more attractive and still unsure about its compression strength (resistance to puncture in the case of a canoe/kayak). I'm due to start in the next coupla weeks.

I'd be very keen to hear how you're getting Dingo. Strengths/ weaknesses of timbers etc.

Ramps

[Wild Dingo]

Gidday there Ramps... just down the road in Bunbury eh? :cool: maybe there could be an elbow bending session down the track ;)

Anyway... havent started yet since Im here and there like a banshee on steroids most times and Im about to buggar of back to the great northland where its noce and hot to work down a hole for a crust and thus feed my tool and boat addictions :cool: oh and the mob too!! :rolleyes:

I didnt know theres a local supplier of Kiri in Bunbury!! WHAHOOOOOO!! That makes it so much bloody easier! :cool: I know theres a bloke in Rockingham and a Kiri farm near Mandurah but wasnt aware of one here so in the great Aussie tradition I will scream a hearty... bloody bewdy

Ahem... there was a bloke I used to email a lot a few years back in Freo who was into proas and had built a bloody great one from Kiri and was more than impressed with the result light strong and floats beautifully called it Harigami I think... anyway it was a while back another fella I spoke with was building a wharram cat out of it in Queensland somewhere strip planking instead of the ply on the hulls reckoned he would save a shyteload on weight which for his cruising purposes he reckoned would be the ducks knuts... these are blokes that have actually built their boats and boats that are a lot larger than a canoe with no problems and only good words to say about it... other than they found the timber boreing so have painted the hulls :rolleyes:

Anyway mate Im game for a meet up brag waffle yarn joke and elbow bending session!! :D :cool: but will have to be in 2 weeks time plane to catch at 6pm ish

See yer all topside!

[Ramps]

Whao Dingo, lets not get too excited.
I've lived in numerous places across Oz to call anywhere within a hundred k's or so local ... the Rockingham crew was the guys I was referring to.
But yes I'll have to bring some beer over to help the epoxy and whatever else flow when you return,
I was looking at staining the hull before epoxy but am looking into a stain in the spar varnish instead?? more research req ... cos as you said the grain isn't anything like WRC ... a few strips of WRC might be all it takes to break the stark white wood look of the Kiri ... any ideas welcome.

[Greg Ward]

Australian red cedar used to be used for surf boats... but anyway, plenty of Aussie red cedar available from Mal at Boutique Timbers if you want. Come to the sydney www show 2 June, he has the largest timber display there outside and you can select as much as you want.
Regarding different colours, white beech is a commonly used timber for boat deckings and would be OK if used as a strip, but it is heavier than red cedar.
Regards
Greg

[Wild Dingo]

Sigh... well I guess I will have to control my enthusiasm before you buggar of the forum like the Canadian sheila in Collie did awhile back who needed some timber and to have some other timbers thicknessed again I did as I just did and offered to help her... but havent heard from her since :( seems for some reason she either paniced that someone close may actually turn up on her door to help her either that or she got freeked that someone may actually want to meet up have a chinwag and actually help... ah well whatever :rolleyes:

My trip back to the mine has been delayed a few days... but this is no never mind... yes the WRC would break the dullsville color of the Kiri quite well as would a strip of Sheoak or Jarrah... if you then think the weight of the hardwood will be an issue Id simply say to hell with it 2 strips of Jarrah is not gonna add an ants phart to the overall weight in a 1/4in x 1in stripped planked boat

What Ive also seen over the years of searching looking and researching boats is that some get quite what I call annul over decorating their canoes kayaks and such... you can get the hull made to just before the laying of the cloth and then make a design of whatever in small peices of different colored timbers and if you are careful (ala annul) cut into the hull and glue the peices in on either side... what ive seen is a canoe with a circle cutout with a mountain scene and a grizzly bear in the forground another with an eagle and another with an indian head... these are then fibreglassed along with the rest of the boat and it looks bloody amazing... Ive also seen the stems left long and bulked up by scarfing more timber to it and then carved again this looked amazing... sorta like a figurehead... using different timbers makes the picture or stem feature stand out but again if weight is to be considered I guess if your after a light weight canoe then kiri with a single feature strip would do... otherwise the amount of timber were talking about is minimal and wouldnt have a huge effect overall to the weight

Cheers

[Ramps]

Sigh... well I guess I will have to control my enthusiasm before you buggar of the forum like the Canadian sheila in Collie did awhile back who needed some timber and to have some other timbers thicknessed again I did as I just did and offered to help her... but havent heard from her since :(

... I'd be nervous too :D

Not about to go anywhere in a real hurry. Been lurking in the boards for a number of yrs but forgot my past login detailswith a change of computer (duhh) so created a new ID.

Think you're right a coupla strips of Jarrah aint gonna add much to the weight of the whole thing but I do have a few cupped 3/4" planks of WRC that are looking for a purpose in life ... stripping will renove the cupping ... and grain is the right dirction for the strips.

Printing the forms at the moment but things will be on hold for the next 5 wks with the out-laws over from east ... still wouldn't mind catching up over that period of time .... when are you in ... PM if you like

[Boatmik]

A few years ago I did a strip canoe in BALSA which is a similar colour to Kirri.

I just flipped the colour scheme around.

With a cedar hull use white/yellow timbers for gunwale and inwale, stems and external keel

With a balsa or Kirri hull use darker or red timbers for the trim.

Looks Fantastic.

Have a look at the pics at
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~storerm/Balsacanoe/Balsacanoe.html (http://members.ozemail.com.au/%7Estorerm/Balsacanoe/Balsacanoe.html)

MIK

[Ramps]

Thanks MIK
I had seen your work, love it... maybe that's where I got some my ideas from, I've been looking at so many sites for ideas that I dont' think I have an original one left in my head.
I see you laminated the Jarrah stems. What thickness (or should I thinness) did you bring your laminations down to? and did the Jarrah bend well? ... another worry that's been on my mind ... have no end of Jarrah supplies and was looking at it for the stems and the spreader.
Did the oregon add anythin to the features or was it just a blend in, light weight, stronger than balsa decision?

[Boatmik]

Howdy Ramps,

I don't have a single idea of my own either! :-) But some of the mixes of stuff I can claim some responsibility for.

Sorry - I had better check my website - the external keel was jarrah and the external stems were the Australian Cedar. Internal stems were Oregon.

From memory the internal and external stems had to be pretty thin - maybe 3mm to make the bend.

At the time some lovely light fine grain oregon was available so I used it for the centre spreader and its ends - and certainly the blend in aspect was important. All the longitudinals - the gunwales, inwales external stems and keelson were all red timbers - and I didn't want a red timber cutting across the middle of the boat.

Best Regards
Michael Storer

[Ramps]

Ta Mik
I must have read more into it than was there. I'll strip the Jarrah down to 3 mm and give a go before I have to rely on it to perform ... might do the external stems in Jarrah and the internal stems in WRC.
I'll post on a new thread when I've really got something to show. No doubt I';; be back on line asking for help in the near future.
Thanks for your help.

[bitofascallywag]

now hang on a minute you bunch of billygoats,i hear that there may be a supplier of good old tasmanian pine over the west soon,it is said the supplier if he can get freight prices right will be no other than the wild puppy milk tooth bugger over west.huon pine is beautiful and if you get the fiddleback or the pimply looking gear which the proper name escapes me at the moment............swishoo de diddly o sort of gear...the pine down here of course comes with a worm free guarantee the life of the timber..........king billy is the gear if you can get it....and drool fellows cause guess who has one or two,also guess who is the proud owner of at the moment a sunken barge???????made of this huon stuff???anyway google this i guess for a better description,as i wont because we still start fires with it down here...........lagarostrobos franklinii and of course the old athrotaxis selagnoides...........

[rowie]

lucky bugger