Metal lathe.

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Hi, I am new here and didn't know where to post this so moderators if you need to move it please do.
I am 13 and have been wood turning for a while now and would like to try a metal lathe, this will be my first one and my dad is sorta broke and I want this to be my investment anyway, so what would give me the most bang for my buck? I know nothing about metal lathes but I have done some looking and was thinking about the al-250g, does anyone own one or know someone that dose? And I am not rich, I really don't want to spend more the 3000 including all the tools and to start with I would like it to not be much more the 2000.

[DarBee]

Welcome to the forum Alaks. You will find many here who are older and wiser than even I. You will also find them VERY HELPFUL. This is the only forum that I belong to and I think they are terrific.

I have 250G - there are several in this forum. I get the impression that most of the 'oriental' lathes are quite sound, but the assembly can be sometimes hit-n-miss. There are certainly a few issues with mine, but nothing that cannot be fixed.

How to buy one? Well, I'd recommend looking for a 2nd hand one. I found mine by chance as it had been returned to the H&F centre aisle following transit damage (to the motor only). I collected it - with several bits of included hardware that would usually be 'optional' - for about 1/2 price of the new one. A small geared-head lathe would seem to provide best flexibility.

But let's see what some of the other old-n-bolds recommend.

Good luck, Daryl

[burraboy]

Enroll at your local TAFE for a basic course. Turning 1 in the National Metal Modules would be a good start. Give you something to think about.

[Ben Dono]

Good on you Alaks!
You sound a lot like me when I was your age!

I cannot advise you on the 250G as I do not own that one but your going to really enjoy metal lathes!

Now this is not a discouragement, just some advice. They are a difficult machine to self teach. You have to start somewhere though and a level headed 13yr old can start out.

Metal lathes are remarkably unforgiving. A class at tafe is a wise option.

Google "mrpete222" on YouTube. He was a high school teacher in metal work and has over 100 videos on running lathes and mills. He is a great teacher and has a life time of experience getting people started.

There are a lot of good books out there as well.

This sounds like a great project you and your dad can share together!
Everyone here is very helpful here and they got me started out that long ago.

Envite your Dad to join the metal work forum too.
Your going to be sorting through a lot of information soon and have many questions.
Best of luck!
Ben

[Grahame Collins]

Enroll at your local TAFE for a basic course. Turning 1 in the National Metal Modules would be a good start. Give you something to think about.
Hi Alaks,
Sorry, but I doubt that Tafe will enrol you in the course until you are 16. To pick up the knowledge you need Hercus and South bend have some excellent primer books(second hand) which are relatively cheap.

There are other considerations however. For instance , a lathe can be a pretty hefty piece of machinery and can present problems if your family wants to move house.Your desired AL 250 would run about 200kgs and would likely be the heaviest item in your household to move.

Also if your family doesn't not own the house is the landlord happy about mounting the lathe,as some need anchoring to the concrete floor. I too would opt for a good second hand one ,as they do come up in the big centers one regular basis.Trading post and Gumtree are good places to start.Indeed a second hand lathe will have many extras and if an Asian lathe will have many of the inherent problems already sorted.I'm thinking of of deceased estate type machines here in particular model railway hobbyists.

Above all, take your time, think about what turning you may want to do, as this will indicate what bore size you should opt for.


If you reply back with some of the above information the guys here will certainly be able to advise you in most aspects of the tooling you will require for the types of turning you may wish to pursue,as well as much more.

Grahame

[Ben Dono]

What about a seig mini lathe? I know most people with big sheds and big budgets don't rate them well, but there is a huge following on line for them and with the right tooling, they appear quite capable!?
It might be a good lathe to "cut your teeth" on and will always be useful no matter how big your workshop gets.
There is a South American guy on YouTube that is a huge fan of using non-indexable carbide tooling with them.

It would be more user friendly for a 13yr old to start out with and being a rust prone country, it would be easy to make a plywood box cover and dehumidifier to keep the rust away.
I agree that tafe probably won't let a 13yr old register for classes, but you might be lucky and they will let you sit up the back of the class.


Alaks sound like he will probably spend months in front of the lathe and I doubt the most dedicated dad could be standing right next to him every time.

Agh... Now I want a Seig lathe as well....

[nearnexus]

Good move getting a metal lathe.

If you or your relatives have no experience with metal lathes then you are vulnerable to getting caught with a worn out machine if you buy secondhand.

So be careful, and maybe if a member of the forum was nearby they may be able to give an opinion on a machine - if you ask.

Buying new you don't have this issue, and it comes down to dollars and features.

The AL250g would be a good size for starting with and is probably capable of most things that you would want to do.

Don't buy some great monster of a lathe just because it's cheap. I only have a 10 x 18 Chinese lathe and I've never been caught short with it for the type of jobs I do.

Search for "Text book of Turning pdf" and you can freely download the old but extremely good book by Hercus. This will teach you everything you need to know to get started.

Cheers

Rob

[Bryan]

First, please google 'lathe safety'.

[welder]

I bought my first lathe when I was 13 it was a seig mini lathe they are great to learn on and would recommend one of those .

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Good on you Alaks!
You sound a lot like me when I was your age!

I cannot advise you on the 250G as I do not own that one but your going to really enjoy metal lathes!

Now this is not a discouragement, just some advice. They are a difficult machine to self teach. You have to start somewhere though and a level headed 13yr old can start out.

Metal lathes are remarkably unforgiving. A class at tafe is a wise option.

Google "mrpete222" on YouTube. He was a high school teacher in metal work and has over 100 videos on running lathes and mills. He is a great teacher and has a life time of experience getting people started.

There are a lot of good books out there as well.

This sounds like a great project you and your dad can share together!
Everyone here is very helpful here and they got me started out that long ago.

Envite your Dad to join the metal work forum too.
Your going to be sorting through a lot of information soon and have many questions.
Best of luck!
Ben

I can't go to tafe right now but I am really looking forward to doing year 11 and 12 and thanks for the youtube channel that will help a lot, my dad is really good with things like this, (he got me into woodworking) he is making and ornamental turning lathe from scratch right now and he regularly reads this forum and I will let him use my account if there is anything he would like to post.

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Hi Alaks,
Sorry, but I doubt that Tafe will enrol you in the course until you are 16. To pick up the knowledge you need Hercus and South bend have some excellent primer books(second hand) which are relatively cheap.

There are other considerations however. For instance , a lathe can be a pretty hefty piece of machinery and can present problems if your family wants to move house.Your desired AL 250 would run about 200kgs and would likely be the heaviest item in your household to move.

Also if your family doesn't not own the house is the landlord happy about mounting the lathe,as some need anchoring to the concrete floor. I too would opt for a good second hand one ,as they do come up in the big centers one regular basis.Trading post and Gumtree are good places to start.Indeed a second hand lathe will have many extras and if an Asian lathe will have many of the inherent problems already sorted.I'm thinking of of deceased estate type machines here in particular model railway hobbyists.

Above all, take your time, think about what turning you may want to do, as this will indicate what bore size you should opt for.


If you reply back with some of the above information the guys here will certainly be able to advise you in most aspects of the tooling you will require for the types of turning you may wish to pursue,as well as much more.

Grahame

The "hefty piece of machinery is a bit of a problem but 200-280 should be okay, I know some strong guys, as for what I am turning I would like to try making a sterling engine a steam engine maybe a combustion engine, okay I am pretty interested in engines and things of the sort (I want to be a mechanical engineer) so a lot of that stuff, I also have a RC car that I would make parts for and projects like that, will a smaller lathe do that?

Thanks for all the replies and anyone who replies back.

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Sorry this was a repeat moderators please delete it.

[welder]

Sounds like a smaller lathe will suit your needs ,Have a look at this site for some more information mini-lathe.com home page (http://www.mini-lathe.com/)

[wheelinround]

Alex its commendable what your doing at your age as has been said before wish I had and not waited till I was 57.

Not knowing where you are in QLD here's an ideal modlers lathe but which has the possibilities to do much more yes its old but they are solid I have just bought one recently and this one has lots to go along with it Metal Lathe | Miscellaneous Goods | Gumtree Australia Brisbane South East - Cannon Hill (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/cannon-hill/miscellaneous-goods/metal-lathe/1020428613)

[wheelinround]

I can't go to tafe right now but I am really looking forward to doing year 11 and 12 and thanks for the youtube channel that will help a lot, my dad is really good with things like this, (he got me into woodworking) he is making and ornamental turning lathe from scratch right now and he regularly reads this forum and I will let him use my account if there is anything he would like to post.

I just read this Alaks guess what caught my attention :rolleyes: The fact your dad's making an Ornamental lathe from scratch. I am also into OT so who's your dad on here time he came clean I think if he's a member cause you can't make an OT lathe without a machine set u to do the turning and milling required unless he has that all maybe via work or friends.

No don't let him use your account make him sign up for his own. I hope he's been checking out the Ornamental Turning on this forum.

[Alaks McGREGORE]

I just read this Alaks guess what caught my attention :rolleyes: The fact your dad's making an Ornamental lathe from scratch. I am also into OT so who's your dad on here time he came clean I think if he's a member cause you can't make an OT lathe without a machine set u to do the turning and milling required unless he has that all maybe via work or friends.

No don't let him use your account make him sign up for his own. I hope he's been checking out the Ornamental Turning on this forum.

No one told my dad that, he is on his second one now, he does not make his lathes like most people, he does it much different so he doesn't need anything like that, all he has is a drill angle grinder and very little time, that is why he isn't on here now, although he did bye a set of gears of ebay for it, and don't ask for plans it's all in my dads head and a little in mine, he is also building a rose engine lathe into it but he wont have a rocking headstock like most people don't ask me exactly how he is going to do it I only have a rough outline of how he is making it.

[wheelinround]

No one told my dad that, he is on his second one now, he does not make his lathes like most people, he does it much different so he doesn't need anything like that, all he has is a drill angle grinder and very little time, that is why he isn't on here now, although he did bye a set of gears of ebay for it, and don't ask for plans it's all in my dads head and a little in mine, he is also building a rose engine lathe into it but he wont have a rocking headstock like most people don't ask me exactly how he is going to do it I only have a rough outline of how he is making it.

Even more intrigued in what he's up to now. A Rose Engine too eh well good on him mine is still sitting on the shelf 4 yrs now and no closer to being finished.
Is he a member of The Queensland DOT Decorative Ornamental Turners group which meets through the Queensland Woodworkers club?

He sure sound like an interesting bloke.

[Alaks McGREGORE]

He is interesting but he is a full time dad while my mum works and I am home schooled so he doesn't have much time for building and not for forums so he isn't part of any groups, he just makes it up himself from ideas of the internet but nothing he makes is like anything that is anywhere when it comes to OT.

[Steamwhisperer]

He is interesting but he is a full time dad while my mum works and I am home schooled so he doesn't have much time for building and not for forums so he isn't part of any groups, he just makes it up himself from ideas of the internet but nothing he makes is like anything that is anywhere when it comes to OT.

Hi Aleks,
welcome to the forum and well done on the decision to do metal work,
Just tell your dad that instead of getting ideas of the internet, use this forum instead :D

Phil

ps he sounds like my dad, can do great stuff, but doesn't think it is worth showing anyone :((

[Machtool]

Here was I thinking Andre was a bit of a freak. Now we have a 13 year old that wants to buy a metal lathe, and has a budget to do it. :U

Congratulations Alaks.

More inportantly. I noticed you mention home schooled, in post # 18. You owe your mother & father a big hug tonight.

I went back and re-read your first post. That was as well structured and grammically correct as the rest of us do. Kuddo's for that, and a compliment to your parents.

Watch the Ebay thread, if there is a lathe for sale, these guys will find it.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/ebay-other-auctions-metalwork-stuff-149643/ (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/ebay-other-auctions-metalwork-stuff-149643/)

Pay some attention to the safety messages, you are all too young to have some thing ripped off. But its not that bad, as long as you are aware of the dangers.

I wish you well.

Phil.

[Alaks McGREGORE]

[QUOTE= More inportantly. I noticed you mention home schooled, in post # 18. You owe your mother & father a big hug tonight.

I went back and re-read your first post. That was as well structured and grammically correct as the rest of us do. Kuddo's for that, and a compliment to your [\QUOTE]

Thanks I am actually pretty bad at English but I can do writing fine, I am trying my hand at writing a book and it's only cause there is no other way of getting ideas out of your head, but that can't all go to my dad, I used to use a forum with a grammar nazie, that helped me a lot.
Anyway, back to the task at hand, is there like a chart or something that says how big a lathe will turn what diameter metal? I know it will be depend on the lathe a lot but as a really rough estimation?
Ps, the quote thingy broke, and if you like when my dad has finished the lathe (he is taking his time though) I will ether make him do a thread or at the very least I will make one with lots of pics and I will get him to answer questions if I can.

[Bryan]

Alaks, the 'quote thing broke' because you accidentally deleted a bracket.

Every lathe is defined first and foremost by it's 'envelope'. You will hear lathes described as 10 x 24 or 14 x 40. Those numbers refer to the maximum diameter ('swing') and length ('between centres') it can theoretically accept. I say theoretically because you wouldn't try to turn a workpiece 10 inches by 24 (250mm x 600mm) in a 10 x 24 lathe. It would be too heavy. But you could turn a shaft 600 long, OR a flywheel 250 across.

PS: Be careful about swing and centre height. The former is diameter, the latter radius, but some people confuse them.

[pipeclay]

In regards to knowing how big of a piece of material whether that be length or diameter a lathe can accommodate,for a new lathe that will be given in the lathe specs,diameter will be usually given as swing either over the bed and or carriage,length will be the between centres measurement but generally does not take into consideration chucks or face plates.

If looking at 2nd hand lathes you would have to physically check the dimensions yourself or ask the seller,if the lathe was a more common machine a search of the internet with lathe model/type should produce results.

[Michael G]

Every lathe is defined first and foremost by it's 'envelope'. You will hear lathes described as 10 x 24 or 14 x 40. Those numbers refer to the maximum diameter ('swing') and length ('between centres') it can theoretically accept. I say theoretically because you wouldn't try to turn a workpiece 10 inches by 24 (250mm x 600mm) in a 10 x 24 lathe. It would be too heavy. But you could turn a shaft 600 long, OR a flywheel 250 across.

PS: Be careful about swing and centre height. The former is diameter, the latter radius, but some people confuse them.

As a general guide if a lathe has a 10" swing then although it can do that diameter part, you really want to aim for most of your work (say 75 to 80%) being around half that - say 5 to 6" diameter (125 to 150mm) or less. While you can do up to the envelope size it gets awkward. No such problems with length.

Michael

[Alaks McGREGORE]

As a general guide if a lathe has a 10" swing then although it can do that diameter part, you really want to aim for most of your work (say 75 to 80%) being around half that - say 5 to 6" diameter (125 to 150mm) or less. While you can do up to the envelope size it gets awkward. No such problems with length.

Michael

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted.

[Alaks McGREGORE]

I am posting a thread to somewhere showing my lathes off, well, technically dads lathes.

[j.ashburn]

Alex its commendable what your doing at your age as has been said before wish I had and not waited till I was 57.

Not knowing where you are in QLD here's an ideal modlers lathe but which has the possibilities to do much more yes its old but they are solid I have just bought one recently and this one has lots to go along with it Metal Lathe | Miscellaneous Goods | Gumtree Australia Brisbane South East - Cannon Hill (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/cannon-hill/miscellaneous-goods/metal-lathe/1020428613)Hi there welcome to the metal world,I recon you should go for that Hercus listed here seems like its well equipped and would think a deceased family member.Unfortunately in days past Dad's never wanted their kids to toil in amongst grease dirt and swarf.When death or infirmity catches up most family members do not or have not the knowledge of these items or best disposal.I say from the look of this gear go for it you never know how you present your case as a youngster what deal you may gain.Make your mistakes on an older machine aquire and hone your skills and learn that machines misgivings, then move on to better later on.Most of the metal workers here did their training on these Hercus lathes and still are capable of good work.Go for it laddie.

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Hi there welcome to the metal world,I recon you should go for that Hercus listed here seems like its well equipped and would think a deceased family member.Unfortunately in days past Dad's never wanted their kids to toil in amongst grease dirt and swarf.When death or infirmity catches up most family members do not or have not the knowledge of these items or best disposal.I say from the look of this gear go for it you never know how you present your case as a youngster what deal you may gain.Make your mistakes on an older machine aquire and hone your skills and learn that machines misgivings, then move on to better later on.Most of the metal workers here did their training on these Hercus lathes and still are capable of good work.Go for it laddie.

Thanks, I have shot them an email and see if they get back to me.
On another and completely unrelated note how do you upload pics from a phone?

[wheelinround]

Hi there welcome to the metal world,I recon you should go for that Hercus listed here seems like its well equipped and would think a deceased family member.Unfortunately in days past Dad's never wanted their kids to toil in amongst grease dirt and swarf.When death or infirmity catches up most family members do not or have not the knowledge of these items or best disposal.I say from the look of this gear go for it you never know how you present your case as a youngster what deal you may gain.Make your mistakes on an older machine aquire and hone your skills and learn that machines misgivings, then move on to better later on.Most of the metal workers here did their training on these Hercus lathes and still are capable of good work.Go for it laddie.


Ah its a Myford not a Hercus.

[wheelinround]

Thanks, I have shot them an email and see if they get back to me.
On another and completely unrelated note how do you upload pics from a phone?

Your 13 you should be telling us how to do this LOL

Easiest way download to the PC etc and then upload.

[Ueee]

On another and completely unrelated note how do you upload pics from a phone?

When you work it out can you tell me?

Welcome Aleks,
Good to see you getting in young. I too was home schooled, loved it, but it does do things to ones social life that some would consider bad (not me, i'm a hermit and i like it....)

The only extra advice i can add is to get something belt driven. These machines are far more forgiving than geared machines as you can adjust the belt tension so that if you do have a crash the belt slips rather than something else giving way. I was saved today by my belt slipping when i got a bit over exuberant with a parting tool.
The other thing is to buy decent cutting tools, etc. If and when time comes to move on to another lathe you can keep all the decent quality gear you have bought, and use it with the new lathe. Many of the guys have tangential tool holders from eccentric engineering(Diamond Tool Holder (http://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=17)), they are a bit of an outlay but HSS bits are much much cheaper than going down the path of carbide inserts, and they take the trouble out of sharpening. I still have to get me one....

Cheers
Ewan

[j.ashburn]

Ah its a Myford not a Hercus.
My apologies I did edit it when I realised and the internet dropped out sent the orig message not the edited 1my mistake there is a Hercus on gumtree and got mixed upi same deal but was 1500 dollars from memory.Apologies all around John.

[Ueee]

There is this one Lathe Hercus 240v | Miscellaneous Goods | Gumtree Australia Brisbane South West - Wacol (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/wacol/miscellaneous-goods/lathe-hercus-240v/1016252143) but doesn't have any tooling, the $1500 one is in sheppaton VIC.

[Alaks McGREGORE]

When you work it out can you tell me?

Welcome Aleks,
Good to see you getting in young. I too was home schooled, loved it, but it does do things to ones social life that some would consider bad (not me, i'm a hermit and i like it....)

The only extra advice i can add is to get something belt driven. These machines are far more forgiving than geared machines as you can adjust the belt tension so that if you do have a crash the belt slips rather than something else giving way. I was saved today by my belt slipping when i got a bit over exuberant with a parting tool.
The other thing is to buy decent cutting tools, etc. If and when time comes to move on to another lathe you can keep all the decent quality gear you have bought, and use it with the new lathe. Many of the guys have tangential tool holders from eccentric engineering(Diamond Tool Holder (http://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=17)), they are a bit of an outlay but HSS bits are much much cheaper than going down the path of carbide inserts, and they take the trouble out of sharpening. I still have to get me one....

Cheers
Ewan

I fingered out how to do it, you need to go down to the bottom of the page and hit "go to full site".
And yes home school is hell for a social life, that is one of the reasons I am looking so forward to Tafe.

[Piers037]

I second Ewan's suggestion of a diamond tool holder. I use mine for 90% of the work I do. The thing I really liked starting out was that I did not need to become an expert in sharpening tool bits. Just clamp it in the jig and run it over the grinder and you have a perfectly sharpened tool every time.

Cheers

Piers

[bwal74]

Not sure if you've seen this one, its close enough:

Metal Lathe | Miscellaneous Goods | Gumtree Australia Toowoomba City - Toowoomba 4350 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/toowoomba-4350/miscellaneous-goods/metal-lathe/1019901984)

Best of luck

Ben

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Not sure if you've seen this one, its close enough:

Metal Lathe | Miscellaneous Goods | Gumtree Australia Toowoomba City - Toowoomba 4350 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/toowoomba-4350/miscellaneous-goods/metal-lathe/1019901984)

Best of luck

Ben

I saw that one but it doesn't cost much less then the new one, if it came with tools that would be a different story.

[th62]

The AL250G from Hare and Forbes only cuts metric threads. The same lathe is also sold by Weis as the WM250g but Weis supply it with an extra 36 tooth change gear so you can cut imperial threads. I have the H&F lathe but I had a 36 tooth gear floating around which I modded to fit, so for all intentional purposes it’s the same as the Weis. Metric threading is good, you can cut 15 metric threads in the range of .25 up to 2.5 but only around 10 of those are of any use, the rest being too fine unless your into very small models. The imperial thread cutting with the extra 36 tooth change gear in place only cuts 10 threads in the range of 96TPI to 12 TPI and only three maybe four of those threads are of any use, those being 12TPI (½“W), 16TPI (3/8“W) and the 24TPI (3/8”UNF). The 30 and maybe 40TPI may be of some use but the rest are much too fine unless making parts for extremely small models. You may be able to fit another smaller/bigger gear in place of the 34/36 tooth gear to give a better imperial selection. Normally a 127 tooth gear is used but I don’t know where you could fit that. It is a good price though, their normally around the $2100 mark with the stand and the four jaw chuck.

[th62]

BTW there is a manual, including a parts list, you can download from the Weis site so you can have a good look at it.

[cba_melbourne]

The "hefty piece of machinery is a bit of a problem but 200-280 should be okay, I know some strong guys, as for what I am turning I would like to try making a sterling engine a steam engine maybe a combustion engine, okay I am pretty interested in engines and things of the sort (I want to be a mechanical engineer) so a lot of that stuff, I also have a RC car that I would make parts for and projects like that, will a smaller lathe do that?

Hi Alaks. Have you looked at an Emco Unimat lathe. With an Unimat you can make all the above working model engines. Only small models of course. You can buy a used Unimat with milling head for a small fraction of your budget. And if in a few years you want bigger, you will find it easy to sell. It is light enough for you to carry it around. It is accurate enough to make all sort of engines or clocks. Yet you can use it in a spare bedroom. It has about the power of a better sewing machine, so it takes its time to remove metal. Yet it will not rip a finger off if you do a silly mistake. With it you can learn all you need to know to prepare for a larger machine in a couple years time. But there are many that only ever had such a small lathe, and made with it model engines that one would never believe possible.

If that sounds too small for you, have a good look at the Chinese 7" Sieg minilathe. There are Yahoo groups about the minilathe. There is also a booklet from David Fenner in the Workshop Practice Series, #43, titled "the mini-lathe". This is a great beginner's lathe, but it usually needs some TLC (Tender Loving Care) out of the box. Your budget could buy you a new minilathe with a separate minimill and a good selection of tooling and some good books to get started. Buying this type of machines used is a bit risky (because of the TLC requirement when new, there is no guarantee the previous owner made things worse rather than better). Whatever choice you finally make, keep it safe and remember lathes can be unforgiving to mistakes, the larger the more so. Chris

[PDW]

Hi Alaks. Have you looked at an Emco Unimat lathe.

Don't. They are a very nicely made toy. A friend of mine had one so I know of what I speak.

IMO a lathe of the 5" to 6" centre height by 20" to 24" between centres is a sweet spot to be. Preferably with a decent spindle bore, 25mm minimum.

The problem with the short bed lathes is, the distance is measured centre to centre. Add a 3 jaw chuck, there goes 3 or 4 inches. Add a drill chuck & drill, there goes maybe another 6". Unless you can stuff whatever you're machining up the spindle bore, your 18" between centres lathe is now capable of turning maybe 9".

I probably do 80% of my work, and all my fine precision work, on my 5" CH x 20" BC Chipmaster lathe but it has a 36mm spindle bore and a full set of collets so I can use all of the bore.

If money is tight at the start get a nice 6" 4 jaw chuck and a dial test indicator. You can hold to better precision than anything except the really expensive 3 jaw chucks, it doesn't take long to dial work in once you have the practice in and it is also the most secure way (other than a collet chuck) to hold work.

PDW

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Thanks guys, this has helped a lot, I will be trying to get a job next weekend so I can save some cash to buy a lathe, I don't have all that I need right now.

[Alaks McGREGORE]

I have decided on the lathe I am getting, this will be a nice small starter lathe then I will go for something a bit bigger once I have the basics down. biggest lathe on you tube? heavy engineering - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=AAM2huBigQw)

[Alaks McGREGORE]

I was looking at the C3, is it any good? Would it do what I want it to? I can get it for just over $800 and then if you add the cost of tools it would be $1500 for the basic stuff but as I get better I will want more stuff? Tell me if I am off but up front that would be like $1000 less then that al-250g, that appeals but will it do what I want?

[neksmerj]

Hi Alaks,

You may well pick up a good second hand Hercus 260 ARM, or an older 9" AR.

Mal Conomy, one of our members here, may be able to help you. He has a business for the metal hobbyist. I'm not affiliated with Mal, but have spoken to him on many occasions, and know him to be an honest bloke.

Australian Metalworking Hobbyist (http://www.australianmetalworkinghobbyist.com/store/)

Ken

[rodweb]

I am occasional visitor to this forum. Back to the original question about the AL250G. I reckon this would be a great choice for a starting lathe.

At your age not being able to cut imperial threads should not be an issue as even at my age (54) who has got into this stuff over the last couple of years, I try very hard to stick to metric in everything I do and even hate using a tape measure with inches on it! By the time you really need to cut an imperial thread, you will be ready to upgrade your lathe I reckon! C'mon guys we went metric way back in the 70's and there is only two countries in the world who still officially measure stuff in inches so why bother?

i looked hard at this lathe in January when I upgraded and decided to buy the next model up (AL320G) which means I can cut imperial threads God forbid. I would have loved the next one above it the AL336 but it would not fit in my shed.

I have to muck around with change wheels to do it when you have a gearbox to do that for you. With a 250G you get a 25mm spindle which is a good size but you don't get a 4 jaw chuck as standard but one is available. You can use 16mm tooling and mine is 12mm. I know some will disagree but I find Hare and Forbes to be good to deal with and they always give me a discount off their list price for tooling and stuff but can't do that on some of the Aussie lines they sell.

Go for it I say. If you ever outgrow it, you will get good money for it and skip to a serious lathe say the AL336 with coolant, spindle brake, Camlock chucks and DRO options and your tooling will still work on it.

[Steamwhisperer]

C'mon guys we went metric way back in the 70's and there is only two countries in the world who still officially measure stuff in inches so why bother?



Hi Rod,
hmmmm, now where do I start with that one :D:D:D
Everything I do is in imperial Rod, but I guess i'm just lucky:wink:
If I hadn't learnt imperial I would certainly be dead in the water or at the least very restricted in what I could do.

Phil

[Alaks McGREGORE]

I really would hope never to have to cut a imperial thread, and I don't really plan to cut that many threads but when is a lathe used for what you intend it for?:q

[Ueee]

That is a very very good point!
You may need to fix something, add to something, match something......It is better if you have the option than not. What Andre (Welder) signs off with is very correct, better to have tools and not need them than need something and not have it.....

Cheers
Ew

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Hi, I have a question for all those that have a Al-250g, it is an expensive lathe for the size so is it worth the extra money? The Cl-6 is about the same size as the Al-250g so why such a big difference?

[cba_melbourne]

Hi, I have a question for all those that have a Al-250g, it is an expensive lathe for the size so is it worth the extra money? The Cl-6 is about the same size as the Al-250g so why such a big difference?

Same size, but two very different lathes:
The AL-260 is a geared head lathe, and has a quick change gearbox for threading and automatic feed, and has power cross feed too.
The Sieg C-6 (AL-60) has a belt drive headstock, simple change wheels for threading and automatic feed, and no power cross feed.

[th62]

The AL250 has a 25mm spindle bore, power cross feed, MT3 in the tailstock and MT5 in the spindle. The AL250 also has 80mm tailstock travel and I think you'll find it also has more travel in the cross and compound slides, all in all it is a bigger machine. However, the C6 looks to be a well made machine, the 250 not so much. If not for the power crossfeed and 25mm spindle bore I probably would have considered the C6. As for hoping to never cut an imperial thread - you will: Despite metric measurements coming in years ago, many things still have imperial threads, just look at the bolt selection in any hardware store.

[nearnexus]

I see that Seig now have introduced the C8 model which actually has a quick change gearbox - first ever.

It's also got some other nice goodies but is well out of this price range.

Unfortunately it comes with an M2 tailstock, which seems odd when an M3 could easily be fitted, in line with other machines of this size.

It's dear for what it is, but looks to be a nice machine.

Rob

[th62]

The AL-250 also has a reverse gear for the leadscrew, I don't think the C6 has that either. I saw an ad for the C8 lathe on ebay, but like nearnexus said, it is dear. At $2800 it is horrendously dear, particularly when it doesn't have a reverse gear leadscrew, power crossfeed or geared headstock. Some others to consider: BV250, 280 x 700G, TL250V, some of these and many others are on machines4u.com.

[mahgnia]

The AL-250 also has a reverse gear for the leadscrew, I don't think the C6 has that either.


The C6 does have a reverse gear for the lead screw for LH threading/longitudinal feed.
The C6 is also quiet in operation compared to geared head lathes, and comes with several change gears to allow a wide range of imperial and metric theads to be cut. (See attached spreadsheet for change gear/thread cutting combinations on the C6).
The only issue with this setup is it may take a minute to change speeds and a few minutes to set up the correct gear train for threading, but for a non-production workshop I don't see this as a big issue.

Andrew
271857271858

[Dave J]

I am occasional visitor to this forum. Back to the original question about the AL250G. I reckon this would be a great choice for a starting lathe.

At your age not being able to cut imperial threads should not be an issue as even at my age (54) who has got into this stuff over the last couple of years, I try very hard to stick to metric in everything I do and even hate using a tape measure with inches on it! By the time you really need to cut an imperial thread, you will be ready to upgrade your lathe I reckon! C'mon guys we went metric way back in the 70's and there is only two countries in the world who still officially measure stuff in inches so why bother?

i looked hard at this lathe in January when I upgraded and decided to buy the next model up (AL320G) which means I can cut imperial threads God forbid. I would have loved the next one above it the AL336 but it would not fit in my shed.

I have to muck around with change wheels to do it when you have a gearbox to do that for you. With a 250G you get a 25mm spindle which is a good size but you don't get a 4 jaw chuck as standard but one is available. You can use 16mm tooling and mine is 12mm. I know some will disagree but I find Hare and Forbes to be good to deal with and they always give me a discount off their list price for tooling and stuff but can't do that on some of the Aussie lines they sell.

Go for it I say. If you ever outgrow it, you will get good money for it and skip to a serious lathe say the AL336 with coolant, spindle brake, Camlock chucks and DRO options and your tooling will still work on it.

I am a bit younger than you and have cut way more imperial threads on my lathe than I have metric.
It's not often you get to pick metric/imperial it's what your working on that makes that decision.
If someone wanted a new table saw arbour it's more than likely imperial and these are still made today with imperial threads. If you go to the hardware store it's much cheaper buying imperial nuts for a job than it is metric as they usually come in blister packs with 10 or so in them.

With saying about out growing it and upgrading I totally agree, this is why I try to steer people strait to something like a AL336 size lathe. I stepped up from a Hercus and have had mine (Toolex brand) for 10 years and it's done everything a normal home shop would need in my opinion. I know you where short on space, but if you have the room nobody will look back with the slightly bigger lathe.
It's just seems a waist of money to buy a $2200 lathe (plus a $200 chuck on top) then to sell it at a loss latter to buy a $3000 lathe. It saves a lot of money just to buy the little bigger lathe to start with and you get all the extra features like you stated with the camlock spindle etc.

Dave

[th62]

The C6 was very tempting when I was looking around, but the 20mm spindle bore and no auto cross feed turned me off a little. Can’t say as I’m overly enthusiastic with geared head lathes: noisy as, lots more things to break, if you overfill they bog down and you have to turn the chuck back and forth while you wiggle the lever into position - just as easy to move the belt from pulley to pulley and belts are a lot quieter. Unfortunately, most lathes with 250mm swing or more seem to have geared heads, certainly all Hafcos do. I do prefer the quick change gearboxes though, changing gears by hand all the time is very time consuming. Titan seem to have quite a few with variable speed, they seem reasonably price and well enough made, but they don‘t advertise their whereabouts … NSW?

[cba_melbourne]

> It's just seems a waist of money to buy a $2200 lathe (plus a $200 chuck on top) then to sell it at a loss latter to buy a $3000 lathe.

You say bigger is better, because that is what did work for you. It is not that easy though. Bigger is not necessarily better for everybody. Not everybody wants or needs to go larger over time. It definitely depends a lot of what one wants to do. And how one likes to do this. Recently somebody on another forum formulated a brilliant comparison between a well made light belt drive lathe, and a semi-industrial geared head lathe: it is like comparing driving a sports car with a battle tank. Sure, it is perfectly possible to build a small steam engine on an AL-320, but I do not think it is a particularly fun experience. It is more like working to make a living.

A well made gear head lathe with hardened and precision ground gears is universally desirable but invariably expensive. Too expensive for most home shops.

A not so well made gear head lathe may be affordable, but can be very noisy, may have excessive backlash, may leak oil, may vibrate, is almost guaranteed to produce inferior surface finish, may only have a limited design life, may be difficult to repair as parts may be unavailable after only few years, has a limited/low top rpm speed, may/will break if things go wrong...

A well made belt drive lathe can be superior to a not so well made gear head lathe. It may not have the same power, but it will run much quieter, produce some of the best surface finishes attainable with a lathe, is easy to fix when broken, is more forgiving as it can slip when things go wrong, can handle higher rpm (think of a VFD upgrade), may be used indoors...

Best suited: Industrial type heavy duty use, get a good well made geared head lathe. Hobby/home shop use, mostly large and coarse workpieces in mainly steel, get the best geared head lathe you can afford. Hobby/home shop use, mostly smaller but accurate workpieces in mixed brass/ally/steel/plastics/wood..., get a good belt drive lathe.

No fun to drive a minig truck to a mountain race - no fun to ruin a Porsche in a quarry. Chris

[pippin88]

The C6 was very tempting when I was looking around, but the 20mm spindle bore and no auto cross feed turned me off a little. Can’t say as I’m overly enthusiastic with geared head lathes: noisy as, lots more things to break, if you overfill they bog down and you have to turn the chuck back and forth while you wiggle the lever into position - just as easy to move the belt from pulley to pulley and belts are a lot quieter. Unfortunately, most lathes with 250mm swing or more seem to have geared heads, certainly all Hafcos do. I do prefer the quick change gearboxes though, changing gears by hand all the time is very time consuming. Titan seem to have quite a few with variable speed, they seem reasonably price and well enough made, but they don‘t advertise their whereabouts … NSW?

They are in the central coast NSW. Just a storage shed full of machines but the service and price are decent. Average Chinese quality I'd say, some machines ok, others to be regarded as a kit really.
My mini lathe was crap. TM20 mill I got is decent

[Dave J]

It's not so much the size it's the features like cam lock spindle, power feeds etc.

Dave

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Is the AL-320g any good, it comes with a 4 jaw chuck cutting out the cost of it if I got the AL-250g and the AL-320g gives a lot more options are these any good?

[rodweb]

With saying about out growing it and upgrading I totally agree, this is why I try to steer people strait to something like a AL336 size lathe. I stepped up from a Hercus and have had mine (Toolex brand) for 10 years and it's done everything a normal home shop would need in my opinion. I know you where short on space, but if you have the room nobody will look back with the slightly bigger lathe.
It's just seems a waist of money to buy a $2200 lathe (plus a $200 chuck on top) then to sell it at a loss latter to buy a $3000 lathe. It saves a lot of money just to buy the little bigger lathe to start with and you get all the extra features like you stated with the camlock spindle etc.

Dave

one of the advantages of the AL250g to my mind is that it was a lot more affordable for a teenager to buy than the AL336. However, it has one advantage over the AL320G that I bought and that is it supports 16 mm tooling like the AL336 whereas the AL320g uses 12mm tooling. The AL320G is certainly beefy enough to use 16mm tooling but I think you would need to shave a bit off the bottom of the tool post to get down to centre height.

i do agree though. The AL336 is really where one should start and the reason why I settled on the AL320G was I could not fit the AL336 into my shed. Having said that, the AL320g is an affordable compromise. It has a 38mm spindle like the AL336 and cuts imperial threads but you have to muck about with change wheels to thread which you don't have to do on the 250G. I make some really simple parts all of the time and production time is 50% faster than on my previous lathe. It also comes with a 4 jaw chuck which helps to close the gap on price. I will say as a newcomer and self taught, with the bigger lathe, I am much more conscious of how much damage it could do to me so I am very slow and deliberate with my movements for safety.

[gngh]

Any opinions expressed here are personal and based on member's experience, but we all have 'different' experiences, many with the same machines. Most here will defend or criticise choices such as geared heads or belt drives, camlock or threaded spindles, quick change boxes or separate gears, large or small, Chinese or other with great fervour, no one item is better than the other - it’s all a matter of personal choice. Personally I like belts, threaded spindles and Q/C gearboxes, but I’m not saying my choices are the best, they simply suit my needs (now). Whatever lathe you decide on, it is a learning tool and will help you decide what will best suit your requirements in the future. Hopefully your first lathe will be your last, but I doubt it, most here have owned more than one.

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Okay, I have narrowed it down to two lathes, the SC3 and the AL-320g. The majore ishews I have with the SC3 is the fact I don't like cheap china (not dissing china just for this sort of thing) electronics in these sorts of things and I don't like the fact that you will not be able to take as much off, any opinions on this? Also (I need to look into this more) I will need an engine crane to move a bigger lathe, how much of a pain is this? I am leaning too the bigger lathe and I know I will never grow out of it (if I do I will need a much bigger shed).

[burraboy]

Read this; http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/al-320g-good-bad-news-168716/?highlight=al320g There are other related threads on this forum, type al320g into the search facility.
I have an AL320G and have ongoing related problems with the starter capacitor. It is a heavy lathe and each time I need to work on the electrics I have to support a beam in the rafters and lift the lathe with a block and tackle off it with my wife standing by with a dolly to slip under it so I can move the blasted thing to get at the motor. Putting it back is a reverse of the procedure. Not happy Hafco.

[Gavin Newman]

I had an AL320G and had no problems with it apart from a leaking gasket under the gearbox top cover (which was replaced on-site under warranty). I ran 16mm tooling with no problems and had no issues with the motor.

Having said that, this is a budget lathe as is any lathe in this price range, so you need to insist on inspecting the lathe prior to taking delivery and don't expect perfection, but it should be a good workable lathe.

There are a lot of 320G owners out there so you should be able to get plenty of help if you do run into problems.

[Bryan]

I am leaning too the bigger lathe and I know I will never grow out of it (if I do I will need a much bigger shed).

Dude, at 13 you should expect and hope to grow out of things. I would be looking for something that suits your needs now and for the next 2 or 3 years, rather than trying to buy a lathe for life. You can't possibly do that with zero experience. Machines are like women - you need to try a few out before you know which one to keep. (Am I allowed to say that in 2013?) :D

[Alaks McGREGORE]

[QUOTE=Bryan;1659670Machines are like women - you need to try a few out before you know which one to keep. (Am I allowed to say that in 2013?) :D[/QUOTE]
Lol, got a kick out of that. And it is probably just fine to say as long as it's not to wife or girlfriend, you only ever make that mistake once, lol.

[PDW]

Machines are like women - you need to try a few out before you know which one to keep. (Am I allowed to say that in 2013?) :D

Hmmmm. Scratches head. Wonder if there's a reason I have 4 lathes, then?

Anyway the belt vs gear head is not worth spending a lot of time on. GH is definitely better as long as it's built properly & robust. Not convinced the cheaper Chinese lathes are, personally. Power cross feed as well as long feed, definitely. Bigger spindle bore, definitely a plus.

As for 12mm vs 16mm tooling, who cares. I use 12mm tooling quite happily on my Chipmaster and I can't say I've ever found it to be an issue.

The Hafco lathes are probably ok if, as already stated, inspected for defects early.

PDW

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Hmmmm. Scratches head. Wonder if there's a reason I have 4 lathes, then?

Anyway the belt vs gear head is not worth spending a lot of time on. GH is definitely better as long as it's built properly & robust. Not convinced the cheaper Chinese lathes are, personally. Power cross feed as well as long feed, definitely. Bigger spindle bore, definitely a plus.

As for 12mm vs 16mm tooling, who cares. I use 12mm tooling quite happily on my Chipmaster and I can't say I've ever found it to be an issue.

The Hafco lathes are probably ok if, as already stated, inspected for defects early.

PDW

LoL, lets not start comparing our love lives to our tuning stuff, unless you buy your woman.

The first thing I would do when I get a new lathe would be to whip out the old oil and put in new oil, but since the SC3 that I am also looking at does not need oil (correct me if I am wrong, I am frequently wrong about this stuff) then that takes care of one thing but you would need to do other things as well and I would not mined doing that. (love mechanics)
Is there a thread about what to do as soon as you get a metal lathe here? Like a start to finish guide?

[Ueee]

I have 2 metal lathes and married my high school sweetheart.....oops.

There is a thread by steamwhisperer called "should have known" or something to that effect. On phone so no link sorry.

Cheers,
Ew

[th62]

Can’t decide between an AL-320 and an SC3, doesn’t anybody else think this is a little strange. A lathe with a 3” chuck or a lathe with a 6” chuck, a lathe with a 180mm SOB or 320mm SOB - 44kgs or 280kgs. I’m a little suspicious.

[Auskart]

Can’t decide between an AL-320 and an SC3, doesn’t anybody else think this is a little strange. A lathe with a 3” chuck or a lathe with a 6” chuck, a lathe with a 180mm SOB or 320mm SOB - 44kgs or 280kgs. I’m a little suspicious.

Yes, doesn't seem to Add up, does it ??

[Machtool]

Can’t decide between an AL-320 and an SC3, doesn’t anybody else think this is a little strange.
The kids 13 years old. Cut him some slack.

Phil.

[th62]

Yes Auskart, you heard him, cut the kid some slack. He's only 13?

[Auskart]

:c

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Can’t decide between an AL-320 and an SC3, doesn’t anybody else think this is a little strange. A lathe with a 3” chuck or a lathe with a 6” chuck, a lathe with a 180mm SOB or 320mm SOB - 44kgs or 280kgs. I’m a little suspicious.
I would love nothing more then to get the AL-320g or a bigger lathe, maybe the AL-336D? But space is a big thing, I do rhee tea kwon do, I do squash, I do bike ridding along with the rest of my rather large family. I am also a wood worker so I have a band saw an OT lathe on it's way, 3 wood lathes and a hole wall of my single car garage/shed is staked high with wood, my dad is a hoarder of boxes, my mum has a motor bike that needs to go in there, so there is limited space, and to top it off I may be moving soon, that is why I thought a SC3 might be better.

[Big Shed]

You don't need a lathe, you need a shed!:D

[Alaks McGREGORE]

You don't need a lathe, you need a shed!:D
Yeah, I could have gone on but I thought that was far enough, maybe I should have half your shed, your name is big shed so you must have a massive shed.:p

[welder]

I bought a seig c3 sized lathe when I was 13 and I really think this is the best option to learn on as you can always buy a bigger lathe later and keep the seig for the small stuff :2tsup::2tsup:.