Tools.

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Hi, I was looking at buying a SC3 metal lathe and was wondering if these tools will work? I have heard carbide is not good for metal lathes? Have a look at these and tell me if they are any good, you need to scroll to the very top. Brazed Tool Sets (http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?WD=mini%20lathe%20tools%20hss&PN=Brazed_Tool_Sets%2ehtml#a2682)

[Ueee]

Hi,
You would be better going for a diamond tool holder that I linked to in your other thread. Eventually you will learn how to gring hss tools but the diamond tool holder makes it very easy to sharpen just with a bench grinder and the jig provided.
You can use carbide on a lathe but it has a few drawbacks for a new lathe user. One is it can get expensive if you damage the tips, and its amazing just how easy this can be. You also need to turn at around 3 times the speed (or even more) than with hss, which really limits your thinking time. Carbide enjoys being pushed hard, and that's not really what the c3 you are looking at is designed to do.
Get a simple 1/2 parting tool as well, and maybe a small carbide insert type boring bar, glanze or another cheap brand, maybe a ctc tools one would be fine.
Those 3 tools and maybe a few sticks of hss for grinding to make shamfering and later threading tools should get you by well and truly.
One thing I will just say again, these Chinese machines really are not ready to be used out of the box and need work done to them first. Tissuescars on eBay has a nice hercus at the moment, that would be my pick. Either that or be patient and keep an eye on gumtree, eBay etc, you will be amazed at the bargains that can be had.
Cheers,
Ew

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Hi,
You would be better going for a diamond tool holder that I linked to in your other thread. Eventually you will learn how to gring hss tools but the diamond tool holder makes it very easy to sharpen just with a bench grinder and the jig provided.
You can use carbide on a lathe but it has a few drawbacks for a new lathe user. One is it can get expensive if you damage the tips, and its amazing just how easy this can be. You also need to turn at around 3 times the speed (or even more) than with hss, which really limits your thinking time. Carbide enjoys being pushed hard, and that's not really what the c3 you are looking at is designed to do.
Get a simple 1/2 parting tool as well, and maybe a small carbide insert type boring bar, glanze or another cheap brand, maybe a ctc tools one would be fine.
Those 3 tools and maybe a few sticks of hss for grinding to make shamfering and later threading tools should get you by well and truly.
One thing I will just say again, these Chinese machines really are not ready to be used out of the box and need work done to them first. Tissuescars on eBay has a nice hercus at the moment, that would be my pick. Either that or be patient and keep an eye on gumtree, eBay etc, you will be amazed at the bargains that can be had.
Cheers,
Ew
What sort of work on the lathe? I am prepared to do work on it so long as it doesn't cost to much?

[Oldneweng]

+1 on the Diamond Tool Holder from Eccentric Engineering (http://eccentricengineering.com.au/). They are easy to sharpen, can be used for external thread cutting and are forgiving of rough treatment. Because the tool steel is held vertically, in a crash it just slides down in the holder. They are ideal for beginners. I started with cheap indexable carbide tools for my old heavy but fairly worn lathe. I just kept chipping tips until I started using quality tools/tip. I agree with Ewan. Practice with HSS then try the carbides when you have the skills.

Dean

[Grahame Collins]

Hi Alaks,
In your lathe thread you mentioned

<I would like to try making a sterling engine a steam engine maybe a combustion engine, okay I am pretty interested in engines and things of the sort (I want to be a mechanical engineer) so a lot of that stuff, I also have a RC car that I would make parts for and projects like that, will a smaller lathe do that>

The C3 you favor, would do that and more, just how much more can be listed by the fellows that have them.I have not owned one personally but can see quite a few advantages over a bigger lathe for a lad in your position, initially.

Smaller size means:


Smaller tooling-probably cheaper

Smaller machine - smaller footprint-Sits neatly on a small bench and does not take up too much room.

Smaller-less weight- very portable


Hopefully some of our C3 owners will chip in with some helpful info for you.

About using HSS -High Speed Steel- Its not as difficult to learn to sharpen the lathe tools as some would have you believe. There are plenty of blokes here who can help you. think about buying a decent bench grinder with a white aluminium oxide stone will be an asset to you.Stones which probably will need to be bought new would be 80 -100 grit. They are relatively dear and will cost somewhere around $40 each,but last for ages if looked after.

As well, I am more than happy to help you in learning to sharpen twist drill bits ,which you can sharpen on the grinder.

I would say there may be a few second hand C3's around because owners are moving up to the next size lathe.Perhaps place an ad in our wanted section.
They should be available for a reasonable price with tooling, again - a saving.

Again look to the current owners who can help you with this information.

Cheers
Grahame

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Hi Alaks,
In your lathe thread you mentioned

<I would like to try making a sterling engine a steam engine maybe a combustion engine, okay I am pretty interested in engines and things of the sort (I want to be a mechanical engineer) so a lot of that stuff, I also have a RC car that I would make parts for and projects like that, will a smaller lathe do that>

The C3 you favor, would do that and more, just how much more can be listed by the fellows that have them.I have not owned one personally but can see quite a few advantages over a bigger lathe for a lad in your position, initially.

Smaller size means:


Smaller tooling-probably cheaper
Smaller machine - smaller footprint-Sits neatly on a small bench and does not take up too much room.
Smaller-less weight- very portable


Hopefully some of our C3 owners will chip in with some helpful info for you.

About using HSS -High Speed Steel- Its not as difficult to learn to sharpen the lathe tools as some would have you believe. There are plenty of blokes here who can help you. think about buying a decent bench grinder with a white aluminium oxide stone will be an asset to you.Stones which probably will need to be bought new would be 80 -100 grit. They are relatively dear and will cost somewhere around $40 each,but last for ages if looked after.

As well, I am more than happy to help you in learning to sharpen twist drill bits ,which you can sharpen on the grinder.

I would say there may be a few second hand C3's around because owners are moving up to the next size lathe.Perhaps place an ad in our wanted section.
They should be available for a reasonable price with tooling, again - a saving.

Again look to the current owners who can help you with this information.

Cheers
Grahame
Thanks, I can sharpen a tool no problem and I already have a bench grinder but I just don't know how to shape a tool yet, can you point me to any good HSS tools?

[Oldneweng]

Thanks, I can sharpen a tool no problem and I already have a bench grinder but I just don't know how to shape a tool yet, can you point me to any good HSS tools?

Search YouTube for Tubal Cain - Tool Bit Grinding, in 3 parts. He shows the process using a piece of wood which makes it easy to see all the angles.

When you say "can you point me to any good HSS tools?" do you mean a HSS tool holder or finished HSS"?

Dean

[pipeclay]

Thanks, I can sharpen a tool no problem and I already have a bench grinder but I just don't know how to shape a tool yet, can you point me to any good HSS tools?
Do you mean that your not sure how to put a radius on a tool,or to reduce its size for form tooling.

Just confused between your ability to sharpen a tool with no problem but not knowing how to shape it.

If using HSS most if not all grinding will be done off hand.

If you went down the cemented carbide path you would still need grind your cutting edges and shape the tool.

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Do you mean that your not sure how to put a radius on a tool,or to reduce its size for form tooling.

Just confused between your ability to sharpen a tool with no problem but not knowing how to shape it.

If using HSS most if not all grinding will be done off hand.

If you went down the cemented carbide path you would still need grind your cutting edges and shape the tool.
I can sharpen a tool on a diamond file and every now and then I will grined it on the grinder but I have no know how of shaping a tool, I will learn though.

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Search YouTube for Tubal Cain - Tool Bit Grinding, in 3 parts. He shows the process using a piece of wood which makes it easy to see all the angles.

When you say "can you point me to any good HSS tools?" do you mean a HSS tool holder or finished HSS"?

Dean
Well I was looking at getting a quick change tool holder and prabably a diamond tool holder but bothe, espeshaly HSS finished tools.

[.RC.]

Hi Alaks,
Stones which probably will need to be bought new would be 80 -100 grit.

Wouldn't they be a bit fine and 46 or 60 at the most the finest grade needed?

I rough mine out with a alum oxide wheel then final polish on a cheap diamond wheel...

[scottyd]

The hercus text book of turning has some information on how to shape a lathe tool as well as approximate cutting speeds for various materials. Every time i have a student who's curious about something, its my go to book, its really a very very good place to start.

And dont think it just applies to hercus lathes either. I know this isnt the right one of your threads, but there is a good bunch of reasons hercus lathes are all through schools and they are a very similar bunch of reasons a hobbiest would own one too.

[bollie7]

Well I was looking at getting a quick change tool holder and prabably a diamond tool holder but bothe, espeshaly HSS finished tools.

Alaks
As you have probably worked out by now, it can be very easy to spend more money on tooling up your machine, than what you pay for the machine. A quick change toolpost, whilst nice to have, is certainly not essential. If you have a limited budget, you might be better off just sticking with a std tool post for a while and using the money saved on other, more important,tools. Its pretty easy to adjust tool height using packing/shims on a std tool post, especially if you keep the packing with the tool.
Speaking of tools how are you off for calipers, mics etc?

bollie7

[Alaks McGREGORE]

Alaks
As you have probably worked out by now, it can be very easy to spend more money on tooling up your machine, than what you pay for the machine. A quick change toolpost, whilst nice to have, is certainly not essential. If you have a limited budget, you might be better off just sticking with a std tool post for a while and using the money saved on other, more important,tools. Its pretty easy to adjust tool height using packing/shims on a std tool post, especially if you keep the packing with the tool.
Speaking of tools how are you off for calipers, mics etc?

bollie7
I have calipers and all that cause I wood work already but I do need a dial for the lathe, and I am thinking of getting some good books, ideas?

[bollie7]

and I am thinking of getting some good books, ideas?
In addition to the books already mentioned in the other thread about the lathe, Fitting & Machining trade books have a heap of good info in them as well. Anything after 1973 should be metric. 2nd hand bookshops, garage sales, gumtree, ebay etc.

bollie7

[Dave J]

There are some good South bend PDF's online that have the tool shapes for grinding HSS.
Easy once you see how they are done.

Dave