Help please... What brand of lathe is this?

[woodnut damo]

Hi All,

Can anyone help me identify this lathe? The bed is about 4.7m long possibly made around 1920

[franco]

I suspect it is of UK origin - Britannia??? I suspect also that it might be quite a bit earlier than earlier than 1920.

It appears from the photo to have been fitted with fairly substantial riser blocks under the head stock and on the cross slide. There is no photo of the tailstock. These are often fairly distinctive, so can also help with identification. Does there appear to be a riser block under this too? The photo of the saddle and apron is not really sharp enough to pick out much detail - a better one might help with identification, also photos of the legs both ends.

Britannia made a wide variety of lathe designs. Have a look at the Britannia lathes illustrated on this website and see if you can find any reasonable matches:

Britannia Lathes (http://www.lathes.co.uk/britannia/index.html)

If not, it would be worth checking other lathes of UK manufacture on this site.

Regards,

Frank

[Combustor]

Hello Damo,
Certainly agree the styling says "British" but can't put a name to it. There was a thread on Practical Machinist some time ago when several owners of mystery machines tried to identify them. The machines in question all had West Australian connections but were completely unbranded, not even casting or part numbers on them anywhere. They were three different sizes, but shared some parts and features in common. After much discussion and opinion, it was generally concluded that some of the early WA foundries and engineering firms in the 1900-1910 period were capable of making their own machine tools to cash in on the first gold boom here, and it was quicker to copy other designs for their own use rather than wait years for imports. Three or four firms including at least one mining company were identified as having this kind of engineering capacity but we could not determine who may have produced the lathes.
Later on a South Australian contributor came up with pictures of his British "Willson" machine which was near identical to the unbranded machines, so at least it was established what they copied. It would not have been illegal to do this provided they were not offered for public sale.
I am in no way suggesting that your machine has any WA connection, but it is highly likely that if a machine of that era is completely unbranded, that some enterprising firm produced copies of an existing brand for their own purposes when the need arose. I still have a presumed "Willson" copy, similar size or larger than yours, and it still gets called on occasionally to perform work that my small machine can't handle.
Time spent trawling the " lathes.co.uk" site for early machines may yield something that looks familiar. Look for part numbers on castings etc, their absence may tell whether you have an early clone or a real one. Good hunting,
Combustor.
PS, agree the Britannia pics certainly have a resemblance, could be one of them with riser blocks fitted.

[j.ashburn]

Hello Damo,
Certainly agree the styling says "British" but can't put a name to it. There was a thread on Practical Machinist some time ago when several owners of mystery machines tried to identify them. The machines in question all had West Australian connections but were completely unbranded, not even casting or part numbers on them anywhere. They were three different sizes, but shared some parts and features in common. After much discussion and opinion, it was generally concluded that some of the early WA foundries and engineering firms in the 1900-1910 period were capable of making their own machine tools to cash in on the first gold boom here, and it was quicker to copy other designs for their own use rather than wait years for imports. Three or four firms including at least one mining company were identified as having this kind of engineering capacity but we could not determine who may have produced the lathes.
Later on a South Australian contributor came up with pictures of his British "Willson" machine which was near identical to the unbranded machines, so at least it was established what they copied. It would not have been illegal to do this provided they were not offered for public sale.
I am in no way suggesting that your machine has any WA connection, but it is highly likely that if a machine of that era is completely unbranded, that some enterprising firm produced copies of an existing brand for their own purposes when the need arose. I still have a presumed "Willson" copy, similar size or larger than yours, and it still gets called on occasionally to perform work that my small machine can't handle.
Time spent trawling the " lathes.co.uk" site for early machines may yield something that looks familiar. Look for part numbers on castings etc, their absence may tell whether you have an early clone or a real one. Good hunting,
Combustor.
PS, agree the Britannia pics certainly have a resemblance, could be one of them with riser blocks fitted.Have to agree the original would be copies[[knock offs'' of original pattern lathes ie colchester brittania without letters. this i suspect be a 18 80's or there abouts. Got a S B W here Smith Barker Willson here same thing accurate old girl who rises to the occasion for that wierd big job. Also here is a lathe made by Ford we suspect for war time production of munitions. 12.5 rpm slowest speed 71.5 max 5inch hollow spindle and all geared head.Ford logo cast into headstock casting we think been for gun barrels 25pounders? cheers John.

[franco]

Also here is a lathe made by Ford we suspect for war time production of munitions. 12.5 rpm slowest speed 71.5 max 5inch hollow spindle and all geared head.Ford logo cast into headstock casting we think been for gun barrels 25pounders? cheers John.

John,

Interesting - I have only ever come across one other reference to a Ford lathe, which appeared in, I think, Restored Cars magazine some time ago. Does yours look similar to the one in the photo, or is this the same lathe?

I sent this photo to Tony at lathes.co.uk who had not heard of an example previously. He suggested Ford Australia might have copied an existing design to use in wartime production because of the scarcity of machine tools here at the time, but could not suggest which machine might have been copied. I assume Ford would have had no trouble producing such a machine with the facilities at their disposal.

Regards,

Frank.

[j.ashburn]

John,

Interesting - I have only ever come across one other reference to a Ford lathe, which appeared in, I think, Restored Cars magazine some time ago. Does yours look similar to the one in the photo, or is this the same lathe?

I sent this photo to Tony at lathes.co.uk who had not heard of an example previously. He suggested Ford Australia might have copied an existing design to use in wartime production because of the scarcity of machine tools here at the time, but could not suggest which machine might have been copied. I assume Ford would have had no trouble producing such a machine with the facilities at their disposal.

Regards,

Frank.Yes the same lathe couldnt believe my eyes when I took off the switch panel that hid the logo.Its a beast 7.5 tons real ones on the cranes gauge when he slung it. it is in good condition despite the weathering was missing the tail stock wheel when I bought it and have got a few wheels over the past years to try and replicate.
Norm Darwin's book History of Ford in Australia and refers to Ford making lathes horizontal borers etc.
Yes they could cast for sure as Geelong had a casting plant.
With danger to shipping wartime years subs and mines we had to turn to making our own stuff,ie Cruiser tanks, Pratt and whitney engines,Gypsy major engines Wirraway and more.
My late old man told me many stories about these shortages and how some of his subscriptions ''Popular Mechanics,Meccano magazine, Practical Radio were in ''Davy Jones Locker''.Upon arrival at newsagent in those days.sorry issues not available ship torpedoed.
I know no history of the lathe as I bought it locally at auction.The vendor had bought it to turn verandah posts but at 71.5 revs he made a blue.As far as i know was ex Melbourne before that and by the size of swarf I cleaned out of the bed castings had been doing some serious turning.
Got lots of engineering stories real and horrific but that should go in a new thread. Any starters to get the ball rolling????
We learn every day and some times a small issue can be the answer we might seek.Cheers to all interested forum members.John.

[woodnut damo]

:) Hi and thank you all for your great help, it makes sense the lathe could be a copy. The bed is 4.6m long and looks like some of the attachments have been customised over the years. The Brit lathes look close. It would be fantastic to find out it's history. Attached are some more pictures

[Bryan]

So did you buy it Damo? :)

[woodnut damo]

So did you buy it Damo? :)

Gday Bryan,
Yes I bought it, had fun transporting it.
I am going to use the bed to extend my other Nuttal lathe

[woodnut damo]

This is the drive lathe I'll be using, will fit rails on the long bed to match this Nuttal lathe

[Ueee]

### are you turning? Verandah posts for a giants house:o?

I take it you only turn plan to turn wood on it? Make a nice solid lathe, wood lathes all seem pretty flimsy once you get used to the mass of a metal lathe.....

Cheers,
Ew

[jmebgo]

I also wondered what he planned to turn with it. The answer will be interesting to hear.

Ewan, no doubt you are right, but, for interests sake, have a look at some of those old patternmaker's lathes. They look quite solid. The brand Oliver comes to mind.