GordoB91 12th June 2013, 11:11 PM This must be one of my first posts on this forum, i joined after finding an interest in some of my inherited tools - some of you are going to grovel at me.
I currently get by with my milling machine (Adcock Shipley Bridgeport) and Lathe (Harrison M250) but i am interested in the idea of getting a shaper to help
do those niggly little bits of machining like inside splines and cutting raceways in steel. While i initially thought of just finding an E head for the BP, i soon realised that i have a problem,
my location of the mill is in a position such that i wont be able to swing the turret around to use it - a minor issue compared to my need for more than 100mm of shaping depth.
So i looked at the "Show us your scraper" forum and noticed that there are really three names im interested in in the 10" realm of shapers: Douglas, Elliot and Alba Shapers
My question: Can anyone shed some light on the Pro's and Con's of Each machine?
I think at this stage the Douglas is the Shaper i want to get, but i have been looking at getting a shaper for the better part of a day, and already IM HOOKED!!!
Maybe i oughta join Recipro's Anonymous already :q
Thanks
Gordon
PDW 13th June 2013, 10:31 AM If you want to do inside splines, keyways etc you will be much, much better off with a slotter than a shaper. Slotters are designed to do jobs like this, shapers can by rigged to do them but - especially WRT splines - damn poorly.
By all means get a shaper, but it's not the right tool for your expressed needs.
PDW
nadroj 13th June 2013, 11:19 AM I've never done splines or keyways on a shaper, and am interested in the view that a slotter is much better for that sort of work.
Do you mean a dedicated slotting machine, or is a slotting attachment for a mill also better than a shaper?
Is it because setting things up "sideways" is trickier, or a shaper table not as solid?
Jordan
PDW 13th June 2013, 12:01 PM I've never done splines or keyways on a shaper, and am interested in the view that a slotter is much better for that sort of work.
Do you mean a dedicated slotting machine, or is a slotting attachment for a mill also better than a shaper?
Is it because setting things up "sideways" is trickier, or a shaper table not as solid?
Jordan
A dedicated slotting machine almost always has a built-in rotary table, often with power feed. This is much better than fitting a RT to a mill or worse to a shaper for spline cutting etc.
You can run out of Z travel real fast using a slotting head on a mill if you start stacking a RT then a 4 jaw then a workpiece.
Slotters are much more rigid machines as there is no moveable knee, the ram stroke & position adjusts to get the cutting depth.
Nothing wrong with a shaper but there's a reason slotters exist and that's to do internal keyways, splines, profiles etc. They do this job very well indeed whereas a shaper does this sort of work via a lot of more or less flexible kludges. Been there done that which is why I have both.
In fact now I think on it the last job I did in the mill using a manual 4 axis setup (RT with 4 jaw on the B/port) might have been easier to do in the slotter. Hmmmm....
PDW
nadroj 13th June 2013, 01:18 PM Thanks PDW.
Jordan
Bryan 13th June 2013, 02:13 PM Not having used a slotter I'm wondering how they go with keyseats in the end of a long shaft? Do they have hollow spindles on the tables? Or would that be more of mill/shaper job? I did one with my shaper recently and it seemed pretty easy.
Stustoys 13th June 2013, 02:35 PM Or would that be more of mill/shaper job?
In a perfect world cutting keyways would be a job for a.... wait for it..... keyway cutting machine, not a slotting machine(well so I have read), but as I've never seen one(other than a picture) I guess thats not a lot of help ;)
I'll chase it up if anyone cares, the cutter comes up through the table, so the length of the workpiece would be limited by roof height hehe.
Stuart
PDW 13th June 2013, 05:49 PM Not having used a slotter I'm wondering how they go with keyseats in the end of a long shaft? Do they have hollow spindles on the tables? Or would that be more of mill/shaper job? I did one with my shaper recently and it seemed pretty easy.
Assuming you're talking about an external keyway, that's a job for a mill, shaper or planer IMO, not a slotter. The slotter is for keyways etc inside bores, blind or through hole.
I prefer a mill simply because it's generally easier to support the shaft though there's lots of times I've needed to use a support of some type. However a shaper works fine provided you drill/mill a hole for the cut to terminate in.
PDW
Dave J 13th June 2013, 06:18 PM Hi Gordon,
Your on the right track and I would say the Douglas is the one to go for as there are plenty around and they are a good little machine.
As for a dedicated slotter, not many home shops want to be getting a 2 - 10 ton dedicated slotter in the home shop for the odd job. If we have to do the job sideways for the one off job here and there it's not a big hassle.
Rob who is a member here but mostly posts on Madmodder has done some great documentation on gear cutting etc in the shaper.He made an extension table for his little shaper out of cold rolled plate to mount the dividing head on, worked out great.
Here are a few from google on cutting internal spines.
Google Image Result for http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTools/internal_spline/spline_setup.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/imgres?um=1&sa=N&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=567&tbm=isch&tbnid=nXiOeWiGB_t9fM:&imgrefurl=http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTools/internal_spline/&docid=vYZv-e0dx1j5OM&imgurl=http://www.kinzers.com/don/MachineTools/internal_spline/spline_setup.jpg&w=597&h=525&ei=RnC5UZb-A4bxlAWs74DgBg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=223&vpy=42&dur=2500&hovh=210&hovw=239&tx=93&ty=122&page=1&tbnh=153&tbnw=170&start=0&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:86)
Google Image Result for http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/GAEWEN/4ae49d96.jpg (http://www.google.com.au/imgres?um=1&sa=N&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=567&tbm=isch&tbnid=BNzz2GjTr28xuM:&imgrefurl=http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/4154-Intenal-Keyways-and-Splines&docid=4dAQsF1bs_0exM&imgurl=http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0603/GAEWEN/4ae49d96.jpg&w=448&h=302&ei=RnC5UZb-A4bxlAWs74DgBg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=344&page=1&tbnh=138&tbnw=221&start=0&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:0,i:125&tx=88&ty=60)
Dave
PDW 13th June 2013, 06:54 PM As for a dedicated slotter, not many home shops want to be getting a 2 - 10 ton dedicated slotter in the home shop for the odd job.
Just as a point of fact from someone who actually owns one - the weight of mine is less than 500 kg and it's a 6" stroke machine. It's a lightweight baby really but it suits my simple needs.
I paid less for it than I would have done for an arbor press and *one* keyway broach/bushing.
You can cut internal keyways in a shaper as I have said, just like you can do milling in a lathe. A poor substitute for getting a job done when you have no other choice.
PDW
nadroj 13th June 2013, 07:25 PM Can we please see a photo of your slotter, PDW?
Jordan
Steamwhisperer 13th June 2013, 08:10 PM In a perfect world cutting keyways would be a job for a.... wait for it..... keyway cutting machine, not a slotting machine(well so I have read), but as I've never seen one(other than a picture) I guess thats not a lot of help ;)
Stuart
Hi Stuart,
You may have actually stood next to one.
Phil
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