Alfred Herbert (?) Dividing head

[Ueee]

Hi all,
After a nice little drive today i know have a new DH, Pratt 3 jaw and a Tos 3 jaw. I bough the Tos as it was a plain back with a D1-8 backplate, in great nick with both sets of jaws. A good size for the LeBlond. If you could use the backplate let me know. The Pratt on the DH is a steel bodied chuck, but only with the reverse jaws. It looks like i can buy soft jaws to fit at a decent price, but proper jaws will cost me a fortune.

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The DH itself is big, it weighs in at 102kg, without the chuck. It has had a dulux at some point, all the angle grads are painted over etc. No name on the head itself yet, but the dividing plate has "Alfred Herbert Tool Makers" on it. Although that would point to the head being British and all the fasteners so far have been metric......Hence the (?).

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There are serrations at one point on the outer edge of the plate, and a corresponding shaft that can engage with them. A lock?

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The Plate is positioned by an expanding pin, a tapered bolt drives the 2 halves apart.

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I pulled the "top" of the head to reveal a pristine worm and gear, much to Michael's relief no doubt....:q

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The square nut drives a large gear on the main shaft than moves the toothed clutch that engages the worm gear in and out.

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Not sure about this one, it has a gear on the end of it that drives a rack in there.....the what end i'm not sure yet.

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If it sounds like i'm typing high or drunk i had waaaaaaay too much caffeine and sugar today and now i can't sleep.....worked until 12.00 and then drove 600km.
A fair bit of dried up oil in there but otherwise looks ok. Hopefully i'll get some play time tomorrow......
Cheers,
Ew

[RayG]

Nice score Ewan, that dividing head weighs more than some lathes... :) I had a bit of a look at a Herbert vertical grinder a few weeks back, nicely made but "BIG" 36" diameter magnetic chuck..

Are you going to do a full restoration?

Regards
Ray

[Michael G]

100kg? You will need a hoist for that.
What's the ratio - 40:1?
I have a manual for a B&S dividing head if you need the tables

Michael

[j.ashburn]

100kg? You will need a hoist for that.
What's the ratio - 40:1?
I have a manual for a B&S dividing head if you need the tables

MichaelNice pick up there Ewan,that D/H will see you out and by the looks of your little bloke [''the shaper jockey'']he will see it into his next generation should he take up the trade.
Mars coming along in bits now and got some bits pickling in the electro bath.Looks like the factory paint on this one is Indian Red near to Maroon. Cheers John.

[PDW]

Hope it fits on your machine well. I thought about buying it myself when it was listed but decided it was just too big & heavy to be bothered with. A smaller one I can fit to the Victoria mill will come along at some point.

I already have one of the Taiwanese units that's served me well for the last 30 years. Only reason for looking is, the theoretical ability to cut spiral gears etc.

PDW

[Ueee]

Well, i just learnt something....you can only multi quote 3 posts.....


Nice score Ewan, that dividing head weighs more than some lathes... :) I had a bit of a look at a Herbert vertical grinder a few weeks back, nicely made but "BIG" 36" diameter magnetic chuck..

Are you going to do a full restoration?

Regards
Ray

Looks like a full Job ray, Fair bit of muck in the bowls of it and the paint job is horrible. I see a dose of resada green coming on....


100kg? You will need a hoist for that.
What's the ratio - 40:1?
I have a manual for a B&S dividing head if you need the tables

Michael

Yes Michael, it is 40:1, copies of the tables would be great, that way i can work out the missing plates etc


Nice pick up there Ewan,that D/H will see you out and by the looks of your little bloke [''the shaper jockey'']he will see it into his next generation should he take up the trade.
Mars coming along in bits now and got some bits pickling in the electro bath.Looks like the factory paint on this one is Indian Red near to Maroon. Cheers John.

The shaper Jockey eh? i like that:) I guess you have been looking at the Queen city shaper thread. I just thought he was the improved power downfeed.....

I think the head will fit just fine. probably as big as you would want to go though. Yes it will be a hoist job, which is a pain. I lifted it out of the van onto a trolley and then onto the scales but i certainly won't be lifting it onto the mill......

The unknown and stuck pinion was not stuck, it is for direct indexing. There is a plate on the spindle nose with 24 holes and a tapered pin that engages the holes. I thought it was stuck but i just didn't have a hole lined up.
Rest of the pics should be self explanatory.
Cheers,
Ew

[j.ashburn]

Well, i just learnt something....you can only multi quote 3 posts.....



Looks like a full Job ray, Fair bit of muck in the bowls of it and the paint job is horrible. I see a dose of resada green coming on....



Yes Michael, it is 40:1, copies of the tables would be great, that way i can work out the missing plates etc



The shaper Jockey eh? i like that:) I guess you have been looking at the Queen city shaper thread. I just thought he was the improved power downfeed.....

I think the head will fit just fine. probably as big as you would want to go though. Yes it will be a hoist job, which is a pain. I lifted it out of the van onto a trolley and then onto the scales but i certainly won't be lifting it onto the mill......

The unknown and stuck pinion was not stuck, it is for direct indexing. There is a plate on the spindle nose with 24 holes and a tapered pin that engages the holes. I thought it was stuck but i just didn't have a hole lined up.
Rest of the pics should be self explanatory.
Cheers,
Ew Morning Ewan,couldn't help myself with the connection to the young bloke I was my old man's shadow at the same age.Hence the terminal disease of old old machine pox.It never ceases to amaze me how those dividing heads manage to absorb so much ''gunge'' through out their working life.It is these re furbishments that take this old stuff to its next custodian in a healthy and accurate state.Nice pick up got a smaller brother to yours about 2/3. Cheers John. Think that Herbert badge a fitment by the dealer mine is a unknown maker too but a 40 to 1.They were hundreds of pounds new. Pound currency per pound weight. Next look out for you is a suitable tail stock to match will keep my eyes skinned this end Cheers John

[.RC.]

There are serrations at one point on the outer edge of the plate, and a corresponding shaft that can engage with them. A lock?





Yes it is a lock, you lock it when doing normal dividing....

Do you have any extras, like change gears?

I have a russian dividing head, probably slightly smaller...

[matthew_g]

Hey Uee,
I have an old Elliot DH that looks very similar to that. Even weighs close to the same. I'll try grab a photo and post it up.
Elliot is a pommy brand, So I will look and see what the screw threads are..
Matt

[Michael G]

Not sure about this one, it has a gear on the end of it that drives a rack in there.....the what end i'm not sure yet.

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Cheers,
Ew

The other thing you should also have is a brake/ lock so that once you have dialed up the angle you want you can lock the D/H spindle in position. That might be it, although how it works I'll leave to you to work out.

Michael

[Ueee]

Hey Uee,
I have an old Elliot DH that looks very similar to that. Even weighs close to the same. I'll try grab a photo and post it up.
Elliot is a pommy brand, So I will look and see what the screw threads are..
Matt

Hi Matt,
It is now definitely a Alfred Herbert, the name and serial number is cast on the inside of one of the gear covers. It has imperial fixings also, i just couldn't get imperial spanners on the nuts due to the thick coat of Dulux, hence the initial confusion.


Yes it is a lock, you lock it when doing normal dividing....

Do you have any extras, like change gears?

I have a russian dividing head, probably slightly smaller...

Hi RC,
With some help from Michael i now understand why you need to lock the plate in place for normal dividing, and unlock it for differential indexing. No extra's at all, i guess i'll need to make the standard 12 gears, i was looking today and they will need to be 10dp to get the 24t to have a bit of meat, the spindle on the head is 1.375". I'll also need to make a banjo and gear spindle for the back of the head, the bore in the head just has an internal keyway. Have to think about that one.


The other thing you should also have is a brake/ lock so that once you have dialed up the angle you want you can lock the D/H spindle in position. That might be it, although how it works I'll leave to you to work out.

Michael

In that first pic the nut on the right is the spindle lock, just a pair of brass plugs that pull up on the spindle, like a drill press or the HM50 quill.
The other one is to engage the direct indexing pin.

The head is now entirely in bits, it has plain bearings, tapered on the front and parallel rear. Lots of white metal washers for thrust. First casting is in the electrolysis bath, should be done by tomorrow.
The only thing i found that was highly unusual, well to me anyway, is the way the backlash is removed from the gear train. The worm and drive gear can be moved up and down simply with a packer that looks like it has been ground to suit. On of the spur gears and the worm gear ar made in 2 halves, fixed together with over bored clearance holes and have a small cam. By turning the cam the 2 halves of the gear can be moved independently giving the illusion of a thicker gear tooth.

Cheers,
Ew

[Michael G]

No extra's at all, I guess I'll need to make the standard 12 gears, i was looking today and they will need to be 10dp to get the 24t to have a bit of meat, the spindle on the head is 1.375". I'll also need to make a banjo and gear spindle for the back of the head, the bore in the head just has an internal keyway. Have to think about that one.

My D/H uses 12DP gears - coincidentally(?), the DP of the gears on the head itself. Have a look at any other equipment you have that uses change gears - it may be more convenient to make your gears in whatever module/ DP that a lathe etc takes so they are common. Smaller DP is better as there is less material to scrounge when you make them. If they are DP gears I may be able to lend you the cutters (or perhaps find some at that second hand place). Check as well the power take off on Mlle. You may find that it's diameter & length dictate the gear hub. It could be easier to modify/ reduce the D/H input shaft diameter, especially if the unit is in pieces rather than fatten up Mlle (the D/H input shaft is 1.375" diameter, Mlle would be metric - 25/30/35mm?). The two will need to be common* if you want to do spiral milling. I am lucky that the mill is 25mm, the D/H 25.4mm.
*When I made the D/H gear set I didn't have the mill but if I were doing it now everything would be 25mm.
The gear spindle should not be difficult to sort out. Mine has no key but is tapered. I hold it in place with a thick washer and screw (like a draw bar of zero length) as there is a step in the spindle bore.



The only thing I found that was highly unusual, well to me anyway, is the way the backlash is removed from the gear train. The worm and drive gear can be moved up and down simply with a packer that looks like it has been ground to suit. One of the spur gears and the worm gear are made in 2 halves, fixed together with over bored clearance holes and have a small cam. By turning the cam the 2 halves of the gear can be moved independently giving the illusion of a thicker gear tooth.

That's a common (high end) way of reducing backlash on (therefore expensive) equipment. I've seen it done with spur gears but this is the first time I've heard it done for worm gears. Sometimes the two halves are spring loaded so that the adjustment is "automatic"

[Anorak Bob]

Ew,

White anting Michael's offer of tables is not my intention but if you haven't already done so, have a look at the Brown and Sharpe "Practical Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines". ( Blue grey cover, about A5 size , 20mm thick, probably serving as a packer under something in the shed :wink:.) There is a chapter devoted to their universal spiral index centres, indexing and cutting spirals. And there's about 80 pages of tables devoted to indexing, spirals and cam cutting, the latter having some importance if you owned a cam controlled automatic screw machine.

Great photos. Do you have a shot of the head prior to evisceration?

And, what is the centre height? Bridgeport made a tall tailstock to suit their rotary table when vertically mounted. Quite a neat looker and sometimes found cheaply on Ebay but I guess any T/S jacked up on a raising block would do the trick.

BT

[j.ashburn]

Hi All, on the dividing head worm to worm wheel mesh.Some dividing heads as mine has has an eccentric bush allowing the worn to swing down out of mesh for setting up or manual indexing.I like the radial way the mesh on Ewan's head can be disconnected but its a high end ''capital'' piece.John.

[Ueee]

Ew,

White anting Michael's offer of tables is not my intention but if you haven't already done so, have a look at the Brown and Sharpe "Practical Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines". ( Blue grey cover, about A5 size , 20mm thick, probably serving as a packer under something in the shed :wink:.) There is a chapter devoted to their universal spiral index centres, indexing and cutting spirals. And there's about 80 pages of tables devoted to indexing, spirals and cam cutting, the latter having some importance if you owned a cam controlled automatic screw machine.

Great photos. Do you have a shot of the head prior to evisceration?

And, what is the centre height? Bridgeport made a tall tailstock to suit their rotary table when vertically mounted. Quite a neat looker and sometimes found cheaply on Ebay but I guess any T/S jacked up on a raising block would do the trick.

BT

Hi BT,
I found the book, propping something up in the office would you believe.....It does have the spiral section, and direct and indirect indexing, but nothing on differential indexing. Would you like copies of the spiral section Michael?

I think the center height is 6", although i did not check it before pulling it apart. There is a B/P head on ebay ATM, not what i could call cheap though. Bridgeport Rotary Table Dividing Head Center Adjustable Tailstock Holder | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Bridgeport-Rotary-Table-Dividing-Head-Center-Adjustable-Tailstock-Holder-/261229215713?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item3cd2797fe1) I'm wondering if a lathe T/S may be a good option. I really don't like the one that i have for my RT.

The only other pics i have are the sellers.

Cheers,
Ew

[Michael G]

A copy of the spiral section would be interesting thanks Ewan.
I'd be interested in a review of the whole book actually - ABE shows editions published from 1914 to 1950 something - are they all the same or has more material been added?

Michael

[Ueee]

This one states original copyright 1882, this edition is 1991. Its another one of Bobs generous offerings.
It is very old fashion. Lots of stuff on horizontal milling, and hobbing cutters, machining relief etc. this is the version i have, i think anyway....Construction and Use of Universal Milling Machines by Brown & Shape Mfg. Co: Lindsay 9781559180665 Paperback - Slategray Ventures (http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=10378195348&searchurl=kn%3DConstruction%2Band%2BUse%2Bof%2BUniversal%2BMilling%2BMachines%26sts%3Dt%26x%3D33%26y%3D17) I'll email you.

[Michael G]

As I was looking through Schlesinger for the lathe spec Stuart mentioned, I chanced on this -
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It's another one of those books that you really need to read regularly and cover to cover 'cos there's all sorts hidden in there.

Michael

[Anorak Bob]

Michael,

The B and S treatise I sent Ew was similar to this one. Amazon.com: Practical Treatise on Milling and Milling Machines: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Treatise-Milling-Machines/dp/B001E35JJO/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1371949376&sr=8-3&keywords=practical+treatise+on+milling+and+milling+machines)

Probably a similar date of publication. I have a '51 edition.

When I was in Melbourne some time back and the Technical Bookshop in Swanson Street still existed, I picked up a copy of The Cincinnati Milling Machine Company's 1919 Treatise on Milling, a Lindsay Publications reprint. 400 pages. Being a window shopper when it comes to the machines of the stature of those illustrated in both books, means I don't really need both. And given they contain similar technical data, how about I slide the B and S edition into a spare parcel post bag and head it your way? Payment for the arbor experience.:U

BT

ps. Ewan describes the treatise as being old fashioned. It is but in the case of the edition I have it's only ten years older than my mill. I wonder if there are any more recent publications dealing with the use of machines such as those we use or is the assumption that if you had access to say a Sajo or Vernier or a whatever, you would know what you were doing. I have a manual for the Swiss. It doesn't have a chapter on here's how you cut a worm. It covers maintenance, nothing more.

[Michael G]

That would be very kind of you Bob, if you can spare it. If you want to throw the arbor in as well I'll see if I can recut the taper on it for you (You might be able to re-purpose it for something else then).

Michael

[Ueee]

So i have some parts bubbling away in the electrolysis tank...what to do next???

I thought whilst the spindle was out it would be a good tome to make a new backplate for the small chuck from my RT. And since the spindle seems to be an odd taper (somewhere between MT4 & 5) i thought i would make an ER40 collet chuck too.
For the backplate i used on of the flywheels from an old treadmill (damn those thing are a gold mine) and set to cutting the pulley off (for later use of course) and boring it out to the 64 odd mm required for the 6tpi ACME thread. I've never cut an ACME.....nothing like diving in the deep end and doing an internal in CI.

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So i ground a tool, i was to impatient to grind a grooving tool and running it in first, which lead to my downfall with a bit of chatter which of course once started was nigh on impossible to get rid of.
Anyway, the thread fit without any real hassles, but now of course i will need to machine the other side of it......I'm thinking of putting the spindle in the 4 jaw and the fixed steady so i can machine the chuck register in situ.

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I then chopped a length of 90mm bar and set to making a start on the ER40 chuck. Another challenge on this one, a stopped ACME thread...FUN! I will run a grooving tool in first though, then machine the flanks. The welded spots on the end of the bar were *HARD* and i ended up having to go back gear and deep cut with HSS to get under them. So, even with 6 belts speeds and a VFD a back gear is still handy!

Briangoldcoast is asking about a BS4. My BS5S took about 16 or 17 min to get through the 90mm bar with a bi-metal blade. they do cut big stuff well.....
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Cheers,
Ew

[j.ashburn]

Again Ewan nice job so far,you really given me some inspiration now to resurrect the Mars here.Pickle bath been going 24/7 top slide tail stock and lead screw mounts and idler gear arm doe now. When I get camera working will post some pics.Got the deep Red colour paint the other day it seems to be the orig livery no sign of battle ship grey got it in horrible 6X4 trailer hammertone blue ''yuk'' Cheers John.

[Anorak Bob]

I admire the way you get stuck into stuff Ew. Not one to be daunted.:2tsup:

Nice photos.

BT

[Steamwhisperer]

Inspirational Ewan, Like Bob says, you are "not one to be daunted". :2tsup::2tsup:

Phil

[Michael G]

So i have some parts bubbling away in the electrolysis tank...what to do next???

I thought whilst the spindle was out it would be a good tome to make a new backplate for the small chuck from my RT. And since the spindle seems to be an odd taper (somewhere between MT4 & 5) i thought i would make an ER40 collet chuck too.


Just looking at this thread again - that odd taper - is a Brown and Sharpe taper? Following on from the comments about a B&S dividing head being much copied, a B&S taper was particularly common in dividing heads (don't know why - finding an an adapter is particularly difficult). Making up a B&S to Morse adaptor for my D/H is on the list too.

Michael

[Ueee]

Could be Michael,
I just tried a 4 and 5mt and when neither fitted i left it there. I think i have a chart of different taper dimensions in the shed, i'll investigate.

Whilst typing here are some pics of the ACME thread for the ER40 chuck. Roughed out first made a big difference, in fact the roughing took well longer than the form cutting. Unfortunately as soon as i bottomed the tool out in the roughing cut it got some chatter:((. The mars is right on its limits at 6tpi, but it made it.

Cheers,
Ew

[Ueee]

The collet chuck is now made, as well as the chuck backplate. I would like to mess around a bit with the TPG and see if i can grind the internal taper on the collet chuck, but i need to get some wheels......(it's all Gregs fault :D) I'm also considering case hardening it but i'm not sure if i will get any distortion.
Anyway, the last part to be cleaned should go in the tank tomorrow, then its painting time.

Cheers,
Ew

[Stustoys]

Hi Ewan,
Nice work.
You dont want a grinder..... you'll end up grinding everything.:p
How did you set up the angle for the internal collet chuck taper? I happen to be making something along those lines ATM. I thought about case hardening but I'm hoping for the amount of use I will give it its not needed?

Stuart

[j.ashburn]

The collet chuck is now made, as well as the chuck backplate. I would like to mess around a bit with the TPG and see if i can grind the internal taper on the collet chuck, but i need to get some wheels......(it's all Gregs fault :D) I'm also considering case hardening it but i'm not sure if i will get any distortion.
Anyway, the last part to be cleaned should go in the tank tomorrow, then its painting time.

Cheers,
Ew
Nice work Ewan,every job I see you do makes me more comfortable with the Mars. Is all in bits now and most of it is bubbling away.Tripped A over t Monday and smacked my head on the head stock end of the bed, big bump and skin off wont be on any celebrity shows for a while.They are hard.Keep up your good work.John.

[.RC.]

Case hardening will distort it.... You would have to grind after hardening....

[Michael G]

How did you set up the angle for the internal collet chuck taper? I happen to be making something along those lines ATM. I thought about case hardening but I'm hoping for the amount of use I will give it its not needed?

Stuart

I've found for an ER collet system the angle does not have to be spot on to the last minute, so setting it up on the compound will give a good enough result. (I once cut an ER chuck cavity at 7.5 degrees rather than 8 and it worked although I recut at the correct angle when I realised soon after what I'd done.)
If things are done properly case hardening would be unnecessary for the use it is likely to see. The collect should not rotate in the chuck and pressure will be evenly distributed inside the chuck

Michael

[Ueee]

Hi Stuart,
To set the compound angle I simply clocked the angle of a bought er chuck in the spindles Morse taper. I checked the taper with a collet and some marko, with a cutter shank in the collet so it would not deform. And its too late.....I already bought Greg's c1 waldown......

Hi RC,
I would have groumd the taper again but was worried about the thread ending up slightly oval and having no way of fixing it. I'll leave it soft I think.

[Stustoys]

Hi Michael,
Thanks lol Thats pretty much the exactly opposite what I was thinking. I'd thought it would need to be spot on or it would only grip "one end".

Hi Ewan,
I dont have a spindle mount chuck, only a flange mount, which isnt what you could call spot on. I'll use it and check against a collet on ground bar between centers. That as a little finger crossing sounds like it will get me "close enough"

What you could have done (I'm told) is leave the thread area over size. Case harden(without quenching), machine case off thread area, heat, quench, machine thread, grind taper.

Stuart

[Ueee]

Hi Stuart,
I was thinking along the same lines, only maybe putting something on the thread area to stop the powder from penetrating the area, or just carefully putting the powder in the bore only. Of course if there is any carbon in the stock, like most bright bar has, it will probably end up too hard to cut with hss anyway.....maybe it could be roughed and ground with the tpg.....:rolleyes: now there's a challenge....
If you watch a series of YouTube vids by doubleboost (the guy with the crazy jordie accent) he has 4 vids on making an er32 chuck, and shows another way of clocking a collet.

Cheers,
Ew

[RayG]

Hi Ewan,

Looks good, nice to see a job come together. :2tsup:

On the heat treatment, I'd leave that job just as it is... but, when you get time try an experimental case hardening with a similar shape, BUT, do it in the following order
1. rough machine oversize,
2. stress relieve heating cycle, ( heat, hold, slow cool )
3. finish machining,
4. case harden.

Regards
Ray

[Michael G]

Thats pretty much the exactly opposite what I was thinking. I'd thought it would need to be spot on or it would only grip "one end".


True, but over a 40mm length the difference between 7.5 degrees and 8 degrees is 0.35mm. While I would advocate getting it as close to 8 degrees as you can, in real terms I don't know that you are going to notice if it was out slightly.

Michael

[Stustoys]

Hi Ray,
Would you want a case hardened thread though?

Hi Michael,
Sorry I butchered my answer, I was trying to agree with you as you had been there and done it, but the "close enough" comment slipped down a little. I will get it as close as I can and see how it goes, I just wont lose sleep over it.

Stuart

[Ueee]

A good point Michael, i just thought like Stu, the closer the better, hence the check with the marko.

All the parts are now clean and primed. The head itself is scraped on 3 of its sides, and where the spindle thrusts behind the front bearing. It was really nice to see once i pulled it from the tub and washed it down, all these scraping marks just appeared.....
Now for bog and sanding, bog and sanding......

Cheers,
Ew

[RayG]

Hi Ewan,

Love looking at your work! the projects are certainly moving along nicely. We've got the Meca rotary table up to about the same stage.. hoping to get some colour on it in the coming days. I reckon the way you are going you might finish before we do.

Can't wait to see it finished. :2tsup:


Regards
Ray

[Michael G]

We've got the Meca rotary table up to about the same stage.. hoping to get some colour on it in the coming days.

You doing a pinky/ mauve colour too Ray, or is that a QLD thing?

Michael

[RayG]

You doing a pinky/ mauve colour too Ray, or is that a QLD thing?

Michael

Hi Michael,

Not wishing to interrupt Ewan's thread, the paint ( if it ever arrives! ) is Industrial Equipment Coatings | Valspar GI (http://www.valsparindustrial.com/submarket_industrial_equipment.jsp) 2 pack epoxy colour is RAL 6011 (https://www.google.com.au/search?q=RAL6011&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=c3fXUeGXCI7uiAe6x4CYDw&ved=0CDEQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=1015)
It's pretty close to the original Meca colour, and of course is the standard "Deckel Reseda Green" so this is a bit of a trial run for the Deckel Restoration Project...

Hi Ewan, What paint are you planning on using for the dividing head?

Regards
Ray

[.RC.]

You doing a pinky

It's LIGHT RED!!!!!

:D:D

[Ueee]

Hi Ewan, What paint are you planning on using for the dividing head?


Hi Ray,
I was just going to use the same as what i did Mlle in, Reseda green rust guard epoxy enamel. I am thinking i might trial putting a clear over it though. As much as i see the merits in 2 pac i have had enough of mixing it and cleaning cleaning out guns etc. It is also far harder to repair properly if the time comes.
All the clears i have used also tend to be tougher than a pigmented colour in the same paint range (my experiance is mostly in poly and acid-catylist), whether it will apply to the epoxy enamel or not i don't know.

Cheers,
Ew

[Ueee]

With some nice weather and so many things on the go i thought i would try and get this finished. I had some problems with the topcoat not gripping the high build primmer properly and getting wrinkles when i put the second coat on......No clear either, the only stuff i could find was satin.

Anyway, i managed to get most of the spraying finished today, yes it has ended up gray as i didn't have enough green left.

I also machined the shaft down for fitting gears to for differential indexing and spiral cutting. It was 1 1/2" but since Mlle's shaft is 20mm i made it the same. What i didn't do is rough it off then let it cool before taking the final cuts:doh:. When i machined it it measured 19.995, same as Mlle's, but now it is cool its more like 19.983. Works out to be around 45 deg difference in the shaft to get that change.....i didn't think it was that hot.....Bump lathe coolant up the list......

Cheers,
Ew

[Steamwhisperer]

Hi Ewan,
first up, bugga on the expansion from heat. Amazing the difference it makes.
Second, I am convinced that while the rest of us get 'shed time', you get 'house time'. Am I correct. :D

Phil

[j.ashburn]

With some nice weather and so many things on the go i thought i would try and get this finished. I had some problems with the topcoat not gripping the high build primmer properly and getting wrinkles when i put the second coat on......No clear either, the only stuff i could find was satin.

Anyway, i managed to get most of the spraying finished today, yes it has ended up gray as i didn't have enough green left.

I also machined the shaft down for fitting gears to for differential indexing and spiral cutting. It was 1 1/2" but since Mlle's shaft is 20mm i made it the same. What i didn't do is rough it off then let it cool before taking the final cuts:doh:. When i machined it it measured 19.995, same as Mlle's, but now it is cool its more like 19.983. Works out to be around 45 deg difference in the shaft to get that change.....i didn't think it was that hot.....Bump lathe coolant up the list......

Cheers,
Ew
Over the years have found many different types of cutting tools. But in my life long quest for tools never found or seen a ''putting back metal on tool'' Cheers nice job as always Ewan. J

[j.ashburn]

Hi Ewan,
first up, bugga on the expansion from heat. Amazing the difference it makes.
Second, I am convinced that while the rest of us get 'shed time', you get 'house time'. Am I correct. :D

Phil
Yes is a lesson once done the mistake is never repeated hopefully? J

[Ueee]

Hi Ewan,
first up, bugga on the expansion from heat. Amazing the difference it makes.
Second, I am convinced that while the rest of us get 'shed time', you get 'house time'. Am I correct. :D

Phil

You think i'm gunna give up my secrets?:rolleyes:

House time, whats that:?:D

Ew

[Ueee]

Well i have had to have some house time over the last week. My wife had 2 wisdom teeth pulled on Monday and she decided that was a good enough excuse to have a slack week.....:rolleyes:

Anyway, shed time this arvo!

Spent some time assembling what i could of the head today, now just waiting for paint to harden. I had to replace all the oilers though, out of 6 i think 1 was usable. They are just sprung ball units, but are 1/2" od, with a 5/8" dia lip. Since i have plenty of 10mm oilers i turned some little brass sleeves for them. Before any one asks, i reamed the 10mm holes to size, after drilling them with the bluntest 25/64" bit i could find......:D

Cheers,
Ew

[Toggy]

Ew,

Nice.

Where did you get the oilers from? They look nice and substantial, not just pressed tin.

Ken

[Ueee]

Hi Ken,
The oilers came from Arc Euro trade Lubrication Accessories - Arc Euro Trade (http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/Lubrication-Accessories)
I bought a fair number of them a while back, but now they are becoming an endangered species in my shed though.

Ew

[Ueee]

Well i got the head pretty well assembled today. Unfortunately there is some paint damage to fix, i'm a little disappointed with the bond that the high build primer has with anything really, be it steel or the topcoat. The local Dulux place now has the stuff Josh is using on the Deckel, and will mix colours on site. I'm going to try it on the Rivett, and if it goes well use it on the LeBlond.
The 130mm chuck looks tiny on the head, i'd forgotten just how big it is once put together. I made a new oil filler bung tonight, it was missing one. I'd like to make a new brass plaque as per the existing one but it will just have to wait. I really like the font of the number stamping, you don't see punches like that these days.
The sector arms have an engraved scale on them, 0-180. For easy setup maybe?
Now i need to make some new dividing plates, the U channel i bought home a few weeks back will be perfect, the short bits just the right size for making mag blocks, and the large flat just right for some plates. Gotta love it when that happens!

Cheers,
Ew

[WCD]

That looks stunning. Your progress with this has been impressive, and inspires me to get a move along with various projects.
Besides which it has been great to follow the details in the journey from apparently decrepit lump to functional showpiece.
Cheers,
Bill

[j.ashburn]

Big plus for the div head Ewan.:2tsup:

[Michael G]

I really like the font of the number stamping, you don't see punches like that these days.


Another option is that if you photograph the numerals they can probably be turned into a font for a pantograph type engraver (like I and I think a few others have) or even something that a CNC machine might be able to do. You could then engrave the dividing plates to match.

Michael

[RayG]

Hi Ewan,

Looks great! I scrolled back a few pages to see what it was like when you first got it, and the amount of work you've done to bring it back to "as new" condition is very impressive. :2tsup:

Regards
Ray

[Anorak Bob]

Ewan has a talent for making most of us feel like we are sitting on our hands.

Well done Ew.

BT

[thorens]

very nicely done EW.
congrat .can't believe you go this far:U

Peter

[Ueee]

Thanks guys:U

I had the BS setup for most of Tuesday arvo cutting up my 250x90 C section. The 250 wide part is being made into 2 dividing plates, and the sides (15mm thick) will probably end up as mag block parts.
The BS needed time and some help, since the cut started so high it the head was about on its balance point...hmmm...bungee cord! I ended up with 2 octagons 210mmish across.

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Gave them a quick hit on the mill to get rid of the remnants of the internal corner radius, then onto the grinder. Now i know why Josh tells me i need auto downfeed......

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I turned a hub up so i could mount the plates once bored

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Then put the plates onto the faceplate to be bored to 1.1875"

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Then i started turning the OD, 60 rpm back gear HSS tool...very slow going whilst the cut was interrupted, but you know you have had a good time when your lathe looks like this and your only half way through!

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I need to pick up some new center drills, i have 18 sets of holes to drill ranging from 15 to 49 i think...lots of holes anyway! Be a pleasure to do on the 8SN though.

Cheers,
Ew

[Michael G]

Then i started turning the OD, 60 rpm back gear HSS tool...very slow going whilst the cut was interrupted, but you know you have had a good time when your lathe looks like this and your only half way through!



I've had occasion to have turned lots of bits of flat stuff into discs at some time or other. I've tried 4, 6 and 8 sides and although it is extra work with the saw I find that 12 sided pieces seem to work best in terms of minimising the interrupted cut thing. The other nice part is that they can be chucked up in either a 3 or 4 jaw chuck too.

Michael