Questions about Block Planes?

[Ticky]

Hi,
I have been wanting to make a block plane for quits a few years now and still havent started it, but I feel the time is drawing near.

I was thinking of using Jarrah for the body, would this be a suitable timber, or is there a better timber to use? I would like to use an Australian timber, but i'm not hard & fast on this.

I also want to make the blade. What grade of steel & thickness of steel would be the best for this?

Thanks


Steve

[Mr Brush]

If this is your first attempt, have you considered going this way:

HNT Gordon and Co Classic Plane Makers Australia (http://www.hntgordon.com.au/prodcatblockkit.htm)

At the very least, I'd suggest buying a ready made quality blade and then making the body of the plane yourself. Suitable blades can be obtained from HNT Gordon, Hock Tools, and several others. Sourcing a small piece of suitable steel and fabricating the blade, just for a one off, will chew up a lot of time and effort.

[Superbunny]

Hock tools make plane kits ready for you to assemble including the blade. I did one and very happy with it, it showed me how to make my own if ever I decide to.:D:D

SB

[Ticky]

Thankyou Mr Brush & Super Bunny, both excellent links.

I would very much like to start from scratch & build it myself. I'll probably build a couple or 3 or possibly more, depending on how much I enjoy it.

I guess, for me it's as much about the journey as the the destination. I imagine I will bugger up a few before I am happy but that would be pretty nomal for me with most projects.

Buying the steel is not a huge problem, nor is the machining.

I like the Krenov style plane, and I am hoping to find a set of plans for one. It sholud be a very interesting little project I think.

Steve

[Berlin]

Steve, I think Jarrah will be fine. For a block plane you could just rummage in the bin at a demolition yard, you'll find heaps of old bits of joist or rafter more than big enough. You won't be able to tell the species with any certainty but I have found some beautiful stuff that way.

I'm interested to see how you go making the blade. It's not something I have ever thought of but with these thing the journey is the destination so I can see it being a very interesting project.

Cheers

[Ticky]

Thanks Irving,

Good tip on the salvage yard. As it happens, I have quite a big stack of very old Jarrah, some of it is over 100years old.

This is one of the reasons I would like to use Jarrah. Another reason is I just love the grain & colour of a nice smooth piece of oiled jarrah. Infact, the only thing I dont like is Jarrah splintters, & I always get splinters whenever I work with Jarrah.

For some reason, they seem to irritate me alot more thn other timbers.


Steve

[Mr Brush]

Ticky - if you really get hooked, there is a good book by David Finck on making all sorts of wooden planes. There is a brief intro in this video:

David Finck: Woodworker | Video Library (http://www.davidfinck.com/videos.htm)

I have a copy of the book, and it is well worth the price of admission.

[Clinton1]

Steve,


Buying the steel is not a huge problem, nor is the machining.

There you open a can of worms...

A lot of people treat carpentry tools with a lot more attention (or respect) than I do.
A plane is a simple tool, it breaks down to a few simple ideas. You'll make one easily.

Normal O1 is fine for the blade, and if you can machine metal, then consider either buying/scavenging some O1 bar or using a scavenged piece of leaf spring. Old time quenching is just fine for O1. (e.g. heat to cherry red and quench in an oil drum)

I think that planes benefit from thicker blades, which means that 4WD leaf spring material is ideally suited. However, factory made blades are only a few mm thick, and they are stiff enough for the purpose.

Any timber that has growth rings at right angles to the plane body is better than ok for the body... hard to describe in words, but think (or research) 1/4 cut timber.
The tighter the growth rings and the older timber the better, IMO.
Jarrah is fine, you don't want timber that will throw long splinters (as it will splinter around the mouth really bad) but surely being an Adelaide lad you can find some 'tight growth ring' 1/4 cut desert timbers? So, any tight, 1/4 cut, stable timber that won't throw a long splinter is ok.

Making a good plane is a lot simpler than cutting a diff gear.... so if machining metal is not a problem for you then making a blade from scratch will be a piece of cake. (and if you can machine up a plane body... then I wish you were my neighbour!)

Here is a link (http://www.monstermarketplace.com/woodworking-supplies/hock-krenov-style-wooden-plane-kit) to a laminated body plane... e.g. 5 cuts on a table saw to make the body. easy peasy. Reverse engineering a plan shouldn't be too hard.
Look forward to the result....

[pmcgee]

Another source of good timber is some of the sad old wooden jointers with broken or no handle that you might see online or at a shop somewhere. (Although some antique shops will believe exactly that is worth slapping say $120 price tag on it. :~ )
Cheers,
Paul

[pmcgee]

Ticky - if you really get hooked, there is a good book by David Finck on making all sorts of wooden planes. There is a brief intro in this video:
David Finck: Woodworker | Video Library (http://www.davidfinck.com/videos.htm)
I have a copy of the book, and it is well worth the price of admission.
Good link!
Paul

[derekcohen]

Have I got a block plane for you!! :U Of course it pays to just look at my website :doh:

Jarrah block plane, 5" long, 1 1/4" wide Mujingfang blade (get them from Lee Valley), bevel down at 40 degrees - that makes this a low angle block plane. It slices end grain with the best LA block planes. (Note that the HNT Gordon block plane is 55 degrees - really a small smoother ... but a sweet little plane. There is a review on my website).

The plane at the front ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaKrenovSmoother_html_276fc580.jpg

I made a couple for the recent LN Tool Event in Perth. Later I upgraded them with brass mouths ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Planes/My%20planes/BlockPlane1_zps650966a0.jpg

There is a pictorial of building a Krenov style plane on my website here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaKrenovSmoother.html

This is a really nice plane. I use one a lot of the time.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ticky]

Ticky - if you really get hooked, there is a good book by David Finck on making all sorts of wooden planes. There is a brief intro in this video:

David Finck: Woodworker | Video Library (http://www.davidfinck.com/videos.htm)

I have a copy of the book, and it is well worth the price of admission.



Thankyou Mr Brush.
I have obtained a copy of that book, but I didn't get the DVD/CD with it. Did you get it with yours, or do you know if it is available to view or download from the forum video library?

I only picked it up, secondhand, this afternoon & have only flicked through it quickly but it looks like it will be well worth having.

Steve

[Ticky]

Making a good plane is a lot simpler than cutting a diff gear.... so if machining metal is not a problem for you then making a blade from scratch will be a piece of cake. (and if you can machine up a plane body... then I wish you were my neighbour!)




Hey Clinton,
Thanks for the advice & The encouragement. I have thought about this for a long time and I'm looking forward to getting into it. The Bad news is, I won't be able to start for a few weeks. The good news is We are escaping the winter & cruising to the tropics. You have to take the good with the bad I always say.

I think I should be clear about the machining not being a problem for me. I have a good mate with a machine shop, & and so... It won't be a problem for me. His machines are really cool, I even know how to turn a couple of them on.



DERIC,

Your planes are a beautiful work of art. I really like the brass insert.

Hopefully, oneday I will be able to make something like that for myself. They would also make wonderful presents to the right people. I have a Brother & a Sister that would really appreciate a nice plane like that. I really hope I can do the idea justice.



Steve

[madcraft]

If this is your first attempt, have you considered going this way:

HNT Gordon and Co Classic Plane Makers Australia (http://www.hntgordon.com.au/prodcatblockkit.htm)

At the very least, I'd suggest buying a ready made quality blade and then making the body of the plane yourself. Suitable blades can be obtained from HNT Gordon, Hock Tools, and several others. Sourcing a small piece of suitable steel and fabricating the blade, just for a one off, will chew up a lot of time and effort.

This is how I went , I brought a block plane kit from HNT and went with Gidge as apposed to jarrah , I remembered reading somewhere that terry settled on Gidgee as his favourite wood for planes . { something along the lines of strength, hardness and the oiliness of the wood }

Hope this helps

[Mr Brush]

Ticky - I just have the book; I bought an autographed copy direct from David Finck. Haven't found a need for the DVD - he does have some very clever tricks that I haven't seen anywhere else, and it is all very well explained in the book.

madcraft - I bet that's one sweet looking plane - I've only heard good reports about Terry's plane kits. Nothing against Mr Hock, but I'd rather support local toolmakers like HNT Gordon if at all possible !

[hiroller]

You can also find some interesting references here:
Library - How To Make Things - Toolemera.com (http://toolemera.com/Books%20%26%20Booklets/booksplans.html)

This includes a PDF copy of one of HOW TO MAKE WOODWORK TOOLS by Charles Hayward. c1945.There are also copies of the Work Magazine articles on pane making which were interestingly posted 4 years prior to them being posted by TFWW last year.
Definitely worth a look.

[Ticky]

Mr Brush,

Autographed copy... was you at a demo? That would be a day to remember.
I had a bit more of a look at David's book today, but still not a good look. I wont get much of a chance between now & when I get back I don't think, but this is going to be an interesting project to get my teeth into I think.

Hiroller,

Interesting link to some nice old books. There should be more of this stuff available I recon.



Steve

[Mr Brush]

hiroller - thanks for posting that link, lots of interesting stuff there.:2tsup:

I just downloaded the Hayward book in pdf, which will be an interesting read just from flicking through it.

Cheers

[GraemeCook]

Suitable blades can be obtained from HNT Gordon, Hock Tools, and several others.


Mr Gordon and Mr Hock have very different philosophical approaches when it comes to blades.

HNT Gordon blades are 6mm thick.

Hock Tool blades are 3/32 inches or 2.4 mm.



Fair Winds

Graeme

[Mr Brush]

Not sure about that - I have a Hock blade for a wooden plane, and it is closer to 5mm:

HOCK TOOLS -- Krenov-style Plane Irons and Plans (http://www.hocktools.com/PI.htm)

3/16" = 4.76mm

I think David Finck resells the Hock blades as well.

The main difference between the HNT and Hock approach to wooden planes is that the Hock blade comes with a chipbreaker, while HNT doesn't use one. Terry's blades do make it easier to build a wooden plane though, as you don't need to cut out a slot from the ramp block to allow for the chipbreaker screw.

[Sawdust Maker]

Happy plane making

Krenov in 'the fine art of Cabinetmaking' sets out how to make one of his planes - try your local library

[GraemeCook]

Not sure about that - I have a Hock blade for a wooden plane, and it is closer to 5mm:

HOCK TOOLS -- Krenov-style Plane Irons and Plans (http://www.hocktools.com/PI.htm)

3/16" = 4.76mm



You are absolutely correct as regards his Krenov-style planes.

However, Hocks block plane blades and his bench plane blades are far thinner at 3/32".

HOCK TOOLS -- Block Plane Blades (http://www.hocktools.com/BL.htm)
HOCK TOOLS -- Bench Plane Blades (http://www.hocktools.com/BP.htm)



Fair Winds

Graeme

[stevebaby]

Hock blades are also available through Hock Plane Blades at The Best Things (http://thebestthings.com/newtools/hock.htm)
He does thicker parallel blades for infill planes, but they aren't shown in his catalogue for some reason. The best things must have an exclusive arrangement with him.
I have a thinner one in a Stanley No.5 and I like it.

[derekcohen]

If the aim is to make a block plane, you do not require a double iron (i.e. blade and chip breaker). It is more expense and extra work when setting up.

I mentioned the following earlier, which appear to have been skipped over ...

You can purchase excellent Mujingfang blades at Lee Valley - perfect for a wooden block plane. They are 1 1/4" wide and 1/8" thick (essentially the same size blade as in the HNT Gordon mini smoother), and the cost is $7.40 USD. Link: Hong Kong-Style Planes - Lee Valley Tools (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=46320&cat=1,41182,46334)

That's about 1/6 the price of a Hock, if purchased overseas (and 1/10 if purchased locally).

Secondly, there are blow-by-blow pictorial instructions on building a wooden Krenov plane on my website. Just set the bed at 40 degrees (the one illustrated is at 55 degrees): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaKrenovSmoother.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[stevebaby]

If the aim is to make a block plane, you do not require a double iron (i.e. blade and chip breaker). It is more expense and extra work when setting up.

I mentioned the following earlier, which appear to have been skipped over ...

You can purchase excellent Mujingfang blades at Lee Valley - perfect for a wooden block plane. They are 1 1/4" wide and 1/8" thick (essentially the same size blade as in the HNT Gordon mini smoother), and the cost is $7.40 USD. Link: Hong Kong-Style Planes - Lee Valley Tools (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=46320&cat=1,41182,46334)

That's about 1/6 the price of a Hock, if purchased overseas (and 1/10 if purchased locally).

Secondly, there are blow-by-blow pictorial instructions on building a wooden Krenov plane on my website. Just set the bed at 40 degrees (the one illustrated is at 55 degrees): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/BuildingaKrenovSmoother.html

Regards from Perth

DerekI unfortunately can't remember where I read the review, but someone tested various plane blades a few years ago, microscope pics etc., and the reviewer's conclusion was that the Mujingfang blade was the sharpest blade tested out of the box. Other planes in the test were from Lie Nielsen and Lee valley. I like mine very muck.

[brontehls]

You can also find some interesting references here:
Library - How To Make Things - Toolemera.com (http://toolemera.com/Books%20%26%20Booklets/booksplans.html)

This includes a PDF copy of one of HOW TO MAKE WOODWORK TOOLS by Charles Hayward. c1945.There are also copies of the Work Magazine articles on pane making which were interestingly posted 4 years prior to them being posted by TFWW last year.
Definitely worth a look.

I just realised that the pdf of haywards book is from a copy soldd at Alberts (I miss them) in Perth

The good stuff just moves around

Neil