Metrology

[rogerbaker]

Hi Guys
Just a curiosity question at this stage.
How many would be interested in a tour of the CSIRO metrology Lab in Melbourne?
What we would see will depend a little on what they are doing at the Time.

Roger

[Stustoys]

Yes please.

Stuart

[RayG]

I'd be up for that... depending on dates and times...

Regards
Ray

[Brobdingnagian]

I'm interested.

[neksmerj]

Would love to come providing it's a Tuesday, Thursday, or Saturday. Other days I'm strapped in a chair, so annoying.

Ken

[Machtool]

I'd be interested also.

Regards Phil.

[jhovel]

Yes please! Count me in!

[Big Shed]

That would be well worth driving down to Melbourne for, yes please:2tsup:

[Steamwhisperer]

You can put my name down as well.

Phil

[j.ashburn]

Hi please include me for consideration Cheers John.

[harty69]

For sure

Cheers harty

[rogerbaker]

Hi All
For your information my Son is one of their engineers and has "volunteered" to show us through.
I am trying to organise two tours.
One during the day when there will be things happening and one in the evening (mainly for those that are unable to attend during working hours).
The plan at the moment is on a Thursday for the day tour and a Monday night for the other.

Any comments?

Roger

[neksmerj]

Any Thursday is fine by me, I'm in.

Ken

[jhovel]

Thursdays is good for me too.

[HavinaGo]

yes please. The Thursday sounds good.

[Stustoys]

Either is fine with me, or both :D
Over Monash way?

Stuart

[RayG]

Hi Roger,

Thanks for taking the time to organize this. :2tsup:

Josh and I should be good for either. Where is it?

Regards
Ray

[j.ashburn]

Thursdays is good for me too.

Thursday for me suits thanks.John.

[dave4]

Hi, count me in thanks, I could work around a Thursday.

[damian]

I worked at NML at west lindfield for years. That facility was built at great expense in the 70's to house and maintain the national measurement standards.

In order to routinely measure to parts in ten million and occasionally much higher we needed stability, including long histories of the instruments in one location.

Then a smart a$%^ manager decided he preferred living in melbourne and a whole load of stuff got moved down there.

Real smart. So clever. Decades of patient work out the window.

Not that I'm bitter...Sigh...

Sorry to be so negative. I spent last month in hospital and am still quite sick, but I also get annoyed when people I used to work with dedicate a lifetime to perfecting our standards only to get it all flushed on a whim.

I'm happy your son has a job with them. CSIRO isn't the organization it once was but it's probably still a pretty good job for the right person ( incredibly fussy on details ).

[rogerbaker]

Hi Guys
I will know tomorrow whether it is on this coming Thursday or the following one.
My sons boss returns from holidays tomorrow and as soon as I know I will post details.
It will be in Port Melbourne and around 2PM

Roger

[rogerbaker]

Hi Guys
Its on this coming Thursday 1/153 Bertie St Port Melbourne.
My Son would like to start the tour at 1430 so I suggest that we meet there around 1400 so that we can all meet each other and also have a little leeway for traffic hold-ups etc.
Please let me know that you are coming. He is expecting about 12 people

Roger

[Stustoys]

Great news Roger
I'm in.
Any hints on parking?

Stuart

[harty69]

excellent news count me in also

cheers
Harty

[rogerbaker]

According to my son there shouldnt be a problem parking in the street

Roger

[jhovel]

Oh bugger :o:o
I'm flying to Cairns on Thursday at 10:30......
I hope this event gets repeated! PLEASE!!! :U

[j.ashburn]

Will see you there Thursday thanks John.

[CGroves]

Missed this thread. Any chance tagging along?

Christian

[Jayson]

If there is room I would like to tag along also. Thanks for organizing this.

Regards,

Jayson.

[Machtool]

I wont be able to make it. I'll be finish packing a machine that gets loaded Friday.

Regards Phil.

[neksmerj]

This Thursday at 2:00pm is fine by me, see yawl there.

Just consulted Dr Google for a map and now know what the place looks like.

Ken

[RayG]

Hi Roger,

Count Josh and Myself in. ( and thanks! )

Regards
Ray

[Stustoys]

Count Josh and Myself in. ( and thanks! )

You two havent built a teleporter and not told anyone have you? :D

Stuart

[RayG]

You two havent built a teleporter and not told anyone have you? :D

Stuart

No, it's a time machine... I'll start a new thread later with the construction details.. :)

Regards
Ray

PS Thanks for the coffee yesterday!

[.RC.]

I think Ray has got a private jet to get him to Canberra the same day.... :D

Ray it is on the internet now, forever immortalized ... We are not going to let you forget your gaff... :D:D

[rogerbaker]

Christian and Jayson
As a couple of the originals have dropped out I would say that you both are IN.
For those that have dropped out I will try and organise another tour.

Roger

[HavinaGo]

Roger,

apologies from me for this Thursday.... got volunteered to help mind a young'un.
Thanks to your son and your good self for making it happen.

[neksmerj]

Hi Roger, I'm sorry but I must pull out due to unexpected additional work commitments.

Ken

[CGroves]

Hello Roger,

Thanks, i'll see you there.

Regard, Christian

[Steamwhisperer]

I tried very hard to get the time off but the boiler refit is taking up too much of my time.:((
Have a great day gentlemen.
Big thanks for organizing this Roger.

Phil

[j.ashburn]

Hi all my:- apologies for a no show. i didnt have a contact number to call any one.Got to castlemaine and the old car decided to get a bit warm.Typical mechanics car :(( the old story plumbers got leaking taps cobblers kids got no shoes. hope you gents had an enjoyable visit. John.

[Stustoys]

Thanks again to Roger for organising a great tour.
And to the gentlemen and lady who talked us through what they do there.

Wish I had spent more time on this picture. Loses some detail went converted.

Stuart

[RayG]

Thanks to Roger and his son for a fascinating look into the esoteric world of high end metrology, :2tsup: so much precision and exotic gear in the one place it was a bit overwhelming.

The Taylor Hobson roundness machine was one of the stars of the show...

The picture that Stuart posted is of a kilogram standard made of Silicon, there was a guy in Sydney who could make these, mostly hand polished, and the roundest thing you'd every be likely so see.

I'll put up some pictures in a few days.

Regards
Ray

[harty69]

what Ray and Stuart said x10

great day out

cheers
Harty

[Jayson]

^^^ what they said. A huge thanks to all involved. It was a very enjoyable day.
Regards

Jayson

[BobL]

.
.
.
The picture that Stuart posted is of a kilogram standard made of Silicon, there was a guy in Sydney who could make these, mostly hand polished, and the roundest thing you'd every be likely so see.

Pics would be good.

FWIW back in 2002 I worked for 9 months in the Belgian Lab that measured the isotopic composition of the Silicon in those balls.

[CGroves]

Thanks Roger for organising the tour. As the others said it was a great day out.

I think Ray and Josh with their purchases are going to give the NMI a run for their money.

Need some more Renishaw gear?
Renishaw ML10 XL80 Laser Interferometer Calibration Optics Machine Tools CMMS | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Renishaw-ML10-XL80-Laser-Interferometer-Calibration-Optics-Machine-Tools-CMMs-/200941268510?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec9086e1e)

Christian

[Brobdingnagian]

Great day.... I could have spent a week hanging out in the dimensional lab. Some of their gear is simply stunning. Seeing the graph of the room temperature go up as we walked around the various work stations was quite interesting. The slings and arrows of the metrology lab; "you give too much body heat".
-J

[harty69]

some pictures here (http://petensneak.com/zenphoto/suff/mni-visit/)



cheers
Harty

[.RC.]

Thanks for the pictures.... I can only imagine that building is sitting on a HUGE slab of concrete.... Or probably more to the point, many slabs of very very thick concrete all isolated from one another...

[harty69]

Hi RC

No i asked that question and the answer was the slab is what was already there which was an old warehouse all they did where vibration tests

cheers
Harty

[Anorak Bob]

Thank you for the wonderful photos Peter. :2tsup:

Bob.

[Stustoys]

Can't add a lot to the pictures
Someone like to explain this way to me? looks strange.
A nice idea to save you counting turns.
The sides of one of the main plates, I asked what they were for and I think he said you can tweak the plate, but maybe I missunderstood.
One of the large plates was 3 point, the other was four point. Well so Josh said I didnt look under the first one.
Shame none of the optics on this machine are used anymore.

Stuart

[Michael G]

Someone like to explain this way to me? looks strange.
A nice idea to save you counting turns.


Damn it Stuart! For the last year you guys have been saying I should get a DRO so I don't lose count of the turns. I finally lash out and buy one and now you post something simple and mechanical like this.:doh:

I imagine the drum with the spiral cut is on a shaft so it can be "zeroed" against the pointer. The spiral pitch would be the same as the leadscrew. 2 and a bit turns would be 2 lines of the spiral + the remanent on the dial.

Michael

[Stustoys]

Hi Michael,
Sorry cant really add much to the picture I dont even think we talked about what this machine did. There was a lot of "old stuff" around that didnt get used anymore.. like a metric Mit master height gage :(. Josh and I were just having a sticky. I cant say if or how it is adjusted(though it could be made the same as any other mill dial) there was a lot of texta marks on it. The only other thing I can think of ATM is that the pitch of the leadscrew doesnt matter. The pointer is free to slide at what ever pitch is on the dial. Look on the bright side, doesnt fix backlash errors.

Stuart

[rogerbaker]

For those that are interested the BBC did a 3 part series called "Precision" which is about the history of National Standards.
The Silicon Ball was commissioned by the Yanks to a guy in Sydney to make. Apparently it took about 4 months of polishing to get it right. If you enlarged the ball to the diameter of the Earth, the highest hill would be about 2 metres.

Roger

[Ueee]

For those that are interested the BBC did a 3 part series called "Precision" which is about the history of National Standards.
The Silicon Ball was commissioned by the Yanks to a guy in Sydney to make. Apparently it took about 4 months of polishing to get it right. If you enlarged the ball to the diameter of the Earth, the highest hill would be about 2 metres.

Roger

Thats pretty amazing...considering your average snooker ball, which seems awfully round, has mountains and valleys about twice as high as the earth does. (if it was that size of course)

So....how do they measure a sphere for round? With the talyrond on many different axis?

Good pics Harty. How big was that t slotted box square/table?

Cheers,
Ew

[Michael G]

I cant say if or how it is adjusted(though it could be made the same as any other mill dial) there was a lot of texta marks on it. The only other thing I can think of ATM is that the pitch of the leadscrew doesnt matter. The pointer is free to slide at what ever pitch is on the dial. Look on the bright side, doesnt fix backlash errors.


I think you have nailed it Stuart. The texta marks are to mark the starting point. While the pointer can slide, I think it would be pitched the same as the machine as it counts the turns. That way you know that when you are two lines away from the texta mark you have done two turns.
When I get back to a place with a scanner I'll do a sketch.

Michael

[Stustoys]

I think it would be pitched the same as the machine as it counts the turns. That way you know that when you are two lines away from the texta mark you have done two turns.

But a turn is a turn is a turn, regardless of pitch. So if you had say a 0.5mm pitch on the leadscrew you could still have a 5mm pitch on the dial so that you have room to write. Two turns will be 1mm even though the pointer has moved 10mm. We'll have to get back in there and have a better look :D

[Anorak Bob]

For those that are interested the BBC did a 3 part series called "Precision" which is about the history of National Standards.
The Silicon Ball was commissioned by the Yanks to a guy in Sydney to make. Apparently it took about 4 months of polishing to get it right. If you enlarged the ball to the diameter of the Earth, the highest hill would be about 2 metres.

Roger


Precision: The Measure of All Things, BBC Four | TV reviews, news & interviews | The Arts Desk (http://www.theartsdesk.com/tv/precision-measure-all-things-bbc-four)

[BobL]

Precision: The Measure of All Things, BBC Four | TV reviews, news & interviews | The Arts Desk (http://www.theartsdesk.com/tv/precision-measure-all-things-bbc-four)

Some pretty scathing comments about the program at the end of that page. Criticisms regarding confusion between force and energy, and between accuracy and precision by the presenter. If correct maybe not as good as it sounds.

[RayG]

A few more pictures..

The temperature monitoring overview..

278672

Nice little Tesa.. apparently not rigid enough..
278673

B&S CMM system with Renishaw probe... note the calibration ball on the table.

278674278675

Something to aspire to... :)
278676

Regards
Ray

[RayG]

Precision: The Measure of All Things, BBC Four | TV reviews, news & interviews | The Arts Desk (http://www.theartsdesk.com/tv/precision-measure-all-things-bbc-four)

Thanks BT, I've only watched part 2 so far, but it's fascinating stuff, the part about the Australian guy who does the polishing on the silicon is just unbelievable, to think that someone can do that sort of work just by feel is mind boggling...

so far beyond what is possible with machines ... the guy from the German Metrology Institute said he must be able to "feel' the atomic structure to get that level of precision.

A bit more from Roundest objects in the world created - tech - 01 July 2008 - New Scientist (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14229-roundest-objects-in-the-world-created.html#.UfN4kiEW1V8)

Smooth and roundThe ACPO team used techniques similar to the way Isaac Newton ground lenses for his telescopes 300 years ago. Opticians manipulated two spinning rotors to grind the surface by hand. After months of sanding, the team produced two spheres with diameters of 93.75 millimetres.
The mass of each sphere matches that of the Australian copy of the kilogram. The small-scale roughness of the balls varies by only 0.3 nanometres, and their curvature by 60 to 70 nanometres.
"If you were to blow up our spheres to the size of the Earth, you would see a small ripple in the smoothness of about 12 to 15 mm, and a variation of only 3 to 5 metres in the roundness," Leistner told New Scientist.
This kind of roundness was not possible 20 years ago, according to Leistner, because we could not see variations on this scale. Also, advances in computer processing have improved the speed at which data can be decoded from measuring devices such as the talyrond, a spindle-like instrument that rotates around the ball and can detect deviations from perfect roundness down to about 5 nanometres. That allows researchers to quickly correct any imperfections they find.

The Taylor Hobson Talyrond they are referring to is the same type as the instrument that you can see in Harty's pictures that's in the big glass case. Measurements down to 5 nanometers is no mean feat... that's 0.005 microns.. !! :) Even our Laser interferometer maxes out at 10 nanometers.. although we could always roll out the x36 resolution extender I guess...

And this guy Achim Leistner does 0.3 nanometers by feel...

http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn14229/dn14229-1_250.jpg

Image from New Scientist link above..

Regards
Ray

[BobL]

One of the aims of the Si Sphere Project was to remove the need for the Standard kg which is the last artefact based fundamental quantity.
The proposal was to use the spheres to help define Avagadro's number and hence the mole and thus define mass via the mole.
The Chemists like this as it defines the mole in terms of entities and that's what chemists think of (atoms + molecules)

The Physicists have different ideas and have proposed that mass be defined using E= m c^2.
"c" is known to a great number of significant figures and E can also be measured electrically with high precision so m can down be defined better than using an artefact.
Many chemists do not like this as their concept of entities takes a back seat over the cumulative or statistical methods of physicists.
However, the world wide body representing chemists (the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry or IUPAC) accepted this proposal last year.
The ramifications of this decision is still being examined by National measurement institutes worldwide but is expected to be ratified in a year or two's time.

[Oldneweng]

One of the aims of the Si Sphere Project was to remove the need for the Standard kg which is the last artefact based fundamental quantity.
The proposal was to use the spheres to help define Avagadro's number and hence the mole and thus define mass via the mole.
The Chemists like this as it defines the mole in terms of entities and that's what chemists think of (atoms + molecules)

The Physicists have different ideas and have proposed that mass be defined using E= m c^2.
"c" is known to a great number of significant figures and E can also be measured electrically with high precision so m can down be defined better than using an artefact.
Many chemists do not like this as their concept of entities takes a back seat over the cumulative or statistical methods of physicists.
However, the world wide body representing chemists (the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry or IUPAC) accepted this proposal last year.
The ramifications of this decision is still being examined by National measurement institutes worldwide but is expected to be ratified in a year or two's time.

I like this concept but can anyone explain to me how I can calibrate my scales using E=mc2? I clearly remember and understand moles from school chemistry but the theory of relativity was always just a concept which I just had to accept as the theory of a great man even t5ho I had no real understanding of the mechanics so to speak. That great man, so I was told lamented later in life that he had only had one good idea in his life! He also did not care what colour socks he wore. I like it.

Dean

[BobL]

I like this concept but can anyone explain to me how I can calibrate my scales using E=mc2? I clearly remember and understand moles from school chemistry but the theory of relativity was always just a concept which I just had to accept as the theory of a great man even t5ho I had no real understanding of the mechanics so to speak. That great man, so I was told lamented later in life that he had only had one good idea in his life! He also did not care what colour socks he wore. I like it.

Dean

No "everyday" body one uses the 1 Kg artefact that is held in Paris as "The kilogram" to calibrate their scales either.
The current standard kg(s) (there are more than one) is used to calibrate secondary standard masses and these are used to calibrate tertiary standard or calibration weights etc, so that finally sets of calibration weights are made up for sale to anyone that wants to check their scales.
All that the new definition will do is change the first step. It will not change the existing calibrations weights that are already in used

[Oldneweng]

No "everyday" body one uses the 1 Kg artefact that is held in Paris as "The kilogram" to calibrate their scales either.
The current standard kg(s) (there are more than one) is used to calibrate secondary standard masses and these are used to calibrate tertiary standard or calibration weights etc, so that finally sets of calibration weights are made up for sale to anyone that wants to check their scales.
All that the new definition will do is change the first step. It will not change the existing calibrations weights that are already in used

Thanks for that explanation Bob, buuutt you do keep taking the bait LOL.

Cheers

Dean

PS I was a science nerd at school and I still remember most of it now!

[BobL]

Thanks for that explanation Bob, buuutt you do keep taking the bait LOL.
Cheers
Dean
PS I was a science nerd at school and I still remember most of it now!

Happy to take the hook. Seeing as I'm on an international Scientific Panel that discusses these things it's sort of part of my brief to promote this stuff any way. :)
In fact in two weeks time I'll be going to Turkey for exactly this.

[.RC.]

How do they measure a kg?

I thought a kg was solely dependent on gravity and gravity varies every so slightly at different places in the world...

[RayG]

How do they measure a kg?

I thought a kg was solely dependent on gravity and gravity varies every so slightly at different places in the world...

Hi .RC.

Well there's Kg mass and Kg force, a Kg mass is still a Kg even when weightless in outer space, a Kg force is the force exerted by earth's gravity on a 1 Kg mass...

How do you measure a Kg, well that's the real problem. You use a balance and compare the unknown mass with a known standard.... what is the standard...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsqE9VYiu_I

Regards
Ray

[BobL]

How do they measure a kg?
I thought a kg was solely dependent on gravity and gravity varies every so slightly at different places in the world...

Mass and it's unit the kg has very little to do with gravity.
Mass it is simply an amount of material.

The Standard kg is a specific amount of mass and defined by a lump of metal in Paris.
The Standard is then cross referenced to a bunch of secondary standards that are all are sent to Paris and their weight is measured (under the same conditions under the same value of gravity) relative to The Standard.
These secondary standards can then go anywhere in the world and have other tertiary standards referenced against any one of them, once under the same conditions. The value of gravity may be different from one location to another but as long as the comparisons are made against a known standard all in the same location that has been correctly referenced all the way back up the chain it will be correct.

A good quality lab balance will also have inside it a certified calibration weight so balances can be moved anywhere and calibrated and still read correctly.

Measuring mass can be a serious business. I posted this a few years ago

As an aside I worked in a, Institute lab in Europe where all critical weighings that had to be certified were done by one guy (a weighing metrologist). To weigh critical amounts you had to book the guy a week in advance and he would turn up the evening before and park his trolley with all his gear in the lab where the measurements were to be done (temperature stabilization). He'd also set up a large transparent air tight glove box on a weighing bench made of marble and place everything inside the box and flood the box with Argon (minimizes buoyancy effect). Then he would set up 3 digital logging thermometers, and a set of weak radioactive sources inside the tent to minimize static. Access to the stuff inside was via the gloves. Outside the box he'd set up a laptop that logged the temp and air pressure and balance readings - he usually used 2 balances (and he had a spare one his trolley just in case)

Next morning he would check the argon pressure and temp stabilization before calibrating the balances - everything he did on the balances was logged on the laptop. Then he would do the weighings. Each sample was then weighed 10 times on each balance and stats determined. Then he would do this 3 times or until he got 3 sets of results that agreed with each other. iInally he would recalibrate the balances. No one was allowed to be in the room with him while he did the calibrations and weighings. For a single sample this took at least 2 hours. Then he would type up a brief report and put the report with all the data on the central server for general access.

The weighings were done this way because some of the results often had legal ramifications and the last thing needed was for these measurements to be disputed in court.

[Oldneweng]

Thanks Bob. A bit of detailed background on how it happens. Fleshes out the knowledge one already has. I would have liked to do a tour of this site. Maybe one day.

Dean

[rogerbaker]

Hi Guys
There will be another tour in about 3 or 4 weeks time. I have been talking with my Son who is happy to do another shortly.
I have a list of 6 that missed the last one for various reasons and I will put them in first. I reckon we can probably fit in another 6 if anyone else is interested.

On my list are
JHovel
Machtool
Havinago
Neksmerj
Steamwhisperer
and J Ashburn

Anyone else?

Roger

[BobL]

Hi .RC.

. . . . . . ., a Kg force is the force exerted by earth's gravity on a 1 Kg mass...


The earth's gravity varies depending location so a kg force or weight varies accordingly.
There is something called a "standard kg weight" uses the "standard acceleration due to gravity" which is . . . . . .
Enough I think?

No wait, . . . . . "kg" is all lower case. All the order of magnitude prefixes are lower case except for a million and above.
One of the most commonly misspelt abbreviations for units is the humble millilitre (mL)
My favourite volume is the "yoctolitre" (yL) which is a cubic nanometre (nm)3 , although the "zetalitre" (zL) or cubic megametre is pretty awesome!

Blimey, it's starting to sound like Sheldon (from Big Bang) speak

[Michael G]

Hi Guys
There will be another tour in about 3 or 4 weeks time. I have been talking with my Son who is happy to do another shortly.
I have a list of 6 that missed the last one for various reasons and I will put them in first. I reckon we can probably fit in another 6 if anyone else is interested.

On my list are
JHovel
Machtool
Havinago
Neksmerj
Steamwhisperer
and J Ashburn

Anyone else?

Roger

Love to be there. If I can get enough notice I may be able to swing a day off work and fly in for the day.

Michael

[jmebgo]

Count me in too.

Thanks,
Joe

[Machtool]

I have a list of 6 that missed the last one for various reasons and I will put them in first.
Hello Roger.

I would have loved to go to the first one, but I'm away in Townsville on a job. Count me in for a second oportunity.

Regards Phil.

[jhovel]

Hi Phil.
That's some bloody coincidence: I couldn't go because I flew up to Townsville to visiti my son Tyson last Thursday. I arrived back home this evening.
We could have met up! Pity.....
See you at the CSIRO facility then... :)

[steamingbill]

I would like to go and have a look please.

Off to qld all next week but after that I'd be available


Bill

[rogerbaker]

Hi Guys
The next tour is on Thursday 22nd August.
Location is the National Measurement Institute (used to be CSIRO)
1/153 Bertie St Port Melbourne
2.30pm

Roger

[Steamwhisperer]

I'm in Roger,
Even if I have to quit to get the day off :D (like that'll happen)

Phil

[Michael G]

Roger, how long is the tour usually time wise? I need to look at flights etc.

Michael

[rogerbaker]

[QUOTE=Michael G;1680780]Roger, how long is the tour usually time wise? I need to look at flights etc.

The last one was around 2 hours.
We finished around 4.30 which puts us in peak traffic
Roger

[j.ashburn]

Would like to attend too please First try was a disaster will train it next time Thanks John.

[rogerbaker]

Hi guys
Just a reminder that the 2nd ( and last organised by me) is on next Thursday 22nd August at 1430.
National Measurement Institute 1/153 Bertie St Port Melbourne.

I have places for
JHovel
Machtool
Havinago
Neksmerj
Steamwhisperer
JAshburn
MichaelG
jmebgo
Steaming bill.

We can probably squeeze in another 1 or 2 unless someone cancells.

PS The reason for this being the last tour is purely I dont want to lean on my son too much in case his boss gets a bit shirty. It is costing them productive time etc.

Roger

[jhovel]

Tremendous!
John (JAshburn): I'm happy to pick you up on my way through. PM or call me.

[Michael G]

Sadly, it's not looking good for me at the moment.
Other people are making appointments for me all around that day, so if there is someone more certain of their attendance who wants the spot please say so.

Michael

[steamingbill]

Roger,

Thanks for organising this.

Am definitely coming.

See you tomorrow.

Bill

[Machtool]

Hello Roger.

I'm happy to confirm I'm in. See you at 2.30 tomorrow afternoon.

To the other Gypsies that know me. I'm semi fluid in the morning. I'll be in the shop. Dumplings and car pooling from here?

Or sandwich and a quick catch up some where close to Port Melbourne. You have my number 0412 555 326.

Regards Phil.

[Michael G]

Sadly, I'm a no show. Would have liked to have seen and caught up.
Sorry Guys.
Thank to Roger for taking the time to arrange though.

Michael

[Steamwhisperer]

Hello Roger.

I'm happy to confirm I'm in. See you at 2.30 tomorrow afternoon.

To the other Gypsies that know me. I'm semi fluid in the morning. I'll be in the shop. Dumplings and car pooling from here?

Or sandwich and a quick catch up some where close to Port Melbourne. You have my number 0412 555 326.

Regards Phil.

Hi Phil,
looks like you will have at least one visitor. I am calling in to see Christian to say hi so I will come around after that.

Phil

[Machtool]

I am calling in to see Christian to say hi so I will come around after that.
My place from his, is almost going backwards. NewPort to here. Coming in from the West. I can meet you out that way. I'm half certian Christian, could find a coffee for us both. Call me mid morning..

Regards The other Phil

[jmebgo]

I too can confirm that I will be there. It will be good to put faces to names.

Joe

[CGroves]

Phils, no problem if you want to meet up at my place before hand.

Christian

[BobL]

Happy to take the hook. Seeing as I'm on an international Scientific Panel that discusses these things it's sort of part of my brief to promote this stuff any way. :)
In fact in two weeks time I'll be going to Turkey for exactly this.

Just an update on the science meetings I attended in Turkey.
67 countries, ~ 500 people, ~30 meetings ranging from 1 hour to two days. There was also a large (1000+ attendees) conference running at the same time but I was not involved with this.

The full decision on the confirmation of the proposed redefinitions of the fundamental scientific quantities has been put off until 2018.
This has enabled the group I am in to set up a project to further investigate the impact of the proposed changes - something we should have done earlier.
A subgroup I am involved with reviewed 54 scientific publications from the last 2 years and proposes to change the atomic weight of 19 elements. Mostly increased in the number of decimal places and smaller uncertainties, not significant for most practical situations but useful for some researchers. I can't say which elements as this will be part of a press release.

On the last two days there was a meeting of the overarching admin group with most of the ~250 people representing their country. It's sort of UN style- members sit grouped by country with the name of the country on each table. I was one of 4 in the Aussie delegation with the others being from Canberra, Sydney and Brisbane.

Australia was up against Brazil for hosting the 2017 Meet/conference. The presentation was given by the President of the Royal Australian Chemical Society and although the Aussies gave a superior presentation, because Australia hosted the meeting in Brisbane in 2001 and South America has never hosted, the Brazilians won easily. One of the scandinavians came up to me afterwards and good humouredly said "Another Gallipoli for Australia!"
As I have been involved on a voluntary basis indirectly for 11 years and directly for 10 years I reckon I have served my time and am well and truly ready to hang up my boots.

I managed to get a couple of days off in between meetings and there are a few travel snaps here
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f125/where-am-i-right-now-174682/

[neksmerj]

Unable to attend due to unexpected medical appointment.

Very, very sorry for such late notice.

Ken

[Timless Timber]

Yebbut, what if the elements gorge themselves between now and 2018 - and put on weight? :?

:wink:

[Michael G]

As I saw on a T shirt -
"You can't trust Atoms - they make up everything"

Michael

[jmebgo]

It was a great day. I would recommend it to anyone if the opportunity arises again. It was also good to finally meet the people behind the names on the forum.

Thank you Roger for organising it.

Joe

[jhovel]

A few photos of the guys attending today and some of the great gear we saw.
A brilliant afternoon! Thank you very much again for inviting us Roger!
282063 signing in
282064 1mx1mx1m envelope 3D measuring
282065 very old Swiss height gauge - now used with a laser for precise length measurements
282066 large optical laser measuring setup for precision flatness and optical graduation measurements
282067 a room full of flatness metrology gear
282068 single wavelength illuminator for flatness comparison within sub-wavelength tolerances
282069 interference fringe strips identifying two very accurate optical flats sitting on top of each other. Pushing in ine side of one of them showed these stipes (fringes) being distorted
282070 a precision Mahr bench micrometer that is made up from too many materials with different thermal expansion coefficients to be of any use. John and I thought it would be a good basis for a nice little precision lathe :)
282071 presision roundness measuring gear and a refence precision hemisphere for calibration
282072 our guide, Roger's son, holding the Australian standard Kilogram - a silicon sphere. He looks like he has just dropped it - and tells us it is worthless because it is cracked inside somewhere. And to top it off, the guy who made it is now retired.....

Cheers,
Joe