No 80 cabinet scraper sharpening

[soundman]

I am now the proud owner of a KUNZ no 80 scraper.
I have seen that some will sharpen this type with a 45 deg some with a square & turned bur. Whats the go.
I wacked a search in & there is just acres of sharpening.
The blade as comes is totaly raw.
cheers

[routermaniac]

I cant help you with that but let us know how you go, I was looking at the kunz as well...

[craigb]

I have the Veritas version of this. Their blade comes ground at 45 degress but not honed. You need to hone it and then turn a burr.

Maybe the LV web site will have the instruction booklet? I'd scan mine for you but I don't have a scanner.

[Pat]

Craig, how does the veritas scraper go? I am evaluating the various scrapers around before I shell out the readies :) , hopefully at the sydney WWW show.

Thanks

[derekcohen]

Hi Soundman

I have both a Stanley and a Kunz #80 and there really is not much I can notice that separates the two in performance.

I also cannot say much about the original blades since I always find these too thin, and make my own (out of old circular saw blades). Anyway my Stanley was purchased from a stall and came without a blade.

The blade thickness is pertinent since a thicker blade will better support a lower grind angle, which is the direction I am going in. The recommended grind angle for scraper planes (include my #112 here) is 45 degrees. I suspect that this is traditional because the old, original (Stanley) blades were quite thin. Further, the blades are honed without a hook, so the sharper the blade the better it will cut. As an experiment, just use a sharp chisel or plane blade as a cabinet scraper. It should be a fantastic job.

The problem with 45 degrees is that the blade does not get that sharp. Certainly, this is the contention as well of Terry Gordon (HNT Gordon), who prefers 30 degrees for his plane blades.

So the answer is, try experimenting with an angle between 30 - 45 degrees. It will come down to the thickness of your blade. 30 degrees will give a sharper edge than 45 degrees. Neither will last that long anyway, so I don't think that 45 degrees is more durable (although it is probably a little better at handling the build up of heat). 30 degrees is easier to sharpen as well (more surface area if you are freehanding, and none of the guides calculate 45 degrees).

You could also try out a thin blade-with-a-hook. I have had success with these too.

What ever you choose, just note that the blade is sharpened with the same care given to a plane blade - the timber surface will reflect the level of smoothness given the blade's cutting edge.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[craigb]

Craig, how does the veritas scraper go? I am evaluating the various scrapers around before I shell out the readies :) , hopefully at the sydney WWW show.

Thanks

Well I really like mine :) It works very well. I think Veritas say that their version has a slightly bigger base than the original Stanley.

I can't compare it to a Stanley or Kunz as I've not used one of those.

It's made to Lee Valley's usual high standards.

The blade is about 1.2 mm thick. Don't know how that compares to the others

Hope that is some help.
Craig

[soundman]

So are we saying that sharpening at 45deg (or so ) is the go.
Seems not turning a bur is the method?
Has anybody tried it with & without turning the bur. :confused:
The blade that came with mine is relatively thick compared to a hand scraper but quite thin in comparison to a plane iron.
I WILL be sharpening & tuning this item tomorrow so I will then see.

RE previous KUNZ experiences.
I baught a very near new kunz spoke shave some time ago & found thet it took quite a bit of tuning.

The only machined part of the no80 seems to be the sole. I would have expected the area where the blade seats to be ground?

thaughts?

[soundman]

Just been doing some paralell surfing & came up with this page.
http://www.brendlers.net/oldtools/scraping/scraper.htm
I havn't yet read all the poop but they certainly recomend turning the bur.
reasearch continues :cool:

[craigb]

I havn't yet read all the poop but they certainly recomend turning the bur.


So do Veritas.

[Schtoo]

So do I.

I don't own any of the mentioned animals, but I did make my own. I use thin blades in it and also have a thick iron I need to make a new cap iron to suit it so I can use it.

With the thin blades I hone them at 45* so they will still shave dry hair without pulling. If you can't do that, then either do more work in your sharpening or don't worry about it. ;) Once honed, a drop of oil on the burnisher and a swipe or two depending on how aggresive I want it to cut.

I have tried it without a burr, but on the thin blades it tends to chatter and skip rather than cut. Maybe with a thicker blade it might not need a burr, but on the thin blades I use (0.4mm or so), they need a burr.

[peter byrne]

I have an original instruction leaflet for the Stanley #80. 45 degrees it is.

My experience for the burr - a drop of oil on the burnisher and don't push too hard

Regards

[soundman]

While I was off line I consulted the scriptures.
The book of HACK, chapter 9.
I paraphrase in the authorised version.
If thou hast scraper No80 or its like thou shalt sharpen at 45 deg that being the devine angle. Thence thou shalt strike the edge with the burnisher thrice each time increasing the angle. Woe betide he who strikes too hard for he will bugger the edge.
Thus ends the reading.

Anyway Sharpened up the blade & turned the bur. mmm a bit cahttery.
flatened the sole & more importantly the surface that the blade rests on. much better.
I still need to refine my sharpening method because I don't believe I got it sharp enough.
I need some sort of 45 deg jig.
Thinking.

Tried the blade without turning the bur. Trust me you turn the bur.
cheers

[JDarvall]

Personally I prefer to avoid the tool....... I have a stanley version with origional blade and had it real sharp and burnished and it worked a treat for about 2 minutes then it needed reburnishing again, 2 more minutes, then sharpened again etc.... the burr didn't last long enough,,,,, So I suspect the blade in your Kunz may give you the same problem.............and it makes sense to......scrapers are used when your woods too too irregular to plane without tearout right, which probably means its hard wearing as well.....so if your plane blades wear too quickly then your scrapers probably will as well....maybe I should be more observent but usually when the scrapers are brought out its because I've made a big bloody tear in my work with my regular plane..so deep that I have to spend the rest of the day getting it out.......I mean, in my opinion, if you want a flatter finish than that given with a card scraper, you'll probably better off just machining the lot and patch up with your card scraper and just grin and bear that little hollow it creates (that no-one but us perfectionists even notice),,,, and card scrapers are just so much easier to use don't you think ? 4 edges from one sharpening and far more control in your hands than the no.80 that seems to want to tip as you go off the edge,,,and when you do get control with it, you only scrape from just a small proportion of the blade......unless I'm doing something wrong.....and I haven't yet tried a thicker blade before ... or that new veritas number

the book "making and mastering wood planes" by Finck says on the no.80 ...that traditonally 45 degrees is the way to go, but he couldn't see why, so he experimented with the standard 90 degree with both edges burnished as done with card scraper and he found it worked just as well,,, and also was good because it mean't you only had to sharpen once for two edges.........apparently he's had a lot of success with his homemade scraper planes , which don't even flex(just uses one of his very thick plane blades at 95 degrees ) , that give good time between sharpenings .......something that I'd like to try one day.....

And that pom David CharlesWorth has good stuff too......I don't know how well it works but he suggests for really tough timber put a back bevel on your jointer blades to get more of that scraping action.....

Good luck with the Kunz

[Schtoo]

On the blade front, I got to slip in the new blade for mine just today. To be honest, I did two of the same blades, one for a 55* smoother and the other for the scraper plane.

Both 3mm of HSS so I doubt wear is going to be a problem with either of them somehow... ;)

But I have not really given them a hard time as yet, hopefully I will be able to do so soon, so I don't know how well or poorly they are going to perform. I do know the smoother is a PITA to adjust. Too much tap and it's too deep a cut, tap the blade back and it won't cut. Tap it back in and have to re-adjust the lateral, etc, etc.

The scraper is a dream. Spin a knob, tweak a screw and it's off and running.