Good lathes to buy?

[Edwin]

G'day.

Does anyone have any advice for a hobby woodworker wanting to get into woodturning? I would like to buy a good lathe at the low end of the professional range. I have been considering the Sherwood MSL-3815 for $1000 as advertised on the Timbecon.com.au site. I have never heard of this brand, but they seem to be of good quality. Does anyone know if this is correct?

Also, what about second hand lathes? What are some good places to find these things for sale?

I would appreciate some advice from those in the know.
Cheers,
Edwin.

[Toasty]

www.ebay.com.au and www.tradingpostonline.com.au are both good places to start for second hand lathes, although you will buy a lot of things sight unseen.

[hooppine]

You will get a lot of replies sooner or later on your question so I will just say best of luck to your efforts but first things first check your numbers. The msl-3815 is $1000 approx. The Sherwood is their brand for an import that each and everyone buys and rebadges. I bought a 900mm lathe of Carba Tec MC900 in Brisbane for $299 which for most of us non-professional is ample.(excepting for funiture restorers who need the 1 mtr. long beds. It is the same as the Sherwood MC-900 or the HARE AND fORBES WL18. Everyone will tell you their's is the best brand but my advice is go look, ask questions of others and buy what you feel happy about just like picking a financial adviser.

[adrian]

It seems to be the next step up from the MC900. Better out outboard setup, more than double the power, and a much better configuration than the MC900 which has the motor positioned where the dust can get sucked in more easily.
As a new turner the only thing to consider is that the cost will quickly go up if you include all the essentials. A basic (read cheap) set of HSS chisels will cost $99. If you buy some better quality chisels you can easily spend more than that on just one. A chuck is going to set you back between $200-$325 approx for a Supanova or the Aussie Vicmarc. You may quickly find that you need extra jaws such as bowl jaws which will cost $100 or so.
So you can see that your budget can go to $1600 or more very quickly. Not to mention the construction of a bench because the stands are inadequate. If your maximum outlay is around $1000 then the MC900 is a start at just under $400. It gives you a lot of cash to spend on high quality chisels and chucks etc.
I and many people on the forum use the MC900 but it has enough shortcomings for me to say that I wouldn't think of recommending it, under any circumstances, to someone who can afford better.

[DPB]

Edwin, follow this thread. http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=16993You can find a good used lathe if you work at it.

[Sprog]

Check out your local woodturning groups, they may be able to help you find a decent lathe at a reasonable price.

This web site may help you find a local group

http://www.woodgroupsa.org.au/

[powderpost]

Ring Woodfast out at Woodville.

Jim

[smidsy]

Hei Edwin,
I have the MC900, it's a good lathe that I would (and have) recommend (ed) to anyone but I have to agree with the others that the motor is positioned as a dust collector.
I'm not sure I agree with the stands being inadequate. My MC900 has walked across the floor courtesy of an unbalanced blank and the stand has stood the test fine.

The Timbecon site is not showing any specs for the MC660 so it is hard to pass judgement on the beast.

Just remember that as well as a lathe you need chisels and a chuck. The generic six piece chisel set is the way to go as a starting point as these are a good selection of chisels and good enough to do some nice work with but cheap enough to learn to sharpen on.
For chucks it is not worth getting the cheap clone unless they throw it in with the lathe for $30 or less - these sell for around $100 but are not worth it. Do yourself a favour and get a Vicmarc (my choice) or a Nova.

As someone pointed out, these lathes are sold in virtually identical form but different colours and names by a variety of shops so hunt round and get your best price.

My personal choice, if you can afford it and think you'll be in turning long term get the MSL-3815 but with chisels and chuck you're looking at around $1300 and change. Failing that the MC900 & 1100 are excellent lathes as well - the 660 I can't comment on until Timbecon puts up the specs.

As someone else has said, find yourself a turning club, these guys have a wealth of experience and you will learn things like chisel sharpening as well as turning, but a club is also a great place to see what others are doing.
Cheers
Paul

[gatiep]

Edwin

I am not going to comment on which lathe here, as I have done so umpteen times on this forum and it is almost midnight, been a long day. However, with an MC900 or MC1100 ( I believe the latter isthe better choice of the MC's ) plus all the basic gear , including TJ-6 chisels, Vicmarc 100 chuck, vernier, bits and bobs including Shellawax cream polish, face shield, center finder etc etc etc, you'll get a few cents change from $1000-00 and have a hobby lathe that should keep you turning as they have done for many thousands of turners accross the world. MSL-3815 is an upgrade but then be prepared to spend another $600 for bits and bobs over the $995-00 for the lathe at Carbatec, including the stand ( beef it up with a strip of 19 mm x 250 wide mdf running the length of the stand ) the outboard turning attachment, face plate, spur drive and live center, spanner and chinlish manual.
Read some of the past posts, search under MC-900
Happy turning

[Babytoolman]

Hi Edwin,
You will quickly get swept up in the excitement that is woodturning and if you have a natural talent that will happen very fast.
I too purchased the MC900 as my first lathe and the set of cheap tool ($99) and a Vicy 120 chuck (some will say that is overkill for the MC900).
It took me about 6 weeks to wish i had of bought what my father In-law bought and that was the $1400.00 Jet Lathe that is the 1100 length with manual variable speed.
About 8 weeks ago i purchased the variable speed mini Jet which is fantastic but limits you in the size work you can do. Highly recomend this a small work lathe.

I am going out an buying a Vicmark VL300 as i am now getting seriouds about my hobby and i would like the tools to help me move to the next level. This level increase will set me back around $4,500 for just the lathe unless a salesman has a brainfade.

The point of the post is to let you know that start with what you can afford. If you can afford to by a VL300 then go for it and make all the people here including me jealous. If not then start with MC900 post pictures of your work talk with all people on this site which i have and found that i have learnt more through the posts than i thought possible and get excited about working with wood.
One other thing to consider the working with wood shows are starting again for this year Sydney is in June on the 3-5th and it goes around the country from there and i do actually follow it. You may be able to get some great deals there and lower your costs. I bought 2 P&N tools from the Canberra show last year and save 35% overall which i then went and spent on some EEE and other finishes.
Mate enjoy the shed and the shavings.

[Rowan]

Edwin I have to agree with Babytoolman in get as good as u can afford. I was lucky enough to get a free lathe to start with and soon out grew it. With good avice from people I waited and went for the Nova 3000 which was best suited for my needs. It was the best thing I have done and couldnt be happier. What u need to do it decide what u will use it for and what specs u will require. In my case I needed a swivel head for large bowl turning and slow speeds for unbalanced blanks, and the Nova was what best suited my needs. DO THE HOMEWORK cause the lathe will be addictive and there would be nothing worse than buying something that doesn't quite measure up.

[rsser]

There's no doubt in my mind that the MC900 or 1100 are the best value for money. That is until or unless you get hooked!

But you can always sell it and trade up. Seen in this light, it's like insurance.

[adrian]

Hei Edwin,
I'm not sure I agree with the stands being inadequate. My MC900 has walked across the floor courtesy of an unbalanced blank and the stand has stood the test fine.
Cheers
Paul
My comment about the stand was not meant to infer that the construction was inadequate. It is solid enough. I've turned mine into a sawhorse. The fact that we've experienced the lathe taking off across the room means that the stand is inadequate. Maybe I should have explained myself better.
When we recommend machinery to people we need to point out the shortcomings as well as the good points. The fact that the MC900 has problems with the speed control lever being difficult sometimes and some of us have had problems with belts breaking, is relevant. They are annoyances that we live with because we know that it is a low end lathe.
The problem with the stands of low end lathes is a very real safety concern that new turners should be alerted to. In many of the posts I have seen about the MC900 it is stated that the stand has to be anchored or a sheet of ply installed so that a sack of concrete or some other heavy weight can be placed on it to bring the centre of gravity closer to the ground. This is done because the lathe and stand can take off with an out of balance blank rotating. I've had that experience and I know you have. Most lathes have problems with out-of-balance blanks but the problem is magnified when you have an 80kg lathe sitting on top of a stand that weighs a fraction of that. I would hate to think that some guy's kids were in the garage to watch dad on his new lathe when it does take off.
You can have lessons up to the wazoo but nothing will prepare you for that except advice from people who have had the experience, and that's us.

[smidsy]

The issue with the stand on the MC900 is that at 80 something kg the lathe is bit of a light weight when you consider the centrifigal force generated by an unbalanced blank - especially when the blank is a 300mm diameter 200mm long lump of wet jarrah which I have turned on mine.

I choose not to bolt mine down because it's across a roller door and I need to move it from time to time, but I recently enclosed the lathe base to a height of about 300mm and filled it with blue metal - others have used sand or bags of cement but I prefer blue metal because it's heavy enough not to blow away when I clean with an air gun and loose enough to act as an absorbant for vibration.


Cheers
Paul

[Phil Spencer]

G'day.

Does anyone have any advice for a hobby woodworker wanting to get into woodturning? I would like to buy a good lathe at the low end of the professional range. I have been considering the Sherwood MSL-3815 for $1000 as advertised on the Timbecon.com.au site. I have never heard of this brand, but they seem to be of good quality. Does anyone know if this is correct?

Also, what about second hand lathes? What are some good places to find these things for sale?

I would appreciate some advice from those in the know.
Cheers,
Edwin.My dream lathe is the Omega, I have wanted one of these ever since I helped Rob at Omega Engineering size up the motors when I worked at the now defunct Brook Crompton, untill then I have to make do with my trusty old Tough fitted up with a variable speed drive, my advice Edwin is to get something solid and build up your accessories over time as you need them that way you will not end up buying bits and pieces that you may never use.

If any one wants advice on converting their lathe to a variable speed PM me.

Regards

Phil Spencer

[Don Nethercott]

Please don't forget safety - ie your lungs.
You'll need a good face mask - Triton have a good one for $200-300. Then there is the dust extractor starting at $189. Finally a room air cleaner for $355. About $800 or up just to keep your lungs clean - but beats a lung transplant. Remember - ALL Australian woods have been declared carcinogenic.
Don

[Phil Spencer]

Please don't forget safety - ie your lungs.
You'll need a good face mask - Triton have a good one for $200-300. Then there is the dust extractor starting at $189. Finally a room air cleaner for $355. About $800 or up just to keep your lungs clean - but beats a lung transplant. Remember - ALL Australian woods have been declared carcinogenic.
DonHi Don

I think that I was the first person in Australia to buy a Rakal Airlite dust mask, I aslo have built an air filter for the workshop see picture this filter will change the air in my 20'x20' workshop about 4 times a minute without the filter and 2 times per minute with. The thing is there are a lot of things that a person can build for them selves or cheaper options, I have found that a $20 pedistal fan from Bunnies will clear my workshop of dust very quickly. I agree that health and safety is important but there are ways around spending buckets of money and still achieve the desired health and safety outcome.

Back to which lathe I still say buy the best that the budget can afford otherwise a cheaper lathe will quickly outlive its usefullness and this will create frustration and kill the hobby.

When I started 20 years ago I purchased the best lathe that I could afford (Tough) built my own bench started with a packaged gouge set and a face mask and a fan to blow the dust out the door (I might add that dust is only a problem if you sand a lot as skills increase an excellent finish can be achieved straight off the tool which produces shavings), over time I built up a set of HSS tools that suited my needs and I built my own dust extraction system. The money that I saved let me buy other tools and I learnt a lot on the way.

I still have good lungs it just takes a little commen sense. You can see details of the fan and vacumme that I built in the Tools and Jigs Forum.

Regards

Phil Spencer

[reeves]

Well mate u got all the good info.

As someone who bought their first lathe (carbatec MC900) a year ago and has probably produced 50 or more turnings i would say that the smaller size is fine unless u need bigger, which u eventually will. I just got the decent one and then build up yr chucks and chisels....untill yr work demands a bigger lathe...all the lathe does is turn the wood around, everything else, the holding and cutting is done by attachments or chisels...

above the cost of the lathe, in the lat yea i have purchased

1 vicmarc VC90m chuck $125 on a good deal
1 Vicmarc VM100 chuck 220 without insert, which cost 28
1 basic steaDY $55
2 centers rotating type differnt sizes..$50 or so
1 2MT drill chuck heavy duty type $60
1 set basic HSS chisels
about 8 other specialty chisels HSS,including holliong tool, bigger scrapers, huge 25 mm spindle gouge with extra long handle, all up about $500
numerous packs of XXXshine, Shellawax, organoil, etc approx $200
sandpaper, U bueat sanding tool, rotating pads..approx 150

white grinding wheel, 28
carbatec chisel grinding table 50
sheppach slow water wheel..400
tormec gouge chisel jig 120
diamond wheel truer 100
smaller diamand hand sharperner 30

Robert Sorby curved bowl tool rest 60
magnetic chisel holders 50

Books such as Mike Darlow, Richard Raffan, wood review turnning projects, etc 150
Raffan videos 60
woodshow attandance, seminars etc...approx 120..

and off couse a saftely mask..etc

next is dust extraction as noted about at the momoent my workshop is out side ona vernadah...so its very well ventilated -- picture attached..


then u having good quality turning blanks, approx.. $250, icluding Silyoak, mulga, rosewood, sassafras,m huon pine, myrtle. QLD maple, blackwood, camphor
i have turned dump wood like cypress and eucylyptus, even SO, found wood, cut wood but if u want the good quality woods then and burls then the need to be cutting and drying or u gotta buy em from suppliers and wood shows...raid yr friends wood piles, take time, follow yr nose etc....

So there the things i have paid for which have helped me learn and continue learning...

just had the first market stall yesterday made about $35, so its a way to go on economic return..

mate the major issues u will face, apart from general skill development and machine capability are definatley wood selection, as each type of wood turns differenlty and its suitable for different purposes and chisel sharpening which is an entire science in itself...asinging value to a particular behaviour and making sur eu have the tool and developing skill use in is the main way of findig yr way and producing appealing items..

good luck and post us yr stuff when get some going..

regards
john

[Edwin]

Thanks for all the info, fellas. Its really useful to get advice from people who have already been down this road and know what to do.

Still haven't picked up a lathe, but I've been looking around rather than just buying the first one that took my fancy. In the meantime I've been using a friend's lathe. Not sure what brand (labels all worn off), but the specs seem similar to the MC1100. I reckon I'd want one step up from that, with a swivel head and electronic variable speed capability.

I've managed to get hold of an antique set of gouges, etc, all really heavily constructed with big handles. I'm not sure if they are too good to use, but they seem to work well. The set has an 50 and a 30mm roughing gouge, 3 spindle gouges, a wide flat scraper, 2 skew chisels and a parting tool. They are all marked with "Ward Cast Steel" and a logo with two hammers above an anvil, with the letters W and P either side. They are quite pretty old things.

Thanks for your help.
-Edwin.