El Cheapo Lathe - Refurbishment

[Bushmiller]

Many years ago, about twenty when I think on it, we bought a lathe for one of my sons as he showed an interest in wood turning. In fact the primary reason was to stop him sticking wood in the chuck of the drill press and whittling away at it.

The purchase was an MC900 from Carbatec. Nothing very special and we quickly identified that the stand that came with it did it no favours, but more on that later.

Well, it was a fad that came and went as far as the son was concerned. To some extent this was because we had nowhere to house the lathe and it was stuck outside a shed with a tarp over it. Eventually the tarp disintegrated and as we were no longer living at the location the lathe suffered big time.

Recently I became totally dis-enchanted with the $100 GMC lathe I had purchased with a gift voucher from work and decided to rehabilitate the MC900. The first thing was to bring it up to QLD. Now that was a little bit more of an issue than you might imagine.

Remember I said we had been unhappy with the OE stand. I cast up a stand consisting of two triangular concrete legs about 150mm thick and a horizontal table of 150mm channel, also filled with concrete.

I had this theory that the more solid I could make the stand, the less vibration there would be and consequently better performance. However, I had never contemplated moving the lathe. Fortunately I had made the stand in three pieces.

The first job was to provide a solid base:

282448

The slab was set in the ground as this location is only temporary and it won't interfere with the vehicles when my new shed is built and this shed becomes a garage/shelter (it only has three walls :( ).

Then the "legs" of the lathe had to be positioned:

282449282450

The lathe work now begun and there were several problems there. The first I knew about. The chuck had seized solid. It took three days of spraying with penetrating fluid and another three of soaking in penetrating fluid to free it up. Then it was dismantled,cleaned and put back together.

The next problem was the motor. The fan had disintegrated. In fact it broke up in my hands. I need a new fan, but I had recently parted with $40 for a new fan for another motor and I considered that outrageous so I made a new one like this:

282452282453282454

And then installed on the motor

282451282455

I'm not convinced that this has been successful. It may have been a waste of time as the motor is small (1/2 HP), it won't start without help from me and the switch is RS. I suspect I will have to put another motor on, which I have, but space for pulleys is the issue there.

As I was assembling the motor on the lathe one of the cast brackets broke. The threaded bracket had broken through a point of weakness. and I made up new parts. This was a fiddle, but made up both brackets just in case.

282457282456282458

I got it all back together and gave it a coat of paint. Blue, because that it what I had and went right over the lot including the stand.

282460282459282461

I quickly turned the blank I had put in the lathe just to ensure this labour of love had not been a total waste of time. It went OK. Just a piece of rubbish pine. It is to make up a "test" handle for the three chisels I bought in the group buy. I have a piece of Cooktown Ironwood, which IanW kindly gave me, for the real handles.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

One more disaster I forgot to mention, the tool rest had frozen. In trying to free it I broke both sides off the rest and had to use a large hydraulic press to push the post out of its housing.

I welded up the rest but plan to replace it in the future.

The live centre also had died, but although I was planning on buying a replacement, I twigged that I had a live centre from another lathe. The only problem was it had a parallel shaft not a MT2.

So I stuck it in the drill chuck I had previously purchased. Problem solved, although I will get a dedicated MT2 live centre next time I feel flushed with money :rolleyes:.

This pic shows the welded (rather poorly) tool rest and the live centre held in the Jacobs chuck:

282466

Regards
Paul

[NCArcher]

Love the stand Paul. I noticed that in the other thread yesterday. :2tsup:

[orificiam]

Congratulation Paul, Nice restoration, no way it's going to move with those legs.
Now we'll wait to see some Masterpieces come out of it,

Cheers Tony.:)

[Bushmiller]

Thank you for your comments both Tonys

The irony of my lathe work is that I'm a charlatan in that the only work I ever do is make handles, mostly for turning tools :rolleyes:, frequently for chisel handles and occasionally for screwdrivers.

I don't think I've ever turned a bowl :(.

Regards
Paul

[DonIncognito]

The lathe work now begun and there were several problems there. The first I knew about. The chuck had seized solid. It took three days of spraying with penetrating fluid and another three of soaking in penetrating fluid to free it up. Then it was dismantled,cleaned and put back together.


Regards
Paul
What fluid did you use? Im trying to free up one now, and I have soaked it in diesel for a week, and used inox liberally and have been working at it on and off for another week or so, but there has been bugger all improvement. I got an elcheapo heat gun that I was going to try next, but soaking it in something appeals to my lazy side.

[Bushmiller]

What fluid did you use? Im trying to free up one now, and I have soaked it in diesel for a week, and used inox liberally and have been working at it on and off for another week or so, but there has been bugger all improvement. I got an elcheapo heat gun that I was going to try next, but soaking it in something appeals to my lazy side.

Don

I had an old container of Inox that had lost it's pump. I tipped it into a tin that was only just a larger diametre than the chuck and completely submerged the part. I came back in three days.

I drained it, subjected it to moderate heat a couple of times and gradually was able to remove all of the jaws. Then I put the levers in the chuck that you would normally open and close it with. I think a small amount of "tapping" with a hammer occurred also, but go carefully. Once you get the smallest amount of movement "you're in" and you just have to keep working away at it. The whole chuck will eventually have to be disassembled. I used a wire wheel on a bench grinder to clean up the grooves in the chuck.

I was surprised, but very pleasantly pleased, at how well it came up and it operates quite smoothly. I had to make new levers as I had lost the originals. I'll take some pix tomorrow as the new levers are far more robust than the originals.

Regards
Paul

[Paul39]

Bushmiller,

If the motor runs well started by pulling on the V-belt, a new capacitor might solve the problem. Take the old one with you to a motor repair shop. Usually under $10. Take a photo or make notes about where it is connected.

Stick the business end of your live center into a can with kerosine or diesel to cover the business end, and let it soak for a week or two. Then beat the daylights out of it with a stick about the diameter of a broom handle. If that makes it move at all, soak and beat it some more. They are usually made with bearings packed with grease, so it may be rusted only around the tight parts.

Very nice stand. I'm sure the lathe just sits there and hums. For those who will be doing big out of balance bowl blanks, an X brace under the bed to keep it stiff side to side would be nice.

My approach to stuck rusted things is soak overnight or longer in white vinegar, tap, tap, tap, with a stick of hard wood or a brass hammer - you want many small shocks to vibrate things loose, then a rinse in very hot water, dry and oil up with light oil and work all moving parts through their full range. Keep adding oil and working until oil running out is reasonable clear and it works freely.

Things too small to fit in vinegar, apply light oil, penetrating oil, kerosine, WD40, automatic transmission fluid, etc., tap, tap, tap, heat with a heat gun or carefully with a propane torch, more oil, more tapping.

As mentioned above, once it moves the slightest bit it will come free. Then keep moving it and adding oil until it is free and oil is reasonably clean.

I REALLY like the stand!

[Drillit]

Well done. Now that the bug has returned - next step - a first bowl, eh. Say from mango. Drillit.

[Bushmiller]

Bushmiller,

If the motor runs well started by pulling on the V-belt, a new capacitor might solve the problem. Take the old one with you to a motor repair shop. Usually under $10. Take a photo or make notes about where it is connected.

Stick the business end of your live center into a can with kerosine or diesel to cover the business end, and let it soak for a week or two. Then beat the daylights out of it with a stick about the diameter of a broom handle. If that makes it move at all, soak and beat it some more. They are usually made with bearings packed with grease, so it may be rusted only around the tight parts.


I REALLY like the stand!

Paul

I will have a look at the capacitor as although swapping motors has some appeal (twice the grunt) the logistics of the conversion is a little daunting as the motor spindle sizes are different but not by much. It cuts down on the options.

The live centre is not so much dead as terminally ill in that the centre turns but the bearings are shot. I had initially thought I would be able to replace them, but a knowledgeable colleague at work and I failed miserably to get it apart and damaged the cone in the process.

So I am resigned to go with what I have for the moment and replace it when I get the urge.

The stand I must have made with a slightly lean mix of concrete as it had weathered a little and some of the edges were a little crumbly. They didn't like being manhandled onto a trailer for transportation. There is one good face on each leg and ironically they face either into a wall or a door that is habitually left open :(. However, they still have the required mass even if they do look a bit weathered.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

Well done. Now that the bug has returned - next step - a first bowl, eh. Say from mango. Drillit.

Drillit

You never know, but I have to say that bowl turning is a long way down the list of projects. However I admire the beautiful bowls that others turn.

Regards
Paul

[Paul39]

Paul

I will have a look at the capacitor as although swapping motors has some appeal (twice the grunt) the logistics of the conversion is a little daunting as the motor spindle sizes are different but not by much. It cuts down on the options.

The live centre is not so much dead as terminally ill in that the centre turns but the bearings are shot. I had initially thought I would be able to replace them, but a knowledgeable colleague at work and I failed miserably to get it apart and damaged the cone in the process.

So I am resigned to go with what I have for the moment and replace it when I get the urge.

The stand I must have made with a slightly lean mix of concrete as it had weathered a little and some of the edges were a little crumbly. They didn't like being manhandled onto a trailer for transportation. There is one good face on each leg and ironically they face either into a wall or a door that is habitually left open :(. However, they still have the required mass even if they do look a bit weathered.

Regards
Paul

If your bigger motor has a larger shaft than the motor pulley, you could take the new motor and the existing motor pulley to an engineer and have it bored out to fit.

If the bigger motor shaft is smaller than the hole in the motor pulley, it could be shimmed with beer can stock, which cuts nicely with ordinary household scissors. Not your significant other's sewing scissors.

If the Morse taper on your dead live center fits your headstock spindle, you could tidy up the cone with a file and sandpaper and make a dead center, or grind some notches in it and have another drive center.

As to rough parts on your lathe stand, I would not even have bothered to paint it. I doubt anyone who sees it would comment, and if they do, you could tell them you would accept a gift of a Vicmarc or Stubby.

If the roughness keeps you awake at night, using a mixture of 1/2 Portland cement, and 1/2 sand, and a broken piece of concrete block as a tool, put some of the mixture on the tool and rub on the rough places and on the corners to round them a bit. It will make a nice sand finish texture. After it sets and before it drys, wrap with old rags, newspapers, or cardboard and keep wet for a week for maximum strength and bonding. A couple days would really do.

There might be a pail of concrete patch sold for patching shallow holes that would do the same as the Portland cement and sand.

This works best on bare concrete, but you would probably wear off enough paint to get a good bond.

[artme]

Bushmiller,

Stick the business end of your live center into a can with kerosine or diesel to cover the business end, and let it soak for a week or two. Then beat the daylights out of it with a stick about the diameter of a broom handle. If that makes it move at all, soak and beat it some more. They are usually made with bearings packed with grease, so it may be rusted only around the tight parts.

What a brutal suggestion!!!:o However, as long as it works.......:)

Great WIP Paul!! Wonderfully instructive post all round!!:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

[Bushmiller]

If your bigger motor has a larger shaft than the motor pulley, you could take the new motor and the existing motor pulley to an engineer and have it bored out to fit.

If the bigger motor shaft is smaller than the hole in the motor pulley, it could be shimmed with beer can stock, which cuts nicely with ordinary household scissors. Not your significant other's sewing scissors.

If the Morse taper on your dead live center fits your headstock spindle, you could tidy up the cone with a file and sandpaper and make a dead center, or grind some notches in it and have another drive center.

As to rough parts on your lathe stand, I would not even have bothered to paint it. I doubt anyone who sees it would comment, and if they do, you could tell them you would accept a gift of a Vicmarc or Stubby.

If the roughness keeps you awake at night, using a mixture of 1/2 Portland cement, and 1/2 sand, and a broken piece of concrete block as a tool, put some of the mixture on the tool and rub on the rough places and on the corners to round them a bit. It will make a nice sand finish texture. After it sets and before it drys, wrap with old rags, newspapers, or cardboard and keep wet for a week for maximum strength and bonding. A couple days would really do.

There might be a pail of concrete patch sold for patching shallow holes that would do the same as the Portland cement and sand.

This works best on bare concrete, but you would probably wear off enough paint to get a good bond.

Paul

You've set me thinking. Thanks a lot! As if I don't have enough to do :D.

The live centre is history, but the motor.. I just had a look and the motor shaft sizes are similar to the point that I might be able to take the difference down with some emery cloth while the motor spins.

Alternatively I could ream the pulley. One issue is that the motor will spin the wrong way, but examination of a sticker on the side of the motors states that rotation can be reversed by swapping two wires around, but this is internal and not on the power supply. Another issue is the motor is four pole so I will have to check the speed on the original.

I also have a three phase motor, which would be enough to place the machine and me into orbit, but I would have to purchase a VFD to do that. About $150, which is a pittance, but this is a budget job for a machine only occasionally used.

No, I am not too troubled by the rough concrete. I can live with it and not even dream excessively (about the concrete that is.)

Thanks for the suggestions.

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

The "new" levers to tighten up the chuck. One was made from a bit of bar I had knocking around and the one with the knurled handle was an old ratchet handle from a socket set. I throw little away!

I don't have a metal lathe so they were just ground roughly on my bench grinder. They only have to fit the holes with no rotation involved unless I forget to remove them before I switch on the lathe :no: . They are quite a bit more robust than the originals and longer too so even I with my modest sized mitts I can get a significant amount of leverage onto the chuck.

282596282597

This is the "dead" (terminally ill, if you prefer) "live" centre.

282598


Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

I should have mentioned that there will be some improvised dust extraction to go in, but I have just not got to that aspect yet as it is in the far corner of the shed. I gave my "Big Gulp" shute to my son in a moment of misplaced benevolence and will have to rig up something in its place.

I hate dust collection from a lathe. It seems to be so poor compared to some other machines. At least chisel handles are not too long so it is a bit easier than say a post for a four poster bed!

Regards
Paul

[jimbur]

Paul, what really stood out for me was your patience. I suspect that most of us have ruined threads etc by being too impatient. You are a example to us all. :U

[Bushmiller]

Paul, what really stood out for me was your patience. I suspect that most of us have ruined threads etc by being too impatient. You are a example to us all. :U

Jim

You're very generous in your praise, but it may be more to do with forgetfulness and the inability to say anything in a single sentence!

To give an example of this, at work each employee has his own profile for emails and this is password protected. However in my job where the position is continually manned we "hand over" to a colleague. Occasionally we would forget to close our profile down and one particular colleague would send "love letters" to all and sundry on our behalf.

One day I was his relief and he had forgot to close his own profile so I took the opportunity to take my revenge on all those times something quite inappropriate had done the rounds. I said something along the lines of "I'm really sorry for all the wrongs I have done to youse blokes and I apologise most sincerely." Then emailed it to all twentyfive of my colleagues.

Anyhow, everybody had a huge laugh at his expense but I never got the blame for it as he considered I would never have sent a two line email and the bloke who was sitting next to me became the fall guy even to this day :).

You see, I've done it again, where a simple "Thanks" would have sufficed :rolleyes:.

Regards
Paul

[RETIRED]

Verbose mongrel!:D

[Bushmiller]

Verbose mongrel!:D



I think you've nailed it nearly :( .

The full phrase may go:

Verbose mongrel pome b*****d :- .

:wink:

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

Verbose mongrel!:D

I have just twigged that I may be related to you :? .

Regards
Paul

[Christos]

Great job on the rebuild.

[Bushmiller]

I was in Brissy a couple of days ago and had two appointments about four hours apart. SWMBO was with me and it was a toss up between filling in the time at Meyers or Carbatec. Well Carbatec won out, but I did have to buy her lunch :) .

While I was at Carbatec I succumbed to the temptation of a new live centre. I think the live centre is now worth more than the rest of the lathe in total :D.

284110

Basically, a small chuck with three interchangeable centres.

Interestingly they keep a large range of spares for this machine including a new motor ($165) which is now 1HP compared to the 1/2 HP of the original. I suppose this model has been around for many years. It's another option.

Regards
Paul

[Paul39]

While I was at Carbatec I succumbed to the temptation of a new live centre. I think the live centre is now worth more than the rest of the lathe in total :D. Paul

I have that set by another name I bought used as a spare. I think it will serve you nicely.

Don't disparage your lathe too much. It has a cast iron bed and sits on very stable base. I have a around $2000 new price Hegner with square steel tubing for a bed that when starting with an out of balance blank, the tool rest is going up and down and the tail stock is going back and forth. Once the blank is more or less round, everything settles down.

I am not complaining as I paid $500 for the lathe, a Oneway tail center set, an 8 inch 1725 RPM grinder and Wolverine jigs, two bowl grinding jigs, and a big bench. It has served me well for 5 years.

I recently saw two pieces of 1/4 inch thick, 6 inch C channel, 5 feet long that were cut out of a steel frame building. I got them for $3 each and they will be the new bed when I can tear myself away from making bowls.

[Bushmiller]

I have that set by another name I bought used as a spare. I think it will serve you nicely.

Don't disparage your lathe too much. It has a cast iron bed and sits on very stable base. I have a around $2000 new price Hegner with square steel tubing for a bed that when starting with an out of balance blank, the tool rest is going up and down and the tail stock is going back and forth. Once the blank is more or less round, everything settles down.

I am not complaining as I paid $500 for the lathe, a Oneway tail center set, an 8 inch 1725 RPM grinder and Wolverine jigs, two bowl grinding jigs, and a big bench. It has served me well for 5 years.

I recently saw two pieces of 1/4 inch thick, 6 inch C channel, 5 feet long that were cut out of a steel frame building. I got them for $3 each and they will be the new bed when I can tear myself away from making bowls.

Paul

Thanks for the comments. When my lathe is in the exalted company of accomplished woodturners with sophisticated machines I take the low key approach as I am fundamentally a charlatan.

Just on the vibration aspect I do believe the key is to have mass, even above and beyond the cast iron bed. The channel I have used is 175mm, blocked off at the ends and then filled with concrete. I think your channel treated in a similar fashion will work very well for you. The concrete legs add even more mass and I got to wondering exactly how much vibration there is on my lathe.

I looked around for one of our Australian 50c coins which has a thickness of 2mm and is duo-decagonal (I think that's right), but SWMBO has left me and taken all the coin (only for the day :rolleyes:) so I looked around for what else I could balance. I progressively added more bits.....

284151

One live centre (the dead one) under the chuck and another past the tailstock.

284152

The MT drill chuck added

284153

And some pencils and a drill bit.

The lathe is rotating at full speed, but admittedly there is only a small spindle blank in place for a chisel handle: Not a humungus out of square, straight off the tree bowl blank :D .

Regards
Paul