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View Full Version : New Veritas Honing Guide Mk II – Review



derekcohen
22nd May 2005, 03:33 AM
Saturday May 21st was a bit of a first for Perth when local Galoots congregated for a sharpening workshop, and were able to see and use the new Veritas Honing Guide Mk II. There were a number of excellent presentations, both of technique and jigs, but center stage was definitely held by the Veritas guide which quickly received many positive comments.

The new guide (Mk II) not only overcomes all of the criticisms levied at Mk I (which was an excellent guide, nonetheless), but certainly now impresses as the best honing guide on the market at present.

Finish is in black anodized steel with brass fittings. As we have come to expect from all LV tools the quality was immaculate and everything worked perfectly out of the box. (A little confession – in true Aussie male style I did not read the instructions that came with the guide. The fact is this guide is so logical that it does not take more than intuition to work it out).

In use the Mk II felt solid and smooth, much more so than Mk I. Conversely, in spite of the wide wheel, it was still possible to add pressure to the blade ends to hone a fine radius (to feather shavings).

Several members of the workshop has the opportunity to try it out for themselves, and the unanimous decision by those present was that they would buy one as soon as they became available.

My thanks to Rob Lee and the staff at Lee Valley for the amazing efforts made to get this guide to me in time for the workshop, knowing that there had been late alterations to its machining, so delaying production. It arrived the night before, much to my great relief.

Details of the Mk II are in successive posts, below.

Regards from Perth

Derek

derekcohen
22nd May 2005, 03:35 AM
Notable new features include:

- a wider track, ensuring greater stability
- ability to use wider blades (up to 3”or 75mm)
- a wide range of bevel angles, from 20° - 54°
- the ability to cater for both micro bevels (in 1° and 2° increments)
as well as backbevels (10° - 20° range)

derekcohen
22nd May 2005, 03:38 AM
Setting up the Mk II involves attaching the protractor. This slides on and is then positioned according to the width of the blade, which ensures that it is always centred. As seen in the picture below, there are separate scales for High and Standard blade settings, which covers all the angles found in both bevel down and bevel up planes (these are depicted by the red and yellow numbers, while the back bevels are written in green). All settings are clearly marked and accessed by a drilled stop. The opening picture shows a blade being sharpened for a cutting angle of 62° for a LV LA Smoother. This involved honing the blade in three stages, first adding a secondary microbevel of 20°, and a final microbevel of 5°.

One of the criticisms levied at Mk I had been the difficulty some experienced with setting the blade square within the guide. The last picture shows the underside of the protractor. Here is a depth stop for the blade plus a fence against which the blade is pressed before the hold down is tightened.

I will post further observations as I use the guide over the next few weeks.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Groggy
22nd May 2005, 10:00 AM
One of the criticisms levied at Mk I had been the difficulty some experienced with setting the blade square within the guide. The last picture shows the underside of the protractor. Here is a depth stop for the blade plus a fence against which the blade is pressed before the hold down is tightened. Indeed, this was the major disappointment that I had with mine; an edge that is not square with the blade is more than an embuggerance. It made it the only LV tool I didn't use (other than a flush cut saw that had a crimped blade). I'll be interested to see how you go with narrow chisels.


I will post further observations as I use the guide over the next few weeks.Great, I look forward to it.

BTW, you're a lucky bugger for getting one to play with!

Pete J
22nd May 2005, 11:31 AM
I would like to second Derek's thoughts. Having been present yesterday at the World Premiere of the LV guide Mk II and using it briefly myself, I found it smooth to use, but much more importantly, easy to set up. I had a small bullnose Record No. 076, which has a blade with a much smaller shaft than cutting head. It was set up centred, square and to the required angle in next to no time. Like Derek, I didn't read the instructions either, but had the benefit of watching him set up a blade. The jig impressed me as being simple and accurate.

By the way Derek, thanks for the rest of the day, particularly seeing your belt and disk sander sharpening system in operation. Thanks also to Rodm for his impressive Star Wars sharpening station - to carry on the analogy Rod, I think it should be dubbed the Millenium Falcon!

Regards

NewLou
22nd May 2005, 11:50 AM
Thx for the Peek Derek,

Sounds like A quality product.....................another thing to add to the wish list!!! Congratulations on your positive ongoing relationship with Lee Valley keep us posted.........................Darth ;)

REgards Lou

lesmeyer
22nd May 2005, 12:17 PM
Well,
what can I say. I was present at the special moment AND my LV blade is seen in the jig on the first photo above getting a 50 degree edge. What a fantastic result. The shavings produced from a piece of Karri was nothing short of spectacular. I picked up some more than very helpful tips visiting the other side. What impressed me most is that Derek takes a rather simple approach to sharpening, and yet produces results second to none. He showed us that one does not need to spend excessive amounts of money to produce fine edges on a blade. Much practice with the basic setup, and patience is all it takes. Having said that, Derek has many years of experience with this and makes it look so easy - which it is not, of course.
Thank you to Derek from all of us who attended the workshop.
Regards
Les
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon7.gif

paul.cleary
22nd May 2005, 03:42 PM
Good to see this new honing guide, especially the way the angle is now setup using the protractor.
I have the Mk I Veritas sharpening guide and with advancing age my eyesight is not as sharp as it used to be - thus setting the sharpening angle on the Mk I now requires me to do lots of checking and fiddling and rechecking.
This takes all that away so I'll be buying one.
Paul
PS The late but not great Stanley blade sharpening guide used the same method to set the sharpening angle. It was the only good thing about it!

sinjin1111
22nd May 2005, 06:33 PM
Can this jig take the very wide japanese blades by chance?? the blades are also tapered down length so would be a prob?
sinjin

TrevorOwen
22nd May 2005, 09:55 PM
Thanks for the road test report Derek. I must say it was quick because only last week I read that Rob Lee was sending you a guide to test. I have been wanting to buy a guide to do better than the eclipse I am using and was lining up for the Mk1 until I learnt that a new model was pending. Do you have any idea when it will be generally available? I assume one has two choices, wait for an Australian dealer to obtain stock or order direct from Lee Valley. I am interested to hear from other forum members which way they would go!

Regards from Adelaide
Trevor

derekcohen
23rd May 2005, 12:25 AM
Can this jig take the very wide japanese blades by chance??

Hi Sinjin

According to the manual, the Guide will take blades 2-7/8" wide (my rule indicated 3" but this may be an error of parallax) and 15/32" thick. Although I have not yet had a chance to check out how very thick and very narrow blades are managed (but - hopefully - will this week), there is little doubt that the Guide will accept the thickest blades available on the market (just how many do you know of that are 15/32" thick?!). OK, I am talking plane blades here - some mortice chisels may the exception.

I also have yet to test out blades that are tapered along their length (i.e. thickness). A mild tapering thickness should not be a problem, but I am curious how much taper can be handled. I will let you know.

Regards from Perth

Derek

derekcohen
23rd May 2005, 12:32 AM
Do you have any idea when it will be generally available?

Hi Trevor

Yes, LV really have great customer relations, and this is well-illustrated in how much effort they went to to get the Guide to me in time for the workshop.

When will the Mk II be out in the shops? I am not sure about Australia. It is due out on the 23rd May in the USA and Canada. Try contacting Carba-tec and/or Timbecon - they may know.

Regards from Perth

Derek

DPB
23rd May 2005, 09:40 AM
Derek, I own a Mark I. In your opinion, is the Mark II a sufficient improvement over the Mark I to justify purchasing?

Rocker
23rd May 2005, 12:17 PM
Emma chisit? It is not featured yet on the Lee Valley website.

Rocker

derekcohen
23rd May 2005, 01:49 PM
is the Mark II a sufficient improvement over the Mark I to justify purchasing?

The short answer is a definite YES.

This honing guide is a truly excellent product. About a year ago I posted a modification to the Mk I, which added an internal fence to improve the ability to hold blades square. Soon after doing this, Rob Lee contacted me to describe the improvements that were planned for Mk II. I have been sitting on pictures of it for 6 months. What stands out is that LV have listened to every bit of criticism levelled at honing guides, theirs included, and sought to address these in the next version. And that is what they have done here. Indeed, what they have done is design an up-to-date honing guide, one that recognises the future demands of bevel up planes as well.

I have reproduced below a copy of an answer I gave to a question raised on another forum:

Question: "I have found it somewhat difficult to get the old guide to set up easily. I believe most who have the guide know the problem".....

Response: I assume that you are referring to the difficulty some (myself included) experienced with the Mk I in getting, and then keeping, the blade straight in the Guide. I resorted to two stratgies in the past - building a fence into my Mk I and tightening the hold down with vicegrips, or using a jig to set the blade square (and tightening the hold down with vicegrips). I recall Rob's advice in this regard. He said that he did not tighten the hold down much and that then the blade would remain square on its own (the idea being that the guide is just an extension of your hand, as if you were honing freehand). Someone else reported the same. But this did not work for me, and I found I was starting to prefer the Eclipse guide since it is a side clamping guide and its strength of lies with keeping the blade square (as long as it is constructed accurately - not all were).

Some time back (the articles are in the records somewhere), I posted a jig I designed to set up honing angles on the Mk I and the Eclipse as quickly and as securely as possible. Others responded with similar ideas. The point is that even the Eclipse is fiddly to set up - it takes two (sometimes three) hands to hold the blade in the guide, extend it the correct distance over, and hold the jig securely so that the measurements are accurate (and all at the same time!).

What the Mk II does is deal with all these issues in one fell swoop. The protractor (or "registration jig") attaches to the body of the Guide, the depth stop is adjusted and fixed in place with a knob, and the fence is integral. All this can be done with two hands, perhaps one with some practice. Yes, the Mk II is a lot easier to set up.

Regards from Perth

Derek

derekcohen
23rd May 2005, 01:53 PM
Emma chisit? It is not featured yet on the Lee Valley website.

Rocker

It is in the latest catalogue, due for release today (23rd May). But when is the Mk II is expected to be available locally, and how much will it cost? I have no idea - speak with Carba-tec or Timbercon.

Regards from Perth

Derek

routermaniac
23rd May 2005, 11:10 PM
sounds like another one for the wish list Derek. I have to say I have had the "old" veritas for the last month and a half and I LOVE IT! This new one sounds even better. Lets just ait and see :-)

bitingmidge
6th June 2005, 03:00 PM
Thanks to Derek's references a few months ago, I held off buying a new guide till the MK2 had arrived.

As noted on another thread, it's release happily coincided with my birthday, which gave me the excuse I needed to become an "early adopter"!

It arrived today, 6 days exactly after ordering, and while it hasn't fired a shot in anger, it really looks the part.

I can understand why it took a while to get into production, I think Rob Lee described it on another forum as the most complicated (or was that complex) bit of casting he'd seen!

I don't want to get it dirty :eek: but when I do, if it isn't the answer to my sharpening prayers, I reckon there isn't one.

It's enough to convince a girl that learning to sharpen freehand is a complete waste of time!

Cheers,

P

JDarvall
6th June 2005, 04:18 PM
How much do these things cost ?

TassieKiwi
6th June 2005, 04:39 PM
$US558.50 - cheap at twice the price!

Look here

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=51868&cat=1,43072,43078&ap=1

bitingmidge
6th June 2005, 04:57 PM
No. US $48.50 even cheaper at twice the price.

Click on the currency button on the top right hand corner for the "international" price.

I bought a few other things as well, and postage was round $30.00 air mail for the lot, less than the cost of driving to my nearest supplier!

Cheers,

P

lesmeyer
7th June 2005, 12:43 AM
Midge,
I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I had a go at using it at Derek's place. Mine should arrive tomorrow (Tue) - Should have arrived today, but public holiday in WA. I also have the MKI. Wil wait and see If I still use it.
Regards
Les

derekcohen
7th June 2005, 12:56 AM
Just a note for all.

The Mk II has undergone an upgrade since my initial review. In particular, read my observations on using it with chisels. I had pointed out that the honing guide was superior with plane blades but not as good with the more difficult chisel blades, such as narrow or wedge-shaped ones (but was still fine overall). Well, the clamp bar has since been changed and I have been told that this has led to a significant improvement in clamping chisel blades. I am due to get the upgrade soon, and will report on my own observations. My version was a pre-production item. All the guides that have been sold come with the improved clamp bar.

Regards from Perth

Derek

bitingmidge
7th June 2005, 09:00 AM
Midge,
I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Pleasantly surprised indeed!

Although amazed on another count as well!

Since I don't know what the old clamp bar was like, I played with a 29mm chisel and a 6mm chisel last night, and had a no-fuss perfect result. I needed two less hands than setting the same in the old "Eclipse" jig, and the more I used it the more I marvelled at the thought and workmanship.

Since when did a sharpening jig become an object of desire?? :confused:

The amazing thing? Well the Veritas has these beaut little holes on the angle setting gizwitch which locate the angle perfectly accurately every time, simply, no fuss.... ONE of the major reasons for the purchase.

The eclipse takes a lot of fiddling to get right, but the honing angle of the two blades I used last night was EXACTLY the same as I had achieved with the Eclipse!

So repeatable precision is possible on the Eclipse if you have all day to set it up, but I am hoping to hone out some of the funny angles on the other blades soon!

Cheers,

P

JDarvall
7th June 2005, 01:47 PM
Listen I don't wont to annoy ...but why is something like this needed ?.....You can easily get by with a $12 carpa-tec jig .....

Why the need for such a broad track ? I can imagine it might help with very narrow chisels...but such tools I would think are more practically sharpened by hand...

Most of my sharpening is done on plane blades which are wide enough to give you enough stability...I would think the broader the track gets, the more square the blade has to be held, becuase you can't rock the track as much.....If you've got a narrow track, like the carpatec jig has, you don't have to worry about squareness at all, since your fingers pressure is right up along the blades edge, ensuring that everypart of the edge is in contact with the stone , thus its always square, and whether it rocks or not is of no consequence....
Besides you want to be able to rock it anyway, right, to feather the edges......

And how often do you need to sharpen a blade larger in width than what you can hold in the carpatec guide...? rarely I'd say,,,, and if you have to, just make up a little jig to sit in the guide that will hold your wide blade or skew blade......for me thats just a plate of steel with two taped bolts in ......

And back bevels are easily solved......just tap and bolt on a small bearing to the side of the jig and use upside down...... I've been doing this a couple of years.......its allowed me to sharpen at any angle from 2 degrees up .......just do a little trigonometry,,,,determine how far out the blade must extend to get a certain degrees ,,,,,but it up against a fence and niko pen it so you can get that angle again......and when the jigs running on that one small bearing, even though its on the side, its quite stable because again all your pressure should be at the edge not at the bearing(or track is it.)....and back bevels don't need much work anyway......only a few strokes on the polishing stone.....which is something I do all the time anyway whether I need a back bevel or not because I work with a lot of old blades with small pits in their backs from rust.....if you back bevel, your sharpening into the blade more and out of the range of these pits......meaning you don't have to bust your guts on the coarse grit to get all those pits out.....

Look....I'll go get some pictures....

I don't mean to be a killjoy but I think its important to be realistic,,,,,a lot of these expensive jigs can be just unnesserary gimicks ......... (this will steam someone up for sure....)

silentC
7th June 2005, 02:45 PM
Here's a theory for you. It may be total poppycock. It probably is but I'll tell you anyway.

I was talking to my missus about this very thing last night. It was after I had finished reading Terry Gordon's article on sharpening in AWR. (He doesn't use a guide at all. The technique is in using the back of the hollow ground bevel to guide your hand so that you hold the blade at the correct angle on the stone. The micro bevel angle is set by ear.)

I said to her "everytime you open a magazine or book on the subject of golf, do you find that someone is writing about their 100% gauranteed putting method?" She replied that yes, this is a subject that is given a lot of discussion and debate. There are books on it, gadgets to help improve it - and everyone devotes a lot of energy to finding the perfect 'never-miss' technique. There are different styles of putter all designed to help you get it right.

Then there's the people who just walk onto the green with their old standard putter and hit the ball in the hole. The reason they can do this is because they have stopped analysing it and they just do it.

Now one of the biggest things in golf is 'muscle memory'. If you want to be good at it, you need to get to a point where your muscles are trained to follow a precise set of movements to guide the club or putter in a specific way. Once you can do that, you don't need to think about it anymore. Some of the techniques described in the magazines and books and some of the gadgets sold are aimed at muscle memory training. The idea that once you repeat a movement so many times, your muscles 'know' how to do it without you having to think about it.

I think there is a certain amount of this in sharpening. If you can train your hand to hold the blade the right way as you move it on the stone, you don't need the guide at all.

The question is, does using the guide help to train your muscles? Or are we forever tied to the guide?

bitingmidge
7th June 2005, 02:47 PM
Listen I don't wont to annoy ...but why is something like this needed ?.....You can easily get by with a $12 carpa-tec jig .....
Apricot,

Who said it was needed? :D :D :D

All the points you made are valid, except I think for the one about the width of the roller.

I made the point above, that the bevel angle set ever so precisely on the new one, was EXACTLY the same as I achieved with my Eclipse (the original version of the Carbatec one). To do that I made a jig out of aluminium angle to ensure the blade always had exactly the same projection, and a second jig to move the blade for a micro bevel.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with it, and the changes you have made are about all I ever would have needed. I guess I should learn how to "just tap a thread" or even cut a bit of plate steel..... but there's so much else to do at the moment!

I also had a timber jig that worked perfectly well, but was a step down from the Eclipse, just as the Eclipse is a step down from the LV.

For me the decision was based on a few things:

1) It made a better birthday present from my beloved, than the box of undies that was the alternative.

2) It makes repeatable settings reliably and simply, and much, much easier to achieve, and is therefore a better bet for a sharpening mug like me.

3) It's just a lovely bit of engineering both in the design thought and in the execution which makes so smooth to adjust and use effortlessly (remember it is brand new too :D). In satisfaction terms, it's right up there with my original 25° timber sled which slid on plastic rails straddling the oilstone, and probably doesn't work much better.

I'm no mad purchaser of jigs, in fact the opposite, but I'm also no great shakes as a sharpener and anything that makes that chore easier and more pleasant is worth it!

By the way, I don't seem to have the same control as you over narrow wheeled eclipse, and particularly my narrow blades always seemed to end up a bit skewed or woofy.... still perfectly adequate for use, but woofy none the less!


I don't mean to be a killjoy but I think its important to be realistic,,,,,a lot of these expensive jigs can be just unnesserary gimicks ......... (this will steam someone up for sure....)

I agree! (and this is unnecessary, but not a gimmick!)

Cheers,

P
:D :D :D

NewLou
7th June 2005, 02:52 PM
Giddy apricotripper,

Yup Apples and oranges, & yer your dead right theres no doubt that a cheaper Jig will do the Job........................If you listen to Bob Smalser, Barry and other forum members who have Done their time and learn't 'old school' methods they often comment about not being able to understand all the Whoooo Ha about Sharpening Techniques various Stones n grinding gizmos!!!!!

I guess at the end of the day it depends on how perdantic you wanna be about how sharp your blades are and whats the best way to go about doing it.......................I find "The Sharpening Camps" all a bit confusing and would rather spend a little time sharpening and a lot a time woodworking!!!!

I hope Bob or Barry do a post on Sharpening soon so that I can finally discover the quickest most economical way to keep things sharp!!!! As always though I guess this is about personal choice ........................ I'll try a few techniques till I find what works for me

For what its worth I found your post a great read!!!

REgards Lou

bitingmidge
7th June 2005, 02:56 PM
The question is, does using the guide help to train your muscles? Or are we forever tied to the guide?
I don't have any muscles.

And while I continue to work at a keyboard and telephone, it is unlikely that I ever will.

I also don't use my tools enough to sharpen them often enough for any of my muscles to remember what they were doing even if I did.

I thought I had come close to getting hand sharpening right many years ago, then I built my first jig, and realised how far off the mark I'd been.

I'd prefer to spend time doing stuff other than fighting with chisels I couldn't sharpen properly.

3 Sharpening jigs in 30 years is hardly an obsession! Neither is the methodoligy, oilstones for the first 20, scary and belt sander for ten, sander and waterstones now and not looking back.


Cheers,

P :D :D :D

JDarvall
7th June 2005, 11:08 PM
Biting midge....... apologies on saying it was a 'gimick' ... probably poor choice of words....especially to the designers who probably put a lot of time into it.....and I can understand recieving it over a box of undies......I get socks.....and lots of them.......I have so many from so many birthdays and christmases I end up using them as rags before I ever wear them..........and I probably shouldn't critisize it since I have never used it.......I just get a knee jerk reaction to products that advertise in the tone that implys you can't live without them .....paging through these catalogs and all these new products I feel that 80% of the products arn't nessessary.....which must be a big problem for someone new to woodwork.......there must be plenty who end up spending thousands on stuff they don't need.......

I have a way to go myself, but I think its a very important process to becoming an adapt craftman if you can resolve problems in shop.....the problems force you to understand your tools and materials in depth,,,, meaning you'll be able to make your own jigs and repair quickly rather than go...... bugger its broken....... no matter I'll go buy another one .....drop another $100.....

And as for doing it by hand....... buggered if I know how they did it reliably......different times indeed.......I guess back then carpenters and cabinet makers where built like butchers.....everything done by hand.....no jointers or thicknessers.......I'd imagine with such exercise they had vise like hands and strong wrists.....stable jigs in themselves......a guide wouldn't be needed also because the blades where so much thicker as well so the bevel would have a more stable footing on their stones........and generally I would say there blades wouldn't have to be as sharp due to the quality of the timber that seemed to be so readily available back then........this last point seems to be backed up whenever I sharpen up an old matherson blade, even those from old cabinetmakers shops. The backs of these blades are always scratched, not polished to the degree that most of us seem to expect as standard........

derekcohen
8th June 2005, 12:19 AM
apricotripper

I have these romantic fantasies ... illusions ... of travelling back in time, not so much to the technology of yesteryear, but to the values (the experience may be just a figment of my imagination but the sentiments are real). This is one of the factors that fuels my interest in handtools. This interest includes the history of handtools as well as the techniques of their use. Of course, another reason why I choose to use handtools is because I prefer this expression of art (just as some might experience a high with their routertable). And so my collection of tools includes a mix of the old (some quite collectable - although my rule is that all must be used and not just admired on a shelf) and the new (some quite futuristic, if seen through the eyes of yesteryear). I know many Neanderthal woodworkers who would look down on some of the newer designs, but they miss the point that these still continue to carry the spirit of yesteryear. I find using handtools challenging and exhilirating, but many beginners find them frustrating and often give up at the start of the journey. It is important to support them through the early conflicts of self confidence until they grow and fly on their own. In the context of this is seems such a thing of minor importance just how we go about getting a blade sharp. What is more important is that we use the blades, use the tools that use the blades, and that we support the romance and ideals of yesteryear. As it happens, I spent time learning to freehand my blades. In part this was to further my hand skills, in part because it is a quicker process for some sharpening tasks. I am reasonably good at it, but not good enough that I get to maintain flat bevels. Over time they round off - just like the woodworkers of yesterday! I think that one of the fantasies of these woodworkers having the ability to freehand sharpen with the strength of a god is an illusion - I have seen many, many vintage blades that looked like they could not scrape paint, never mind shave arm hairs.

There is another factor that we must consider - that we are ushering in a new era in handplanes, one that is going to insist on a higher degree of discipline and exactness when sharpening blades. This is not because there is a moving towards the machining mentality of some obsessional power tool users, but rather because the new order of hand planes demands precision in setting up.

I describe the following rather simplistically, but sufficiently I hope, since I wish to make a point and not ramble on and on.

If all we used were bevel down planes, then there is no need to be precise when establishing the bevel angle. 25 or 29 or 31 degrees - it does not make much difference. Honing freehand is not going to be penalised if we wander off a designated, say, 25 degree objective. Even honing a microbevel - difficult enough to do freehand - is possible since it matters little if these are off by a few degrees.

However, we are now witnessing a small revolution in handplane design in the form of the increasing numbers of bevel up planes coming into the market. The advantage of these planes is not just that they are fundamentally a better design than the bevel down brigade (since they offer improved blade stability, with resultant reduced chatter), and that they do this at a lesser financial cost as well, but these bevel up planes are just so more adaptable and versatile than anything else. It is the versatility factor that demands a the precision I mentioned earlier on. Where it matters little at what angle the bevel down blade is honed, it matters all what the bevel up blade is honed at since this is what determines their cutting angle. There is a vaste difference between a blade that cuts at 45 degrees and one that cuts at 55 or 60 degrees. So now we need the jigs and guides to hone to precise angles.

Along with this change comes a growing awareness - driven by teachers such as David Charlesworth - that there are sharpening strategies that can reduce the amount of time needed to get a sharp edge and, further more, that it costs little extra time to take this to a near-perfect level. The age of micro-bevels and back-bevels (from the "ruler trick") is now with us.

Yet another component is the advancement in sharpening equipment: better and better waterstones that hone fast and at lower microns, and powered sharpening equipment that makes it a less physical activity, so that we may be willing to take the time to do it properly rather than give up halfway.

I hate sharpening because I am somewhat hyperactive and get impatient when I need to stop in the middle of a task to rehone a blade. Ironically, this has led me to take a keen interest in sharpening, if only to find a way to do it well but as quickly as possible. As my sharpening has improved, so I have come to appreciate a really sharp blade. I tend to work with difficult timbers and these are merciless with less than well-sharpened edges. They also require high angle planes, so the combination of these factors means that I must pay careful attention to the way in which my blades are prepared, particularly among the bevel up ones I use.

In summary, I do see an increasing move towards a science of handtool use in woodworking today, one that promises higher levels of performance at an affordable price, that was once the domain of the very high-end tools in the past. We do have a choice - to go down this path or not. Personally, I do both. I enjoy the simplicity of older tools as much as the higher octane performance of the new generation. I will also continue to use a mix of the old and the new when it comes to preparing the blades for these tools.

Regards from Perth

Derek

bitingmidge
8th June 2005, 12:31 AM
apologies on saying it was a 'gimick' ... probably poor choice of words....especially to the designers who probably put a lot of time into it.
No need to apologise to me, it's all in the spirit of debate! (but I'm sure the designers appreciate it!) :D :D

I played some more tonight... gee it's nice, but there's another thread where someone wants a recommendation for a beginner's outfit, and that really has me thinking.

Hmmm.....


P

JDarvall
8th June 2005, 01:24 AM
Derek
Unquestionally passionate all right,,,,,,, similar sickness to what I have......I'm too fond of yesteryear......I wish it was more like that now... I'd be more than willing to live that way, pushing a plane for a living,,,,,now if you push only a plane I very much doubt you can make a living ! .... and I think thats a real shame.......

power tools do things quickly .....but thats about it...their horrible.....their so noisey its like a jets suddenly taking off in your shed.....you got to look like a alien to use them with ear muffs, glasses and they produce so much dust that just gets everywhere....and to combat that you need yet another machine to get rid of the dust.....not at all like the effortless theropudic (spelling ?) process of hand planing.....the way the shavings curl up in that mesmorising way.....and you end up with a floor covered in shavings that are just cleared away in a flash....not like dust.


apricotripper
Where it matters little at what angle the bevel down blade is honed, it matters all what the bevel up blade is honed at since this is what determines their cutting angle. There is a vaste difference between a blade that cuts at 45 degrees and one that cuts at 55 or 60 degrees. So now we need the jigs and guides to hone to precise angles.
Derek
I agree with you on the concept of bevel up planes......45 degrees effective pitch differing over 55 degrees etc.....ie the need to get the angle spot on.......but what I don't understand is what differs in the way you set up a modern guide (say the MK2) to get that accuracy over the way you set up a simple guide like that carpatec version I have.......I'm certain that I'm getting the angles I'm aiming at.....I must be ......afterall I set it in the same way.....ie. the distance from the edge to the guide.......this distance is always a constant for a particular angle isn't it , regardless of wear?.......you do that too with the MK2 as well don't you ? or am I missing something.......if I'm out then at most it could only be by 1 degree either way.....and surely that couldn't make that much a difference to a bevel up plane........

and sharpening by hand....I practised a lot too, hit and miss for me, dependent too much on my mood.....I don't think even a beginner should practise it......In my opinion it increases the chances of him quiting before he realises what its like to plane with a sharp blade..... unless of coarse he practises only in the company of an experenced type.....but thats becoming rarer I think..... got to use a guide......

derekcohen
8th June 2005, 01:48 AM
apricotripper wrote:

what I don't understand is what differs in the way you set up a modern guide (say the MK2) to get that accuracy over the way you set up a simple guide like that carpatec version I have

As I stated at the beginning of the review:

Notable new features include:

- a wider track, ensuring greater stability
- ability to use wider blades (up to 3”or 75mm)
- a wide range of bevel angles, from 20° - 54°
- the ability to cater for both micro bevels (in 1° and 2° increments)
as well as backbevels (10° - 20° range)

And it does this with MUCH greater ease and repeatability that the copy Eclipse honing guide (which is the "Carba-tec" you are using). The Eclipse is a good guide but it is not in the same class as the Mk II. Try using it with thick blade, such as Japanese chisels. Can the Eclipse hone a microbevel WITHOUT changing the blade setting. The Mk II can. Can the Eclipse hone very short blades, such as spokeshaves? The Mk II can.

With a good jig you can set up anything (and I particularly like your modification for back bevels - VERY nice job!). The Mk II just does it all for you, and more.

Regards from Perth

Derek

bitingmidge
8th June 2005, 08:09 AM
Can the Eclipse hone a microbevel WITHOUT changing the blade setting.

Actually Derek, it took owning the Mk2 for one day for me to realise that the Eclipse can!

It was forehead slapping time, but I had a small laminex sample, and popped it on the stone for the Eclipse wheel to run on, elevating it just enough to create a few degrees of microbevel! DOH!!!

WHY does one always think of those things AFTER years of moving the blade?? :confused:

I still love the MK2 though.

P
:D :D :D

Pat
8th June 2005, 08:41 AM
When will LV release this monster on the unsuspecting Australian public? Which major woodworking provisioner will pick up the ball and import it at a fair price?Rob/Darth/Hague/Carba-tec WA/Carba-Tec/Mik???? These are the questions that need to be answered, as from Derek's and the Midge's reports, this is one of the better sharpening systems around, especially for the inept! :)

I know that I could order it direct from LV, but I try to keep spending my money in Australia so others can have a job and at the moment I am flat motherless broke after the Sydney WWW show :(

JDarvall
8th June 2005, 09:51 AM
yep......I'd say your right.....it can do all these things........I suppose what it comes down to is what the thing can do straight off the shelf........it was just my point that with a few modifications to something we have already we can also do all these things without digging deep into our pockets , with a little plate I can sharpen everything, from the very shortest blades to the skew.......and there is another advantage that these cheap guides have over that expensive one.........their expendable.......I have about 4.....I can drop them, throw them, modify them, and it doesn't matter because their only $12......and with a few of them you can keep them set ready for just one purpose each ..... you don't have to change any settings

And back bevels........10-20 degrees is the range for the MK2...... I can get as low as 2 degrees consistantly......

And whats the issue with changing the blade setting and microbevels.......if keeping the blade squarely set is not an issue then changing the setting would be as relatively quick as turning a knob(is that whats done?) to get the microbevel.....I just line up my guide to my setting fence, slightly loosen the tightening knob, draw blade back a bit so that it lines up with the say 30 degree line (or whatever the next steeper angle is) tighten up and I'm on my way again.........I mean its so quick, you do it without thinking........Whys that need to be bettered ?

mat
20th June 2005, 10:21 AM
Derek

If you had both the old and the new version honing guides to choose from and you were sharpening a narrow chisel which would you use and why?

derekcohen
20th June 2005, 01:45 PM
Mat

Without any doubt, the Mk II is much better than the Mk I in every respect.

This was not the case with narrow chisels until a few weeks ago. My Mk II was a preproduction version and, as you would have read, I had reservations about its ability with narrow chisels, particularly those that tapered significantly. The Mk I was, in fact, slightly better in this area. BUT LV responded to this and quickly came out with an improved blade clamp (you would not know that there was a change unless you know what to look for), and the result was a significant improvement. I will detail this in a forthcoming review.

All production Mk II honing guides come with the improved blade clamp. There should be no concern that you may get the preproduction version.

The short answer is that the Mk II now is very good in the one area in which it was average or questionable.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Rocker
20th June 2005, 10:27 PM
Got my Mk 2 today, and am very impressed with the ingenuity of its design. I think, though, that I shall continue to grind the main bevel using Derek's jig on the bench sander. Grinding the main bevel by hand is so much more time consuming that I would never go back to it. Whilst I agree with Apricotripper that the Carbatec $12 jig can be used quite effectively, the Mk 2 makes it really easy to get consistently accurate results without the need to have the three hands that would be so useful to have when setting a blade in the Carbatec jig. So I shall use the Mk 2 just for honing micobevels and back-bevels.

I have to admit that I am not fanatical about going to extreme lengths to avoid tearout in difficult grain. If I get minor tearout, I sand it away; and if I get serious tearout, I fill it with 5-minute epoxy, and sand it smooth. At least in jarrah, this method seems pretty effective in hiding tearout. I know that the purists maintain that a planed surface is superior to a sanded one, but it takes consummate skill to produce a perfectly flat surface by planing alone with out any need for sanding; and I am very sceptical as to whether anyone can tell the difference between a skilfully planed and a sanded surface anyway after the finish has been applied.

Rocker

JDarvall
21st June 2005, 08:59 AM
a friendly debate hey......


Got my Mk 2 today, and am very impressed with the ingenuity of its design. I think, though, that I shall continue to grind the main bevel using Derek's jig on the bench sander. Grinding the main bevel by hand is so much more time consuming that I would never go back to it. Whilst I agree with Apricotripper that the Carbatec $12 jig can be used quite effectively, the Mk 2 makes it really easy to get consistently accurate results without the need to have the three hands that would be so useful to have when setting a blade in the Carbatec jig. So I shall use the Mk 2 just for honing micobevels and back-bevels.
Rocker

I don't understand why three hands are helpful to use carbatec jig ???? one hand binds the jig to blade with thumb and forfinger whilst front of blade sits on your setting board ,,,other hand adjusts the knob .......should be very quick

And I don't think chisels should be sharpened with your waterstones ....period......excepting backing off and excepting very wide chisels because.......they are narrow enough to do straight on the grinder and buffing wheel within a couple of minutes at most......without the danger of boring small dishes in your stones.....and the importance of having a perfectly square edge isn't the same as with plane blades....freehand, you can take it straight in to square the edge,...freehand, again you can sharpen the bevel, fingers right up near the edge to monitor heat,,,to that point where it burrs,,,, then straight to a hard felt buffing wheel (must be trued so when it turns there's no bumping the blade) with compound to buff just the tip to knock off that burr and then back off on your polishing stone
......I mean if your observant with plenty of light its ridicously easy and fast.... I did my chisels on stones origionally, and since I got a buffing wheel setup I'll never go back to sharpening them on the stones......



I have to admit that I am not fanatical about going to extreme lengths to avoid tearout in difficult grain. If I get minor tearout, I sand it away; and if I get serious tearout, I fill it with 5-minute epoxy, and sand it smooth. At least in jarrah, this method seems pretty effective in hiding tearout. I know that the purists maintain that a planed surface is superior to a sanded one, but it takes consummate skill to produce a perfectly flat surface by planing alone with out any need for sanding; and I am very sceptical as to whether anyone can tell the difference between a skilfully planed and a sanded surface anyway after the finish has been applied.
Rocker

and I agree with you.....there definetly is a point where hand planing becomes too time consuming....having to sharpen greater angles.....only to find it didn't work...still tearout....and so on......easier to get out the sandpaper......but I still think the finish straight from the plane is far superior......in particular it feels different.....the pores aren't filled with dust as if with sanding......planing always worth trying first.......and no dust.....I hate dust.....gets up your nose , everywhere.....

Roberto Perez F
25th June 2005, 08:00 AM
Derek, I got my new Veritas Mk-II homing guide today however; I will like to know how do you sharp spokeshaves and small planes blades in this jig?

Bobby

bitingmidge
25th June 2005, 09:40 AM
Roberto,

Veritas make a small blade holder for that very purpose. I've been using one for some time, and it works right down to the tiniest blades (with a bit of caution) . I haven't tried it in the new jig, but no reason why it wouldn't.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=3&p=44484&cat=1,43072,43078&ap=1

Cheers,

P

MikeW
25th June 2005, 10:46 AM
Hi Everyone,
The Veritas small blade holder does work in the MK.II.

The LN spokeshave blades I have I can fit into the MK.II without the small blade holder, but they fit best with the blade carrier set to do Back Bevels (the green setting).

With the blade carrier set to do back bevels, the registration stop, for a 30* primary bevel, is the Standard Angle setting of 40* (the yellow 40* setting).

This places the entire spokeshave blade in the clamp except about a half inch out the front.

I find this more accurate and sturdy than the LV small blade holder.

Mike

derekcohen
25th June 2005, 01:04 PM
I asked LV about add-ons for spokeshave blades, but have not heard back from them in this regard. Playing around with the MkII (I have to be careful how I phrase this :) ), as Mike has done (I have to be careful here as well :) :) ), I can add:

For the typical Stanley spokeshave blade (such as a #53), which uses a 25 degree bevel, do the following:

- Set the Red 50-degree stop on the Registration Jig
- Set the Blade Carrier Locking knob at Green

Regards from Perth

Derek

mat
28th June 2005, 10:00 AM
Received my honing guide today, looks very good. Is there supposed to be some sort of rubber pad on either side of the blade clamping area (like the MK1) or is it metal to metal contact both sides?

derekcohen
28th June 2005, 01:02 PM
Hi Mat

There is no rubber pad on the Mk II.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Groggy
18th September 2005, 12:24 PM
I've been playing with the new MKII sharpener and had a slight epiphany. After sharpening a few chisels I changed to plane blades. The technique I'd used for chisels was similar to what you see earlier in this thread with Derek pushing the MKII. i.e. I set up the device then place it on the stone with the blade edge facing away from me.

While pushing a plane blade in this same manner, I started wondering why I was using the same technique I used for chisels, which reduces the pressure you can apply to the bevel. This is ok for chisels which are generally small and allow for a high PSI on the surface area presented to the stone, but a plane blade is much wider (up to three times) and needs greater pressure to achieve the same PSI. The answer is fairly simple, turn the sharpener around.

By turning the MKII around so the blade faces you, you get three distinct advantages:
you can apply much greater pressure with your thumbs pushing directly on the back of the blade,
by pushing the bevel away from you, you draw a burr along the edge, and
finally, you can better use your weight to evenly distribute or correct a skewed bevel.
I realise sharpening technique is somewhat subjective, but for plane blades I've found this a much improved technique and faster.

Paddy
20th September 2005, 06:59 PM
Does anyone know if the M11 is available in OZ yet and If so at what price?

Have been thinking of buying the carbatec guide at $25, which also fits mitre slot on grinder. Or is there a better alternative ?

Do you think there is a chance that the M11 might be at the Melbourne show ?

Paddy

boban
20th September 2005, 11:07 PM
Does anyone know if the M11 is available in OZ yet and If so at what price?

Have been thinking of buying the carbatec guide at $25, which also fits mitre slot on grinder. Or is there a better alternative ?

Do you think there is a chance that the M11 might be at the Melbourne show ?

Paddy

I bought the MkII at the Canberra WWW from Mik International for $89.

Pat
10th October 2005, 01:37 PM
Derek, does this beast handle skew chisels?

derekcohen
10th October 2005, 02:08 PM
Hi Pat

The "Beast" can handle skew blades (and much better than the old Mk I - no contest). However, LV have not yet come out with their attachment for this, and I have no idea when it will be released. I don't even know what it will look like.

Consequently, I have published an article, Advanced Angles on the Lee Valley Honing Guide Mk II on the Wood Central website which will guide you through this procedure. I have posted the info here as well, but in bits-and-pieces. Mike (MikeW) has also some good ideas in this regard and, if he sees this request of yours, will have useful things to say.

The Wood Central link is:

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=handtools&file=articles_566.shtml

Regards from Perth

Derek

kiwioutdoors
10th October 2005, 04:17 PM
Looks like a great piece of kit. I want one but I guess Ill need to wait until May. Are you talking about the veritas sharpening system as being the predecessor to this. Or am I confused.

derekcohen
10th October 2005, 04:30 PM
Are you talking about the veritas sharpening system as being the predecessor to this.

The LV Honing Guide Mk II is the latest version of the "veritas sharpening system" you refer to (which might now be termed Mk I). They are similar in concept but the Mk II is a redesign and has much greater versatility.

Regards from Perth

Derek

MikeW
10th October 2005, 06:16 PM
Derek, does this beast handle skew chisels?
Hey Pat,

Along with Derek's templates in the article, one can also go to the following web page:

http://wenzloffandsons.com/temp/guide/index.html

As it was just a quick demonstration at one time, it is not very polished, and so if you have any questions, feel free to ask here or email me (usually gets my attention quicker).

The LV skew angle jig will most likely be soon. It works well for reliably determining and setting any angle I've seen on an edge tool.

Take care, Mike

Pat
10th October 2005, 07:53 PM
Thankyou to both Darth(Derek) and MikeW for their simple answers to my question. I will be printing them out and adding them to my folder of "web" woodworking solutions. :)

jleejj
20th March 2006, 04:46 PM
Hi there,

Recently found this forum. Hopefully someone will see the new post and reply.

I just bought a Veritas MkII honing guide as well, and I notice that when I rotate the cam to produce a microbevel, the final bevel that I hone is rather skewed. I saw the behavior on two rather cheap chisels and ignored it, but on a decent plane blade the microbevel setting immediately started to produce a bevel line that wasn't even close to matching the line formed by the back of the blade and the bevel.

Does anybody else have this problem? Am I doing something wrong, or should I be contacting Lee Valley for a replacement?

Thanks

Mirboo
20th March 2006, 05:18 PM
I have the Mk II and I haven't noticed the problem you mention. My microbevels seem fine. I don't really know what would be causing your problem.

I'm sure some others on this forum will see that this thread has kicked into gear again and will offer some suggestions. I'm interested to hear what they say.

Regards,
Mirboo.

Driver
20th March 2006, 05:26 PM
I used my Mk II extensively over the weekend to sharpen about 8 or 9 plane blades. I used the microbevel feature for all of them. In every case the microbevel was dead square.

If you're getting this problem consistently, I would suggest that you have a defective tool. Contact Lee Valley is my advice. They have a justifiably great reputation for customer service. Rob Lee is also a member of these forums so he'll probably see your post.

Incidentally, I assume that you are setting the microbevel by turning the cam adjuster with the blade still set in the Guide? In other words, the blade is set square, using the squaring device, then you grind the main bevel, and, without altering any other setting, adjust the cam for a microbevel? If so, and your micro bevel is at a different angle from the main bevel, then you may have a faulty Guide.

However, if you are making any other adjustment before adjusting the cam, you may well be taking the blade out of square. Does that make sense?

jleejj
20th March 2006, 05:54 PM
Thank you for the feedback so far.

Yes, I have not adjusted anything other than the cam between honing the primary bevel and honing the microbevel. The stones are new Shapton's and seem to be perfectly flat.

The bevel is quite pronounced. On a 1 5/8" wide Stanley block plane blade, for the microbevel to just barely appear on the right side of the blade results in an almost 1/16" microbevel on the left side. It is also at a consistent angle with the previous two chisels I have honed.

bitingmidge
20th March 2006, 06:17 PM
Does anybody else have this problem? Am I doing something wrong, or should I be contacting Lee Valley for a replacement?
Yep!

I haven't done anything about it, assuming it was me....

P

Rob Lee
21st March 2006, 03:28 AM
Thank you for the feedback so far.

Yes, I have not adjusted anything other than the cam between honing the primary bevel and honing the microbevel. The stones are new Shapton's and seem to be perfectly flat.

The bevel is quite pronounced. On a 1 5/8" wide Stanley block plane blade, for the microbevel to just barely appear on the right side of the blade results in an almost 1/16" microbevel on the left side. It is also at a consistent angle with the previous two chisels I have honed.

Hi -

Be glad to swap it out... if you send me your address, I'll have a replacement sent right away... and you can return the one you have once received. You can email me directly at [email protected] . Will also let you know what we find...

Cheers -

Rob

Groggy
21st March 2006, 10:08 AM
Yep!

I haven't done anything about it, assuming it was me....

PMe too! I had thought I was 'leaning' to one side slightly.

bitingmidge
21st March 2006, 11:22 AM
Rather than waste Rob's time if there's no problem, is there anyone within a few hundred K's of me who has a MkII and gets perfect parallel microbevels every time?

I'ld like to do a kind of duelling sharpening guides thing, and see if I can bugger up your blades as well!

Just kidding, they work fine, just don't look like they've been sharpened by someone as clever as I like to think I am!

Cheers,

P
:D :D

TassieKiwi
21st March 2006, 01:18 PM
Duelling Sharpeners! (cue corny banjo music).

PS 'on yer Rob, straight on to it once again.http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/images/icons/icon14.gif

geetar
13th July 2008, 10:25 AM
Hi there,

Recently found this forum. Hopefully someone will see the new post and reply.

I just bought a Veritas MkII honing guide as well, and I notice that when I rotate the cam to produce a microbevel, the final bevel that I hone is rather skewed. I saw the behavior on two rather cheap chisels and ignored it, but on a decent plane blade the microbevel setting immediately started to produce a bevel line that wasn't even close to matching the line formed by the back of the blade and the bevel.

Does anybody else have this problem? Am I doing something wrong, or should I be contacting Lee Valley for a replacement?

Thanks

I have this issue too. I bought the MK II honing guide and dont quie get it. There is alot of up down play with the angle guide is attached as well as side to side movement. I dont get how one can set a tool when the guide moves this much. Yes the thumbscrew is fully tight.

Skewed everytime.

I also bought the stone pond. The rails on this to wander to much for my liking (side to side) I almost bought the $410 poswer system instead and now wish I;d had instead of dropping $200 on the stones/MKII set.

derekcohen
13th July 2008, 01:23 PM
Hi Geetar

Firstly, welcome to the forum. I hope you have a sense of humour - you will need it here :) Nevertheless, advice given is usually knowlegable.

When it comes to asking questions about sharpening and honing guides, you will get a million different replies since there are so many different woodworkers responding from so many different positions of experience. I am not sure which golfer - Jack Nicholas or Gary Player (that dates me!) - said "the more I practice the luckier I get". The fact is, the more you get to use a guide, the better you will be at using it. There is no guide that I know of (and I have many) that works 100% out of the box. With the exception of possibly the Worksharp machine, there are few guides/machines that think for you, and using handtools are not about that anyway. Too many novices jump from one sharpening/grinding medium to another looking for "the solution" and never find it because it that is not where the answer lies.

I prefer honing freehand but do use guides. When I do I try and imagine that I am still working freehand.

The Veritas Honing Guide Mk II is a superb guide and will do about 90% of chisels and plane blades in an effortless way. Like everything, it needs to be set up and used correctly.

You are probably aware that all blades require equal pressure from the hold down knobs? What you are probably not aware is that there can also be thought of as your "steering wheel". That is, they allow you to adjust the angle of grind. Just add/remove pressure on one side (or both) if the angle is too much/little.

This type of guide (clamp down) works best with flat and parallel blades. Three basic errors for troubleshooting:

1. A blade that is not even in thickness will cant to one side automatically.
2. A blade that has a back that is not flat - one where the back has a high point - will pivot on this high point and move about in the holder.
3. A blade that is not parallel from side-to-side will hone perpendicularly to the side that is clamped.

Practice ... with awareness of what you are doing.

Regards from Perth

Derek

mhewitt
14th July 2008, 02:18 AM
Hi there,

Recently found this forum. Hopefully someone will see the new post and reply.

I just bought a Veritas MkII honing guide as well, and I notice that when I rotate the cam to produce a microbevel, the final bevel that I hone is rather skewed. I saw the behavior on two rather cheap chisels and ignored it, but on a decent plane blade the microbevel setting immediately started to produce a bevel line that wasn't even close to matching the line formed by the back of the blade and the bevel.

Does anybody else have this problem? Am I doing something wrong, or should I be contacting Lee Valley for a replacement?

Thanks


Hi -

Be glad to swap it out... if you send me your address, I'll have a replacement sent right away... and you can return the one you have once received. You can email me directly at [email protected] . Will also let you know what we find...

Cheers -

Rob

i have also found this problem with my new mkii; when i contacted lee valley customer service they told me it was "manufacturing tolerances"

since the microbevel adjust seems to only act on one side of the roller - the other side has a concentric axle, i can't see how it would ever be otherwise...

geetar
14th July 2008, 02:31 AM
Practice ... with awareness of what you are doing.

Regards from Perth

Derek

You entire post makes sense. I didnt think for a second that technique is part of the problem. The post following yours exposes the other side of the coin too!

I like Lee Valley. Wouldnt want to diss them just for the sake of complaining.

Even with perfect technique though I have some serious doubts.

1. the angle guide moves up and down when locked in place. So If I want a 20 degree angle but my guide moves a good 10 degrees ... how do I know what angle I really am setting the blade at? Would have to manually check thus defeating the purpose.

As for the skew problem the things is it skews each blade eaxctly the same every times - no matter what blade. I'm not talking a little bit. Its huge. I sharpened 4 chisels and one spokeshave with the guide and allhave the exact same slanted microbevel line.

Seems they know about it. Thats a shame. Perhaps they are having a hard time contracting a reliable production team. If they know it though. they shouldnt be selling them until that gets worked out.

sumu
25th July 2008, 11:11 PM
Hello,

I do not have Veritas honing guide, so I have to ask this:

Does MK II assume by default that your plane irons and chisel blades are evenly thick across the blade? Blades may be tapered lengthwise and that should not be any problem, but how the guide handles it if the chisel etc. blade has uneven thickness across the blade?

How the support surface for the blade works? I assume it is against back of the blade (at least should be), and if so, this support surface against the blade should be levelled/parallel with roller axis as well.

Geetar, Check it out if the honing guide body structure is twisted and if there is some dirt or some other stuff not belonging to the support surfaces. The problem could be there, then.

Kippis,

sumu

silentC
28th July 2008, 09:42 AM
the angle guide moves up and down when locked in place. So If I want a 20 degree angle but my guide moves a good 10 degrees ... how do I know what angle I really am setting the blade at? Would have to manually check thus defeating the purpose.
Just checked mine - I locked the guide to the jig and tried to waggle the end of it - it doesn't move. Maybe yours is defective.

In any case, how accurate do you think this type of jig is once you've set the angle and then ground a couple of thou off the end? The distance of the end of the chisel from the body of the jig has changed and so the angle will be microscopically different to what you set it at. How important is it to be spot on 25 degrees anyway? Does it make any difference in practice if it's 25.5?


since the microbevel adjust seems to only act on one side of the roller - the other side has a concentric axle, i can't see how it would ever be otherwise...
Have a closer look. The pin that locates the roller bearing in the jig housing is off-centre.

I don't use the micro bevel setting any more though. Surprisingly, my chisels and plane blades still seem able to cut without it.

Harry R
1st August 2008, 01:06 PM
The angle guide on my MkII locks on tight, no movement. I can't see how the guide could move if the pin of the brass locking screw sits tightly within the matching holes in the underside of the guide.

I have not experienced any skewing with this guide when honing most of my plane blades and chisel blades. The only exceptions are:
-Some shoulder plane blades as here the narrow part of the blade is being clamped and the much broader and heavier part of the blade is being sharpened. It stands to reason that the forces applied during sharpening may result in rotation around the pivot point (this being the point at which the blade is being clamped). I'm sure the physicists out there can explain this better than I can. Adding a matching spacer piece to provide extra clamping surface solves this.
-Thin chisels (eg. less than 6mm or 1/4"). Again, these tools do not provide enough clamping surface without an additional spacer piece.
-Old and well-used chisels where the back and the upper surface of the chisel are not parallel. Even adding pads to the clamping surfaces may not completely solve the skewing problem here.

The spacers I use are made from metal the same thickness as the blade being sharpened.

GraemeCook
18th August 2008, 04:43 PM
Hi Geetar

The Veritas Honing Guide Mk II is a superb guide and will do about 90% of chisels and plane blades in an effortless way. Like everything, it needs to be set up and used correctly.

You are probably aware that all blades require equal pressure from the hold down knobs? What you are probably not aware is that there can also be thought of as your "steering wheel". That is, they allow you to adjust the angle of grind. Just add/remove pressure on one side (or both) if the angle is too much/little.


Derek

Thanks Derek. Its seems obvious when you explain things so clearly. It all helps to steepen my learning curve.

Graeme