Australian machine tool history

[morrisman]

Interesting read

[.RC.]

Others included a complex
shell-forging machine; a lathe of 36-inch centre by 100-foot bed, costing
£55,000—the largest ever made in Australia ; lathes with 36- and 48-inc h
centre and 50 feet between. The first of these was completed at the Ipswic h
Railway Workshops (Queensland) with the aid of ninety firms from nearly
every State of the Commonwealth. It weighed 132 tons and required eight
large railway trucks to transport it to Victoria .
An equally impressive machine was a planer, 12 feet high by 8 feet
by 22 feet, designed by Merrett himself. Twenty-five firms in four different
States collaborated to construct it . It was large enough to take the whole
bed plate of a cargo ship engine, and capable of doing all the planing—
lengthwise and crosswise—in one setting. The horizontal boring machines
made, with 72-inch boring spindle, were as large as those made anywher e
else in the world. Some of the above machines were built with remarkabl e
speed. A steam, hydraulic, 2,000-ton forging press weighing 80 tons was
built and in operation fourteen weeks after its construction was begun .
Eight to twelve months would have been a reasonable period to buil d
this machine in time of peace .

Also interesting but not often thought of, was the development and manufacture of Tungsten Carbide and other cutting materials...

[Oldneweng]

I think I recall something about a 100ft bed lathe that was located in a museum. It may have been a Queensland railway museum. A previous thread I think it was.

Dean

[PDW]

You guys really should go to the Cockatoo Island dockyard historic site. There's still a lot of very big machinery there including a fixed bed planer.

I posted a pile of pix on the PM antiques forum a couple years ago.

PDW

[forp]

Why did all these have to stop? Imagine we are still doing it today how advance would it be?

[Jim Ferrous]

Thanks for the link.

[.RC.]

I think I recall something about a 100ft bed lathe that was located in a museum. It may have been a Queensland railway museum. A previous thread I think it was.

Dean

The one at Ipswich I think is a smaller one...

I am pretty sure there is a long bed lathe at ADI Bendigo... something like 100ft bed would have been for boring out cannon barrels....

[wbleeker]

Interesting I only flicked through it I will read it properly later. When I worked at AIS Port Kembla in the late seventies in the Number 1 Machine Shop there was a Ford Horizontal Borer with the Ford logo on it I presume this was of wartime manufacture there were also a couple of AIS lathes that were made onsite one was converted for deep hole drilling.I am not sure what else was in the older machine shop someone else might remember.
Will

[JohnQ]

I was told by a work colleague the lathe in the machine shop at Garden Is Sydney was 120 foot long to machine the prop shafts in the Vampire & Vendetta class destroyers.
Also that it was shortened when the class was mothballed.

JohnQ

[prk]

The one at Ipswich I think is a smaller one...

I am pretty sure there is a long bed lathe at ADI Bendigo... something like 100ft bed would have been for boring out cannon barrels....

The 100' VDF lathe we had in the Heavy Machine (No.10) shop was mainly used for Propellor shafts we made under the Australian Industry involvement programs for FFG, Anzacs, Huron Minehunters and Collins class submarines etc. Gun barrel machining and rifling was done on smaller machines in the General Machine (No.9) shop. The Heavy Machine shop along with the VDF lathe, 9m and 7m Scheiss boring machines etc was sold to the WA mining Engineering support company Hofmanns several years ago. It's good to see the machines are still working and I believe the company is doing well. The rest of the factory remains under the French company, Thales, manufacturing the very successful Bushmaster troop carrier for the ADF. We also had a very large Ipswich lathe there when I started 42 yrs ago. Been retired 2 yrs now. Peter

[.RC.]

The 100' VDF lathe we had in the Heavy Machine (No.10) shop was mainly used for Propellor shafts we made under the Australian Industry involvement programs for FFG, Anzacs, Huron Minehunters and Collins class submarines etc. Gun barrel machining and rifling was done on smaller machines in the General Machine (No.9) shop. The Heavy Machine shop along with the VDF lathe, 9m and 7m Scheiss boring machines etc was sold to the WA mining company Hofmanns several years ago. It's good to see the machines are still working and I believe the company is doing well. The rest of the factory remains under the French company, Thales, manufacturing the very successful Bushmaster troop carrier for the ADF. We also had a very large Ipswich lathe there when I started 42 yrs ago. Been retired 2 yrs now. Peter


They must have had a thing for VDF lathes... A friend carted two large VDF lathes out of there for a dealer..

Pretty sure this is one of the two Welcome to ESP Machinery (http://www.espmach.com.au/LC%20VDF%20Long%20Bed%20Photos.html)

[prk]

They must have had a thing for VDF lathes... A friend carted two large VDF lathes out of there for a dealer..

Pretty sure this is one of the two Welcome to ESP Machinery (http://www.espmach.com.au/LC%20VDF%20Long%20Bed%20Photos.html)

Sadly the big VDF Gun Barrel lathes at Bendigo and Maribrynong (Ordnance ->ADI->Thales) have been disposed of along with the capability, although some of the skilled tradesmen are now putting wheels on military vehicles.....
OFB was built in 1942 in response to the fears shown in the original post. Some of the planned work dictated the size of the Heavy machine shop where rifled sleeves were replaced (shrunk) into existing Naval barrels as they wore. See attached pic of the 8" wire wound barrel and the Heat treatment section (circa 1943) where the barrel is being loaded into the 40' vertical furnace.
For those interested in barrel manufacture, the wire was about 1/8” square and up to 8 miles of it was wound on in layers to contain the huge pressures. Better than the original rope wound hoops on wooden Chinese barrels.
The 105mm Leopard tank barrels we made were hydraulically “Auto Frettaged” to create the same effect of “self hooping” by exceeding the elastic limit in the bore but not the OD. The 105mm Hamel barrels we made were swage auto frettaged at OFM using an oversized Tungsten Carbide slug pushed through the bore before rifling and machining at Bendigo.
One of the larger machines was an Innocenti Horizontal borer which can be seen in the attached pic of the foundations and machining a Ball mill half section. Other shots show the FFG Prop shaft made on the big lathe and machining a blade.285993285994285995285996285997285998

[morrisman]

This may be the lathe mentioned in the text I pasted ?

Amta Ward Production Lathe in Melbourne, VIC | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Amta-ward-Production-Lathe-/171126274998?pt=AU_HeavyMachinery&hash=item27d7ebbbb6)

[.RC.]

Sadly the big VDF Gun Barrel lathes at Bendigo and Maribrynong (Ordnance ->ADI->Thales) have been disposed of along with the capability, although some of the skilled tradesmen are now putting wheels on military vehicles.....
OFB was built in 1942 in response to the fears shown in the original post. Some of the planned work dictated the size of the Heavy machine shop where rifled sleeves were replaced (shrunk) into existing Naval barrels as they wore. See attached pic of the 8" wire wound barrel and the Heat treatment section (circa 1943) where the barrel is being loaded into the 40' vertical furnace.
For those interested in barrel manufacture, the wire was about 1/8” square and up to 8 miles of it was wound on in layers to contain the huge pressures. Better than the original rope wound hoops on wooden Chinese barrels.
The 105mm Leopard tank barrels we made were hydraulically “Auto Frettaged” to create the same effect of “self hooping” by exceeding the elastic limit in the bore but not the OD. The 105mm Hamel barrels we made were swage auto frettaged at OFM using an oversized Tungsten Carbide slug pushed through the bore before rifling and machining at Bendigo.
One of the larger machines was an Innocenti Horizontal borer which can be seen in the attached pic of the foundations and machining a Ball mill half section. Other shots show the FFG Prop shaft made on the big lathe and machining a blade.

Thanks for the pictures and descriptions, most interesting...

I would say the prop is a bit bigger then you see on the average tinny... :D

[.RC.]

Google gave me this when searching for something...

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/61775635

5th December 1942

AUSTRALIA'S LARGEST LATHE
The largest and most elaborate machine tool to be made in Australia, a 38 Inch centre lathe to facilitate the machining of large components re
quired for ship engines, has }ust been completed In a Queensland workshop. The completion of this lathe, which has a distance of 50 feet between centres, marks Queensland as Ihe first State in the Commonwealth to assemble a machine tool of a size and type not previously undertaken by the engineering trade In this country. Over 90 separate contractors from States of the Commonwealth supplied the parts, ranging from small lubrication fittings to a 23-ton casting. This called for close co-ordinating and co-operation between all concerned. Altogether four lathes will be assembled in Queensland, and it is expected the second will be completed early In the new year. Though the design was taken from the British Craven lathe, the completed tool is larger. Its bed is In three sections, each 22 feet long by eight feet wide, and weighing 23 tons. The total weight of the finished lathe is 130 tons. The final tests received favourable comment from southern experts who watched them. Because of the man power shortage, about 75 per cent diluted labour was used on the manufacture of the lathe.

[chambezio]

I wonder if the other 3 were built? And probably more to the point where are they now? In this age of ditch our machines and buy the part ready made from somebody else, the scrappy may have made a shilling or two out of its demise

[bob ward]

Google gave me this when searching for something...

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/61775635

5th December 1942

AUSTRALIA'S LARGEST LATHE
The largest and most elaborate machine tool to be made in Australia.............
Because of the man power shortage, about 75 per cent diluted labour was used on the manufacture of the lathe.

That's an interesting phrase 'diluted labour', had to google the meaning, ie using trained non-tradesmen to do tradesman's work.

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=CYmwK6WEjvIC&pg=PA52&lpg=PA52&dq=diluted+labour&source=bl&ots=og363twSy6&sig=NbbzT-vfmZIJf019RNAyWYloyr8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eet0VbC7I4Xp8AWfz4LIDw&ved=0CCIQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=diluted%20labour&f=false

I have 100% diluted labour in my shed, except its not very well trained.

[Normanby]

Started a fitting & turning apprenticeship at Evans Deakin in Montague Road, South Brisbane in 1960. Came from a small country town with a couple of small engineering shops and a blacksmith place and had only seen small machine tools before. Was amazed when I first saw the large machine tools there plus a big blacksmith shop with furnaces and forges etc. Lathes there were still being used to turn prop and intermediate shafts for ships being built in EDs shipyard at Kangaroo Point.

Was a very unionised works which was all new to me. Most trades had their own union before amalgamations took place later on. There were the fitters & turners in the AEU, boilermakers and blacksmiths were still in separate societies as were coppersmiths, ironworkers, pattern makers, etc. Amongst these were some workers who were looked down on by some in the same union and referred to as "dilutees". I could not work out what the difference was but had it explained that these were workers who received much less training than an apprentice would when skilled workers were needed in the defence industries during WW2.

Some hard line unionists did not think their qualifications should be recognized after the war had finished so should not be considered tradesmen. I was told that the diluted trainees were required to join the union during the wartime so then had union membership rights afterwards. There was probably more to it than what I was told but I didn't pursue it further. I can recall many comments such as " he's just a dilutee", but in time things settled down as some people retired and the diluted trained tradesman all aged. Of course in 1960 it was only fifteen years since the end of WW2.

[pipeclay]

Even in the mid 70's that term was still quite common in NSW railways.

[.RC.]

Amongst these were some workers who were looked down on by some in the same union and referred to as "dilutees".

Sounds like they were pure bastards to me...

[snapatap]

Very interesting read. It would be great to see photos of some of the machines mentioned but i doubt any were ever taken. I did a search for the text referenced many times "the history of the directorate of machine tools and gauges" by CJ Pawson. but I cannot find it in either the national or SA library online catalogs. Maybe no copies have survived the passage of time. I think it would be an interesting read.

[.RC.]

There is at least one photo of it somewhere snapatap....

Some more info

21st July 1945 The Courier Mail

MONSTER LATHE BUILT AT IPSWICH



LARGEST lathe in the Southern Hemisphere was built at the Ipswich Railway Workshops.
A complete train was needed to transport the 135-ton monster, which four months later turned out eight-inch guns. Plans for the giant lathe were conceived in the gauge and tool making section, which has de- veloped since the workshops were placed on their own resources when the Japs entered the war. The staff responded to an Aus-
tralia-wide demand for gauges and tools which were then imported. Under the direction of the chief mechanical engineer (Mr. V. J. Hall), they rapidly established the industry on such a sound basis that before long industry through- out the Commonwealth sought their assistance. A certificate from the Marlbyr- nong Munitions Research Depart- ment showing that there was a degree of inaccuracy in construc- tion in one set of gauges of only 5,000,000th part of an inch was proudly displayed yesterday dur- ing an official inspection by the
Transport Minister (Mr. Walsh) and railway officials. Calculations in thousandths part of an inch are scorned by the staff, which has reached such a degree of perfection that 100,000ths are more frequently than not their most common topic of discussion. Mr. Hall said that the gauge and tool department was at the service of Queensland and Australian pri- vate and other industry. Already the Navy took its prob- lems almost exclusively to Ips- wich, and that section of private enterprise which was aware of its great facilities was constantly in- creasing its orders.

Tried to find a picture, about this is all I can come up with..

349507

[Techo1]

Google gave me this when searching for something...

Though the design was taken from the British Craven lathe, the completed tool is larger. Its bed is In three sections, each 22 feet long by eight feet wide, and weighing 23 tons. The total weight of the finished lathe is 130 tons. The final tests received favourable comment from southern experts who watched them. Because of the man power shortage, about 75 per cent diluted labour was used on the manufacture of the lathe.



I wonder if these machines were actually built "under licence" to Craven and displayed the Craven name or, as mentioned in the article, just based on the design.

There was a large Craven at the Commonwealth Marine Engine Works in Port Melbourne up until the plant closed in 1979. I have some poor quality photos of the machine that I will try to scan and post here.

[Michael G]

This might be of interest too.
349511

Michael

[snapatap]

After my last post i remembered i had a engineering magazine from about ww2 some time. After some searching of my engineering library I found it. It is September 7 1942 edition of The Australasian Engineer. I thought there may have been some references to some of the war effort machines that were made, but I think much of what was going on would have been kept secret at that time. When I have some time I will try to scan it and post it here. I think most of you would find it interesting.

[achjimmy]

There was a very large Craven lathe on cockatoo. Had a 5m face plate and driven from the tool post. I can't recall the legth but it was much longer than that photo above. It was post war I think 1949 rings a bell. It was dismantled with the vertical borer after the sales and the craven lathe went out to Smithfield and sat Unassembled for a few years . The vertical borer was sold to MD machinery and years later was sold up to FNQ.

i have photos somewhere I post when ever I find them.

the reason I recall was I with a couple of others disassembled the lathe :-)

[j.ashburn]

This might be of interest too.
349511

Michael

A good read amazing to see at the end where and what was made state wide and the survival of some companies here that have amalgamated .And some still in business today ,for how long who knows.The planning and preparedness outline o future hostilities
All we can do is hope that a major conflict will not catch us with our trousers down. Jap made subs !! God rest our deceased servicemen

[j.ashburn]

There is at least one photo of it somewhere snapatap....

Some more info

21st July 1945 The Courier Mail

MONSTER LATHE BUILT AT IPSWICH



LARGEST lathe in the Southern Hemisphere was built at the Ipswich Railway Workshops.
A complete train was needed to transport the 135-ton monster, which four months later turned out eight-inch guns. Plans for the giant lathe were conceived in the gauge and tool making section, which has de- veloped since the workshops were placed on their own resources when the Japs entered the war. The staff responded to an Aus-
tralia-wide demand for gauges and tools which were then imported. Under the direction of the chief mechanical engineer (Mr. V. J. Hall), they rapidly established the industry on such a sound basis that before long industry through- out the Commonwealth sought their assistance. A certificate from the Marlbyr- nong Munitions Research Depart- ment showing that there was a degree of inaccuracy in construc- tion in one set of gauges of only 5,000,000th part of an inch was proudly displayed yesterday dur- ing an official inspection by the
Transport Minister (Mr. Walsh) and railway officials. Calculations in thousandths part of an inch are scorned by the staff, which has reached such a degree of perfection that 100,000ths are more frequently than not their most common topic of discussion. Mr. Hall said that the gauge and tool department was at the service of Queensland and Australian pri- vate and other industry. Already the Navy took its prob- lems almost exclusively to Ips- wich, and that section of private enterprise which was aware of its great facilities was constantly in- creasing its orders.

Tried to find a picture, about this is all I can come up with..

349507

Curvature of earth considered in installation by mill rights

[PDW]

There was a very large Craven lathe on cockatoo. Had a 5m face plate and driven from the tool post. I can't recall the legth but it was much longer than that photo above. It was post war I think 1949 rings a bell. It was dismantled with the vertical borer after the sales and the craven lathe went out to Smithfield and sat Unassembled for a few years . The vertical borer was sold to MD machinery and years later was sold up to FNQ.

i have photos somewhere I post when ever I find them.

the reason I recall was I with a couple of others disassembled the lathe :-)

There's still a lot of big machinery on Cockatoo Island. I'm going there tomorrow to meet up with friends and go sailing.

PDW