Lorch LAS Lathe

[Brobdingnagian]

What do people know about Lorch LAS lathes? anyone got one? I ask because my brother recently purchased one, and he is waiting on a manual. It is not setup yet, as he still needs to make a stand and get a VFD for the motor. It came with a multi fix toolpost and holders, and a full set of collets. It gets a nice write up on lathes uk (http://www.lathes.co.uk/lorch/page6.html). His one has a broken lever for the backgear. Photo's soon.

-J

[Anorak Bob]

JG,

There was an old German bloke called Hans who ran a second hand book shop called Centaur Books over here. He closed shop about a decade ago which was a sad thing because he was a former instrument maker and I'd only just discovered my passion for this stuff. He had worked for the Department of Civil Aviation. I used to venture down to his shop across from the Maylands railway station and listen with fascination to stories of his earlier life. We talked about lathes and he talked about the Lorch he used. He held that lathe in the highest regard, second to none.

Your brother's LAS is only a whisker smaller than a Schaublin 65 but has a huge advantage, it can screw cut. I'm looking forward to some snap shots.

BT

[KBs PensNmore]

Hi, I just typed in the lathe model and it appears as though you can buy manuals, etc. for it from the UK.
Kryn

[Brobdingnagian]

JG,

There was an old German bloke called Hans who ran a second hand book shop called Centaur Books over here. He closed shop about a decade ago which was a sad thing because he was a former instrument maker and I'd only just discovered my passion for this stuff. He had worked for the Department of Civil Aviation. I used to venture down to his shop across from the Maylands railway station and listen with fascination to stories of his earlier life. We talked about lathes and he talked about the Lorch he used. He held that lathe in the highest regard, second to none.

Your brother's LAS is only a whisker smaller than a Schaublin 65 but has a huge advantage, it can screw cut. I'm looking forward to some snap shots.

BT

It looks like a real nice little lathe, I confess to talking him into this one after he passed on a nice Schaublin 102-80 VM because it was too big *sigh* but admittedly it would have been a real ordeal to get it into his workshop, and this little gem is perfect for the kinds of stuff he is making (robots). I missed out in seeing in person by a few days but he sent me a couple of teaser pics.



Hi, I just typed in the lathe model and it appears as though you can buy manuals, etc. for it from the UK.
Kryn

There was a manual that was supposed to go with it but was forgotten so it is being shipped to him.

Here are some pics and a video of the broken backgear lever (at least i think thats what it is?). It looks as though the cam is split?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4szClTDkZDg

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-Josh

[Brobdingnagian]

Here are some more pics of the Lorch.
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Here is what the problem was/is with the back gear lever; it turns out that it was a ball bearing on the end and it had fallen to bits, the cage was found and some other bits corroborate that story. So the repair is much simple that it might have been but the conundrum is how to get the inner bearing race off such a small shaft? any good ideas? ID of the bearing is ~4.5mm


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-Josh

PS He only has a very minimal tool kit atm.

[Anorak Bob]

A bitty armature bearing puller?
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Or maybe massage something like this to fit - Hudy Pinion Puller Slot Car 107000 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/HUDY-Pinion-Puller-Slot-Car-107000-/200933583144?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ec8932928)

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Or grind it off very carefully with a Dremel or the like.

Or you turn up and post Matthew a more robust sleeve that fits over the inner race and has 3 or 4 grub screws located radially to engage the ball groove then he uses a more readily available puller to remove the race and sleeve simultaneously.

BT

[jhovel]

How about heating the bearing ring up until it falls off or can be pulled off with a pair of pliers? Using a small hot pencil torch or small welding torch (even better) should make quick work of it and barely heat up the spindle. He could even keep the spindle cold with ice to increase the temperature difference and make it come off faster.

[Anorak Bob]

How about heating the bearing ring up until it falls off or can be pulled off with a pair of pliers? Using a small hot pencil torch or small welding torch (even better) should make quick work of it and barely heat up the spindle. He could even keep the spindle cold with ice to increase the temperature difference and make it come off faster.

Bit easier than my convoluted suggestion and a bit cheaper than an armature puller:doh:

[Brobdingnagian]

Thankyou Joe/Bob, I think you're right heat will probably be the first port of call, as I know he has access to a small blow torch used for soldering, I think that will work, if not then it is on to the armature pullers (thanks Bob i could not remember what that style of puller was called) . A small puller would not go to waste though, I think he would get a worthwhile amount of use out of it.

-J

[nearnexus]

I would clamp the main thick shaft in some wooden blocks in a vice - to avoid marking it, and then use a small cold chisel on the bearing race groove to knock it off.

As previously said, it would pay to grind a couple of facets on opposing sides to reduce metal thickness and weaken it.

Being a cast steel bearing race you can actually use a cold chisel to split/shatter it, but you may feel a bit nervous about that :)

You can actually get a screw up nut splitter which would probably crack it as well.

Cheers

Rob

[Stustoys]

How about a strip of Alum and an small pair of vicegrips/slide hammer. With some heat in case there is some locking compound. It wouldnt be a super tight fit would it?

Ok something just dawned on me.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f65/288464d1381100758-lorch-las-lathe-img_1044.jpg

I've seen these collets before. (ring collets or thin work collets or some such)
The top row are fine, they work like any other collet.
How does the second row work?

Stuart

[Brobdingnagian]

Not pulling it apart myself, I just had a thought; how do would you press a bearing back on when it is assembled. Looking at the video again the outer race of the bearing is split, I'm wondering if that is so that it can be assembled and disassembled?

[Ueee]

I had a similar problem the other day, the top bearing on the coolant pump for the Antrac. In trying to get it off i ended up breaking the already damaged bearing (608 ZZ IIRC) and it fell to bits. I just used my big (60 or 80w) soldering iron to heat the inner race up and it almost fell off with the help of some pliers.

I take it once the bearing is on Josh it will not fit through the hole?

Ew

[Brobdingnagian]

I had a similar problem the other day, the top bearing on the coolant pump for the Antrac. In trying to get it off i ended up breaking the already damaged bearing (608 ZZ IIRC) and it fell to bits. I just used my big (60 or 80w) soldering iron to heat the inner race up and it almost fell off with the help of some pliers.

I take it once the bearing is on Josh it will not fit through the hole?

Ew

yeap.

[nearnexus]

yeap.

Looks like the spindle has to come out and the bearing pressed on in situ.

Just use a big "G" clamp

Rob

[Stustoys]

Are we sure its not just held on with locking compound?
Its not like it could go far even if it was loose.(though granted that would be a little rough ;) )

Stuart

[Brobdingnagian]

Are we sure its not just held on with locking compound?
Its not like it could go far even if it was loose.(though granted that would be a little rough ;) )

Stuart

Maybe it is, it seem to be on there pretty solid, but I would guess at a press fit, being high end german product.


How about a strip of Alum and an small pair of vice grips/slide hammer. With some heat in case there is some locking compound. It wouldnt be a super tight fit would it?

Ok something just dawned on me.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f65/288464d1381100758-lorch-las-lathe-img_1044.jpg

I've seen these collets before. (ring collets or thin work collets or some such)
The top row are fine, they work like any other collet.
How does the second row work?

Stuart

No idea, as you would lose some working length each step down?


Looks like the spindle has to come out and the bearing pressed on in situ.

Just use a big "G" clamp

Rob

Damn!, my thoughts exactly, I was hoping for anther take on the situation.

[Stustoys]

Well yes a press fit, but there are press fits and then there are PRESS fits lol


No idea, as you would lose some working length each step down?

What I was thinking was. They have to be for holding the inside of something right? So that would mean the collet needed to move out to clamp the work, unlike "normal" collets that move in to clamp. So how does tightening the draw bar move a collet out?

Ok I've done some googling, they seem to be call ring or step chucks.
Looking at this picture it would seem there must be either second part or use the spindle nose to supply the external taper to "open" the collect to close it ;)

Stuart

[Ueee]

I would imagine they work like a small hole gauge, the threads are continued onto a shaft that flares out at the end. When the db is tightened up it pulls the collet into the seat and then starts to draw the flared bit into a matching taper expanding the rings......could be way off though!
Ew

[Brobdingnagian]

Well yes a press fit, but there are press fits and then there are PRESS fits lol


What I was thinking was. They have to be for holding the inside of something right? So that would mean the collet needed to move out to clamp the work, unlike "normal" collets that move in to clamp. So how does tightening the draw bar move a collet out?

Ok I've done some googling, they seem to be call ring or step chucks.
Looking at this picture it would seem there must be either second part or use the spindle nose to supply the external taper to "open" the collect to close it ;)

Stuart

Ok i google for "step chuck" and one of the top results i get is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T9FVgM1tn8

lols, thanks stuart.

[Brobdingnagian]

For those people that are interested here is current listing for a Lorch LAS atm (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lorch-LAS-65mm-x-285mm-Precision-Screwcutting-Lathe-Complete-Circa-1966-/190929468011). I'm sure the seller won't mind if I post their photos here. This one seem much more complete than my brothers but it also more than he paid. But it is nice to see one with most of the accessories for comparison.


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[Michael G]

We have a Weiler at work with these step chucks (funnily enough, I had to tell the fitters how they were used - don't seem to cover much of this manual milling stuff in trades school any more)
The hollow ones work like a normal 5C but the external ones have a conical sleeve that they pull against that spreads the cone. I can get a photo tomorrow if there is interest.

Michael

[Brobdingnagian]

We have a Weiler at work with these step chucks (funnily enough, I had to tell the fitters how they were used - don't seem to cover much of this manual milling stuff in trades school any more)
The hollow ones work like a normal 5C but the external ones have a conical sleeve that they pull against that spreads the cone. I can get a photo tomorrow if there is interest.

Michael

Please do if its not too much trouble

-Josh

[Brobdingnagian]

For those people that are interested here is current listing for a Lorch LAS atm (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lorch-LAS-65mm-x-285mm-Precision-Screwcutting-Lathe-Complete-Circa-1966-/190929468011). I'm sure the seller won't mind if I post their photos here. This one seem much more complete than my brothers but it also more than he paid. But it is nice to see one with most of the accessories for comparison.




I guess someone offered enough, I thought it might have stayed up on ebay a little longer.

Heat and a pair of vice grips won the day, thanks guys.

-Josh

[lightwood]

Please do if its not too much trouble

-Josh
Josh,
probably the same principle as my 6 & 8mm watch lathes... (http://www.petermcbride.com/collection/lorch_lathe.jpg)
Draw-bar pulls them over a taper, and opens them up.
I use this one often, especially to make bevelled wedding rings (like the platinum one from last week, in the 3rd picture below)
Regards,
Peter
http://www.petermcbride.com/temp/images/lorch_step.jpg

http://www.petermcbride.com/collection/lathe1.jpghttp://www.petermcbride.com/temp/images/damienmc03.jpg

[Michael G]

Peter got there first, but 289750289751289752

[Stustoys]

Thank you gentleman.

Stuart

They need a "thank you" thingy like the "like" thingy.