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DaveInOz
14th January 2003, 05:40 PM
Hi I'm Dave, been lurking awhile so I thought I'd introduce myself and ask a question.

Entry level dust extraction?
I've just started seriously making projects in my shed (1.5 car). I have a triton that I use as a rip saw and router table, *pauses while the laughter subsides*, a combo miter saw, and the usual jig saw, sanders, etc.
The router set up and teh combo saw have dust extraction points that look set up for a vacum hose.
The sawdust gets an inch thich on the floor by the time I've finished my cutting list, and everything in the shed is covered in dust.
So what do I do? I had thought old recon vac at $150 with some sort of collection bin (triton?). Are there other options?
What is the best way to set up a system that is easy to use, is cheap (relativly), and not over the top?

So in short I want to know everything. Not asking too much for a first timer, eh http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/wink.gif

Looking forward to true enlightenment and thanking you in advance ...
Dave

Dean
14th January 2003, 07:23 PM
I'd say for the router table, the triton dust collection bucket and a small vacuum cleaner will take care of that dust problem.

Compund miter saw...dust on these are extremely hard to contain. There is no foolproof system (under a small fortune that is)

Never underestimate the power of solid material covers for your tools http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

My other half has made dust covers for several of my tools and benches. I always keep them covered except when in use. When it comes to cleaning up my floor, out comes the $99 blower/vac and it's done in no time.

My compressor with small long-nozzled air gun works wonders for cleaning out sawdust from all my tool's hard to reach places http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

Dean
14th January 2003, 07:24 PM
The more expensive path of course is a 1-2HP dust extractor and a ton of attachments and hoses...It is definitely the best method, but also costs the most as well.

Dean

DarrylF
14th January 2003, 07:51 PM
Welcome Dave. I won't have a chuckle at your Triton http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

You can buy a basic 1hp dust extractor for under $300 these days - definitely the best option. Try Carbatec and the general tool outfits. You can usually pick up a deal with a couple of metres of hose etc included.

A dust extractor is not really best suited to hand held tool extraction, but then nothing really does that job well short of a $1,000 Festo setup. A dust extractor is, however, the best all round option.

The Triton dust bucket is useless - except of course as a bucket, but it's a bloody expensive one http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif It blocks in no time flat and the vacuum cleaner is seriously noisy.

The top end for a home shop is what I just bought IMHO - Jet 2HP with cartridge filter for a little under $1,000.

John G
14th January 2003, 10:17 PM
Dave,
I don't have any extraction equipment yet, but have been planning and researching in these pages for a while. I think below is a good summary of my current thinking:
- you should be able to get a 1hp extractor for $199. Timbecon had one in their xmas catalogue.
- according to the experts in these pages, a 1hp extractor will outperform any household vacuum (and be quieter)
- so rather than spending $150 on a vac, spend an extra $50 and get a proper extractor. 4" pvc piping is the cheapest ducting material.
- the downside is the size and ducting (my problem). If you have a dedicated shed/garage and can run ducting, then go for that. If, like me, your workshop is less than adequate, then ducting just isn't practical.
- many people just attach a flexible hose to the ducting to vacuum the shop and connect to sanders etc.
- I had heard good things about the triton dust bucket, so am surprised by Darryl's comment. Not that I have used one.
- given the small price difference, I wouldn't buy a vac unless I could find one for less than $50 in the trading post. This is what I am currently looking for.
John.

[This message has been edited by John G (edited 14 January 2003).]

Dean
14th January 2003, 11:33 PM
>>>The Triton dust bucket is useless - except of course as a bucket, but it's a bloody expensive one It blocks in no time flat and the vacuum cleaner is seriously noisy.

Never had a problem, but like any system including a filter, you need to blast the filter now and then with some compressed air to keep it in good shape.

DarrylF
15th January 2003, 05:53 AM
The problem as I see it with the Triton bucket is the filter area - compared with anything else (including a household vac), it's extremely small. It's simply a flat filter less than the diameter of the bucket.

I'm sure if you use it to pick up shavings it would work fine for a reasonable time. If, like me, you tend to use it to pick up the small stuff - fine sawdust around the CMS, grinder dust, MDF dust etc then it does block quickly. My dust extractor does all the bulk work. The symptom of course is the vacuum cleaner working harder and making more & more noise.

It still has a place in my workshop, but only until I spring for a decent industrial vac.

Eastie
15th January 2003, 09:25 AM
Don’t fool yourself into the cheaper path of a vacuum and dust bucket, they might seem a cheap solution but if you can afford the extra outlay you will reap the benefits.

Other than a couple of specialty systems vacs just don’t move enough air for use on woodworking machinery.

A general rule of thumb that is applied to dust capture and extraction for woodworking machines is 15 cubic metres of air per minute per machine, or around 500 cubic feet in the old scale.

I tried the dust bucket and vacuum a while ago on a site where it was not practical to take the dust extractor. After half a days work I gave up on the bucket. It wouldn’t sit upright, it clogged in no time, and not being a cyclone design it is useless without the filter. It would be good at capturing shavings but if dust is involved it simply does not perform well.

A dust extractor with flexible ducting is a good option. That way if the filter is only 5-10 micron filter you can put it outside the shed, reducing fine dust and noise.

DaveInOz
15th January 2003, 10:22 AM
Ooookayyyy ....

Sorry guys, I still feel way out of my depth.
How do you organise the ducting so it only extracts from the machine your working on?
Can you fit a vacum hose to the dust extractor to get the stuff from the rip saw?
Is 4" the go, wouldn't smaller cause better air flow/suction?

:lol
I have a 3.5 yo son - every time you answer a question you generate 3 more .... sound familiar http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Neal
15th January 2003, 10:53 PM
Dave i use 1hp jet extracter on triton table under my table is built in, also dust bag is used,to get table top dust i have flex pipe into 4in pipe hanging straight down above sawblade gaurd and then cut a slot into a 5 or 6in to 4in reducer which in turn fits over the gaurd & into the 4in pipe works really well.When i purchased extracter was told not to reduce 4in pipe down to far because extracters use sheer volumn of air where vacs use speed ( try a 4in hose on a vac wont be real flash).The bucket is ok but does fall over, vac is noisy & filter clogs quickly.
Neal

[This message has been edited by Neal (edited 15 January 2003).]

John G
16th January 2003, 12:11 AM
I'm not the expert, but here I go:
- you direct ducting by using blast gates. These cut off air supply in different tubes. If this doesn't make sense look in a good h/w shop or catalogue
- you can fit lower diamater flex hose to the top guard of the triton, but don't use this as the only extraction point.
- the speed of the air is not important, it is the volume of air. 4" works great (and doesn't clog) but only if the volume is decent. Hence 4" on a vacuum doesn't work.

There is a whole topic on extraction just last month, as well as many other older ones. They go into heaps of detail.

soundman
16th January 2003, 12:32 AM
As discussed in previous threads you need to understand these two points.

1. small hand held tools like sanders routers & the like require high presure relatively low volume extraction as provided by vacume cleaners.

2. big tools like real saw benches, stationery planers, spindle moulders need high volume relativel low presure extraction as delivered by the larger dust extractors.

I use an industrial vacume with a bucket from an imbuilt vac system for all my small tools and have larger extractors for the biger machines.
See easties dust survey thread.

Many years ago I was getting very good extraction from my triton by fitting a vacume cleaner connection to the chip spout of the saw made of 32MM conduit & covering the open face of the blade guard with a carefilly engineered piece of card board held in place with gaffa tape.

a few thing to remember

keep all hoses as short a practical as they represent heavy suction losses.

Filter area is the single most important thing in a vacume cleaner, if the filter blocks nothing no matter how powerfull will suck thru it.


the dust box between the vac and the source doesn't need to be any thing flash but the bigger the better and tthe more filter area the better.

A cyclonic action in this area will present significant suction losses & isn't worth while.

32 mm electrical conduit slips inside most domestic vac hose & is usefull for making adaptors & fittings.


cheers check out old threads on this subject.

John Saxton
16th January 2003, 02:15 AM
G'Day Dave,One factor in this thread that has been overlooked is your health.
Yeah I know this has all been said before but consider your life expectancy combined with your obvious love of your woodworking as well as your family.
"What if" is a statement that stands the test of time and that is what you may well say later on with regards to your health shortcomings that may occur.

Forgive me for rattling on but I speak from some experience and my own ignorance when I too broached this poser initially.
On-going Medication is an expense you don't need if you can of course avoid it.
Do your research and with the financial constraints in your budget,try to buy the best you can afford...set it up right and you'll not have to worry.
A 1hp mobile unit will certainly get you going along the right track but will be limiting...which may be overcome with a blast gate and a smaller take-off for your hand machines etc,and may well suit your small area that you have to work in.Going any bigger at this stage is going to confine your working area.
Look at the cfm(capacity)of your total required machine usage to ensure you get what you want to do the task set for your suction needs.
Cheers http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif
------------------
Johnno

[This message has been edited by John Saxton (edited 16 January 2003).]

DaveInOz
16th January 2003, 08:53 AM
Thanks all for your advice. http://ubb.ubeaut.com.au/ubb/smile.gif

I'm off to search the archives