Three problems in one post

[keith53]

Hello all,

1. Having just finished a rather smick silky oak candle stick ( designed by the general manager) I'd like to apply a couple of coats of sanding sealer and then a high gloss. Am I better to:

a. Do this with the piece in the lathe whilst stationery?
b. Do this with the piece in the lathe moving slowly?
c. Remove from the lathe and do by hand?


2. Should I:

a. Spray? (spray gun or air brush)
b. Use a brush?


3. This isn't the last piece though. She wants two of them so I need to make a template so that I can replicate my masterpiece. Some advice on how to copy a piece to transfer on to cardboard/thin ply would be appreciated.

I'm a bit chuffed with this thing. Its the first time the bl**dy skew hasn't stuffed something up on me - principally because I left it in the tool rack and improvised a bit more with the two nifty P & N gouges recently purchased at the Brisbane Wood show. Something else worth remembering - this piece has earned me almost (but not quite) as many brownie points as a bunch of flowers...

I'm even thinking of entering it in the candlestick-of-the-year competition....

[CHJ]

...snip...
3. This isn't the last piece though. She wants two of them so I need to make a template so that I can replicate my masterpiece. Some advice on how to copy a piece to transfer on to cardboard/thin ply would be appreciated.....snip.....If it will fit put it on the Photo Copier, if it is a good make you should get a One to One Image you can cut round.

[PAH1]

The finish bit is relatively easy, EEE ultrashine followed by Shellawax, simple fast and environmentally friendly. I usually sand to 400 grit under power and then do the EEE thing then the shellawax under power-5min tops.

[keith53]

Thanks for this,


The finish bit is relatively easy, EEE ultrashine followed by Shellawax, simple fast and environmentally friendly. I usually sand to 400 grit under power and then do the EEE thing then the shellawax under power-5min tops.
So the ultrashine acts like a sanding sealer?

And the shellawax is like a polish?

Cheers,
Keith

[PAH1]

Thanks for this,


So the ultrashine acts like a sanding sealer?

And the shellawax is like a polish?

Cheers,
Keith

The ultrashine is an ultrafine abrasive that I think is one of the greatest inventions ever, the shellawax is a shellac based finish that burns into the surface and gives a high shine without making the surface feel like plastic.

[bitingmidge]

Keith,

When we catch up I'll give you a demo!! Gotta do my bit to keep Neil in business..... :D :D :D

Cheers,

P

[gatiep]

Thanks for this,


So the ultrashine acts like a sanding sealer?

And the shellawax is like a polish?

Cheers,
KeithKeith you've almost got it right: Shellawax is the only polish! Used with EEE it is even bettererder, if that is possible!;)
No selfrespecting woodturner should be without it and some Hamlet tools............rather go without a lathe. :eek:

[rsser]

Depends on what you have on hand.

And Silky oak varies a good deal in terms of grain coarseness.

If your piece is coarse or open-grained like real oak then I'd recommended ubeaut's Shithot waxstick on its own.

If it's medium to fine, sanding sealer will do a good job with just some paste wax over the top. The first applied on the lathe slowly with a brush, the second applied on the lathe slowly with a pad but then buffed with a flannel rag at medium speed.

If it's pale coloured, some nitro-cellulose sanding sealer is a better option than the shellac-based stuff.

[keith53]

Depends on what you have on hand.

And Silky oak varies a good deal in terms of grain coarseness.


This piece has a fairly open grain. I tend to sand 80 / 120 / 240 / 400 / 600 /1200 but it still has a little patch that's a bit "furry" so I thought a filler would be the go.

Really appreciate your comments Ern...

[rsser]

Pleasure Keith.

If you love these pieces, I'd go for the Waxstick (only about $12 from ubeaut, plus postage) but I'd also put this query up on the finishing forum to see if you can hook Neil into the discussion.

I did a platter out of Silky Oak with a faily open grain - sanding sealer and paste wax - and it came up pretty ordinary. Not what I'd wanted after all that work.

SS is not that good a grain filler. An alternative is an oil-based finish (eg. Danish oil) and follow the instructions to wet sand to produce a grain-filling slurry. Then paste-wax for a higher gloss. Downside is that oil darkens the timber.

[PAH1]

Organoil High speed works well on Silky, as does the shellawax. I think open grain is the definition of silky, a trap is winding up with sanding marks in the rays, EEE gets them out and stops excessive take up of the finish in those areas as well.

[rsser]

Yeah Pah1. I like Organoil but find it raises the grain several weeks after you think you've finished with a piece.

Silky Oak covers a multitude of sins; about 12 species in one reference I looked at. And colours from cream to deep pinky brown. So it's horses for courses.

Edit: Keith, on reflection, maybe all you need is a sanding sealer with a final fine sand to cut the raised grain. Then wax or whatever you want for the final finish. Not sure how glossy you want your end result to be; if very high, Rustin's plastic, but most turners don't like the way that high gloss obscures the grain of the timber.

[PAH1]

Yeah Pah1. I like Organoil but find it raises the grain several weeks after you think you've finished with a piece.



I have heard that but not have it happen. I have had it dull off on some pieces, but I put it back on the lathe and do another wet sand and it does not do it again.

I just refer to silky oak as being G. robusta, it is the tree that I have referred to as silky oak all my life and I do not see that changing. Cardwellia is cardwellia, have not heard of others but that is why I hate common names.

[rsser]

Yeah, common names!

Think the ref. was Bootle.

[JackoH]

Keith. Nobody seems to have directly answered your queries. So here goes:-
Using sanding sealer:
a. Do this with the piece in the lathe whilst stationery?-Yes

b. Do this with the piece in the lathe moving slowly? -Wipe off the excess andfinish with lathe turning quickly.

c. Remove from the lathe and do by hand? -No.


2. Should I:

a. Spray? (spray gun or air brush) - No :eek: , You can avoid a. b. & c. Just apply EEE and polish with lathe turning fast to generate some heat. Repeat process with Shellawax.If you use oil such as Danish go through the same process, eg. Apply - wipe of surplus after allowing a few minutes for it to soak in. Polish at high speed. You will need to go through the procedure several times 'til you achieve the desired lustre.
b. Use a brush?-No :eek:


Buy a copy of The Polioshers Handbook. Written by our esteemed Neil. All the secrets of achieving a good finish will be revealed :cool

[soundman]

53 mate you gota get onto some of neils stuff.
The speed & finish that you get from shelawax is just gob smacking.
I'm a new lathe owner & have had a little play with some shelawax & one word comes to mind "ooooooooh".
If this is an indicator of the effect of neils products I can see why people buy it buy the bucket (he will sell you a bucket).
Drop neil an email or give him a ring. Tell him to set you up with a starter kit of goodies.
Her indoors will think you are god.
check out the u beaut link at the bottom of the page.
cheers

[Cliff Rogers]

...Silky Oak covers a multitude of sins; about 12 species in one reference I looked at. .....
Silky Oak Cardwellia sublimus NPQ
Silky Oak Darlingia darlingiana NAT
Silky Oak Darlingia ferruginea NAT
Silky Oak Darlingia spectatissima MPA
Silky Oak Gevuina bleasdalei ARF
Silky Oak Grevillea hilliana BWG
Silky Oak Grevillea robusta NSQ
Silky Oak Helicia lamingtoniana NAT
Silky Oak Lomatia fraxinifolia ARF
Silky Oak Macadamia whelanii NAT
Silky Oak Orites excelsa ARF
Silky Oak Turrillia bleasdalei BWG

http://www.vwa.org.au/list_ta_abc.htm

[rsser]

Nice one Cliff!

Not to mention:

Red Silky Oak Carnarvonia araliifolia NAT
Red Silky Oak Grevillea banksii GWT
Red Silky Oak Oreocallis pinnata NRT
Red Silky Oak Oreocallis wickhamii BWG
Red Silky Oak Stenocarpus salignus WIA


Soundman, I've not had good results with Shellawax on coarse or open-grained timber. At one stage I used it on everything I turned but don't any more. If Keith's pieces are somewhat open-grained and he's looking for a gloss finish something else will be needed.

[keith53]

Many thanks to all of you for your comments and yes, Neil will be hearing from me shortly.

I went around to bitingmidge's place yesterday (thanks Peter) and had a first hand demo. Nice workshop by the way...

Ern's comments were spot on - 5 minutes is all it takes - amazing. Here was I thinking I'd be spending hours and hours waiting for coats of sanding sealer to dry etc.

I'll put up a pikky when I get them finished...:)

[keith53]

Ern,

I'm going to try the EEE & shellawax first because I really like the finish and I expect Madam will as well. It has a nice shine without looking like plasic and she doesn't like finishes that look sort of artificial. If it isn't what I expect, I can always sand back and start again with something else..

[rsser]

Cool. Whatever works.

(btw: the comment about 5 mins was PAH1's).

[barnsey]

I'm with every one else - EEE and shellawax - I use the creme.

The various oils are okay if thats the finish you want, a burnished duller finish but the ubeaut gear gives a remarkable shine and is able to be reworked down the track if you want to.

Jamie

[rsser]

The various oils are okay if thats the finish you want, a burnished duller finish but the ubeaut gear gives a remarkable shine and is able to be reworked down the track if you want to.


You can use oils in various ways to get different levels of lustre.

They can be burnished or not, buffed or not, cut with EEE or not, and have wax over the top or not.

Given my taste, they improve the grain contrast in medium to dark timbers, but depending on the timber and the effect you want, usually darken light timbers too much.

That said, I use mainly Danish oil which is a mix of oil and varnish.

[Cliff Rogers]

Beef Silky Oak Grevillea striata NAT
Black Silky Oak Stenocarpus reticulatus NAT
Black-leaved Silky Oak Lomatia fraxinifolia BWG
Blush Silky Oak Bleasdalea bleasdalei NAT
Blush Silky Oak Opisthiolepis heterophylla NAT
Blush Silky Oak Turrillia bleasdalei BWG
Briar Silky Oak Musgravea heterophylla NAT
Briar Silky Oak Musgravea stenostachya NAT
Brown Silky Oak Darlingia darlingiana WIA
Brown Silky Oak Darlingia ferruginea ARF
Brown Silky Oak Musgravea heterophylla ARF
Brown Silky Oak Opisthiolepis heterophylla NAT
Buckinghamia Silky Oak Buckinghamia celsissima MPA
Buff Silky Oak Sphalmium racemosum NAT
Caledonian Silky Oak Carnarvonia araliifolia NAT
Crater Silky Oak Musgravea stenostachya WIA
Cream Silky Oak Athertonia diversifolia GWB
Cream Silky Oak Helicia diversifolia NAT
Darwin Silky Oak Grevillea pteridiifolia BWG
Dwarf Silky Oak Grevillea banksii GWT
Ferny-leaved Silky Oak Grevillea pteridiifolia NAT
Findlay's Silky Oak Grevillea baileyana BWG
Findlay's Silky Oak Grevillea pinnatifida NAT
Fishtail Silky Oak Neorites kevediana WIA
Grey Silky Oak Musgravea stenostachya NAT
Hill's Silky Oak Grevillea hilliana NAT
Lamington's Silky Oak Helicia lamingtoniana NAT
Lomatia Silky Oak Lomatia fraxinifolia NAT
Mountain Silky Oak Orites excelsa WIA
Mueller's Silky Oak Austromuellera trinervia NAT
Northern Silky Beech Citronella smythii MPA
Northern Silky Oak Cardwellia sublimis WIA
Norton's Silky Oak Helicia nortoniana BWG
Pear Silky Oak Xylomelum pyriforme NAT
Pear Silky Oak Xylomelum scottianum NAT
Pink Silky Oak Opisthiolepis heterophylla NAT
Pink Silky Oak Oreocallis pinnata NRT
Pink Silky Oak Oreocallis wickhamii ARF
Red Silky Oak Carnarvonia araliifolia NAT
Red Silky Oak Grevillea banksii GWT
Red Silky Oak Oreocallis pinnata NRT
Red Silky Oak Oreocallis wickhamii BWG
Red Silky Oak Stenocarpus salignus WIA
Red-flowered Silky Oak Grevillea banksii BWG
Rose Silky Oak Darlingia darlingiana NAT
Rose Silky Oak Darlingia ferruginea EA3
Rose Silky Oak Opisthiolepis heterophylla MPA
Rose Silky Oak Placospermum coriacem NPQ
Satin Silky Oak Macadamia sp.aff.hilderbrandii QUT
Satin Silky Oak Oreocallis wickhamii NAT
Satin Silky Oak Sphalmium racemosum QUT
Sayer's Silky Oak Hollandaea sayerana BWG
Silky Oak Cardwellia sublimus NPQ
Silky Oak Darlingia darlingiana NAT
Silky Oak Darlingia ferruginea NAT
Silky Oak Darlingia spectatissima MPA
Silky Oak Gevuina bleasdalei ARF
Silky Oak Grevillea hilliana BWG
Silky Oak Grevillea robusta NSQ
Silky Oak Helicia lamingtoniana NAT
Silky Oak Lomatia fraxinifolia ARF
Silky Oak Macadamia whelanii NAT
Silky Oak Orites excelsa ARF
Silky Oak Turrillia bleasdalei BWG
Spotted Silky Oak Buckinghamia celsissima WIA
Stream Silky Oak Opisthiolepis heterophylla BWG
Southern Silky Oak Grevillea robusta WIA
Southern Silky Oak Orites excelsa NAT
Waratah Silky Oak Oreocallis pinnata NAT
Whelan's Silky Oak Macadamia whelanii NAT
White Silky Oak Grevillea hilliana NRT
White Silky Oak Stenocarpus sinuatus NTA

[PAH1]

You missed one cliff

Dorrigo silky oak Oreocallis pinnata. Although I have only come accross one person who referred to it as such and limited backup on the web.

[rsser]

Botanicus pissus competition ;-}

[Cliff Rogers]

You missed one cliff......
Nope.... that's Dorrigo Oak Oreocallis pinnata NAT. ;)

[JackoH]

Cliff, What do you do in your spare time? :(

[Cliff Rogers]

Trivia is easy with google & broardband. :D