How hard do I hit that?

[Old Hutcho]

Well my little mill arrived today. It had a Herless sticker on it and under that it had a McMillan sticker. Model MD-20. 1 HP motor. Tidy little machine and so far I am happy with my purchase. When it arrived it had a collet chuck affixed, and what I am supposing to be a drawbar sticking out of the top of the spindle. I took the nut off the spindle and gave it a short sharp tap. Nothing. I am not game to give it the big one fearing I can damage the machine or alter its accuracy in some way. Question is, 1: Is it a drawbar sticking out of the top of the spindle? 2: Can I put a lock nut on it and unscrew it? 3: How do I get the bloody collet chuck out then? I do have some really nice BIG hammers if I need them.

Is anybody prepared to say that its a Rong Fu RF20?

rehards

Old Hutcho

[tanii51]

ive got an rf 25 which i reckon is very similar piccies of what you think is the draw bar might help i use a reasonably hefty copper faced hammer to free the Collette chuck

[azzrock]

hi mate im not familiar with your mill but most the ones ive used.
you lock or hold the spindle at nor near the collet chuck. and then
loosen the draw bat and hit the top of the draw bar.
aaron

[Stustoys]

Hi,
You got any other tooling that will let you know what sort of taper you have in the spindle?

pictures!

Stuart

[RayG]

Hi Hutch,

Generally you don't take the draw bar nut off completely, just back it off a 1/2 turn and give it a decent whack with a soft faced hammer, nylon or whatever.

Regards
Ray

[Dingo Dog]

What Ray said Hutch, you also need to hold the spindle before undoing the nut, I use a 19 mm ring spanner on mine. Removing the collet chuck requires you to lock the spindle, do that my winding down the fine feed handle, poke a piece of 5mm flat bar cut at an angle into the slot on the spindle, hold, undo the nut, give it a whack with a soft mallet while hanging onto the chuck. Sorry for not using correct terminology on the parts, its late, have a bad headache.

Happy milling.

DD

[Ben Dono]

How hard you hit it is difficult to describe on a forum! I over tightened my draw bar once and it took a good damn thump on the draw bar to get it out! I didn't like doing that but the mill was fine. Their is a limit to what it will take. Now I'm much more careful when I install a taper and draw bar. I keep the socket and taper dry and clean and it's a very gentle 1/8 to 1/4 turn with the spanner after the draw bar bottoms out. I have not had it work loose on me yet even with some chatter while milling.

On a side note and I'm sure I'm going to get chewed out for this but I find I need a quick tap when I use a steel hammer and a good thump when I use a soft face tool to break the tool free. I find the short and sharp tap to be less worrying. I can change/make a draw bar much easier than I can replace bearings. My draw bar still looks new with 2 yrs use.

On a side note, could you spray a bit of WD40 down the top of the spindle and let it sit over night.. Maybe it has a bit of that packing wax/grease dried on.

[Ueee]

I'd take a guess and say its a Morse taper machine. I agree with Ben, a short sharp rap is far better IMHO than belting with a soft hammer. Copper is probably the best choice, with both the nt40 and nt30 machines I have had I have just used the spanner on its edge. Nt is a self releasing taper though and Morse is not.

I have not forgotten about those gears Hutcho, I hope to get them in the mail tomorrow or Sat.

Cheers,
Ew

[RayG]

Hi Hutcho,

Can you take a picture of the top of the spindle? If it has a draw bar, you should be looking at the top of a bolt that goes through to the collet and pulls the arbor up against a taper.

If you undid just a nut from the top of the spindle, I'm starting to think it's not a draw bar... Is there a hole in the middle?

If it hasn't got a draw bar, I wouldn't go whacking it with a steel hammer, you might damage the spindle bearings..

Regards
Ray

Pictures!!!

[12bolts]

Hi Hutcho,
I always back up my spindle with something solid before whacking it with a hammer.
296097

Just crank the table up till it pushes on the bottom of the quill and bash away :)

ps is that your lathe on ebay?

Cheers Phil

[pipeclay]

If it has a nut on the top of the spindle it would appear that it is more than likely a home made draw bar,either a piece of threaded rod or maybe a piece of rod with threads at both ends.

If the nut has come all the way off you would be advised to replace it until the thread is flush with the end of the nut or just slightly under the end,if possible it would be good if you could install 2 nuts and lock them together.

If by some chance it is a piece of threaded rod and it extends well past the end of the spindle make sure that the nut or nuts screw down until they are about 3mm above the top of the spindle,then if possible place a piece of pipe or similar over the end of the rod and let it rest on the nuts,then hit the end of the pipe.

If you only hit the end of the threaded rod you run the chance of bending the end of the rod.

In normal practice the draw bar would be more than likely high tensile bar threaded to suit the tooling thread with a nut/hex on the outer end.

[Old Hutcho]

First things first. Phil, no its not my lathe on e bay.

Secondly, its a MT3 . And I will bet my first born its a Rong Fu. I downloaded a manual for one and I reckon thats what it is.

Thirdly, The drawbar is a home made jobbie with a threaded rod going the job all the way down the centre of the spindle into the top of the collet chuck. I can see it though a slot in the spindle. Its definitely a drawbar.

Fourthly. Thanks Ewen. I am in no rush mate. It is closing Christmas after all.

Fifthly, I will try supporting the quill and then going at it with something that I can machine up with a flat shoulder to sit inside the threaded hole in the chuck.

And lastly. This afternoon while running the machine I heard a loud pop, the safety switch on the house dropped out and I had smoke from the housing for the electrolytic capacitor. Electrician mate of mine popped in and I am now aiting for a new capacitor. Bit of a shock but there it is.

regards to all for the advice

Old Hutcho




If it has a nut on the top of the spindle it would appear that it is more than likely a home made draw bar,either a piece of threaded rod or maybe a piece of rod with threads at both ends.

If the nut has come all the way off you would be advised to replace it until the thread is flush with the end of the nut or just slightly under the end,if possible it would be good if you could install 2 nuts and lock them together.

If by some chance it is a piece of threaded rod and it extends well past the end of the spindle make sure that the nut or nuts screw down until they are about 3mm above the top of the spindle,then if possible place a piece of pipe or similar over the end of the rod and let it rest on the nuts,then hit the end of the pipe.

If you only hit the end of the threaded rod you run the chance of bending the end of the rod.

In normal practice the draw bar would be more than likely high tensile bar threaded to suit the tooling thread with a nut/hex on the outer end.

[RayG]

This afternoon while running the machine I heard a loud pop, the safety switch on the house dropped out and I had smoke from the housing for the electrolytic capacitor. Electrician mate of mine popped in and I am now aiting for a new capacitor. Bit of a shock but there it is.


Seems to becoming a pretty common thing with chinese caps, these days, I've had a few let go and fill the workshop with smoke. VERY scary the first time it happens. :)

Did you get that drawbar sorted yet? If it's just threaded rod, maybe you could weld the nut on the top.

Regards
Ray

[Ben Dono]

12bolts, that's a bloody top idea! Where did you come across that one? That gets :2tsup:

[Old Hutcho]

Its still there. Soaked it in Lanotec for a couple of days and that didnt help. I have been tempted to heat the outer collar which holds the spindle gently to see if that does anything but I dont know what damage I can do with bearings full of grease, seals etc inside.

Ive got no doubt whatsoever now that its a Rong Fu 20. As such it has a slot in the spindle when I lower the spindle down. I can see right through the slot but there is something with a shoulder a little higher than the bottom of the outer slot. Is this where I stick the morse taper drift in and hammer gently? Some tooling I got with the machine is MT3.

Trying to be gentle and err on the side of caution here folks, seeing as how I know bugger all about these things.:no:

regards

Old Hutcho

[Stustoys]

I've used
Loctite Freeze Release Spray 400ml | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LOCTITE-FREEZE-RELEASE-SPRAY-400ml-/280732716342?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item415cf94d36#ht_3514wt_1021)

With great success on an MT3 pillar drill spindle.(on a sample on one)


There was a post about using ball bearings to fill up the drawbar hole in the arbor before using a morse taper drift, I remember trying it and taking some pictures but I cant recall the result. I'll have more of a search but my pc isn't playing nice ATM.

Stuart

[tanii51]

i reckon its time to use the mt drift drive it in and if that doesnt shift it maybe put a rod down from the top so that it rests on the drift and try giving it a crack from the top
it might come out pretty quick so put a bit of wood or something on the table top
john

[Old Hutcho]

Well its out!

I got really frustrated with it and got the 14 lb sledge and .......No I didnt. I was frustrated, but in desperation I sprayed a heap of Lanotec down around the top of the taper and this morning I went out and in my desperation and frustration gave it a gentle tap with a steel hammer and lo and behold, it came away in my hand. I'm just so bloody happy now.

regards to all and Merry Christmas.

Old Hutcho