40 Taper Tooling Options

[Piers037]

With the arrival of the Maho 700 I need to get a new set of tooling as all my other tooling is MT4.

As I will be using the mill for 30+ years (fingers crossed), And seeing BT's bluing of the CTC arbor, I am thinking of investing in a couple of better quality pieces to get me stated.

The Maho draw bar system uses an adaptor on top of the arbor, so I have the flexibility of using both NT40 and SK40 tooling. See attached photo.

Gary who makes the DTH has recommended Mari tools in the US. The plan is to buy a ER32 Collet chuck and a drill chuck and a couple of carbide cutters.

NMTB 40-ER32-2.25QC COLLET CHUCK TOOL HOLDER - Made in USA MariTool (http://www.maritool.com/Tool-Holders-NMTB/c23_84/p15556/NMTB-40-ER32-2.25QC-COLLET-CHUCK-TOOL-HOLDER/product_info.html)

NMTB40-APU13 Drill Chuck Tool Holder NT40 MariTool (http://www.maritool.com/Tool-Holders-NMTB/c23_84/p406/NMTB-40-APU13/product_info.html)

Has anyone else used Mari tools?

Can anyone suggest other options in a similar price range?

Cheers

Piers

[bob ward]

I bought a set of their ER32 collets, accuracy is good, but that was probably 5 years ago now.

There are references to Maritool or Frank Mari on practicalmachinist.com from time to time, and those comments are invariably positive.

[Anorak Bob]

Hello Piers,

I purchased a CTC ER40 chuck and replaced the nut with one from Mari Tools. I also purchased a single 1" ER40 collet from Mari. The combination provides minimal runout. I have a number of 1" diameter screw shank cutters and while consuming a lot of Z , this is what I used to hold those cutters. I subsequently acquired a Clarkson Medium ( or intermediate ) Autolock chuck. This chuck is equipped with 25mm and 1" collets. It is a large chuck, a millimeter or two longer than the ER40 and the quality is superb. I have 4 Autolocks, two of which are 3 Morse arbored for my little Hercus mill.

If you are using screwed shank cutters, the English made a number of chucks worth consideration. Check out the offerings of Clarkson, SKF, Dormer, Osborn, Qualcut etc on eBay in the UK.

I will admit that I have never had a cutter pull out of any of my ER collets, Chinese CTC's included. My most often used chuck is a Schaublin E32. I replaced the nut with a Rego Fix ER32 and only use Rego Fix and Schaublin EX collets in that chuck. I did however use a CTC ER20 collet in the 13's high speed head on Saturday so you blokes can't call me a completely elitist prick!

German eBay is also a possible source of 40 taper tooling. In Deckel's Technical Bulletin of 1971 mention is made of "commercial" accessories ( chucks) suitable for use in their machines. Brands suggested were JAHRL, Clarksons' Autolock and Dedlock, FRANKEN-DUBLOK, BAHMUELLER, STIEBER, KELCH-NOFIX and SCHMID-VARIANT. I imagine some of these firms may have disappeared but their still may be some interesting stuff out there.

I first heard about Frank Mari on PM. Ross " Alfa GTA " praised the quality of his tooling so with the recommendation of both Ross and Gary, I don't reckon you'd go wrong with Mari Tools if the other alternatives hold little appeal.

BT

[Ueee]

Does anyone know where the Mari tools gear is made?

If you want new without spending too much but better quality than ctc I would suggest Taiwan tool. The only thing I have bought from them are sidelock holders but the finish is far better than the ctc stuff, and the runnout is imeasurable. One of my er25 chucks from ctc has considerable runnout.

Ew

[Piers037]

BT, thanks for your detailed response. I have had a quick look at Ebay de and will search for some of the names you suggested. The only problem with using German Ebay is that I need my German speaking wife to translate which is never a good idea when tool purchases are involved.....:rolleyes:

Ew, The main reason I am looking at new is so I can get up and running. The Mari ER32 chuck has Made in the USA printed on it, but I noticed the drill chuck did not. The drill chuck also does not appear to have a top knurled ring to grip when tightening! I am guessing that is because it is designed for a CNC machine that has some sort of auto brake to lock the spindle?

I will check out Taiwan Tools.

Cheers

Piers

[Anorak Bob]

I was under the impression that a lot of Mari stuff was pick of the crop Chinese.

Piers, I asked my German colleague, Frau Goericke, to write me a buttering introduction and apology for not communicating in Deutsch, which I include in any German Ebay correspondence. Works. Could be a way around your wife. My wife finds out what I've been up to when the Mastercard statement arrives.

Try this -

Hallo ....,

Bitte entschuldigen Sie das ich kein deutsch spreche und Ihnen daher die folgende Email auf englisch schreiben werden.
Danke fuer Ihr Verstaendniss.

BT

[bob ward]

Without doing a search of the PM forum, my memory is that Maritool make a lot of stuff themselves and buy a fair bit from Germany. But things change, you would have to ask the question of Frank Mari.

If Maritool do buy from Asia, you can bet it will be top quality, their market is industry not the impecunious amateur, they have a reputation to protect and they protect it fiercely. Unlike some Australian importers who either trashed their reps many years ago or never had one to start with.

[RayG]

Hi Piers,

The Deckel is all SK40 tooling, and that's where I'd be looking for a start, plenty of SK40 on ebay, but you have to be patient and wait for the bargains.

If you want to cast the net a bit wider than ebay, keep an eye on some of the european machine auction sites. Bulk lots of tooling come up from time to time, and might be worth the hassles of importing.


Metalworking buy used in online auction best value (http://www.surplex.com/en/machines/c/metal-working-41.html)
https://www.troostwijkauctions.com/uk/
Global Online Auctioneer of Used Industrial Equipment and Machinery - GoIndustry DoveBid (http://www.go-dove.com/en/)


Here's a current one, got 3 days to go, and I'd think 750 euro or better, I've see better than this, but it will give you some idea of what's out there and what you can expect to pay.

https://www.surplex.com/en/m/7/sk-40-universal-boring-and-facing-heads-and-milling-cutters-168321.html



Ray

[jhovel]

...
Piers, I asked my German colleague, Frau Goericke, to write me a buttering introduction and apology for not communicating in Deutsch, which I include in any German Ebay correspondence. Works.
...
BT


Just to be picky... :- Here is a slightly corrected version. May or may not work....
"Bitte entschuldigen Sie das ich kein Deutsch spreche und Ihnen daher die folgende Mail auf Englisch schreiben muss. Danke für Ihr Verstndniss."

[Anorak Bob]

Just to be picky... :- Here is a slightly corrected version. May or may not work....
"Bitte entschuldigen Sie das ich kein Deutsch spreche und Ihnen daher die folgende Mail auf Englisch schreiben muss. Danke für Ihr Verstndniss."

She hasn't set me up I hope :o

[Neil317]

I have a few Mari toolholders, happy with them, but recently bought some Rego-fix BT40 ER16 and ER32. Made in Switzerland, from the local agent about $100 each (60mm gauge length). They do not supply Rego-fix NT40, but if you are making pull studs could they be a bit longer and use BT40? Maritool is getting a bit expensive, especially since the dollar went south.

[Piers037]

I have done a bit more reading of the Mari website. The ER32 chuck has Made in USA in the photos but there is no mention of the fact on there web site. Interestingly the ER32 Is twice the price of the Taiwan Tools chuck, but the drill chuck (with no made in USA stamp is only $17 more than the Taiwan tools chuck but looks a lot better finished. Is the price diferance a reflection of where it is made? The only positive conformation of made in the USA I could see on the Mari site is that all their carbide cutters are made in the USA with US made carbide.

Ray, that table of tooling looks great. How do you go having this sort of gear packed up and shipped? And what are the shipping costs like?

Neil317 thanks for the heads up about the Rego-Fix prices form the local supplier. That price is the same as the Mari chuck. I would have guessed that Swiss made gear in OZ would be right out of my price range. I will give them a call on Monday.

I found a thread on PM about using BT40 in a NT40 spindle and it looks quite OK? Has anyone else done this conversion?

Cheers

Piers

[Anorak Bob]

I have done a bit more reading of the Mari website. The ER32 chuck has Made in USA in the photos but there is no mention of the fact on there web site. Interestingly the ER32 Is twice the price of the Taiwan Tools chuck, but the drill chuck (with no made in USA stamp is only $17 more than the Taiwan tools chuck but looks a lot better finished. Is the price diferance a reflection of where it is made? The only positive conformation of made in the USA I could see on the Mari site is that all their carbide cutters are made in the USA with US made carbide.

Ray, that table of tooling looks great. How do you go having this sort of gear packed up and shipped? And what are the shipping costs like?

Neil317 thanks for the heads up about the Rego-Fix prices form the local supplier. That price is the same as the Mari chuck. I would have guessed that Swiss made gear in OZ would be right out of my price range. I will give them a call on Monday.

I found a thread on PM about using BT40 in a NT40 spindle and it looks quite OK? Has anyone else done this conversion?

Cheers

Piers

Piers,

Any chance of reporting the outcome of your Rego Fix enquiry here? I've always been under the impression that their prices here were exorbitant.

Bob.

[Ueee]

Hi Piers,
I have some BT40 tooling, I just made a longer draw bar to suit and it works fine. Any 40 tooling shares the same 8deg taper and diameter as far as I am aware.

Ew

[RayG]

Ray, that table of tooling looks great. How do you go having this sort of gear packed up and shipped? And what are the shipping costs like?


Hi Piers,

You need an agent.. My son lives in Austria, ( currently though he's in Germany with his wife's family in Dortmund ) I'd be getting him to organize collection and shipping.

The auction house will often recommend an agent to act on your behalf, and arrange shipping. I'd budget $500+ over and above the auction price for shipping and handling for a lot of tooling like that one I linked to.

Ray

[Piers037]

Piers,

Any chance of reporting the outcome of your Rego Fix enquiry here? I've always been under the impression that their prices here were exorbitant.

Bob.

No problem Bob. Called them today but they are shut until the 13th.

Cheers

Piers

[azzrock]

hi here is one is it of any use. its for a 2" center hole face mill.
300121
aaron

[Piers037]

hi here is one is it of any use. its for a 2" center hole face mill.
300121
aaron

Thanks Aaron,

My face mill takes a 22mm spigot....Might have to get one from CTC so I can start making some chips........

Cheers

Piers

[azzrock]

good plan there cheap and seem ok