Best Random Orbit Sander?

[Timless Timber]

Probably going to get 2 random orbit palm sanders or one palm and one larger.

I did use a big 2 handed Festool once and was impressed - but had a pair of Makita random orbit sanders that seemed to do an awful lot of work.... I reached for them often...

Anything new to know in this sanding department.

I will probably end up getting 2nds in air tools for these functions coz sometimes they just work much faster when you have a lot of wood to remove.

Always curious what machines others use, if they are much better than what I have had in the past.

Thanks in advance. :)

[michaellxv]

Late last year I bought the Bosch GEX 125-150 AVE, mine came with both the 125mm and 150mm pads. I am very impressed with how efficient it is and low vibration.
The only complaint is I have to buy a special fitting to attach a standard vacuum hose

[LGS]

There's been quite a bit of discussion on ROS choices lately. Perhaps a search would yield some useful info?

[elanjacobs]

Mirka CEROS; size of an air sander, convenience of electric. The Festool ETS is a nice sander, but this is a class above.

[Timless Timber]

Do you find the DC converter to be a nuisance at all...Elan?

Are they sold here at all? (Website just shows US & Canukistan).

They look good in the vid.

5 inch or 6 inch (1 of each?).

Any idea what they cost?

Thanks for the suggestion - haven't heard of them before today.

I'm amazed they haven't come up with one like those cordless / battery robot vacuum cleaners - sands the board itself and then plugs itself back into the docking/charging station when it needs a energy recharge. :D

You could have a dedicated sanding bench - any board you leave on that bench, the robot sander does it for you, until its sanded as slippery as a butchers whatsit!. :wink:

I'll go do a search back on ROS and see what comes up! :2tsup:

[Damienol]

Late last year I bought the Bosch GEX 125-150 AVE, mine came with both the 125mm and 150mm pads. I am very impressed with how efficient it is and low vibration.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

[elanjacobs]

Do you find the DC converter to be a nuisance at all...Elan?

Are they sold here at all? (Website just shows US & Canukistan).

They look good in the vid.

5 inch or 6 inch (1 of each?).

Any idea what they cost?

Thanks for the suggestion - haven't heard of them before today.

I'm amazed they haven't come up with one like those cordless / battery robot vacuum cleaners - sands the board itself and then plugs itself back into the docking/charging station when it needs a energy recharge. :D

You could have a dedicated sanding bench - any board you leave on that bench, the robot sander does it for you, until its sanded as slippery as a butchers whatsit!. :wink:

I'll go do a search back on ROS and see what comes up! :2tsup:

In order:

The converter has a hanging wire, so I have it permanently hanging off the vac. The cord from it to the sander is plenty long enough (3.5m I think, could be 4m) to follow the vac hose.

They are sold here. I got mine from BC Coatings, they have a store in Welshpool for those out west Contact Us (http://www.bccoatings.com.au/contact-us)

They come in 6", 5" and 90mm (3.5"?)

Cost is $550 http://www.bccoatings.com.au/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&category_id=41&product_id=1032&Itemid=1 (their site doesn't say about GST, but if it's the same as when I bought it's plus GST) in a cardboard box. For comparison, the Festool ETS150 can be had for $515 inc GST. I say it's worth the extra $90 but I have it for work and use it daily, YMMV.

More info in this thread http://www.woodworkforums.com/f13/where-see-buy-mirka-ceros-ros-brisbane-180403/

[DonIncognito]

Late last year I bought the Bosch GEX 125 AVE, mine came with both the 125mm and 150mm pads. I am very impressed with how efficient it is and low vibration.
The only complaint is I have to buy a special fitting to attach a standard vacuum hose

I got this as well, and you may have just fixed my only complaint with it. Where did you get the fitting?

Other than that, this sander is all sorts of great. However I have no basis for comparison, as this is my first ROS

[Superbunny]

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

The Bosch gets my vote also, it's a great sander but if your rich you could get a Festool but I can't see how they justify the cost, it's not like Bosch or the others don't do any R&D or know how to make a good ROS. You wait, the Festool guys will come in now and argue how good they are to justify the cost.:D:D

sB

[Timless Timber]

Bosch GEX 125-150 AVE Professional English - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nhEoQsP__U)

The Bosch is looking a likely candidate at the moment.

:2tsup:

[michaellxv]

I got this as well, and you may have just fixed my only complaint with it. Where did you get the fitting?

I didn't, I just saw that one was available.

[LGS]

The Bosch gets my vote also, it's a great sander but if your rich you could get a Festool but I can't see how they justify the cost, it's not like Bosch or the others don't do any R&D or know how to make a good ROS. You wait, the Festool guys will come in now and argue how good they are to justify the cost.:D:D

sB

I like my ETS150/3, what you choose to buy is really of no interest to me.

Regards,

Rob

[Timless Timber]

Well the ROS are next on my list, (Unless i come across a good 1/2 inch plunge router going cheap on gumtree first)...

Just picked up a lovely Makita Belt sander (9924DB) from a retired guy... $150 and it's basically had no use - still looks essentially new. He bought it for one small job - then never got round to using it for anything else...and finally decided to quit it.

So I am slowly getting there.

Router and router table.

ROS

Chisel Morticer.

Bandsaw.

Drum Sander

Girl Friday! :wink:

Don't want much, do I? :D

Guess I should never have sold up the factory.... it's murder replacing everything a decade later... on a shoe string budget.

[dalejw]

I'll throw the Metabo sxe450 150mm in the ring as well.

We bought a house a few years ago which had blood stained carpets throughout... Gross huh! We ripped
up all the carpets and the jarrah floors had a load of blood on them as well.

It was either hire a floor sander or use the cash to buy a sander and try to sand 90sqm of Jarrah with it.

I bought the Metabo, filled out the extended warranty, turned the turbo (boost) switch on and sanded a whole house with 80 grit over 2 days leaning on it with my whole body weight.

Didn't miss a beat.

3 years later I'm still hammering it and it's great.

It can be surprisingly gentle as well with the oscillation diameter turned down.

[Damienol]

Bosch GEX 125-150 AVE Professional English - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nhEoQsP__U)

The Bosch is looking a likely candidate at the moment.

:2tsup:

This router has an article on it in this months Australian Woodsmith

[LuckyDuck]

Back in 1993 I purchased a Rotex 150. Festool was called "Festo" then. I have used this machine a very great deal. It does not stall, overheat, or vibrate; in short, it seems indestructible to me. If it broke tomorrow, I would buy another Rotex tomorrow.

Yes it costs a lot; but my Rotex has lasted 20 years, and is as good as ever. I am even more impressed by the fact that the current sanding pads for the new Rotex fit on my 20 year old machine. Wow!

I just picked up a used ETS 150/3 and love it too. Very light and versatile. I love the fact that the pads and discs are interchangeable with my Rotex. This seems the perfect combination for me.

I used to balk at the extra cost of Festool. It seems just sooooo much. However, longevity, design, and virtually perfect dust extraction mean that I no longer think twice. I buy only Festool, and when I can't afford it, I wait until I can.

You will have to decide whether the extra expense is justified.:rolleyes:

David

[sinjin]

I have the FEIN 6" and 8" ROS. Have used the Festo and RUPES..all good.
But i guess for swinging on it all day every day the 6" Fein you can't beat.
Its made for serious hard usage and i doubt there are any that would last as long
However the Festo is much much smoother than my machine to hold.
But i just don't think it could handle heavy duty work days on end.

I own about 7 sanders of different types and most are European I day was under the pump
one day to buy a new 1/4 sheet Sander and was disappointed that the Festo i was replacing
you could only get with a Valcro base. The man in the shop told me the Bosch was just as good...
jokingly i said if its not i will bring it back...he said fine..

Anyway got it home and started sanding..and straight away you knew it wasn't a patch on
the Festo. I took my old Festo and the new Bosch back to the store for him to see first hand.
There was no argument the old Festo was a more efficient machine...so he took the Bosch back
and i bought a new Velcro Festo.

Sanders change all the time so in no way am i saying Festo is better than Bosch. I guess what i am saying
they all work very well and if u get the chance to try them side by side i think its not so hard to judge.
Dust extraction, vibration, balance, stock removal.

Sinjin

So Sander wise i own
2. Fein ROS machines.
1. Fein triangle sander..(The larger industrial version)
1. Rupes gear head 8" Disc Sander.
1. Bosch 4" wide belt sander with flattening base
1. Rupes half sheet sander
1. Festo 1/4 sheet sander.

[LuckyDuck]

I have the FEIN 6" and 8" ROS. Have used the Festo and RUPES..all good.
But i guess for swinging on it all day every day the 6" Fein you can't beat.
Its made for serious hard usage and i doubt there are any that would last as long
However the Festo is much much smoother than my machine to hold.
But i just don't think it could handle heavy duty work days on end.


Are you referring to the Rotex 150? It can't be stalled. Ok, ok, I can't stall it; maybe someone else can! :rolleyes:
I've used it for hours on end, literally, and while it gets warm, it just keeps on going.

[Ratbag]

I also admire the rotex family of sanders.

I have the RO150 & RO90DX. The former in particular is a fine tool, the latter (due to the smaller pad sizes) a little awkwardly balanced. The 150 is an extreme all rounder, probably the most versatile on the market.

What sets the Festool range apart, however, is the unprecedented range of abrasives available, from 24g right up into the 1000's. Specialist abrasives are available for all sorts: wood, paint, stone, metal, body filler etc. etc. plus there's polishing pads, polishes etc.

There may be better sanders available, but I've yet to see any that even comes close to Festool's versatile and comprehensive range of sanding solutions.

[elanjacobs]

I've never been able to understand why people use x brand abrasives to support x brand sanders. You can have one without the other.

[Ratbag]

Some abrasives are unique: Festool have 9 hole discs, the others don't. Mirkas use dedicated mesh abrasives, and there's specialised 80mm (Metabo), 90mm (Festool) & 200mm (Fein) sanders, with little opportunity to source alternatives.

Festool's huge advantage I reiterate, is their unique, high quality and massively versatile range of abrasives. This is why their particular range of sanding solutions are unsurpassed.

Yes there are other quality abrasive manufacturers: Mirka, Klingspor, 3M, St Gobain and others, but even collectively they still don't offer the versatility and variety of Festool's range.

I've tried other abrasives with my rotex sander: Klingspor & St Gobain stearate coated papers, but they just don't measure up to Festool's Brilliant 2 abrasives.

[FenceFurniture]

I love the fact that the pads and discs are interchangeable with my Rotex. No longer the case David. I presume they have changed the Rotex pads on the later models.

[FenceFurniture]

What sets the Festool range apart, however, is the unprecedented range of abrasives available, from 24g right up into the 1000's. Specialist abrasives are available for all sorts: wood, paint, stone, metal, body filler etc. etc. plus there's polishing pads, polishes etc.That's true, but it doesn't necessarily mean that each range is the best on the market.



Yes there are other quality abrasive manufacturers: Mirka, etcMirka makes the abrasives for Festool.


I pretty much only sand bare wood, and for the past couple of years I have been using both the Festool and Jost abrasives on my ETS 150/3. The grits that I have from both brands are the same, but to achieve that with the FT range I had to change to Granat from Rubin 2 after 220g (no big deal, but I don't understand why the Rubin range doesn't go up to 400-500). After that I have Jost "SG2" in 800, 1600, 2500, and I had a few samples of 3000, 4000.

The SG2 range is like Wet & Dry, so similar to the Platin discs from Festool, and they do not have DE holes. The durability of these fine grit discs is ridiculously long, and they also do an excellent job on metals.

Where the FT discs have the 32 hole pattern, the Jost have hundreds of 2mm holes which are designed to work with any sander's DE pattern. I do not notice any discernible difference in the amount of dust left behind on the job, but there is a little more behind the disc with the Jost (who cares). I would say that the Jost discs are a little more durable in the 120-500 range. The coarsest Jost I have used is 60g, and the extraction on those is good, but perhaps in an extra coarse 24-40g disc when sanding paint these holes may not be big enough.

What I have noticed in the grits <=500, is that because of the size of the FT holes it causes the sander to jag. This does not happen with the Jost because the holes are much smaller.

On European prices, Jost are from memory about 15-20% less cost than FT.

The bottom line for me is that although my policeman urged me to "ditch those Jost abrasives - because garbage in garbage out" I find myself always going for a Jost in preference to FT. A little more durable, less cost, just as effective, and no jagging.

[Evanism]

FenceFurniture, I have a Ro125 and I've always looked for alternatives. Looks you've found them...

You mentioned Mirka. Which products do you use and where do you buy? It seems endless.

I'll look at the Jost too....to google!

Thanks!

[FenceFurniture]

Which products do you use and where do you buy? Direct from the manufacturer in Germany.

[Evanism]

Ah! Joest. Deutche schleifmittel.

No wonder I couldn't find them. Stupid google thinks In English.

[FenceFurniture]

Ah! Joest. Deutche schleifmittel.

No wonder I couldn't find them. Stupid google thinks In English.Yeah, I keep forgetting to type Jöst and it's tricky to remember all the codes.

[LGS]

The bottom line for me is that although my policeman urged me to "ditch those Jost abrasives - because garbage in garbage out" I find myself always going for a Jost in preference to FT. A little more durable, less cost, just as effective, and no jagging.

If these are the pads you had Lignum test for you, (the ones I wanted nothing to do with once he'd told me the truth about them) then they are not as good as the Festool pads in the opinion of someone whose judgment I respect a lot more than yours.

[Evanism]

If these are the pads you had Lignum test for you, (the ones I wanted nothing to do with once he'd told me the truth about them) then they are not as good as the Festool pads in the opinion of someone whose judgment I respect a lot more than yours.


Far out. That's the slap down of the century. Sassy!

Obviously there's something in the past there, but damn, if the dude wants to by sanding pads made by orphans in Romanian sweatshops, and it's legal, it's fine. Importing is fine. Not supporting Australian businesses is fine.

It the wonderful freedom of capitalism. Though, I would admit that it's a bastardised version here in Australia!

I don't recall upon buying Festool that I would agree to buy their consumables....which I have, repeatedly, but somewhat....ah, reluctantly (price matters to me)

Perhaps to step it up a bit and reveal some truth, in 2012 I wrote to the ACCC about them and their abuses of trade practices in third line forcing, threats of trade restrictions and price maintenance. (I'm not a lawyer, but did law as part of degree). I was advised that they were infact fined, made an enforceable undertaking and are actively monitored. Obviously little has changed.

Back to the paper though. If he wants to buy what is perceived to be an inferior product, it's up to him. People do this every day buying from Kmart, Bunnings and Ford. :U

Perhaps you can tell us what this Truth is?

[FenceFurniture]

See here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f9/jost-abrasives-%96-first-impressions-%96-excellent-140243/) for Lignum's comments which seem to be somewhat at odds with the others.

[elanjacobs]

Ok everybody, we're talking about the best SANDER

If you want to argue about paper, start a new thread.

[Ratbag]

My original point is I consider FT's sanders superior in that they provide an integrated solution that is better than their competitors.

For my needs, and those of most others I'd suggest, is a Rotex 150, ETS 3, and a Deltex. This gives you the one of the best roughing/polishing sanders available, one of the smoothest operating finishing sanders, and the largest operating orbit delta on the market for all those nasty little corners.

I wouldn't recommend the RO90 as it isn't big enough for rough rotary work, too physically big and awkward compared to the Deltex, and compromised as a finisher.

My Sxe400s are better to handle also, as is my 25 year old GDA280E delta.

You get a sanding system that covers almost all contingencies with this 3 tool combo. It negates the need for belt, rotary, orbital and linear sanders and polishers, while providing an economical amount of system interchangeability.

[sinjin]

Just curious how you think a rotary sander of any brannd is better than a Linear sander. You talking finish or just stock removal.

[Ratbag]

I'm referring to an angle grinder or drill powered rotary, and a Festool Duplex type linear sander.

I wasn't suggesting that one type is inherently superior, but that my suggested 3 tool combo is a comprehensive, economical and useful substitute for all the other types I mentioned.

[sinjin]

Ok sorry i missunderstood what you ment by linear understood..i mean linear sanders as such used in the auto industry action of the sanding action is literally back and forth. Apart from the noise i think they great.

[Ratbag]

That"s what the Duplex sander does. Festool makes a fairly good one with twin gear driven counterweights to counter vibration. It's just a bit slow to produce results, and due to its linear action tends to clog the papers also.

Years ago I had a so called "dual action" B&D sander with a lever to change between orbital and linear operation. Pretty hopeless really. It was slow, noisy and extremely vibratory, with little apparent difference between the two modes.

[sinjin]

Ok we are different pages..a linear sander as i call it is like a stroke sander..it does not rotate at all....The sander literally sands forward and backwards...there is no rotation at all. many many years ago you could buy electric stroke sanders but they weren't very reliable. Pneumatic stroke sanders are common place

[Ratbag]

That's what the Duplex does: stroke backwards & forwards only. It"s marketed by FT as a more rapid alternative to a hand block. I have a couple of them. They are useful in having easily changed platens: flat concave convex right angled & a kit to custom make your own for complex mouldings.

While useful I'm personally a bit underwhelmed by the tool. As previously mentioned they're slow and due to the linear action tend to clog papers easily in paint!