Recommend your favorite TCMT insert

[variant22]

I recently got a bit jack of seeing my cheapie carbide tipped boring bars going round on the ends (blunt). I decided to invest in a boring bar that takes TCMT inserts. Now the insert zoo being what it is, leaves me scratching my head on what I should run. I am really looking for a readily available quality insert for Aluminum but I am also interested to hear what inserts you run for steel. If you are running a TCMT insert or merely have an exquisite knowledge of inserts, share your recommendations..

[Ueee]

If you want ally cutting tips you may be better with TCGT....just to give you even more options. I don't use the TCMT shape so i can't offer any more help, but ebay is your friend.....

Ew

[Big Shed]

Not the cheapest, but I guess readily available

http://wic043u.server-secure.com/vs4487_secure/find.asp?q=tcmt

There are numerous listings on Ebay, but most from the US with ludicrous postage eg

TCMT 3 2 5 1 UF H13A Sandvik Insert | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TCMT-3-2-5-1-UF-H13A-SANDVIK-INSERT-/180797404743?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a185d7647)

Another Oz source

LPR Toolmakers - Search Results for "tcmt" (http://www.lprtoolmakers.com.au/search.php?search_query=tcmt&x=0&y=0)

The there is always CTC Tools

CTC Tools Product List (http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/Categories)

and from memory CDCO also have them

[RayG]

I recently got a bit jack of seeing my cheapie carbide tipped boring bars going round on the ends (blunt). I decided to invest in a boring bar that takes TCMT inserts. Now the insert zoo being what it is, leaves me scratching my head on what I should run. I am really looking for a readily available quality insert for Aluminum but I am also interested to hear what inserts you run for steel. If you are running a TCMT insert or merely have an exquisite knowledge of inserts, share your recommendations..

For aluminium, the high rake inserts seem to work pretty well.. but back to the boring bars, I sharpen the carbide on an el-cheapo chain saw sharpener with a diamond cup wheel.
I think there are some pictures in an earlier thread...

It's one of these NEW 320W PRO Chainsaw Sharpener Chain SAW Grinder in Sydney, NSW | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-320W-PRO-CHAINSAW-SHARPENER-CHAIN-SAW-GRINDER-/231131308967?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item35d07fe3a7&_uhb=1) you throw away everything except the motor and mount a diamond cup wheel 100mm Diamond Grinding Wheel CUP Grit Cutter Grinder | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/100MM-Diamond-Grinding-Wheel-Cup-Grit-Cutter-Grinder-/130519288445?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item1e638e4a7d&_uhb=1)

Ray

[variant22]

If you want ally cutting tips you may be better with TCGT....just to give you even more options. I don't use the TCMT shape so i can't offer any more help, but ebay is your friend.....

Ew
Thanks for the tip Ew. I assume that I can run TCGT in a TCMT holder? Reading up it appears so..

Big Shed; I actually picked up these Mitsubishi TCMT110204 NX2525 TCMT21 51 Carbide Insert New 10pcs Box | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/MITSUBISHI-TCMT110204-NX2525-TCMT21-51-Carbide-Insert-NEW-10PCS-box-/321195118446) for use with steel.

I know the Tungaloy TCMT21.51-PS NS730. But it looks like these are no longer made. I can find them for steel but not the NS730 for AL. Carbide depot has them but at a flat rate of $50 for shipping they are out of the question.

The point of this post is really to see if there was a particular brand and type that people have had great results with and is readily available.. Rather avoid the crap shoot if possible.

[LPR Toolmakers]

I recently got a bit jack of seeing my cheapie carbide tipped boring bars going round on the ends (blunt). I decided to invest in a boring bar that takes TCMT inserts. Now the insert zoo being what it is, leaves me scratching my head on what I should run. I am really looking for a readily available quality insert for Aluminum but I am also interested to hear what inserts you run for steel. If you are running a TCMT insert or merely have an exquisite knowledge of inserts, share your recommendations..

Hi variant,
please check the link Big Shed shared (Thanks mate :) ) to LPR Toolmakers.

Do you have a picture of the boring bar? Depending on the screw size required we should be able to help you out.

Also, those who have seen the international shipping prices for small light items like carbide tips, how insane are they?

[nearnexus]

Thanks for the tip Ew. I assume that I can run TCGT in a TCMT holder? Reading up it appears so..

Big Shed; I actually picked up these Mitsubishi TCMT110204 NX2525 TCMT21 51 Carbide Insert New 10pcs Box | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/MITSUBISHI-TCMT110204-NX2525-TCMT21-51-Carbide-Insert-NEW-10PCS-box-/321195118446) for use with steel.

The point of this post is really to see if there was a particular brand and type that people have had great results with and is readily available.. Rather avoid the crap shoot if possible.


I currently use those same Mitsu NX inserts for steel and they are excellent. Very high chip/damage resistance. Can handle interrupted cuts quite well.

For alloy you should go for a broad radius to reduce galling.

HSS is better for alloy IMHO.

Rob

[Jekyll and Hyde]

The nx2525 in a positive rake insert is actually intended as a steel insert for 'stable' turning (as in not meant for interrupted cuts). I however found them to be a pretty good all round insert for most steels (even on interrupted cuts, although a little brittle). I now have a few other grades to experiment with, although since buying them I haven't had much to play with. The UE6110 (Mitsubishi again, in positive rake inserts is the next step up from the nx2525 in terms of handling interrupted cuts) with an 08 nose radius certainly seems to cut very nicely and is highly durable on fairly nasty interrupted cuts, but I haven't really tested it on some of the harder steels in my stash. Also doesn't seem to want to run as fast as the nx2525, but I think that's due to the much bigger nose radius (my nx2525 are 02 and 04 radius) as the ue6110 has higher recommended speeds than the nx2525.

Playing with the nose radius can yield interesting results too - I have some truly awful black bar lying around here which is extremely soft and gummy. Turns beautifully with a shiny finish with an 02 radius, and smears everywhere with an 04 radius. Doesn't always go how you expect either, sometimes you think an 02 radius will work well, but after disappointing finishes, a switch to an 08 gives amazing results. Whether that last is partly due to a change in grade of insert, I suppose I will work out over time.

Back to your main original question however, Mitsubishi do have an insert specifically for aluminium, which is the HTi10 grade.

Mitsubishi carbide catalog here: http://www.mitsubishicarbide.com/mmc/en/pro duct/pdf/catalog/c006b_a.pdf (http://www.mitsubishicarbide.com/mmc/en/product/pdf/catalog/c006b_a.pdf)

Page 31 has a quick reference chart for grades to suit applications, previous pages have more detailed information including turning speeds. Note that the positive rake insert recommendations start at page 17, and they differ quite a bit to the negative rake ones.

Unfortunately, for some odd reason, CTC don't carry the HTi10 grade in your size, which I found annoying when I was regularly using a holder that took the same insert. I now use a different holder (Takes CCMT09T3XX inserts, far greater range of insert choice from CTC at least) but have never bothered to invest in any HTi10, as I find my cheap HSS from CTC is more than fine for aluminium. Only use it for that, and I don't believe I've ever re ground the tool, despite doing rather a lot of aluminium work, which also makes it cost effective!

I have tried the nx2525 and one type of sumitomo insert (came with the lathe, and fits my boring bars), but the finish is never even close to that of my HSS tool, and I can take much deeper cuts with the HSS (think I've managed 5mm DOC in the past on my AL335). A specific aluminium insert would almost perform far better than the others, since they supposedly have different coatings, but given the cost, I can't see any point finding out!

[RayG]

Here's that carbide sharpener setup.

I got a $39 (postage included) chainsaw sharpener off ebay, I got the cheapest I could find.

New 320W PRO CHAINSAW SHARPENER CHAIN SAW GRINDER | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-320W-PRO-CHAINSAW-SHARPENER-CHAIN-SAW-GRINDER-/160654255716?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2567bd6664)

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/SC2011/DSCN0957.JPG

Pulled it apart and fitted a 75mm (400 grit) diamond cup wheel, same 10mm shaft diameter, motor is geared and spins the wheel at 7200rpm.

It needs a stand of some sort, but works fine just clamped to the bench..

Don't know what to do with the extra bits, but I'm sure they will be handy..

Regards
Ray

[nearnexus]

Here's that carbide sharpener setup.

I got a $39 (postage included) chainsaw sharpener off ebay, I got the cheapest I could find.

Regards
Ray

You could almost make a TPG out of that :)

Rob

[Steamwhisperer]

Here's that carbide sharpener setup.

I got a $39 (postage included) chainsaw sharpener off ebay, I got the cheapest I could find.

New 320W PRO CHAINSAW SHARPENER CHAIN SAW GRINDER | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-320W-PRO-CHAINSAW-SHARPENER-CHAIN-SAW-GRINDER-/160654255716?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2567bd6664)

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/SC2011/DSCN0957.JPG

Pulled it apart and fitted a 75mm (400 grit) diamond cup wheel, same 10mm shaft diameter, motor is geared and spins the wheel at 7200rpm.

It needs a stand of some sort, but works fine just clamped to the bench..

Don't know what to do with the extra bits, but I'm sure they will be handy..

Regards
Ray

Funny how that one looks just like the one I bought for my scraper tip sharpener Ray.
Thanks again for the lead on that one. What you get for what you pay is outstanding and saves having to get a green wheel.

Phil
300570

[Oldneweng]

Here's that carbide sharpener setup.

I got a $39 (postage included) chainsaw sharpener off ebay, I got the cheapest I could find.

New 320W PRO CHAINSAW SHARPENER CHAIN SAW GRINDER | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-320W-PRO-CHAINSAW-SHARPENER-CHAIN-SAW-GRINDER-/160654255716?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2567bd6664)

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/SC2011/DSCN0957.JPG

Pulled it apart and fitted a 75mm (400 grit) diamond cup wheel, same 10mm shaft diameter, motor is geared and spins the wheel at 7200rpm.

It needs a stand of some sort, but works fine just clamped to the bench..

Don't know what to do with the extra bits, but I'm sure they will be handy..

Regards
Ray

Nice idea Ray. I am going to order one of those and the wheel to suit. I will be getting a boring head one day, and I will be able to shape and sharpen brazed carbide tools that I make myself. Special purpose tools.

Dean

[cba_melbourne]

.....I am really looking for a readily available quality insert for Aluminum but I am also interested to hear what inserts you run for steel. If you are running a TCMT insert or merely have an exquisite knowledge of inserts, share your recommendations..


There are special inserts for Aluminium. These have a very positive top rake of about 25 degrees (sometimes up to 30), and mirror polished surfaces, and razor sharp cutting edges. These have exatly the same size and shape as your TCMT inserts, but are called TCGT (the G stands for polished surfaces). After the TCGT comes the same series of 6 numbers that you were using with your existing TCMT inserts. For example, if you were using TCMT090204 you would now need TCGT090204. The last digit actually means the tip radius, in this case 0.4mm. You can also get 02 or o6 or 08mm, depending what you usie it for most. Now this still does exactly get you what you want, which is a high top rake geometry optimised for cutting Alumium. You will get this by adding a suffix -ALU or -AL (each manufacturer uses a different set of suffixes, but most would use -AL or -ALU for what you want). The complete order number for above example thus is TCGT090204-ALU. Note that this is the Metric ISO designation, the Americans would call it the same letters but use a different numbering system for the size).

Now, if you are also after a brand recommendation, it gets trickier. For home use, I suggest you browse ebay and buy whatever brand has a lower price offering or is on special. Just stay away from unknown or fantasy name brands. I personally use German made PlanseeTIZIT CCGT inserts simply because a few years ago I could buy several packs at a very good price (CCGT are diamond shaped, TCGT are triangular shaped). They are excellent, but many other brand is just as good.

For steel I would recommend you use the same TCGT insert for fine and finest finishing, but for roughing use the good old TCMT. For home use it does absolutely not matter if coated or not. Look up on eBay, and buy what is cheapest at the time. Just stay away from unknown brands, there are some pretty inferior quality inserts around. Look up the insert brand maker on the internet, you will quickly see which brands are serious as they have professional catalogs and huge insert ranges and application notes etc etc and are also carried by industrial tools suppliers, whereas backyard manufacturers may only have brochures written in languages that you cannot read anyway....

Do not go overboard: you really only need two types of insert in a home shop. The TCGT-ALU suffix kind will do everything Aluminium, non ferrous metals, all plastics, even wood, plus ferrous metals finest finishing. Whereas the TCMT is perfect for roughing and finishing of all ferrous metals including cast irons and interrupted cuts.

Note: TCGTxxxxxx-ALU are NOT suitable for heavy interrupted cuts, the 25 degree top rake makes the cutting edge very fragile! Only very LIGHT interrupted cuts are ok.

[Ueee]

If it were me i'd buy a packet of these and see how they go....NEW 10pcs Korloy TCGT090204 AK Aluminium Carbide Insert CNC Milling AND Lathe | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-10pcs-Korloy-TCGT090204-AK-Aluminium-Carbide-Insert-CNC-Milling-and-Lathe-/280890523353?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4166613ed9)

Chris pretty much nailed what i was too lazy to explain before.

HSS does cut ally very well but unless your running flood coolant i find edge build up can be a real big problem. You won't get this problem with the correctly coated ally inserts.

Ew

[Michael G]

HSS does cut ally very well but unless your running flood coolant i find edge build up can be a real big problem. You won't get this problem with the correctly coated ally inserts.

If you rub the material being cut with an ordinary cheap parrafin candle, the thin film of wax left is enough to lubricate the cutter preventing build up. I've not done it on a lathe but have on the mill and it works.

Michael

[Gammaboy]

If you rub the material being cut with an ordinary cheap parrafin candle, the thin film of wax left is enough to lubricate the cutter preventing build up. I've not done it on a lathe but have on the mill and it works.

Michael

Works well on bandsaw blades, holesaws and step drills too.

[variant22]

Thanks to all that responded. There is a wealth of information now in this thread that is not only helping myself but hopefully others that come across it. I had no idea about the interchangeability and difference between TCMT and TCGT (Ueee) inserts. The different radius angles (Jekyll and Hyde) and top rake angles (cba_melbourne). And thanks to Ray for sharing the tip on resharpening the carbide. The brazed carbide boring bars developed a radius in a couple of cuts so I am not going to bother to resharpen as they appear to be total junk (paid next to nothing for them). For the note this all happened using flood coolant whilst producing wonderful spiral springs of steel. They got the job done going from 25mm to 36mm, and also making a 20mm boss, but I swore I would not bother with them again.

I ended up going with some Korloy inserts that Ueee mentioned above. I had my eye on them as I have had success using their SEHT inserts with my Glacern face mill. I will see how they go at boring AL.