One metre matters...

[corbs]

As a cyclist I feel quite strongly about this but if you have any member of your family who rides a bike then it's something you should also be passionate about.

If you'd like to make our roads safer for all cyclists, please print out the petition in the link below, sign it and send it to the following address:

Andrew Nikolic MP, Federal Member for Bass
100 St John Street
Launceston Tas 7250

You can send it in with just one signature or get the support of friends & family... one metre matters

Petition (http://www.amygillett.org.au/assets/Petition-Minimum-overtaking-distance.pdf)

Here's (http://www.amygillett.org.au/letter-to-your-mp-for-a-one-metre-minimum-passing-distance/) a formatted letter which can be emailed to your local MP calling for their support

Here's (http://www.amygillett.org.au/a-metre-matters) a bit more light reading :)

[Sir Stinkalot]

Its a great idea Corbs .... motorists need to realise that somebody on a bicycle is somebodies son, daughter, brother, sister, husband or wife. A delay of 30 seconds in a car is nothing so it is important to play safe around bikes.

You may find this journey interesting:
www.the-taff-trail.com (http://www.the-taff-trail.com/)

Basically it is a guy and his wife moving to NZ from UK. He is riding and she is flying. It is a blog following his journey and quite an enjoyable read if you have some time.

What raised my interest in relation to your post is something I read about 1/2 an hour ago with Rob writing about his experience in cycling to Kangaroo Island here is South Australia:

The roads themselves have not been the best I have ridden, nor the worst. However, I can’t admit to feeling totally safe on them, as cars scream past me at high speed. In fact, it’s the first country in which I have felt the need to wear a reflective vest.

[corbs]

Thanks SS, will check out the blog.

On my local road rides I usually expect a few close calls and have been hit a few times as well. I was glanced by a caravan a couple of weeks ago. Not enough to knock me off but enough to think "bl:oo::oo:dy hell, I just got hit by a caravan", that was in a 100km/h zone but uphill so the van was doing 70-80km/h.

That said, the quote below was my facebook status after a ride last week :)



Just had an amazing ride on the bike. A bit over 2 hours, covered 60km and had the most courteous drivers all the way. Had one lady in qbn stop and appologise because she was afraid she got too close to me (there was plenty of room). I rode a 15km stretch which was quite narrow and no shoulder to safely ride on, had at least 8 cars slow down to my speed and wait for a safe place to pass. I've done rides which were more fun but I've never felt so safe on a bike. Thank you to all the drivers I shared the road with today

[I_wanna_Shed]

I'm all for the petition Corbs. I hate cycling on busy roads. Most roads around here are 80 or 100kph limits, luckily with just enough room to be able to ride just in from the white line.


However, I'm dubious as to how Police will enforce the rule, and how many people they will actually fine. After all, keeping left on the freeways unless overtaking is clearly signposted, but it never happens...


Someone swerved at me a few weeks ago because I held him up for what I estimated to be 4 seconds while I went through a small roundabout. The knob then pulled into his driveway 70m up the road. Details passed on to the Police. That's typical of some drivers' attitudes. I'm clueless as to how to change that.

[corbs]

...
However, I'm dubious as to how Police will enforce the rule, and how many people they will actually fine. After all, keeping left on the freeways unless overtaking is clearly signposted, but it never happens...

I completely agree and I think it's something that would be applied retrospectively in most cases. It's going to be hard for any driver to argue that they passed either 1 or 1.5m if they hit a cyclist. The quote below is an extract from the formatted letter to the local MP which I linked...



The tragic death of 25 year old, Richard Pollett, highlights the inadequacies of this regulation. Richard was riding his bicycle when he was killed after being struck by a cement truck as the driver attempted to overtake him. The truck driver’s lawyer said the driver was under "the honest and reasonable belief" that there was enough room on the road to safely overtake him. The truck driver was acquitted.

If there were a law requiring the safe margins, the pathetic defence of "I thought I was" couldn't be used.

[Evanism]

Cameras. High res cameras on the back and the front of the bikes.

Send the footage to a friendly lawyer who then vigorously sues everyone who hits you into financial oblivion. Legal violence will get their attention.

Repeat 1000 times and not one car will come within 50 metres of a bike.

[corbs]

Cameras. High res cameras on the back and the front of the bikes.

I think the high res to the rear which should give rego, make/model/colour of vehicle and may even give enough information to identify the driver. A high res to the front would be nice but if you got hit, it's probably not going to show much if you're heading towards the not so smooth stuff next to the road :-

I have a HD one which will be mounted under my seat pointing aft and I will look at another small/cheap to mount on the bars facing forward :)

[doug3030]

Nothing much changes. 20 years ago I was in the Army, posted to Canberra, riding a bike to work most days.

I think they applied the 1cm rule back then and i had my handlebars clipped by ACT busses more times than I would like to recall.

Enforcement of road rules has nothing to do with making the roads safer. If it did then there would be less emphasis on speeding and drink/drug driving. These are the offences they concentrate on because they can produce evidence of the speed you were doing or the level of alcohol/drugs in your system. As such these are subject to on-the-spot fines that are very rarely contested in court.

Its much harder to collect the evidence to prosecute someone for not keeping one metre from a cyclist, tailgating, driving fatigued and all the other offences which really cause the road toll.

It is all about State Revenue Collection, not road safety. The government tells the police: "Go out and prosecute the offences which can be proven the most easily. Dont waste police time on offences that people will contest and defeat."

Speed cameras are about raising revenue, not about saving lives. I bet every one of you either has been fined as a result of a speed camera or at least knows someone who has. But if speed cameras save lives, then surely at least one of you can tell me the name of someone whose life was saved by a speed camera and how.

Anyone like to take up that challenge?

Cheers

Doug

[Big Shed]

I am both a cyclist and a car driver.

I have absolutely no problem with a law that states that cars have to keep a safe distance from a cyclist, but I would also like to see some laws tell cyclists what they can and can't do on our roads. (we could even make it compulsory for cyclists to obey traffic light - now there is a novel idea!)

To back up those laws and make sure that both police and ordinary citizens can report misbehaving cyclists (yes there are some believe it or not!) I would like to see number plates introduced for bicycles, as well as a registration fee to pay for building and maintaing bike paths. This registration fee would include the TAC charge that motorists pay.

[doug3030]

but I would also like to some laws tell cyclists what they can and can't do on our roads. (we could even make it compulsory for cyclists to obey traffic light - now there is a novel idea!)

They already have the laws to tell the cyclists what to do - many of them are the laws I referred to above that are just uneconomical for the police to enforce.

There are even special rules only for cyclists. In Queensland it is legal for a bike to overtake on the left hand side for example. This is the stupidest and most unsafe road rule I know of. I was once driving in Bundaberg and indicated to pull over to the left when I was well clear of the cyclist behind me. As I slowed down he started to overtke me on the left and ran out of road as I pulled over. He had plenty of room to move out and pass on the right. He stopped as I stopped and started physically beating into the side of my car with his hands and feet calling out "you tried to kill me you c...". A passing policeman showed him the error of his ways. He had been behind the cyclist and witnessed the whole thing. He finished up paying for a new door panel for me. He was not prosecuted for a traffic offence, but for wilful damage to property or something similar. Police said I had done nothing wrong but that technically the way the law is written he could overtake on the left so they knew they would not be able to prosecute him for a traffic offence because of that stupid law.

[corbs]

I am both a cyclist and a car driver.

I have absolutely no problem with a law that states that cars have to keep a safe distance from a cyclist, but I would also like to see some laws tell cyclists what they can and can't do on our roads. (we could even make it compulsory for cyclists to obey traffic light - now there is a novel idea!)

To back up those laws and make sure that both police and ordinary citizens can report misbehaving cyclists (yes there are some believe it or not!) I would like to see number plates introduced for bicycles, as well as a registration fee to pay for building and maintaing bike paths. This registration fee would include the TAC charge that motorists pay.

BS,
The proportions of cyclists who don't obey traffic lights is much lower than you might think. Here (https://www.bicyclenetwork.com.au/media/vanilla/file/MUARC%20red%20running.pdf) is the report from a study which was conducted at ten sites across Melbourne from Oct 08 until Apr 09. Of the 4225 cyclists who faced a red light, 292 (6.9% were non compliant).

On the matter of bike registration, roads are paid for out of general revenue. The TAC (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/FeesFormsAndFAQs/Fees/AboutTheTransportAccidentCommissioncharge.htm) charge you refer to is the "Traffic Accident Charge" and is used to pay for treatment and support services for people injured in transport accidents. None of your registration fees pays for better roads. Further, registration fees are calculated on vehicle weight. I'm more than happy to pay my bike registration calculated on the 8kg's my bike weighs. I will proudly place a number plate on my bike and I will ride down the middle of the road which I'm now apparently paying for. In reality, bike registration isn't really a viable option when all the issues are investigated. The countries which do have bike registration schemes are more about identifying stolen bikes rather than identifying bike riders who have done wrong.

How many cars doing the wrong thing have you identified by number plate to the police and then had any follow up action?


.... In Queensland it is legal for a bike to overtake on the left hand side for example. This is the stupidest and most unsafe road rule I know of. I was once driving in Bundaberg and indicated to pull over to the left when I was well clear of the cyclist behind me. As I slowed down he started to overtke me on the left and ran out of road as I pulled over. He had plenty of room to move out and pass on the right. He stopped as I stopped and started physically beating into the side of my car with his hands and feet calling out "you tried to kill me you c...". A passing policeman showed him the error of his ways. He had been behind the cyclist and witnessed the whole thing. He finished up paying for a new door panel for me. He was not prosecuted for a traffic offence, but for wilful damage to property or something similar. Police said I had done nothing wrong but that technically the way the law is written he could overtake on the left so they knew they would not be able to prosecute him for a traffic offence because of that stupid law.

So what you're saying here Doug is that you passed a bike and then thinking you were safely past him indicated to turn left and you had misjudged the distance or his speed and nearly hit them? I've ended up on the bonnet of a car twice for being in this exact same scenario and every time the driver thinks that I was the one at fault even though the car never even came close to fully passing me let alone safely clearing me and then turning.

I acknowledge that there are some terrible cyclists on the road and I'm the first to have a go at them on my bike, but I've also found that these people don't usually see themselves as cyclists. There needs to be more awareness & education for both cyclists & drivers but the solution is simple... be tolerant of each other.

[Big Shed]

Corbs, not to belabour a point but:

1 That report refers to 5 years ago, there has been a dramatic increase in cyclists on our roads since then and I would say those figures would be higher today. But even 6.9% of cyclists running red lights is on the high side, you seem to think it is acceptable?

2 Roads are paid for out of general revenue, yes, where do registration fees go ? General revenue. Semantics surely?

3 TAC, yes it pays for people injured in traffic accidents, paid for by motorists - not cyclists. Cyclists don't get injured in traffic accidents?

4 Number plates - it would certainly be handy to identify an offending cyclist from a video taken with my dash mounted GoPro and hand it to police. At the moment all that will show is Lycra.

Anyway, if you want to see cyclists misbehaving in a large group, go to Beach Rd any Sunday morning.

As I said, I am not anti-cyclist, I am one myself, just like to see cyclists being held accountable and contribute to "General Revenue".:)

[dabbler]

So what you're saying here Doug is that you passed a bike and then thinking you were safely past him indicated to turn left and you had misjudged the distance or his speed and nearly hit them? I've ended up on the bonnet of a car twice for being in this exact same scenario and every time the driver thinks that I was the one at fault even though the car never even came close to fully passing me let alone safely clearing me and then turning.


I think every bike rider has had this happen at least once and while I've never seen the bonnet of a car while airborne, I can tell you the boot looks pretty ordinary from overhead! Taxi boot advertising is particularly painful. I've even been accused on exceeding the speed limit, " 'cos I wouldn't have hit you if you were travelling at legal speed...". Hopefully that police officer learnt from the experience (yes it was a cop car). That particular accident and subsequent comment was witnessed by an ambo outside the Mt Gravatt ambo station but luckily I didn't even get a scratch that time.

Far too few drivers realise the speeds that many bike riders can achieve. I've never been on a gentle side-by-side ride on a public road.

[doug3030]

So what you're saying here Doug is that you passed a bike and then thinking you were safely past him indicated to turn left and you had misjudged the distance or his speed and nearly hit them?

Not at all but thats the response I have come to expect from the "cyclist is always in the right camp".

As the Police officer who witnessed the event said to the cyclist at the scene: "He was well in front and had indicated clearly that he was pulling over and he was less than a metre from the kerb when you cut in inside him. What the hell were you thinking?".



Corbs, I have no reason to believe that you are anything other than and exemplary and safe cyclist. I am not against cyclists. I have been one and I know how it feels when your handlebars get clipped by a bus and the only place to go to avoid it is to hit the kerb.

Not all cyclists ride safely. I see examples every day, just as i see stupid examples of driving cars every day. If we want our roads to be safer for EVERYONE, we need the police to enforce the rules that they should be enforcing.

A police operation targetting speed or drink driving will result in thousands of dollars in revenue every day with virtually no downtime for administration and court appearances. A similar sized operation against other offences will not render the same volume of revenue and for every day on the road they would have several days off the road investigating and compiling evidence and attending court. They have their revenue targets to make so they go for the easy targets, not the ones who are causing the accidents.

Just before Christmas I was booked by a speed camera for doing 52km/hr in a 50 zone. $180 thanks very much. After this I put my GPS in the car and found out that when the GPS reads my speed as 52, my speedo reads just under 47. I researched and have found that apparently the speedo is within the legal limits allowed. However the governments legisaltion for speeding fines requires a far lower tolerance for error than the legal requirements for accuracy of a speedo fitted to a vehicle under Australian standards. If that does not prove that its all about fundraising not safety then I dont know what does.

Cheers

Doug

[corbs]

1 That report refers to 5 years ago, there has been a dramatic increase in cyclists on our roads since then and I would say those figures would be higher today. But even 6.9% of cyclists running red lights is on the high side, you seem to think it is acceptable?

I don't think the age of the study is really relevant, the figures are similar to those of other studies conducted around the world. I think the rate of cyclists running red lights in the UK was a little higher than this study. You may say those figures would be higher, I would say those figures would be lower... at the end of the day both are just opinions until proven otherwise. I will continue to use the latest report figures until a new study is conducted.


2 Roads are paid for out of general revenue, yes, where do registration fees go ? General revenue. Semantics surely?

A car registration in Victoria is $696.50, of this $232.30 is the registration fee (not general revenue, $422 is the TAC (not general revenue & $42.20 is the insurance duty (not general revenue). You would be better of using that some of your fuel excise goes to general revenue which pays for roads but cyclists don't use fuel so is really a neither here nor there point.


3 TAC, yes it pays for people injured in traffic accidents, paid for by motorists - not cyclists. Cyclists don't get injured in traffic accidents?

To be honest, I don't know that much about the TAC. It appears to be a Victorian charge and I'm in NSW. Maybe next time I get doored by a car and get taken to the hospital in an ambulance and do over $1000 worth of damage to my bike I should do it in Victoria :-


4 Number plates - it would certainly be handy to identify an offending cyclist from a video taken with my dash mounted GoPro and hand it to police. At the moment all that will show is Lycra.

Again, how many car registration numbers have you passed onto the police that have been followed up?


Anyway, if you want to see cyclists misbehaving in a large group, go to Beach Rd any Sunday morning.

As I said, I am not anti-cyclist, I am one myself, just like to see cyclists being held accountable and contribute to "General Revenue".:)

I've ridden Beach Rd on a Sunday morning, I've seen terrible groups and I've seen exceptional groups. To tar all cyclist with the one brush is like saying I've seen terrible drivers therefore all drivers are terrible. Anyone who drives on Beach Rd on a Sunday morning knows exactly what they're going to get, there have also been some pretty aggressive drivers along that road as well. Recently there was a tradie who was hitting cyclists with lumps of wood as he drove past them down there.

At the end of the day, this thread is about making cyclists safer on the road and it's posted in a cycling area of the forums. The people I want to see held accountable are the people like driver of the cement truck who hit and killed Richard Pollett and was acquitted on the defence that he thought there was enough room. If you're driving a car and hit another car the defence of "I thought there was enough room" would be laughed at so why is it acceptable for the driver of 35 tonne truck hitting an 80kg rider??

[Trav]

I'm not going buy into this debate in a big way, but some things I can't let pass without comment. For the record, I'm not, nor have I ever been, a cyclist.

Cyclists are part of our community and will continue to be. And while they remain vulnerable to injury and death on our roads, they need to be protected. A rule such as this seems very sensible to me with very little downside for everyone else.

Bike registration seems to me like a crazy idea. I've got a 5 year old with a bike - should that be registered? And I've got a bike, but I hardly use it. Should that be registered? We are the second fattest country int he world - surely we should be doing more to encourage exercise, not making it harder.

And finally, Doug, I sympathise with the frustration of getting a speeding ticket. I remember getting one from a speeding camera for doing 50 in an area marked as 40 for roadworks. Never ind that there wasn't a workman for 5ks and apart from the odd witches hat, not a single sign of roadworks for ages. Frustrating.

But to suggest that speed cameras don't work is crazy. I don't know the stats but I've clearly noticed a significant slowdown of speeds here in Canberra and on a recent driving trip to Brisbane. I remember 3 kids getting killed in a crash caused by excess speed on Hindmarsh drive in Canberra maybe a decade ago. A point to point camera now means that everyone does 80, not 180, on that road now.

Trav

[Sir Stinkalot]

.... I would also like to see some laws tell cyclists what they can and can't do on our roads. (we could even make it compulsory for cyclists to obey traffic light - now there is a novel idea!). To back up those laws and make sure that both police and ordinary citizens can report misbehaving cyclists (yes there are some believe it or not!) I would like to see number plates introduced for bicycles, as well as a registration fee to pay for building and maintaing bike paths. This registration fee would include the TAC charge that motorists pay.

What isn't clear about the laws that cyclists need to obey? Yes some cyclists do not follow the laws, but you would have rocks in your head if you thought every car driver obeyed every law.

Do you really think that number plates on bikes will do anything to assist in enforcing laws for cyclists? There are plenty of examples on cycling forums that have presented clear video evidence of dangerous driving by motorists to the police, endangering a life, and they are simply flogged off with no action taken. This has forced cyclists to take the evidence further up the chain to have action taken and even then it is just a throw away warning to the motorist in most cases. A motorist rocking up to a police station with a rego number of a bike, or even video evidence, running a light will not be taken seriously by police.

Please don't get me wrong. As a cycling commuter to work it drives me crazy seeing how some cyclists behave, although I see my fair share of motorists that I also shake my head at. My attitude on the bike is to behave as I would if I was in a car. I did laugh the other day (whilst in my car) when I watched a cyclist run through a red light, shortly after there was another, and then just following that, a police car that pulled the second one over. It really is up to the police to enforce the road rules as they happen. I am sure that whenever you pass a police car that has pulled somebody over it makes you slow down a little - unfortunately there are not enough police on the road in a highly visible presence enforcing the laws - too often it is left to a speed camera to deliver the wake up a few weeks later (please note I have never had a speeding fine!).

Registration fees - where does it stop. Do children need to be registered? Is the aim to push cyclists back into cars? Is it a good idea to discourage alternative forms of transport (not only good for the environment but also the waist line). Again as a commuter I can clearly see evidence each morning of the benefit of having more people cycling to and from work especially. It would be good to have a drive to work day once year to show the impact on traffic of each bicycle commuter sitting alone in their car instead of taking up much less room on the road.

[Big Shed]

Well it appears I have stirred up some angst by suggesting that cyclists should no longer be anonymous on our roads:)

Just imagine if 6.9% of motorists ran a red light every day, we would wipe out Australia's deficit in a month:2tsup:

Anyway, I decided to ask Mr Google about bike regsitration and one of the first hits that came up was this one, guess I am not alone:no:

Cycle safe: Bike registration mooted as way to rein in riders - National - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11185830)

[Sir Stinkalot]

Personally I couldn't care less if I needed to have a number plate of not when on the bike ..... but I do question the use. As far as I am aware there is nowhere in the world that registers bicycles (happy to be proven wrong).

The question still remains - apart from making motorists feel all warm and fuzzy that they can identify a cyclist what is the purpose? It is quite clear that police don't care if they are provided registration details or even video evidence of an unlawful action on the road - so why would a rego number make this any different.

"Just imagine if 6.9% of motorists ran a red light every day, we would wipe out Australia's deficit in a month" - if the police are around to enforce the issue then they can capture motorists and cyclists - it will do very little to Australia's deficit if you turn up at your local police station with your own evidence.

Obviously this tread has moved more than 1m from the original intent and is basically turning into the quality of arguments seen in the trashy News Limited online comments as soon as an article about cycling is posted.

[corbs]

Anyway, I decided to ask Mr Google about bike regsitration and one of the first hits that came up was this one, guess I am not alone:no:

Cycle safe: Bike registration mooted as way to rein in riders - National - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11185830)

Did you read the article?


A bus union leader is leading calls for a bicycle registration scheme to discourage riders from running red lights and pedestrian crossings. But the push has failed to win support from the Automobile Association and Government

A bus union leader wants it but an Automobile Association and the Government didn't support it.

[Big Shed]

Yes corbs, I did, my only comment was that I wasn't alone in seeing some merit in it.

I certainly see some merit in bikes beig identifiable, I am firmly convinced that the minority of cyclists that misbehave on our roads do so partly because they know they are anonymous.

Sir Stinkalot, I don't think this has moved that far from the original intent of the thread, being improving cyclist safety - which has to be a 2 way street. Cyclists also have to take responsibility for their behaviour on our roads, not just put the onus on the motorist to ensure that a cyclist is safe.

[corbs]

... As far as I am aware there is nowhere in the world that registers bicycles (happy to be proven wrong)....

SS, I think there are a couple of Euro countries that have a bike registration schemes but none are used to identify cyclists on the road. They're all used to identify stolen bikes.

[doug3030]

It would be good to have a drive to work day once year to show the impact on traffic of each bicycle commuter sitting alone in their car instead of taking up much less room on the road.

I really dont think it would make a real lot of difference on thee day. By comparison, there are really not a lot of them. It might look like a lot on the bikeways sometimes but as a percentage of the total number of vehicles it really isnt that high. Considering that they pay no registration or excise on fuel like other road users there seems to be a disproportionate amount of public funding spent on infrastructure just for them. However I do not mind this at all. In fact I regard it as money well spent. There are many minority groups who are either over-funded or underfunded. Some I agree with some I dont.

I used to enjoy cycling to work when I was in the Army in Canberra. It kept me fit, which was a requirement of the service, by utilizing the time I could have been commuting in a car plus a little bit more. It was good regular exercise and I used to have a number of routes to choose either on the roads or the bikeways either side of the lake depending on how much time I had or the prevailing weather conditions.

If I wanted a longer ride there were groups of cyclists who rode around Canberra in the early mornings that you could join up with and ride for a couple of hours at a fairly brisk pace if you wanted to. But the thing is, on Drive to Work Day, all these cyclists who are on the road for a couple of hours will get in their cars and drive there in 15 or 20 minutes and not take the scenic route. They will also keep up with the rest of the traffic.

I think it is great that some people choose to ride. It is their choice. They gain heath benefits for sure and they also have a minor impact on the traffic congestion and their carbon footprint. But the rest of us dont owe them a living for doing it. We are already subsidizing them.

But as to making the roads safer for cyclists and motorists, as I have already said, the laws are already there, and flaunted by and large by both sides, because our state governments are using our police forces to collect revenue to targets instead of making our roads safer. The wrong laws are being enforced.

When police commissioners are not appointed by governments and answerable to them for fundraising but are elected by the community and judged by their ability to make the roads safer for all with no revenue raising targets then things may get better.

Cheers

Doug

[Sir Stinkalot]

I certainly see some merit in bikes beig identifiable, I am firmly convinced that the minority of cyclists that misbehave on our roads do so partly because they know they are anonymous.

As a cycling commuter I put a call in for all pedestrians to wear name badges (I think registration would simply strip one of their identity). Far too often do I see pedestrians walking along the dedicated bicycle path section of the split pedestrian/bike lane. Whilst me reporting the names to the police may not do anything I am sure the name badges will make those pesky pedestrians think twice.

Ok so that was a cheeky shot - but really misbehaving cyclists, like motorists will be more aware of their actions if laws are enforced on the spot. Again there is limited evidence of police acting on any evidence that they did not witness on the spot.

Just out of interest this is one of the recommended articles from the New Zealand Herald that was linked to previously:
Cycle safe: Seeing red - who's running the lights at danger spots - National - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11185290)

Granted that there are still far too many cyclists running red lights it is also quite clear that even motorists with registration also do the wrong thing .

[corbs]

I will try to bring this back on track... the original intention of this thread was to let people know how to support the campaign to legislate for minimum safe distances for drivers when passing cyclists. If you support this then please complete the petition and send it to the address at the bottom of the page. Also please use the link and send your local MP a pre-formatted email asking for their support.

If you do not support safe passing distances please don't bother with the petition, don't send an email to your local MP and if you're driving past me please give me room. I will give you a nice big wave and a smile if you do.

300708

[Sir Stinkalot]

I really dont think it would make a real lot of difference on thee day. By comparison, there are really not a lot of them. It might look like a lot on the bikeways sometimes but as a percentage of the total number of vehicles it really isnt that high.

I agree that there are some places that the impact will be felt and others not so much. Having previously spent many years travelling from Lara to Melbourne every day the number of commuting cyclists would be minimal.

I now cycle through Adelaide CBD daily and as you would expect the proportion of cyclists is much greater. On Monday I took the car in to work as it was available and it was going to be hot. Despite it being a relatively light traffic day (with school holidays still on and many offices still closed) there was still the situation where it was not possible to cross a number of intersections despite the lights being green as the other side was already blocked with traffic. Whilst waiting in the traffic there were numerous cyclists going past in the bus/bike lane. If each of these were also in a car it would have made it even harder to cross intersections - and this is in Adelaide where traffic is relatively light.

For the record it took longer to get home in the car than it does on the bike!

[Big Shed]

Granted that there are still far too many cyclists running red lights it is also quite clear that even motorists with registration also do the wrong thing .

Yes indeed, but the motorist in most cases gets photographed (remember that number plate?) and gets a nice little "Please pay" letter, and he gets some demerit points.

Cyclists can do this ad infinitum and only get caught if there is a cop nearby that can be bothered to book him.

Oh and on the point of there not being any countries that have a registration/number plate requirement for bicycles, if we used that argument then Australia wouldn't have compulsory bike helmet laws. Along with NZ it is the only country (as against state) that has this ridiculous law. The Netherlands with more cyclists than any other country in the world hasn't seen the need for such a stupid law (or bicycle number plates I have to say :D)
Anyway, Queensland may see the light on this one. Sorry, I digress.:B

[Sir Stinkalot]

I perhaps so let this thread go and give some space to others ....... but :U

I would think that red light cameras at traffic lights are the exception rather than the rule so the proportion of cyclists that would be caught would be minimal. Lights with cameras are also generally on dangerous or busy roads which would tend to further reduce the number of cyclists running the red in those situations. Whilst I think cyclists could trigger red lights, would the camera be of high enough resolution to read what would have to be a very small number plate to fit on a bike. Again I am against running red lights, but just trying to work out what benefit registration would have.

Personally I don't mind compulsory helmets. Perhaps the Netherlands do not need the law as the motorists aren't as possessive of their bit of the road that they are convinced only gets made and maintained through registration fees that only they pay :p

[doug3030]

[QUOTE=corbs;1736758]I will try to bring this back on track... the original intention of this thread was to let people know how to support the campaign to legislate for minimum safe distances for drivers when passing cyclists. If you support this then please complete the petition and send it to the address at the bottom of the page. Also please use the link and send your local MP a pre-formatted email asking for their support.[QUOTE]

Corbs, Mate... I support it in principal, but I see little point in supporting it in practice. People always flaunt the laws that arent enforced. And this would just be another one of them. For that matter they flaunt the laws that ARE enforced. Thats where the revenue comes from to keep our state governments in money to waste on stupid projects.

If you really want to make a difference, get a petition going to separate law enforcement from state fund raising and concentrate on road safety instead.

I will download it and sign it and pass it on to the local MP just in case it makes a difference, but if it is introduced it will be just another law that everyone ignores because the cops wont allocate resources to enforce it.

Cheers

Doug

[Evanism]

There is no reasonable ground to negotiate with belligerent motorists.

The only consideration is monetary: Fiscal, monertary and imprisonment.

Cameras, both front and back, on every bike and sue every motorist, viciously, thoroughly and vexatiously.

Bleed those who think it is their right to maim and kill. Take off them their houses, their pensions, their superannuation. Bleed them until they beg the magistrate for mercy. Bankrupt them, every one, every time.

The arrogant assholes who think its ok to run down a cyclist? Pay over. Everything. All of it. Every scrap for the rest of your life. Every asset, every moment paying it back.

Your arguments are moot in front of a jury.

The tide is turning and you are in the wrong.

Doubt me? Try running someone down with a camera.

[corbs]

Corbs, Mate... I support it in principal, but I see little point in supporting it in practice. People always flaunt the laws that arent enforced. And this would just be another one of them. For that matter they flaunt the laws that ARE enforced. Thats where the revenue comes from to keep our state governments in money to waste on stupid projects.

If you really want to make a difference, get a petition going to separate law enforcement from state fund raising and concentrate on road safety instead.

I will download it and sign it and pass it on to the local MP just in case it makes a difference, but if it is introduced it will be just another law that everyone ignores because the cops wont allocate resources to enforce it.

Cheers

Doug

Doug, this thread isn't about law enforcement, it's about legislating for safe distances for drivers when passing bikes. Hopefully the law won't need to be enforced but something needs to be done now.

If you want to make a difference, then you get the petition going to separate law enforcement from state fund raising and concentrate on road safety instead. This thread isn't about that, if you want a thread about it then start it in an appropriate location.