Blast gate position and three 4" outlets from one 6"

[ozhunter]

Hello

Just wanted to confirm my thoughts on blast gate positioning is correct

302062

I will cap the end of the run after the bandsaw but wanted to put the gates in for future expansion.

Does anyone have patterns or advice for a dummy on getting three 4" outlets from one 6". I read somewhere to use a couple of WYE's and other fittings, but it looks messy and fairly expensive. I was thinking of making something, but can't work out how to make the cuts to make it. Along the lines of this
302068

Thanks

[John Samuel]

Did a similar thing for my old 14 inch bandsaw.

The 6 inch pipe was positioned over the 4 inch port in the back of the cabinet. Then two new 4 inch outlets were created in the sides of the six inch pipe.

First, two pieces of four inch pipe were cut to 45 degrees. I thermo-moulded a flange on the angled ends (dip into hot oil and push down onto a cutting board). Then two undersized holes were cut into the six inch pipe with a jigsaw. The edges of these holes were heated with a heat gun. Once the pipe was soft, the new 4 inch port was pushed through the hot hole from the inside. Once the new 4 inch port was in position and I was happy the inside of the pipe was reasonably smooth the pipe was cooled with water. Finally, the new 4 inch port was held in place with silicone and four short self tappers.

Using this approach you can put the 4 inch ports wherever you want them.

[BobL]

I used a 150 to 100 mm Y. I used a "Level Inverter" to convert the 150 mm to 100mm, and cut a hole in the Y and welded a third 100 mm PVC arm to it.
I just winged the cutting but there are patterns and programs out there that will do this precisely if you wish.
.http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f200/187439d1320976373-bobls-dusty-setup-modified-y.jpg

[John Samuel]

I used a 150 to 100 mm Y. I used a "Level Inverter" to convert the 150 mm to 100mm, and cut a hole in the Y and welded a third 100 mm PVC arm to it.
I just winged the cutting but there are patterns and programs out there that will do this precisely if you wish.
.
Good grief ... plastic welding.

Haven't done that since I was a boy apprentice ... which was not recently.

[ronboult]

Hi BobL
What is a "Level Inverter" and where do you get them?
are they a standard plumbing fitting?
Do they come in other sizes e.g. 150 to 125mm?
Ron

[BobL]

Hi BobL
What is a "Level Inverter" and where do you get them?
are they a standard plumbing fitting?
Do they come in other sizes e.g. 150 to 125mm?
Ron

Level inverters are another name for a non-symmetrical "reducer" used in standard storm water and Sewage (DWV) fittings
This is what they look like
http://www.gtp.com.au/irrigationperth/images/stormwater-3_m.jpg
Here is the typical ranges of sizes
STORMWATER FITTINGS - LEVEL INVERT - Perth Irrigation - Retic Fittings , Plumbing Fittings, Reticulation Supplies, Western Australia (http://www.perthirrigation.com.au/listProduct/STORMWATER+FITTINGS/LEVEL+INVERT)

125 mm is non standard for these pipe so I doubt that they are available in this size.

[ronboult]

Thanks BobL

I had guessed that 150 to 125 was a no goer.
I have also tried to get a 150 Y with a 125 or 100 side arm with no luck. Total Eden does not seem to stock them.
Can you remember where you bought yours?
Thanks
Ron

[BobL]

Good grief ... plastic welding.
Haven't done that since I was a boy apprentice ... which was not recently.

My first task in the first job I had as a research scientist was to fit out a small demountable as an ultra clean laboratory.
The basic structure was a 3 x 6 m HD demountable with a 1 m wide airlock at one end making the inside of the lab 5 x 3 m
It arrived with no plumbing and a breaker box with 2 breakers (light and power).
When I finished with it, it had 13 breakers (one for lighting and 1 for each of 4 fans, and the rest were independent power circuits)
It had "all plastic" plumbing - 3 PVC sinks, 1200 CFM external air exchange and 1600 CFM internal air filtration.
We purified all our own water and all sorts of nasty acids by distillation in Telfon stills in a chamber at one end of the lab which was vented to the outside.
Entry required full length lab coat, bootees or shoe exchange, hair cover and double layer plastic gloves.
Typically one would spend anywhere from about 15 minutes to 1-2 hours inside at any one time.

Here are a couple of shots of the outside.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=302121&stc=1
The grey box adjacent to the entry was the battery backup for one of the fans to hold a slight overpressure to the lab to enable us to get there to fire up a genset we had readily available in an adjacent building.
What ever the temperature was outside it was some 8-10º warmer inside so when it was 40º outside it was 50º inside and we simply could not work for more than about 15 minutes at one time and we often worked in underwear under our lab coats.
Eventually we had the big 5kW Aircon fitted which knocked 8-10º off the outside temp.Still very warm but not life threatening.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=302122&stc=1
The little window at the end of the building was a view port through to the acid distillation units so we could see how far along the distillation was without having to go inside. Letting the stills run dry meant a major clean up of the still and starting all over again.

This is what it looked like from the inside.
Most of the lab wear (beakers and bottles) you see are telfon (PTFE or PFA)
All that plastic was welded by yours truly.
It took me 10 months at half time to fit it out and then strip it out and paint it.
It had 7 coats of 2 pack epoxy hi-build white. We used to joke that the plywood could be eaten away by

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=302123&stc=1
The fume hood at the far end was were most samples were processed.
The Polypropylene walls are false and act as return ducts to recycle the air back to the 99.997% efficient ceiling mounted HEPA filters .
These boxes are made of HDPE - benches and work surfaces were lined with clear teflon film and then cling wrap.
I used 6" black PP pressure pipe for ducting because PVC was deemed too dirty to carry clean air - all the ducting is hidden inside the plastic boxes.
The planned lifetime of the lab was 5 years and it was finally shut down - still operating as intended - after 17 years.
After building this lab I used it for 2 years before moving to the US where I worked in a similar but much bigger lab.

[BobL]

Thanks BobL

I had guessed that 150 to 125 was a no goer.
I have also tried to get a 150 Y with a 125 or 100 side arm with no luck. Total Eden does not seem to stock them.
Can you remember where you bought yours?
Thanks
Ron

I got mine from that website in my post above - fortunately for me the physical shop front is about 20 minutes from my place.

[shedbound]

At the risk off being shot down, here is a temporary setup I use until I can afford to upgrade machine ports to 6". It allows me to run 3x4" hoses to my bandsaw, it is the 3 way adapter off the 3hp carbatec DE. I used a stud adhesive bucket with the bottom removed to adapt from the odd sized approx 8" DE inlet down to 6". By the way the saw dust is from being lazy and not using the DE for a couple of cuts. Ignore the location of my blast gates I didnt want to cut up my 4" flex for a temporary setup so i just used the lengths I had
302124302125
regards
joel

[BobL]

At the risk off being shot down, here is a temporary setup I use until I can afford to upgrade machine ports to 6". It allows me to run 3x4" hoses to my bandsaw, it is the 3 way adapter off the 3hp carbatec DE. . . . .

Looks a good temporary fix to me. :2tsup:

The main problem with those very short adapters (and many like them that are included on the 2 and 3HP DCs are that they are too angled and the incoming air stream from each inlet will collide each other and create excessive turbulence and reduce the flow.
Slightly better are these 4 way adapters as the entries are less steep but even these have problems as they like the others are often located way too close to the impeller inlet.
302126
If you can afford it, it is better to use a couple of 150-100 Y's in series.

[ronboult]

Hi BobL
The Perth plumbing store had what I require plus a heap of irrigation fittings I was after. Cheap postage to Brisbane as well
Many thanks for the heads up
Ron

[ronboult]

Hi ozhunter
Looking at your first diagram I think the first two blast gates in the main line are not required. Blast gates on each branch should serve your purpose
Ron

[BobL]

Hi ozhunter
Looking at your first diagram I think the first two blast gates in the main line are not required. Blast gates on each branch should serve your purpose
Ron

Correct

[ozhunter]

Thanks for the comments chaps. If I can get the Wye with the 4" outlet I'll have a go at "winging" the cuts to put another 4" in.

Blast gate comments received and understood.

You had a very interesting and exacting career Bob.

Regards

[ronboult]

Hi again ozhunter
With your three 4" outlets from the 6" main do you expect to run them all at once for one machine like John

If so then three pipes joining at a single point results in more tubulence.
you might be better with two 6,6,4 y,s in series. I just bought some of these reducer Y's at the Perth plumbing shop that Bobl uses. Pretty cheap for Y &postage
Ron

[FenceFurniture]

Reece Plumbing is my NSW source of DE plastic bits. and they have Level Inverters (or summink that looks like them).

[BobL]

Thanks for the comments chaps. If I can get the Wye with the 4" outlet I'll have a go at "winging" the cuts to put another 4" in.

Some pointers that might help.
Firstly I cut a length of about 300 mm of 100 duct with a 45º cut on one end - it's bestiof this is longer rather than shorter as you can always cut a bit off later if it is too long.
(there are patterns out there that will do this first up if you want to look for them)
Then I cut bits off around the 45º to help it sit better flush up against the uncut 6" Y.
Final flushing up was down with a belt sander - that way you can get the whole thing nice and flush.
Then holding the cut 100 mm piece up against the 6" Y about where you want it to go I traced around the 100 mm pipe with a marking pen.
Then I cut out the hole a couple of mm inside the line - ideally you need the edge of the hole to curl a tinse outwards for a nice tight fit.
Use a hot air gun to soften up the edges of the hole and work the edge upwards just enough for the 100 mm pipe to go into the hole. If you hit the right temperature the heated edges will be semi-elastic and hold the 100 mm ducting in place.
Then I used PVC strips to plastic weld the 100 mm in place. Unless you have some experience iIt's a lot easier to use something like a hot glue gum.


You had a very interesting and exacting career Bob.
Regards
Parts of it were very interesting and suited my interests but eventually I found myself doing oo much administration and then found it increasingly harder to back out.

[ozhunter]

Hi again ozhunter
With your three 4" outlets from the 6" main do you expect to run them all at once for one machine like John

If so then three pipes joining at a single point results in more tubulence.
you might be better with two 6,6,4 y,s in series. I just bought some of these reducer Y's at the Perth plumbing shop that Bobl uses. Pretty cheap for Y &postage
Ron

Ron

Yes they are going to be going at once off a bandsaw. What I can procure will probably dictate what I use, I saw a similar thing elsewhere on the forum about using wye's in series. Although I can reuse all the bits I'm buying now, my set up is only a semi-permanent-temporary setup, as we are going to start building a new hacienda later this year.

What options does a mug punter that doesn't have access to a BobL, do to see what air speeds etc I'm getting?

Regards

[pjt]

A cheap indication of airflow is a homemade manometer and then reference to a chart, do a search for manometer in this forum should turn up something.


Pete