saw set marking saw plate

[shedbound]

Hi everyone, just wondering how you knowledgeable folk stop the set marking the saw plate, do you use tape? or will this affect the end result I imagine general sticky tape would be less compressible than masking tape.:?
cheers
joel

[RayG]

Hi everyone, just wondering how you knowledgeable folk stop the set marking the saw plate, do you use tape? or will this affect the end result I imagine general sticky tape would be less compressible than masking tape.:?
cheers
joel

Never noticed, I always mark with a texta so as to remember which tooth.. Can you take a picture of the marking you are thinking of.

Ray

[shedbound]

Hi Ray, I'm referring the the sm,all scratches left from the set I did clean the faces of the clamping part with some W&D paper but didn't seem to make in difference, I was wondering whether taping the saw plate might help or hinder.


302423
cheers
Joel

[DSEL74]

I use masking tape on the plate or jaws of the saw vise to stop scratching, can't say i have notice the set leaving any marks.

I was going to suggest a light sand but you seem to have already done that…

What type of saw set do you have??
Is it possible you are levering the saw set as you squeeze it??

[Heavansabove]

What saw set are you using? Those marks seem a long way down the saw plate. Can you check whether the clamping plate is flat against the saw? Never seen this before

[planemaker]

Hi Joel. The markings to the saw plate are most unusual. I can only assume its resulted from you trying to apply too much force with the tool. On a scale of 1(L) to 10(H), the correct pressure to apply with the setting tool would be at a 3 to 4 max. IMO.

Stewie;

[Simplicity]

Just my humble opinion ,but those marks look like those found from the using a metal engineers vice .
Are you a saw vice ?
Or just an engineers vice ?


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[DSEL74]

From the positioning I don't think it is coming from the hammer or anvil but from the frame of the saw set. Which Is why I'm wondering wht make/brand/design saw set he is using.

Or like Planemaker said he is applying to much force and as a result scrubbing the frame. There is a uniformity to the markings so I don't think it would be from the vice.

[Simplicity]

I could be wrong second time this year lol
But they look like the diamond pattern on the inside face of metal working vice jaw
And being consistent
But like I said could be wrong lol


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[shedbound]

Hi guys, Definitely not from being in vice jaws, I have been using an eclipse No 77, I maybe being a little heavy handed I'll try a lighter touch next time. I like the idea of tape on set,

[RayG]

Hi guys, Definitely not from being in vice jaws, I have been using an eclipse No 77, I maybe being a little heavy handed I'll try a lighter touch next time. I like the idea of tape on set,

If it is the sawset, just a bit of masking tape will stop the problem until you figure out exactly why it's happening.

You don't generally need a lot of set, well, unless it's a deep cut in green timber or something similar, the hard part of setting is consistency, there is a trick you can use, and that is to fold a piece of paper over the tooth line, and clamp it up in a smooth jawed vise, if you don't have a smooth jawed vise, you can use some heavy steel blocks either side and a normal vise.

What happens is the teeth cut into the paper a little, and you end up with nice evenly set teeth.

Ray

[Heavansabove]

The marks look nothing like an impression the Eclipse 77 clamp might make, and the marks seem too far down the saw plate. I don't have the Eclipse set for large saws, but even that is unlikely to be this big. Can we have a picture of the saw set? What vice were you using to hold the saw?

Cheers
Peter

[Ron Bontz]

Just a foot note. I use the E 77 as well as the Somax/ great neck versions. And also the 42x. I have noticed that the saw filings from jointing the teeth can sometimes get in/on the saw sets or vise leaving marks similar. I clean my saw sets and blow off the filings from the plate or gullets prior to setting the teeth. It helps considerably. I don't like using tape, because tape compresses and the set may not be as consistent. Lastly, after I have the teeth sharpened I clean the plate with one of those 6" x 9" aluminum oxide scotch brite pads. Maroon one usually. Seems to do the trick for me.

[RayG]

Hi Ron,

This problem is a bit stranger than that.. the marks aren't on the teeth, they are further away on the saw plate... any ideas as to what could cause that?

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f278/302423d1391052087-saw-set-marking-saw-plate-sam_0882.jpg

Ray

[shedbound]

Here's a few pics of the culprit, I have 2 other No77's but this is the only one with a fine enough hammer to do this saw which is 16tpi(3x #77's each different:?). I also have a Somax #250 which I think will do the job but haven't yet tried it. Looking closely at the set in question the clamp doesn;t seem to travel parallel to each face but corrects itself as the hammer starts to engage. I dont think this is an issue, but I will pull it apart again and redress the face of the clamp
302512You may be able to see a small amount of daylight between the two faces on the upper edge, this corrects itself as pressure is applied.
The saw vice is just a knock-together but does the job.

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Appreciate the feedback
regards
Joel

[DSEL74]

Joel,

Yes the Eclipse no 77 has been quite varied over the years in terms of hammer size and anvil as wells the quality of the bevel on the anvil. If the somax is blue it should be fine for your saw. The gold one has a thicker hammer.


The saw vice is just a knock-together but does the job.
Looks pretty good to me, just make sure none of the fillings from cutting the teeth get embedded into the jaws.


Could we get you to take one more photo with the sawplate in the saw set so we can see where the marks line up with the saw set?

If you have any offcuts of the saw plate it would also be interesting to know which side of the set is creating the marks. Obviously as you turn the plate over to set every second tooth the opposite way your now marking both side of the plate.

[DSEL74]

I think it may be coming from your anvil, in conjunction with the hammer being angled wrong to my reasoning. The tip of the hammer should be the first to strike. The air gap in yours looks like the bottom of the hammer is closing before you get to the tip. I think I'm right with out going and getting my set to compare.
Different saw set but on the lower image you can see what I am meaning about the angle of the tip of the hammer.
http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/mechanics/How-To/images/Filing-And-Setting-Saws-Part-4-321.jpg

[pmcgee]

D, I think it's the clamp contacting unevenly, not the hammer.
I'm assuming that in the process of rotating into parallel with the plate, it might drag the plate down a little or - I think probably this one - is scratching the plate as it realigns(???).
Cheers,
Paul

[shedbound]

D, I think it's the clamp contacting unevenly, not the hammer.
I'm assuming that in the process of rotating into parallel with the plate, it might drag the plate down a little or - I think probably this one - is scratching the plate as it realigns(???).
Cheers,
Paul
I think Paul may be spot on I never thought of it "pulling" the plate

Joel,

Yes the Eclipse no 77 has been quite varied over the years in terms of hammer size and anvil as wells the quality of the bevel on the anvil. If the somax is blue it should be fine for your saw. The gold one has a thicker hammer.


Looks pretty good to me, just make sure none of the fillings from cutting the teeth get embedded into the jaws.


Could we get you to take one more photo with the sawplate in the saw set so we can see where the marks line up with the saw set?

If you have any offcuts of the saw plate it would also be interesting to know which side of the set is creating the marks. Obviously as you turn the plate over to set every second tooth the opposite way your now marking both side of the plate.
I'll take another pic tomorrow Dale, but i'm pretty sure the marks are from the clamp
thanks for the replies

[Ron Bontz]

I was just using the 77 style saw set last night. Great neck version, as I couldn't locate the real E 77. I was not at my shop. So I didn't have my usual air gun or brush with me to blow off the filings from jointing. Guess what I saw on the back side of the plate, anvil side. ? :) Little swirl like marks. When you compress the saw set your hand as well as the saw set moves slightly. The marks were from the lower part of the anvil. Either way, the scotch brite pads would take care of it. A deburring wheel may be just a little extreme for those superficial scratches. But one can use what they have available. Best wishes.

[DSEL74]

Thanks Ron, Seems like Joel you either have some pitting, burrs or rust on your anvil or you still had some fillings on the saw plate causing your woes.

If you wanted to use masking tape to protect from marks I don't think it would affect the setting of the saw and if it did it would still be even an regular, or as Ron said it is easy to clean up with a bit of scotchbrite, maybe steelwool or fine emery would do the same.

[pedder]

I protect the bade with one layer of Tesafilm - German film tape. When I stone the saw after setting, I get a set of exact 2 layer tesafilm. Perfect for dovetail - carcass saws. 4 layers for the big tenon saws.

Cheers
Pedder

[DSEL74]

http://www.elcompas.com/6618-4089-thickbox/lote-retractilado-de-8-cintas-adhesivas-tesa-film-33-x-19-mm.jpghttps://www.labfriend.com.au/content/images/thumbs/0598307.jpeg

[Ron Bontz]

I'll have to see if I can get that in the US. I have never seen it. Thanks, Pedder.

[shedbound]

Sorry I havn't got around to posting a pic yet, the marks do coincide with the lower part of the clamp, I'll clean up the set a tad more, the Tesa film is why I wondered whether ordinary "sticky/selo" tape might be the go, even if the adhesive does come of onto the saw plate I'd think that a wipe with metho would remove it, I can only try and see.