Vice for this bench

[dazzler]

Hi all

I think I have done things around the wrong way. I have almost finished my new workbench and figured I could go down to the local vice shop and get a vice to fit it.
However vice shops are few and far between in Hobart so will need to order in from the nth island sight unseen (or measured)

My bench has a worktop that is 56mm thick, overhangs the bench frame by 27mm and is supported by a 50mm x 50mm rhs. (see basic pic).

I would like a large vice at each end of one side.

From the web I like the look of these;

The record vices
The timbecon vice
The timbecon vice screw
The veritas twin screw

But cant find the measurements. So was wondering if anyone who has one can measure to see which would fit. Or if there is a vice wizard out there that could point me in the right direction.

Any help appreciated

cheers

dazzler

[arose62]

Dazzler,

if the worst comes to the worst, you can always use the existing bench to make your "ultimate" bench ;)

There are quite a few ways to mount a vice to a bench (at least with the standard Record type ones). You can mount them so that both the vice jaws are what actually grabs what you are holding in the vice, or you can "bury" the vice in the bench to varying degrees, so that the workpiece is held by wooden parts, rather than metal.

You can fit wooden jaws over the metal ones to increase clamping area, protect the work, and/or bring the vice into alignment with, say, the bench top.

I haven't seen a vice yet which came with fitting instructions - you get to decide your own fitment.

It might be worth consulting a few books on workbenches, or some of the web sites, for ideas.

Cheers,
Andrew

[bitingmidge]

Veritas have comprehensive instructions for the twin screw at least on the LeeValley website, find it in the online catalogue and click on one of the links near the price.

Have you thought about a patternmaker's vice? Best info on this BB is at this thread http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=16959

Cheers,

P

[gatiep]

Try the record lookalikes from Carbatec ( Quick action 175 mm wide is $69-00 and Q action 225 mm wide is $89-00 in their catalog). They also have a patternmakers vise at $349-00 and a Veritas Twin screw vise at $329-00. I'm going to Carbatec Perth tomorrow and will try to get you some measurements ( or shall I say, if I remember ) The quick action ones are about 1/3 of the record price. As far as I remember the mounting is quite a bit lower than the top of the jaws and may almost be enough to fit over the 50 mm rhs, but you'll have to fill in behind the rhs with some wood. See the pic in the catalog ( or website? ) and compare the mount offset in the picture to the width of the vice, it won't be accurate but maybe you can sleep peacefully then.

[bsrlee]

So far you are getting good info. .......BUT

Is this a vice to go on the narrow end of the bench or the wide end/side?

The L.V Twin Screw vice is supposed to go on the narrow end while the Record vices & their clones are supposed to go on the long side towards one end. The pattern makers vice can do either, but it can be a (female dog) to fit - L.V. makes a very nice, very $$$$ one too.

To find the instructions on the L.V. site, look for blue printing on the price line for each item, click the blue print to open a new window with the goods :)

To get the most out of any of these vices, you will need one or more bench dogs & a matching set of holes in the bench top.

[vsquizz]

Here's an excellent vice going cheap;)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4123&item=6185387804&rd=1

Cheers

[DarrylF]

Dazzler,

This is why they always say to buy the vice before you build the bench mate :)

Basically all vices will need an overhang to mount on. You basically don't have one - the RHS is close to the edge of the top all around as I read it.

The Veritas and the vice screws won't work because they're designed so the screws will go right through where you have RHS at the moment - just below the bench top.

The Record/Timbecon & similar vices can be mounted on the end or on the front of a bench - I have one on the front left and one on the right hand end. Again though, they want an overhang to mount on, they basically bolt to the underside of the bench top. The largest one wants a thickness around 90mm from memory to bolt to, which gets the top of the jaws just below the bench top to allow for wooden jaw covers. My bench top is about 65mm thick and I bolted an extra block of bluegum underneath for the vice to bolt to.

The way I see it no vice is going to easily mount to your bench as you have it without some modifications to the bench. Given that, my take is buy the vices you want and go back and modify the bench design to suit. Nice thing about RHS is you can cut & weld the stuff and nobody will know the difference later :)

My 2c - I love my Record vices. The veritas twin screw also looks good. Don't buy cheapies.

[gatiep]

Dazzler


As promised here is some data: On the 175 mm wide lookalike vise the distance from the top of the jaw to the top of the mounting flange is 60 mm and the distance from the back of the jaw to the end of the mounting flange ( ie length of the flange ) is 90 mm. Remember that the rest of the vise workings like the screw etc protrudes a lot further to the back. Unfortunately I got sidetracked and didn't measure the 235 mm vise. These will be pretty standard for the record vise as well.
Most of those vises are installed through a hole in a wide skirt that supports the edge ( overhang ) of the bench top.

[Grunt]

Vice for this bench

Have you considered introducing your bench to cigarettes or beer? These vices have always worked for me.

[Coldamus]

I can't comment on the Carbatec clones but you need to be aware that there may be a big difference in precision between some clones and the original Record. I bought a clone from my local Bunnings because it was half the price of the Record and because all their shelf stock of original Records was showing a lot of surface rust. I didn't intend to pay full price for damaged goods.

I now regret the decision. The handles, screws and guide bars on the clones are often chrome or nickel plated, so initially they don't rust as easily. However the thread of the screw is a very sloppy fit, as are the guide bars. There's a large amount of lateral play that causes the top edges of the fixed and moveable jaws not to line up. (the front jaw rotates in relation to the rear one as you tighten it) Once the vyce is tightened on the workpiece this is usually not a big problem, but I find it annoying when trying to line up a piece for a vertical cut with a hand saw.

If you are ordering my mail, you won't have a chance to twirl the handles and feel the difference but I can assure you there is one - good old English workmanship.

regards
Coldamus

[dazzler]

Thanks everyone for your advice and especially gatiep for the measurements.

Finally found some good 225mm wide carbatec vices at Nobec down here and couldnt believe my luck but they fitted perfectly.

All I needed was to rebate the front jaw in 20mm and everything worked out great.

cheers

dazzler

[derekcohen]

Dazzler

I use two of the Carba-tec 225mm Record-clone vises. One was bought about 8 years ago, the other about 3 years ago. Both work perfectly and are as substantial as the Record originals (which are no longer in production).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[dazzler]

Thanks derek

I was quite surprised. Beggars cant be choosers but these ones at least seem to be pretty good. I have a small record vice (150mm?) and though it seems a little tighter in the threads than the chinese ones I dont think I would spend double even if I could.

Plus I need a new router so theres a little cash )

cheers

dazzler

[outback]

Dazzler

I use two of the Carba-tec 225mm Record-clone vises. One was bought about 8 years ago, the other about 3 years ago. Both work perfectly and are as substantial as the Record originals (which are no longer in production).

Regards from Perth

Derek
Are you sure Derek, regarding the Record not manufacturing that is?
When I made enquiries there was no trouble getting hold of them still. This may be due to the final stock or whatever, but the suppliers hadn't heard about it.
Just curious thats all.

FWIW, I ended up buying a Record. Due to troubles seeing what I buy before hand, coupled with the clones I had seen, I wasn't prepared to take a risk on dodgy casting. If you can check things out before, then it may be OK. There are heaps of clones around, all vicing perfectly. I was concerned I'd get the , it looks Ok, works for 12 months then breaks, variety.

[derekcohen]

Are you sure Derek, regarding the Record not manufacturing that is?

Yes. Once the existing stock is used up, they will no longer be available. Probably one of the "rationalisations" made by Irwin.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[outback]

Yes. Once the existing stock is used up, they will no longer be available. Probably one of the "rationalisations" made by Irwin.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Thanks for clearing that up, must be reasonable stock, for a while at least. I guess LV will have to step into the breach and cast a decent vice to compliment their range.

[numbat]

Check out the best of the best section of the board or this link http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=8617 on how to mount a vice.

Cheers