Brass Handwheel?

[Timless Timber]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/HAInstall09_zpse6c81595.jpg

Looking to source a small hand wheel for this little project, (A saw blade rise and fall precision height adjuster) similar to the one on the photos above and have been searching online everywhere I can think of, to locate such. (Overall heights an issue - as it can't protrude above saw table height without affecting / interfering with the timber material being sawn).

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/8xYAAOxywh1TB9yR/$_12.JPG

There are any number of lathe tail stock and milling machine hand wheels on the internet... such as the above on ebay etc.

I thought that purely for aesthetics reasons - it might be nice to have a small hand wheel in say Brass (bronze) polished around the outside edge...
BUT,
I can't seem to locate anything like this in brass (or bronze) on line.
Maybe it's not a suitable metal for making such a device? (Not hard enough?)...or too expensive?
I'm guessing there's a good reason they aren't readily available...

What am I missing - why aren't they readily available?.

This is about the only one I've been able to locate a pic of online.

http://media-cache-cd0.pinimg.com/736x/86/90/db/8690db8583e979b82452a00a9832bb3e.jpg

Its a little large for this job but shows similar to what I was thinking of roughly.

Assuming one WOULD work OK and look good.... how would be the best way to go about having one made?
Do you cast one for e.g. or turn one on a lathe out of a block of solid brass (bronze?)

I seem to recall somewhere I have a 2 liter ice cream bucket with a dozen or so old brass keyed alike padlocks floating around in the shed somewhere... do I melt these down to obtain my brass?

Is this something anyone here would be keen to make?
I know squat about metal work so figured it best to ask those who do...

Many thanks in advance for any advice.

[Michael G]

TIG welding brass is tricky because the zinc comes out of the mix first and mucks everything up. I couldn't say definitively but melting down old brass locks may be the same if you are not careful.

What size wheel are you looking for?

Michael

[Oldneweng]

Brass is commonly cast in home foundries. I have done it myself. My first attempt. Not totally successful due to lack of heat, but I did make a small ingot. I have just been watching a video from Doubleboost about casting brass, called "Casting Brass". A quick search on YouTube should find it.

That is a very nice handwheel.

Dean

[Timless Timber]

Best I can tell this hand wheel needs to be about 100mm dia (or less ~ 75mm+).
I'm not sure where tig welding the brass would be required in making such a hand wheel?.
Again I know zilch about this topic - I'm just trying to nut it out is all.
Yes you can see that the brass does look nice.
Theres any number of brass gate valve type wheels in plumbing applications yet they seem not to be used anywhere in machinery like lathe tailstock hand wheels or milling machine hand wheels.
I find that really surprising - I'm sure there must be a logical reason for it... like cost of the material or difficulty working it, or it's not hard enough for the application?.
I'm off to watch Youtube about casting brass.
You'd think you could just buy one off the shelf out of China or something? :no: :?

[nearnexus]

Why not just turn up a plain disc type hand wheel out of some 75 mm diam brass round stock.

You don't need spokes.

Be dead easy and look OK.

Rob

[KBs PensNmore]

You'll probably find it's the cost of brass Vs cost of plastics, as to why they're not easily available. Put an advert on market place to see if anyone has something similar, failing that ask in the foundry section of metal work for an approx costing.
Kryn

[Michael G]

I'm not sure where tig welding the brass would be required in making such a hand wheel?

TIG welding is not required. I was just trying to make the point that casting brass is not just throwing a bunch of scrap in a pot and pouring out a finished article. There are going to be traps in there (like getting the stuff too hot) that will catch out the unwary.

Michael

[Timless Timber]

In my minds eye....

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/23931708-detail-of-an-old-fire-fighting-vehicle_zpsa4883499.jpg

I had been "imagining" something like this... (Which apparently is off an old fire truck).

I'm wondering about say 3d printing one in plastic... and then loss sand casting...

I know a group of guys interesting in having about 8 or so of these height adjusters made up, and was thinking it might be something that the plastic 3D mockup... could be used to make say 10 or 12 lost sand molds from - then do one pour...

But it's a lot easier to say it, than do it, I am sure... and I'm guessing, not cheap to do? :?

The cast Brass / Bronze youtube vids are totally fascinating.....

[Timless Timber]

Whereabouts would you buy 4 inch dia Brass or Phosphor Bronze Barstock in a short length/s - to spin up a hand wheel on a lathe?

[QC Inspector]

Couldn't you locate a steel wheel you like and have the chrome stripped and re-plated in brass? Tell the plater you want the brass plating nice and thick.

Pete

[Timless Timber]

Sure thing - what a terrific suggestion - I hadn't even thought of that! :2tsup:

Thank you very much indeed.

There are any number of suitable hand wheels available online in steel and stainless steel etc.

Brass Plating it, never occurred to me. :doh:

I can't think of a reason not too. :?

I'm in the middle of bidding on and shipping a 2 inch long piece of phosphor bronze 4 inch round bar stock from the UK to Oz - to have a couple of them spun up on a lathe as my only option... but plating opens up a whole new realm of possibly much cheaper possibilities.

Thank you indeed for such a creative work around type suggestion.

I owe you one for that!

[electrosteam]

You could try model engineering suppliers.

Example in the UK: http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/Machine-Handles
They have 80 mm chrome handles.

There are also suppliers in Australia.

There could be forum members with an old machine tool fitted with chrome handles (like my Sheraton 9A).

John

[CGroves]

A wheel from a large gate valve might do the job. It may be worth looking at gate valve suppliers. They may sell replacement handles.

Christian

[jhovel]

I think I've seen large fire hose connections (valves/taps) with brass hand wheels about that size. Have a look in a scrap metal yard or tip shop.

[Ben Dono]

I have never tried plating anything but have read a few stories from home electroplaters. Is brass plating doable as a diy project? Just curious...it could open up a few more possibilities. Could be fraught with issues though....

[Timless Timber]

Apparently plating with alloys like brass bronze is quite tricky for a home DIY application.

I read that it involves some nasty combinations of chemicals and constant monitoring of the chemical composition thru the plating process to get a consistent and good result - especially if you want it well bonded and thick enough to polish out any surface irregularities.

Apparently it's more of a industrial type application - a little beyond most home DIY electro-platers.

I'm sure there will be people who have done it at home and had success.

Not sure how I would fare as a first timer tho if I chose to do it myself.

My turn one out of phosphor Bronze option is getting expensive fast.

I found a 4inch dia x 1 & 1/2 inch long section of Phosphor Bronze Bar Stock for sale online for around Oz $43 - which is probably enough to make 1 or even 2 such wheels maybe...

Trouble is it weighs about 1.1 kilos or so... and the air freight cost to Oz is another $125 on top...

So $170 for the raw stock to turn the wheel then the lathe turning cost ??? on top - it suddenly gets very expensive very fast!

Assuming say the old tradesman's rule of thumb of 1/3rds (Material, Labor & O/heads) - that $170 could become say $540 for say 2 wheels.. or around $270 a wheel, which seems a little 'stiff' compared to the cost of these steel models available online for $50.

That's just 'back of envelope' / 'best guesstimate' type costs estimation... based on what I've found that's available online.

I've no idea for e.g. what it might 'cost' to lost sand cast such a wheel/s from scrap brass (brass bullet cases?) or old gate valves / brass padlocks etc?

Maybe the $50 steel wheel off ebay etc is whats used as the male plug to make the female green sand mold?

Maybe you make enough to sell the surplus wheels off "online" to justify the cost of firing up a forge and melting scrap brass?

Would there be a market for them? (If so why aren't there any available online already to fill such a need/desire?).

Certainly an "interesting learning process"... this whole "metalwork" gig is mucho different to wood butchering - that much I am learning.

Thank you for all the considered input...

When these height adjusters were last made in the USA as a "batch" of some 10 or more... they came out with the I presume alloy handwheel for around the $100...

Its kind of hard to 'justify' spending say ~$270 to spin just 1 or 2 hand wheels up on a lathe from solid barstock...

BUT

With that said... if its what I want and will give me the enjoyment of using it (and the wow factor of showing off to others who see it and say 'wow - where'd you get that?') - then maybe its not beyond the realm of possibilities...

I have another 24 hours to make up my mind and bid on this 4 inch dia x 1 & 1/2 inch long bar stock of phosphor bronze.

Buying its easy - but getting it here's another story!

Would making such a wheel as that one in my minds eye or the one on the bench photo - for someone with a lathe, out of a 4 inch round phosphor bronze bar stock, be a relatively quick "fun project" or a bear of a job no one in their right mind would want to touch with a 10 foot pole?

No point me buying the brass & swallowing up the 80 euro postage bill, if no one would want to turn it when it gets here.

The sad thing is - most of it will end up on the workshop floor as swarf! Maybe enough even to warrant melting it into down into a round ingot, for making say a 3rd wheel out of the scrap? :?

Wish I knew more about this topic.. hard to make (expensive) decisions on the fly when you don't know all the ins and outs...

My bro In law just showed me a new (to him) small metal lathe he just bought cheap...for working on his restored motorbikes - that I could use if I wanted too...(which i think he said would just take a 4 inch dia piece to turn as its max size) and while I have turned wood before today neither of us have ever turned anything in metal using a new to us metal lathe, so learning to do so in a metal like bronze that neither of us know zippo about... on a machine neither of us have ever used - well our chances of not screwing it up totally would be very very low - I'd guess. Worse we could probably lose digits in the process...learning the hard way.

So many decisions... in such a short time...

If I Buy this bronze and have it posted air freight - and then decide NOT to go with a bronze hand wheel I'll never be able to sell it here for what it owes me.

I GUESS I could have the height adjuster made with a steel wheel for now... and keep the bronze bar stock... and maybe practice turning a hand wheel in alloy or something until I get proficient THEN make myself a bronze one to the same dimensions at some future point.

My heads spinning now.. I'll sleep on it.

[RayG]

Don't buy that bronze.. $125 air freight...:no: you can buy it much cheaper locally... :)

Buy some bronze hollow bar.. http://www.georgewhite.com.au/products/product_listing.asp?categorycode=LG2-BLG-H

Or if you'd prefer solid brass..

http://www.georgewhite.com.au/products/product_listing.asp?categorycode=BR-RLS

Ray

[Michael G]

All metals have their characteristics and PhBr is no exception. I wouldn't advise anyone new to metal turning to start on it as I think a lot of material could be wasted before getting a part that you are happy with. PhBr requires well sharpened tooling - a skill in itself.

To make a handle up from solid like you have pictured would not be straight forward either. As well as the lathe to turn the outside you will need a mill with rotary table for the inside (unless you want to spend a lot of time chain drilling and filing) and may be even some special cutters. CNC makes it easier of course but I'd suggest that you are looking at several hours of machine time each. Brass plating is going to be the cheapest way I think.

Michael

[RayG]

Here's another option... http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/investment-casting-brass-hand-wheel_1553059286.html :D

Hi Michael, I've always found brass and bronze very easy to turn, mostly silicon bronze... and probably alloy 360 brass.. is phosphor bronze harder?

Ray

[jhovel]

Hold your horses for a bit longer :U
I think I may have found something for you. Not quite what you imagined, but getting closer. And I'm happy to keep looking - as I'm sure others are.
If you let me know how it should be 'different' or rather 'changed somehow', I'll see what I can do. This is yours if it can be adapted.
Ideally, to help us looking for suitable options, give us the minimum and maximum outside diameter and the spindle diameter and we can go from there. It is possible to build up brass castings by brazing and machine it to get the dimensions right. For example, the brass wheel in the photos is quite thin, but another brass ring could be soldered/silver soldered or brazed on to the back to - say double - the rim thickness and then turned in the lathe to give a round shape like the one you 'imagined'.
If this wheel isn't close enough, I or someone else is sure to find something closer.
305510305511305512

[Michael G]

I've always found brass and bronze very easy to turn, mostly silicon bronze... and probably alloy 360 brass.. is phosphor bronze harder?

It cuts quite nicely if you have sharp tools. I've found that if tools are not sharp though it rubs rather than cuts poorly.

Michael

[PDW]

Do you want one for yourself, or do you want to start selling them?

If it's just one, buy some bar stock and machine it. It costs what is costs.

If you want lots (10 or more) then it's time to get them cast.

Friend of mine got all his bronze boat fittings cast and it worked out cheaper than buying the expensive ones sold in yacht chandleries (what a surprise).

But - you have to have a pattern. It's not really worth making a pattern for a one-off. Hence the question.

PDW

[Timless Timber]

I am just after 1 for myself.

There's a group of guys all own Robland X31's worldwide in a yahoo email group - who are after about 8 adjusters (so far) in total as "a group buy".

Thus far, no one in the group has put their hand up to make them, from among the group or their contacts.

BobL has kindly offered to make me one for myself (He's not interested in making a batch & I can't blame him for that).

I am trying to figure a way to get 1 brass bronze handle for myself - maybe even something BobL can "have some fun with" if he's a mind too spinning up something that allows him to express some "creativity" (to showcase his skills & ability).

I figure depending on what Bob wants that I either obtain the stock for him Or if he'd prefer NOT to turn a handle I just provide a completed one.

The reason I contemplated 2 was because...

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/dP8AAOxy69JTAI75/$_12.JPG

This piece of stock is available on evil bay in the UK for just $46 odd Australian (25UK pounds/euro's)

Trouble is - postage is another $125.00 odd to get it here and at 1&1/2 inches long their might be enough in it maybe to get 2 such wheels in case anyone else (in the batch group) wants one to help me ameliorate the costs.

The idea of modifying brass drain grates is a very good one & perfectly acceptable... no doubt the 6 round holes could have material removed between every second hole in groups of 3 to leave 3 "spokes". and as you say 2 bronzed or silver soldered together and a rim turned to make something similar to what I had envisioned.

This will depend somewhat on What Bob eventually decides he "wants" to do....

I just want to "go along" at the end of the day...

If Bobs not into making the handle, then we will just buy one.

Perhaps at some later point I'll get it plated if I find a place that will do it.

Until I speak with Bob again about how much he wishes to do himself (or not) then i'm keeping my options "open" to just buy one, or get one plated or pay someone else to turn me up one etc.

I don't yet know how fancy BobL wants to go with making this - I don't want to 'push' him into casting one for e.g. (i've seen his forge for example) because I know his time is valuable to him. By the same token - I don't want to prevent him from being as creative as he would like to be!.

If he wants to engrave the darn thing and gold inlay it with his initials - I am good with that - as I'd consider it an "honor" to have something made by Bob....and the 'cost' isn't really a big consideration to me - more-so that he is free to do as mush (or little) as he wants & that I do all I can to give him as many options as possible from buying one in, in steel, and having it plated, to buying in the stock and him spinning it, to me engaging someone else to spin it etc.

I just need to know what's achievable when I next speak with him is all - and some idea of costs.. the best easiest way!

No doubt BobL will have his own ideas and wishes as to how this transpires.. I just want him to have all options available to him and he chooses what ever way he wishes to achieve the eventual outcome. If possible I'd like him to have the freedom of creative scope to do anything he wishes.
I'd like him to have "fun" doing this little job, rather than it be a burden and a bear of a task he wished he hadn't embarked on.

Times not such an issue... nor really is the cost.

Its just ending up with something functional that looks good and Bob enjoys creating.

By doing my "research" ahead of time - I will at least KNOW what hes speaking about rather than being a dumb - ass who he has to walk thru every step of the process...I'd like to do him the honor of at least having SOME knowledge of what he will have to go thru - how I can facilitate him in any way he wishes - by having the material or parts etc available to him that he will need.

I'm open to how I achieve that.

I know Bobs clever and knowledgeable enough to make brass or bronze alloy to his own recipe in his forge if he desired and probably cast anything required, or likely spin anything needed - but that doesn't mean he necessarily wishes to involve himself to that depth in a small / hopefully simple project like this.

Whatever he wants, I'll do my best to facilitate it, by having the materials or parts available, - doing anything I can to make his task as easy (or difficult/complex) or enjoyable (or not) as he wishes.

I don't want to be an "anchor he has to drag along" thru the entire process. I want him to be free to do anything he desires (or not) thru the process. I want to assist him by making anything he might desire in way of materials available if he doesn't already have it. I don't want him to have to waste his valuable time trying this process to obtain requisite materials... I'm trying to be "pro active" about sourcing ahead of time, anything he might require...so that he is free to be creative without 'limitation' from me, on cost or design or materials etc.

If he's the Lone Ranger - then call me Tonto, - I'm "the gopher", (go for this, go for that) willing to do anything required - or go anywhere and spend whatever it costs for HIM to be able to have some fun creating something functional - that at the end of the day - will hopefully make people do a double take and look again - at something with a little WOW factor.

I guess that's pretty much what I'm trying to achieve, if I have to buy in brass or bronze for him, then I shall. If I have to supply my own hand wheel - either turned or plated etc then I shall.

I just don't want to supply something (anything) that takes away from his creativity & skills, because I skimped on the cost to get a good one...or the right one - or provided something butt ugly that looks yuk. At end of the day Bob has the final say as to what goes onto into this little project. I just want to facilitate his experience in any way I can so he gets to enjoy himself thru the process. I don;t want him to have to stress or waste his valuable time sourcing materials he might need - when I have the time to do that for him!

At the end of the day I am pretty flexible - I will go along with whatever Bob wants....and try my best so that this doesn't become something he regrets taking on.

Least that's what I'm thinking at the moment for what it's worth.

I figured if the handle is important to me - then I should do everything within my power to make that "my problem" rather than dumping it on Bob and asking him to come up with something impossible - trying to "please me".

Does that make any sense? :?

The guy (Brian Lamb) in the US who came up with the design we are copying...no longer makes these and has sanctioned us and anyone else in the group to use his online plans to make this adjuster.

This is what he said about the hand wheel.


You could buy any handle you want…. it just needs to be bored to fit the end of the screw, think that’s 3/8” if I remember correctly. You can search the internet for knurled knobs or something like that, but a few places that come to mind are McMaster-Carr, mscdirect.com (http://mscdirect.com), (http://mscdirect.com/) Enco, Mortonmachine.com (http://Mortonmachine.com) (http://mortonmachine.com/) and there are plenty more.



The one thing you need to be careful of is the over all height of the hand wheel, if I remember correctly I used a lever style handle and had to bend the lever down so it wouldn’t interfere with material on the table.

These are photos of installing the last batch of these made by Brian for the last group buy.

http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/X31/HeightAdjustFiles/HAInstall08.jpg

http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/X31/HeightAdjustFiles/HAInstall09.jpg

This is a link to the plans for the parts.

http://web.hypersurf.com/~charlie2/X31/HeightAdjustFiles/HeightAdjusterFiles.html

You can see that the hand wheel design isn't "specified" - you select your own around 3 - 4 inches diameter and as long as the knob isn't too tall and protrudes above the table height your good to go!.

As Brian said I think he had a taller knob that folded flat on his...to sit below table height - and that's an option, OR the fat flat type knob depicted in the my minds eye photo above off the old fire engine hopefully would sit flat enough to not protrude above table top height.

Who'd think that finding a hand wheel would be a "Bigger than Ben Hur" operation eh?. :D

[cba_melbourne]

On the electroplating idea. Brass is an alloy of Copper and Zinc. The two metals do electroplate at different voltages, meaning that you will only plate one metal onto another, until this is exhausted. Then the voltage goes up and you electroplate the other metal. One layer over another is not the result that you wanted. There are tricks using high currents and toxic cyanide baths to deposit both metals together, but it is not easy to control the process and the quality of the end result may not be good enough.

But are you really locked-in into that brass look? You know, if you do not coat polished Brass with clear Zapon lacquer it very soon discolours. Its called a "patina", some people like an antique looking patina others think it looks cheap and dirty. If you handle it a lot like you will a handwheel, the laquer will wear off soon, looking even worse than if you left the brass uncoated with a natural patina. If you were not completely locked-in to a brass look, how about copper plating? Copper plating is very simple and easy to do DIY. Copper too will acquire a patina, just like brass.

If you are locked-into this "golden" brass look... by now you have found out that a suitable size slice of brass or bronze is not cheap, and it takes a bit of work to turn/mill into a nice handwheel. Would you consider buying a suitable off the shelf and cheap steel handwheel, and have it..... (please do not laugh or discard the idea thinking it is far too expensive).... and have it gold electroplated instead? Seriously, think about it, gold looks very much like brass yet it will not oxidize and turn dark. And I would think a few microns of pure Gold coating is not as expensive as making a one off brass handwheel. Maybe ask a jeweler if he could electroplate your wheel. Or if more adventurous, there are DIY Gold plating kits.

Chris

[Timless Timber]

Chris it's a great idea and yes I'd be happy with gold electroplating it.

I actually have a couple small raw gold nuggets picked up out in the Yilgarn Goldfields...some years back - that I would happily contribute if that's the way to go.

I have no idea being "raw gold" if they would work O.K. in the electroplating process for gold - I imagine that impurities like copper silver etc within them would require different chemicals and voltages to be electroplated (due to differing valence), so in theory, at least maybe possible?.

No idea how ones refines them to make them suitable for plating if that's required. I've hung onto them with the idea of using them for tuning/ground balancing a metal detector one day!.

I think I have some old scrap gold (cuff links & tie pins etc) from old jewellery here as well from memory that might work?.

Is it something I could do easily at home DIY?

TIA

[cba_melbourne]

I have no practical experience at Gold plating. Except the chemical plating method that is used in electronics to plate the contact strips of circuit boards. But I never tried Gold electroplating.
I think you first would have to electroplate your steel handwhhel with Copper. Copper is easy to apply and has an excellent adhesion. Then you need to add a coat of Nickel that prevents copper atoms to over time diffuse into the thin Gold layer and cause discoloration. You do not want your handwheel to look like a fake Chinese $50 Rolex watch after a couple years. Do a Google search, there are many sources for Gold plating. This is just an overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_plating. In doubt, ask a jeweler if he can do it for you.

Scrap gold from old jewellry may not be ideally suited. For one it could be just plated a few microns, and Silver underneath. But second, jewelry is never pure (24K) Gold, but most usually an 18K alloy (18k=75% Gold content, the remainder are metals to give it a particular color like Rhodium to make White Gold or Copper to make it Red Gold). Pure gold would also be too soft for jewelry. And Gold jewelry for kids is often only 9K, so to keep it affordable to teenagers. Your nuggets could be purer than you think, the average Gold contents in a nugget is 85-90%. They say the more orange it looks, the higher the content.

[Michael G]

I've bought from these guys before -
http://www.ddbarry.com.au/

If you go to the product range tab you will see just about every knob, handle and wheel that you would ever need (and then some). Personally I like the Elesa range

Michael

[Timless Timber]

Yes,

http://cdm.elesa.it/imm/foto/Elesa+Ganter/7162_DIN_950__+I_p_i.jpg

Something like this from DD Barry - if I changed the rotating knob to be fat and squat to reduce overall height would probably be fine.

I could plate it at any subsequent time..

Maybe have a couple test runs on copper plating then nickel plating.

I'm cursing coz years ago there was a "Irwell" tap electro - plating factory just down the road a ways from me....and sometimes if you asked nicely & supplied the universal "nectar of the gods" universal elixir of life in sufficient quantity for the boys on the shop floor they would "hang" small "extras" in their bath when they were plating things... and wed get a lot of parts for cars done with copper then chrome back in the day.

I remember a mate lived across the road from me & myself rebuilt a old 351 cleveland block that had been donated by Ford to the tafe college for apprentice training that he bought cheap at tender - coz it had a 4 bolt mains solid steel crank in it!.

It was for his 1975 XB Coupe...

We painted it fireproof white... adjustable push rods (coz we couldn't afford roller rockers) and sold lifters, Holley 780 spread bore 4 barrel on a high rise manifold - and we took off anything not bolted down and got it chromed... bonnet hinges and springs.... sump, rocker covers, air cleaner, brake cylinder lid, all the bolts in the gutter of the mudguards under the hood, the bonnet catch and spring etc.

All the chrome stuff went thru the Irwell tap electroplating baths...
It was pretty bling with a fireproof white block and all that chrome under the hood.
Went like stink too. Cost a lot of cartons from memory & created a lot of morning after headaches too!.

Sorry - rambling.

Have to see what I can do about home electro plating I guess. Copper shouldn't be too hard to do I'd imagine.... Nickle might be a little tougher to come bye. Gold I have some of.

Could be a fun little project - my luck I'll blow up the shed or make fumes my neighbors mistake for a clandestine meth lab! :rolleyes: :D

[QC Inspector]

Another option for plating that will stand up to everything is the titanium nitride they put on cutting tools. You have companies in Aussie (http://www.guhring.com.au/services/s-coating.php) that re-plate sharpened tools and might do it. It may be cheaper than gold, maybe not. Get ahold of some and see.

Pete

[Ropetangler]

TT I would think, but could be proved wrong, that you would get plenty of bronze to cast a wheel or alternatively cast a blank to machine your wheel from a scrap dealer much cheaper than buying new bar stock. If you are able to cast either wheel or a machinable blank, old bronze gate valve bodies might be the go. As far as I know, many gate valves use bronze for the body, but may use brass for the gate and spindle. The bodies have a reddish brass colour while the gate and spindle will be more yellow. For your application it may not matter if you used the whole lot, but it may be more difficult to machine, - I don't know but others will jump in hopefully and inform us all.
Did you particularly want to use Phosphor Bronze for any reason? The reason I ask it is a slightly specialised copper alloy, and might be a bit more expensive than more garden variety brasses, again I can't say for sure, but I suspect that it may be the case. I would think that any brass / bronze alloy would be strong enough, but other issues such as colour or ease of machining may be upper-most in your thinking on this. good luck with your project anyway, and brass or bronze, brass plated or plated in gold, you have a good range of options to choose from, and some with lots of cachet to boot!
Rob.

[Timless Timber]

I am bookmarking all these links pages for later use - so thanks all for putting them up.

That gold looking titanium nitride plating looks wonderful! I have a set of drill bits with that plating on them and it never even occurred to me to try and use the same stuff.

I guess my mind must be coasting in neutral.

I'm not fixated on gold, brass, bronze (and now titanium Nitride) etc, it's just whatever I can find available to make it easy (and fun) I guess.

It will depend a bit on what Bob wants to do (or not) at the end of the day... the aim is to have some fun - life being about the journey and not the destination.

I just want something that gives me enjoyment and satisfaction in being "involved" in it's creation, every time I use it & reminds me of the guy who helped out and made it for / with me.

I guess I have time to get across all this...its not urgent, I still have a few projects on the go that need finishing yet which should keep me out of trouble as things cool down and I am able to use the shed a bit more without melting like a paraffin candle up there!.

The blade height adjuster will come in handy for some work I have planned down the track is all.

It will be ready one day when its ready - I'm in no hurry.

It will give me time to work this all out.

The old guy in the UK with that bar stock Phosphor bronze piece on ebay is 81 years old - retired machinist... he actually has a lathe and COULD turn a couple wheels for me to remove all the weight for postage and just post the hand wheel across to save postage costs.

Problem is his lathe only takes 3&1/2 inch diameter.... so he couldn't mount it to turn it down to size that he can work.... I guess that's probably why he's selling it.

I'll work this all out eventually.

A simple question (i thought) has run 2 whole pages - BUT I have learned heaps in the process & for that I am grateful to each and every one of you.

Thank you one and all gentlemen - sincerely.

[Uncle Al]

A bit out of left field, and seeing it is for a woodworking machine, a turned timber wheel with a fairly high gloss finish could be an alternative material. Very cheap, and plenty of turners on this forum could help you out if you haven't got your own lathe.
Just a matter of using epoxy to hold a suitable nut in a blank, then go for your life.
Timber could be laminated if there is any concern regarding strength, and the little knob type handle again could be attached with a nut epoxied into the rim.

Anyway, something to think about.

Alan...

[hiroller]

Since you showed the limited edition Benchcrafted bronze wheel, I thought it worth mentioning the other finish they tried.
This was to give an iron wheel a dark bronze patina in the same way as seasoning a cast iron pan.
Basically a thin coat of flax seed / raw linseed oil and cooked in the oven (repeat 4 or 5 times).
Looks good, corrosion resistant and very cost effective: http://benchcrafted.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/omega-3-fatty-acid-for-your-cast-iron.html

[clear out]

Will this put you out of your saga or is it too big?
Brass probably off an old globe valve.
H.

[Timless Timber]

Thanks CO - it looks great however I think it's a tad large for the job at 6 inches unfortunately.
Somewhere between 3 & 3/4 inches to 4 inches would be the ideal, I am reliably told by the designer.

Adjusters on the back burn for a a little bit, I've been "redirected" to another "project that just cropped up"...at the moment - soaking up all my time & spare cash unfortunately!

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/Camry_zps2d30a148.jpg

Self explanatory really - teaching the kids (2 of) to drive and unfortunately a roo decided to commit hari kari... barely a love tap - but just the parts were some $300 this week.... a little paneling ~$500.00 then some paint ~$200 and there's another $1K bites the dust.... :rolleyes:

It's "mums shopping trolley car" so me 'n the 2 kids are deep in the doo doo while mum has to walk to the shops (across the road) so that's why ts "become a priority". :) Happy wife, happy life.

A more experienced driver at the wheel would likely have missed it altogether... BUT - you only get experience by doing it. :(

One day when I'm too old and ornery to drive myself anymore (like next week) the kids will have to drive me around so - it's swings and roundabouts - I have to cop it sweet now, to benefit in the future (hopefully).

I don't know why but crap like this ALWAYS seems to happen just when I start working on something for ME... and my stuff goes on the back burner.

The joys of family life I guess.

Least I will have time to do my homework on the adjuster.

Just finished putting my rail adjusters on the X31 before the bingle luckily!

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/troutylow/P10103241024x768_zpsed52753a.jpg

So While I'm making good progress, it's no where near as fast as I'd like and this car repair bidness will just slow it down a tad more.

This seems to be pretty much how my life goes these days - one step forward and 2 back!.

I'll get back to the height adjuster & hand wheel soon enough...

I have a few such projects n the go, that all need finishing now at some point, my height adjustable bench, the Cyclone Dust Extractor, Line the shed walls.

Sparky was s'posed to come yesterday but he seem sit be lost in transit somewhere.

If if was raining ... well you get the idea! :wink:

Life's about the journey (not the destination) BobL said!

I'll get there one day.:2tsup:

The reward of patience? is patience. (And whoever said that should have been garotted at birth)! :D

[Michael G]

I've just found a pair of 5" diameter CI handwheels, one with a 1/2" bore, the other with 5/8". 4" seems small to me if you are applying any sort of force on the screw.

Pictures if required...

Michael

[Timless Timber]

I do hear you.

The hand wheel gets minimum turns, the height adjuster has a speed nut, so you push the speed nut, and lever the blade up or down to near the height you want - let go of the speed nut and adjust a couple mm or so to final height with the hand wheel....so maybe a turn or two at best.

With the offset bracket - theres only so much room between the handwheel and adge of the saw bench table... it think it shows it in the pics on page 1 of this thread. The one depicted seems to be smaller than 3 & 3/4 inches... and I sort of figured 4 inches would be about what I can get away with maybe.

Least that's what I think I've not seen one in the flesh or operated one myself - I;m going just by what I see in the pics, and the drawings links.

[Michael G]

What size bore does the wheel need to have? If the wheel in the picture in the first post is say just over 3", the threaded rod scales to be around 16mm/ 5/8" diameter, so a 14mm/ 1/2" bore? Still think it is a lot of load for a little wheel.

Michael

[Timless Timber]

According to the designer the bore is 3/8th inch dia.

Least that's what he thinks.


You could buy any handle you want…. it just needs to be bored to fit the end of the screw, think that’s 3/8” if I remember correctly.

[Oldneweng]

I had a dingle with a roo coming home after 12hr night shift this week. First frontal with this car. Due to the HUUUGE cost of bullbars for this vehicle, it does not have one, so I just drive slower in the tricky spots. There is about 10m from the undergrowth to my car so little chance to do anything. I did get a bit of braking in. End result was a grill smashed into many pieces, a wire to a driving light cut through (cheap soft wire) and another bit of plastic lying on the road which think came from a tray underneath the front of the motor when he/her rolled under. The driving lights did not even get knocked out of alignment. They are little LED's tho.

I am driving the ute now. Its got a sort of bullbar (not plastic at least) and much more ground clearance.

Dean

[Timless Timber]

With the hand wheel thing - if I get one too large in dia, there's a likelihood fingers will get caught / jammed maybe between the outer rim of the hand wheel and edge of the saw table, while adjusting...if there's not enough clearance for my "Phat Phingers" (Onkaparinga's) which will be annoying when using it.

Yes this car things driving me nutso ATM.

Managed to find the 4 spare parts I need (Bonnet, LH F Mudguard, LH F Headlight, and Indicator light) at a local wrecker for $320.00 :2tsup:
Trouble is they are white and the cars silver..... so some spray painting's going to be involved.

Also I see the front radiator panel (Box section, made up of of U channel, welded within U channel, i.e. spot welded) above the headlight is pushed down maybe half an inch....

I've done some diagonal cross measurements and the LH front M Gaurd is pushed back about 1 - 2 mm.... its minor and will pull out IF I can figure a way to panel beat the radiator support panel box section above the headlight back UP into its correct position, it will re position the inner guard back the 2 mm to its correct position for the new guard to go on meet the door with the right gap and the bonnet gutters to line up.

I had a quote from an old retired panel beater of $500 to replace the parts with those I bought and panel the radiator support back into position.
That would leave the respray work still to be done. (I guess another $200+ just for materials). (Total around $300+$500+$200 + me do all the sanding masking painting) = $1000

Or

Local Panel beater down the street says he will do it all for $1200 - using my 2nd hand parts $300 and I do squat - which is what I'm best at! :D
= total $1500.

Or

I just do it ALL myself... Parts $300, Paint Maybe $200+ & Panel beating nil = Total $500.

Options, Options... :?

The $1500 option it would be back on the road in a few days time...for "she who's p!ssed at walking to the shops & thus me" at the moment. :( :rolleyes:

The $1000 option will take a few weeks or so longer and involve auto spray painting with acrylics, which I haven't really done in about 30 years (But I did do 20 years spray polishing varnish on furniture so it's not like I haven't got the hand gun skills).

The $500 option where I do it all, - involves panel beating this box section radiator panel support... which i havent really got a clue how to do properly but MAYBE could work it all out - or conversely make it much worse and screw it up AND in addition - probably take me a couple months of wife misery while I plod away at it and make it up as I go.

Who cars only worht say $2.5K so it seems somehow "wrong" to throw $1.5K at it in repairs.
More sleep on it time needed, to work these 3 options out...
That extra $1K would buy a lot of shed wall linings... dust cyclone fittings... adjustable height work bench air hover pads... :doh:

"Happy Wife = Happy Life" - versus "He who dies with the most toys wins" Arghhh - the ultimate "blokes dilemma"... this could require a forum Poll to decide!. :U:B

Unhappy wife could = early death with the most toys. :no:

Why is life never "easy"?

Kids - they are the lifetimes punishment for the few minutes of sexual enjoyment making them 30 years ago! :doh: