Anyone heard of RSB??

[DSEL74]

Just picked up this gal and can't seem to find any info what so ever on her. 305347
Nor can I find one of the same design. Most are an upside down L shape not F shape like this or they have the Y shape with the pulleys running horizontal across the top.
It is also an unusual size from the others I have seen are much smaller or huge at full size.

It has been modified with a motor mount added and the belt drive changed to a VEE pulley.


It is has RSB embossed in the casting 305348and was probably imported into Australia and retailed by Miller & Co (Machinery) Pty Ltd Machinery Specialists South Melbourne & Bendigo as per the brass plaque.
Looking for any info related to either of these companies which may help in identifying the drill with the intention of getting it back to original state.


Is there anyone into these types of drill??

Sometimes referred to as Camel Back Drill, Sensitive Drill, and Hunch Back Drill.

[kwijibo99]

What a little ripper, outstanding score.

There is an RSB lathe on lathes.co.uk. The logo looks the same as the one on your drill.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/rsb/

Sorry I cant add any more info but I did manage to find a photo of Miller & Co.'s South Melbourne premises from 1938 on the Museum Victoria website.

http://museumvictoria.com.au/collections/items/765537/negative-south-melbourne-victoria-1934

Cheers,
Greg.

[DSEL74]

What a little ripper, outstanding score.

There is an RSB lathe on lathes.co.uk. The logo looks the same as the one on your drill.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/rsb/

Sorry I cant add any more info but I did manage to find a photo of Miller & Co.'s South Melbourne premises from 1938 on the Museum Victoria website.

http://museumvictoria.com.au/collections/items/765537/negative-south-melbourne-victoria-1934

Cheers,
Greg.


Greg,

That is great info…. I now at least know it came from the UK.



Looking similar to the well-known "Relm (http://www.lathes.co.uk/relm)" lathes, the RSB might have been made by Breeds, in Leeds, a company with a connection to Relm and whose lathes were sometimes branded "Atlas".http://www.lathes.co.uk/rsb/img0.jpg

[DSEL74]

Started cleaning it up today.



I'm wondering if this is mean't to be a ball race for a bearing?? Also what are you supposed to use to tighten those collars? It looks like they have used a mallet & punch.
305381305382



Not quite sure why this grub screw also has a nut.
305383305384

305385


Rear mount point for the pulleys to the base or motor mount.
305386305387305388

Table.
305389
Feed handle raises the quill and gravity feeds it, I think maybe a spring is missing from the top which would reverse this.
305390

[nearnexus]

Not quite sure why this grub screw also has a nut.
305384305383



Looks to be an adjuster for side play on the quill.

The lock nut holds the setting.

May be a brass or bronze plug at the end of the bolt ?

Rob

[kwijibo99]

G'day Desel,
I reckon the v-belt pulley is not original and would have originally been a flat belt type.
The drill in the attached brochure page, although a bit different, might give you an idea as to how the idler pulleys might have originally been set up on yours.
If I had to guess I would bet that yours was driven from an overhead shaft so the idlers would be positioned for the belt coming from above rather than below like the one in the brochure.
It looks like a really nice restoration project, good luck and be sure to show us how she finishes up.
Cheers,
Greg.

[DSEL74]

Yes that drill is "similar" and the vee pulley is definitely an add on as is the fabricated motor mount. It would have originally been flat belt drive, and set up in terms of pulleys very similar to the burke, which is the same as the junior and many others. Mine is actually a bigger drill than those but still a bench top drill.

Some did have a main drive pulley which connected to the line drive, others had their own motor at the base and connected where the line drive would be. These must have been around over a crossover period. Which of these mine was originally is unknown. Although based on the history of the RSB lathe it suggests that this was an late 1800s drill.

Actually re reading the image you found it says that, that model came in line drive and motor drive options.




I wonder what size the pulleys would have been and if there are some I can find or maybe some cast iron castors that could be adapted?

[DSEL74]

This is how I would eventually like to have this drill set up.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg241/entity49/BufJunior.jpg

Only two speed or 3 speed maybe.

I estimate the large pulley should be about 4"x1⅜" and the speed of the driving pulley (aka motor speed?) 550 RPM based on various brochures.
http://wetlands.simplyaquatics.com/d/35176-1/junior-ad.jpg


This unit in the picture is a 10" Drill which has a height of 27½" Mine at a guess would be more like 40"


Any ideas on where I could get flat pulleys or what diameters I should be using???? were the belts a standard width 1½"???

[DSEL74]

Definitely think this was a thrust bearing but it has been castrated & lost its balls
305668305647305648305637

Keyway has seen better days.
305638305644

305652305653305654305655305656


Really thinking there is something missing from in here, There is a pin on each half and those flats must have served some purpose? Maybe a return spring?????? Any ideas??
305657305658
305639305640305642305643


Rack & pinion show a little bit of wear.
305659305660305661

305662305663


This grub screw and nut hold the sleeve in place with that groove, do you think this is correct or modified??
305664305646

The butchered grub screw here which has definitely been a hack job is filled on the end to work as a key. What should it have been?????
305665305666 305645






305667

[pmcgee]

You might ask on the antique machinery section ... there are some post-drill guys there ... Vann for one ...

Re Alex Miller, I tried to find stuff here: http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=181854

They were still in Melbourne 1972 at least ... from one of the photos.
They must have had outlets all over the place.

Cheers,
Paul

[Ueee]

Thanks for all the pics, she looks like a beauty.

Sure looks like there should be a return spring in there to me.

Cheers,
Ew

[DSEL74]

Paul, thanks for the link. Looks like you found quite a few outlets.


Ew, I wonder if just a simple expansion spring was all it was or the two angled flats indicate more??




I have so many questions and the is so little info I can find. Some photos or adverts for "similar" drills, but they still don't show what is inside!


I'd love to know what mounted at the base? I can only assume it was a bracket for the stepped pulleys.

I deduce there was a two position arm with a locking screw at the elbow with guide pulleys. As the belt turns 90 deg over those guides I am thinking the tangent of the pulley would align with the centre of the drive pulley?? If I figure out the pulleys I can then work out the arc of the arm as it rotates between positions hopefully. Would the guide pulleys have bearings, or just greased up steel on steel? There isn't any bearings any where except for the one (thrust bearing) I believe should have been in the spindle.

How much crowning is required on the pulley and how much wider than the belt would they be?

What size would the second stepped pulley be if the larger was 4½" and how do I calculate the ratio of the pulley at the top to the pulley at the bottom and then to the drive pulley and to the rpm of the motor to get the correct drill speed. That is too much maths for me!

I also would like to know how the remove the chuck from the spindle. My guess is the spindle has a short taper which friction fits into the chuck?


This one might be easier to answer, drill chuck keys do they come in standard sizes?? It is missing on this drill and doesn't match the three keys I have. The chuck is un branded.



How hard would it be to set the table up perpendicular to the column and have the raised portion of the table redone on a surface grinder???


Ok I'll stop babbling on now…………..

[Steamwhisperer]

Paul, thanks for the link. Looks like you found quite a few outlets.


Ew, I wonder if just a simple expansion spring was all it was or the two angled flats indicate more??




I have so many questions and the is so little info I can find. Some photos or adverts for "similar" drills, but they still don't show what is inside!


I'd love to know what mounted at the base? I can only assume it was a bracket for the stepped pulleys.

I deduce there was a two position arm with a locking screw at the elbow with guide pulleys. As the belt turns 90 deg over those guides I am thinking the tangent of the pulley would align with the centre of the drive pulley?? If I figure out the pulleys I can then work out the arc of the arm as it rotates between positions hopefully. Would the guide pulleys have bearings, or just greased up steel on steel? There isn't any bearings any where except for the one (thrust bearing) I believe should have been in the spindle.

How much crowning is required on the pulley and how much wider than the belt would they be?

What size would the second stepped pulley be if the larger was 4½" and how do I calculate the ratio of the pulley at the top to the pulley at the bottom and then to the drive pulley and to the rpm of the motor to get the correct drill speed. That is too much maths for me!

I also would like to know how the remove the chuck from the spindle. My guess is the spindle has a short taper which friction fits into the chuck?


This one might be easier to answer, drill chuck keys do they come in standard sizes?? It is missing on this drill and doesn't match the three keys I have. The chuck is un branded.



How hard would it be to set the table up perpendicular to the column and have the raised portion of the table redone on a surface grinder???


Ok I'll stop babbling on now…………..

Hi Dale,
I have info on the crowning of pulleys that I will dig up for you.
I also found the sheet you drew up for the drill specs you were after a while back (must do that).
Another thing I will try and locate at work is a 'Miller' brochure or any info we may have on them as a fair bit of our mining machinery came from Millers.
Great bit of work so far by the way.

Phil

[DSEL74]

Hi Dale,
I have info on the crowning of pulleys that I will dig up for you.
I also found the sheet you drew up for the drill specs you were after a while back (must do that).
Another thing I will try and locate at work is a 'Miller' brochure or any info we may have on them as a fair bit of our mining machinery came from Millers.
Great bit of work so far by the way.

Phil


Thanks Phil it be much appreciated.



I have been going over my options for the pulleys, finding existing ones (unlikely), modifying some steel castors (limited in size & width), making some seems like what I will have to do. I have considered steel, brass, and wooden ones. I may go with wooden ones at least to start with as a prototype, as you know many prototypes end up working so well they never get upgraded. I know the large wooden ones were segmented, in your experience do you think solid ones would work fine, and should the shaft run parallel to the grain?



I'm thinking the chuck may be removed like this??
http://www.jacobschuck.com/images/tech-support/tapered-shank-chuck-removal.jpg

[Steamwhisperer]

Here is a start. I know I have more so I will keep searching.

Phil

[DSEL74]

Here is a start. I know I have more so I will keep searching.

Phil


Thanks Phil. I'll have a good read of those.

Do you have access to leather flat belting and lacing?? Or a supplier?

[Steamwhisperer]

Thanks Phil. I'll have a good read of those.

Do you have access to leather flat belting and lacing?? Or a supplier?

We still have a tannery in Ballarat. All our lacing comes from them. Not belts though. Seems the big beasts aren't around anymore. Camels were used for belting as well.

Phil

[hiroller]

This looks similar:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/pillar-drill-/271409504287?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item3f3144601f

[DSEL74]

There are some similarities, he claims it is a UK drill with a USA gearbox???? Has Superior written on the body. Which I have seen on US drills.



Here is me trying to work out what to do next…
Duct tape and masking tape pulleys…Should work yeah..maybe with a little WD40
305861

Stripped the paint back off the centre of the table and it is almost rough cast?? Either that or it was seriously rust pitted before and cleaned filled and painted.. Needs to be reground:C
305859305860



Thinking og making a little depth stop for it, cardboard and a scribe for mock up.
305863


Need to make some sort of bracket for the rear pulleys to fit to this. Love to find a proper stepped cone pulley with a mount..
305858





Just so I remember the make :;
305862305864

[DSEL74]

Examples of the rear Pulleys and Drive Pulley.

305865305866305867305871305868





Tried a spring like this for the return but it didn't work.
305870
It needs to be a coil/clock spring.
305869
This one is from a more modern Walker Turner I think.
305872




I might be able to make this out of some brass all thread to go in my cardboard mounts?
305873

[DSEL74]

If I could find a little bracket like these it would make life a whole lot easier..

305874305875305876305877305878

Any ideas on finding one, maybe a old belt drive grinder, small lathe headstock or some thing else i could repurpose??

[Oldneweng]

This looks similar:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/pillar-dri...item3f3144601f (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/pillar-drill-/271409504287?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item3f3144601f)

All up, that is some machine. Notice that the table surface is not shown.

DSEL, the table on your drill is unusual. I am interested in the reason for such a design. A facing cut on a mill or shaper would be enough for a drill press table. I may be difficult to mount for a cleanup cut tho. I don't suppose there are machined surfaces underneath to register? May have to use the column mount to set it level. Not a lot of clamping options when drilling on it. How solid is the table?

My immediate thought for cone pulleys was to fabricate them from pipe etc. I would suggest a search around scrap yards. Not exactly an original thought.:rolleyes:

Dean

[DSEL74]

This looks similar:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/pillar-dri...item3f3144601f (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/pillar-drill-/271409504287?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item3f3144601f)

All up, that is some machine. Notice that the table surface is not shown.

DSEL, the table on your drill is unusual. I am interested in the reason for such a design. A facing cut on a mill or shaper would be enough for a drill press table. I may be difficult to mount for a cleanup cut tho. I don't suppose there are machined surfaces underneath to register? May have to use the column mount to set it level. Not a lot of clamping options when drilling on it. How solid is the table?

My immediate thought for cone pulleys was to fabricate them from pipe etc. I would suggest a search around scrap yards. Not exactly an original thought.:rolleyes:

Dean



Dean the table is mega solid and weighs a tonne!!

The underside has round edged tapered webs so, no there is no registration surface. It would have to some how be held via the column clamp internal surface or left on the column. I don't have facilities or knowledge to do anything much more than scotchbrite it. Be nice to have the arc of shame filled before any real attempts to resurface.

The design is quite unusual the centre is raised and there is no lip on the upper edge, underneath I think it has a round bead. Not ideal for any sort of clamping work to the table.

[Oldneweng]

Be nice to have the arc of shame filled before any real attempts to resurface.


No need to worry. I have lost count of the number of comments I have read or viewed regarding the happy smile being there "when I bought it".:rolleyes:


It would still be better not to have that uneven surface to deal with. Not all that easy to fix. One of the meat filling products. Other members would know much more than me. This issue was mentioned recently in another thread.

My drill press has a small nick on the inside bore of the round table where I miscalculated. I now run the spindle down until it enters the bore and make sure the drill bit is in the centre, even if I am not going to drill to table depth.

Dean

[DSEL74]

As some showed interest here are some photos of the underside of the table.

306004306005306006306007306008306009306010

[RayG]

Hi Dale,

Did you find out anything about the company? What RSB stands for, where they were made etc..

Ray

[DSEL74]

Hi Dale,

Did you find out anything about the company? What RSB stands for, where they were made etc..

Ray


Hi Ray.

My best guess is they were made in the UK, I have seen to other camelbacks and a lathe with the same logo. None of the people who had those items have returned my emails unfortunately.
So what RSb actually stands for maybe it relates to people who buy these cantankerous old machines because they will never find parts or info on them…. Really Stoopid Bast…...


The most informative source was here, relating to the RSB lathe
http://www.lathes.co.uk/rsb/



RSB Lathe

Looking similar to the well-known "Relm (http://www.lathes.co.uk/relm)" lathes, the RSB might have been made by Breeds, in Leeds, a company with a connection to Relm and whose lathes were sometimes branded "Atlas". The only known surviving example, the machine shown below, is of 3-inch centre height and 12 inches between centres and would have been made during the first decade of the 20th century for the amateur market. The bed, very lightly constructed with thin walls, was of typically English style with a flat top, V-edged ways and provided with a decent gap.
Cast as-one with bed, the headstock lacked a speed-reducing backgear - though the 3-step pulley was of both an unusually generous diameter and width - so helping to give the flat belt an improved grip. Where simple and cheap split headstock bearings might have been expected (and cracked castings as a result of enthusiastic over-tightening), the RSB had a proper 2-bolt cap type that survived the decades unmolested.
Screwcutting was by changewheels mounted on a L-shaped bracket and through a very fine-pitch leadscrew fitted with a large balanced handwheel at its tailstock end, a dog-clutch by headstock and a full nut bolted to the underside of the saddle - there being no necessity for a conventional apron. The full nut appears to have been split and fitted with an adjustment bolt at its lower end - an unusual specification on a lathe of this class.
A single swivelling tool-slide was provided, carried in a traverse T slot in the saddle - with two more slots provided running longitudinally down the right-hand saddle wings - and so providing the facility of a handy boring table. Judging from the thickness of the saddle and top-slide castings, it's likely that sufficient room was available to fit a proper compound slide rest, something that the maker may well have offered at extra cost.
If any reader has an RSB lathe the writer ([email protected]) would be interested to hear from you.




Ironically Tony finishes his webpage requesting any info readers maybe able to share…….Well he hasn't responded to my email with photos and info of my drill and asking if he has learned any more since he posted the page..




So far no leads on a Miller Cattledog either

[Ueee]

Ironically Tony finishes his webpage requesting any info readers maybe able to share…….Well he hasn't responded to my email with photos and info of my drill and asking if he has learned any more since he posted the page..


I have heard some guys saying Tony has always replied promptly etc etc....

I have sent him maybe 4 emails over the past 5 or 6 years and not had one reply....

Ew

[DSEL74]

It has been suggested that RSB stands for Relm, Smart & Brown, but I can find no reference to the combine name, and only lathes for Relm or Smart & Brown

[RayG]

It has been suggested that RSB stands for Relm, Smart & Brown, but I can find no reference to the combine name, and only lathes for Relm or Smart & Brown

Not sure I'm entirely convinced by that idea, :) I've been looking on Grace's Guide and other likely places.. I did find a reference in a 1931 Sydney newspaper to an RSB Pillar Drill being sold at auction... not much help.

Ray

[jhovel]

The drill return springs are now available cheaply on eBay. Look for 'drill press springs'. E.g.: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/380819738584 which are now returning the Waldown and the Servian quills here.

[DSEL74]

Not sure I'm entirely convinced by that idea, :) I've been looking on Grace's Guide and other likely places.. I did find a reference in a 1931 Sydney newspaper to an RSB Pillar Drill being sold at auction... not much help.

Ray


I'm not convinced either, the may have been some relationship between the companies in the area but they seem to be distinctly badged not producing items under a joint name. Dunno.

Does it give any specs in the newspaper ad, or what it sold for??






The drill return springs are now available cheaply on eBay. Look for 'drill press springs'. E.g.: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/380819738584 which are now returning the Waldown and the Servian quills here.


Thanks for that. Did you get the same spec spring for both the Waldown & Servian?? I see the come in different lengths and coil diameters. I would suspect this in turn equates to tension or force required to pull the lever forward and potential kick back.

Full travel of the quill in my drill equates to a 280Deg rotation of the handle…. Would a smaller spring be better in my case?? Not sure how to select the appropriate one..



I also note that they suggest using them as vacuum cleaner coil spring, volume tube coil spring, safety belt coil spring. Pity there is no hard rubbish currently, I may have been able to find a few to test from old vacuums. I assume they are use to retract the cord.

[RayG]

Hi Dale,

The reference appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald on 19th August 1931, in a machinery auction listing.

306180

The SCRUTTON RSB might be a clue... but so far it hasn't led anywhere usefull..

Ray

[DSEL74]

Hi Dale,

The reference appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald on 19th August 1931, in a machinery auction listing.

306180

The SCRUTTON RSB might be a clue... but so far it hasn't led anywhere usefull..

Ray

SCRUTTON RSB Pillar Drill, R and F Table with 7½In swing, Cone Drive.

R and F - I assume that to be rise & fall.

First I have heard of Scrutton.

[DSEL74]

About the only kind of relate Scruton reference I could find, they had a foundry and exported but looks like the wrong kind of product.


ABOUT WILFRED SCRUTON LTDWilfred Scruton Ltd is a well known and family run business located in the heart of the Yorkshire wolds. We have evolved over the last 100 years to become one of the main Agricultural Engineers/Dealers in the country and worldwide export.

Wilfred Scruton Ltd is a long-established and family-run agricultural machinery dealership. The business began in 1896 as a foundry, casting plough shares and fabricating horse ploughs etc. incorporating a joiner’s workshop repairing cart wheels, sheep troughs and tumbrils.
Of course, this was all back when farmers bought locally-manufactured implements from their local blacksmith. As the industry had evolved, so has the company; with our customers reading articles and visiting events worldwide to find the most appropriate machinery for their budget and requirements, the company has gradually grown into a dealership with local and international suppliers.





The Sydney Morning Herald, Wednesday 13 June 1923
SCRUTTONS MODERN MACHINERY

306238

MACHINERY,
SCRUTTONS MODERN MACHINERY.


BROWN and SHARPE UNIVERSAL GRINDERS.BROWN and SHARPE UNIVERSAL MILLERS.BROWN and" SHARPE SURFACE GRINDERS.
BROWN and SHARPE AUTO. SCllEW MACHINE&BROWN and SHARPE WIRE FEED SCBEWEBS.
... , , Also from Stock
4|in Atkinson Lathe 71n Barnes Lathe
61 n Monk« Lathe Tim Colchester Latheojln Sterling Lathe Bin Q.O. Cisco Lathe
5»ln HolbroPk Lathe 8jin Pickersgill Lathe«Jin Colchester Lathe 84ln Denham Lathe7In Holbrook Lathe din Mitchell Lathe
,'ln Q.C, Claco Lath« l£lln Stanley Lathe
«In x ftt Scrutton Carape Lathe.6In x 6t Scrutton Garage Lathe.
Pin x 8ft Scrutton Heavy Duty Lathe.
Vin x 8ft Scrutton Heavy Duty Uth- .
Min Scrutton Upright Driller,»in Scrutton Upright Driller.
WE SI'T.I, FOR CASHOR ON EASY TERMS
raancLABS woodworking machinery.
Inspect the following Items;8ln Bench Jointer» I^the Heads
20In Hnlgh Jointer« gefn Knife Grinder?"S Saws Spindle Moulder«llndial Arm Sander» Swing Saw»
36in B.n. Bandsav.« Saw Guiltier»
join B.B. Bandsawa 18In Thlckneiser»,
20in and 24 in Thicknetser»
- --/
SCRUTTONS, LIMITED,
lui Clar»nce-strcet, '
I SYDNEY. -



Scruttons may have been Like Miller Machinery on the brass plaque a reseller, again similar to McPhersons. Or maybe a local manufacturer with some links to the UK?

[jhovel]

Thanks for that. Did you get the same spec spring for both the Waldown & Servian?? I see the come in different lengths and coil diameters. I would suspect this in turn equates to tension or force required to pull the lever forward and potential kick back.

Full travel of the quill in my drill equates to a 280Deg rotation of the handle…. Would a smaller spring be better in my case?? Not sure how to select the appropriate one..

I also note that they suggest using them as vacuum cleaner coil spring, volume tube coil spring, safety belt coil spring. Pity there is no hard rubbish currently, I may have been able to find a few to test from old vacuums. I assume they are use to retract the cord.


I selected mine based on images of the Servian and the broken spring in the Waldown - and the width and diameter of the space available.
I settled on 7 turns and 50mm diameter. Then I looked at the proportions of the spring thickness in their photo. The two springs I got were a little thinner material than the original Waldown spring but there is a fair bit of adjustment in their preload. I set it to go up lightly with the chuck on the quill on both.

[DSEL74]

Thanks for the info Joe.




306347

Hi Dale, below is a scan of an illustration of a drill that looks similar to the one in your photo's. It is from a catalogue from a supplier by the name of Croager Bros. who had a place in Homerton, London. There is no date in the catalogue, but I'm guessing it was around 1939 as there is a footnote pasted in about certain piricees may be subject to change owing to the outbreak of war. It dosn't state what make except that it is British.

Not the foot shifter, so you can switch between the slow-fast pulleys and turn the drill on & off whilst still at work.



I'm following this guy up in the hope he can give me some details on the headstock cone pulley, bearings and any keyways etc.


I have a 'RSB' lathe which I have always assumed was made in the 1920's. For many years I have never been able to find any reference to RSB or ever heard of another machine than my own, or ever met anyone who has heard of RSB Sometime last year the 'Lathes UK' site suddenly published photos of a virtual facsimile to my machine and states that it is the only one known (although my own is in much better condition) Here is the link (for what it's worth) to the site page;http://www.lathes.co.uk/rsb/

[DSEL74]

Ok I have a question on bearing surfaces and tolerances.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305663&d=1393400243&thumb=1 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305663&d=1393400243)


The Spindle drive pulley would be fixed to the top sleeve by a grub screw or bolt. These turn as one and run directly on the machined top surface and the bore in the cast iron body. Note oil or grease nipple on front.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305646&d=1393400144&thumb=1 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305646&d=1393400144)


They are soley located by a groove in the top sleeve and locking grub screw through the cast body.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305664&d=1393400249&thumb=1 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305664&d=1393400249)



There is a second grub screw filed on the end to a key in the top sleeve, which mates with the spindle key seat and drives the spindle. Not a lot of surface area for power transfer. This doesn't look original to me.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305665&d=1393400255&thumb=1 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305665&d=1393400255)http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305666&d=1393400260&thumb=1 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305666&d=1393400260)http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305638&d=1393400097&thumb=1 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305638&d=1393400097)



The spindle has two locking nuts, over a brass thrust bearing race, the bottom of the race machined into the top of the quill.
Inside the quill is a oil groove with a side feed hole.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305654&d=1393400189&thumb=1 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305654&d=1393400189)http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305637&d=1393400090&thumb=1 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305637&d=1393400090)http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305647&d=1393400150&thumb=1 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305647&d=1393400150)



There is a brass Washer at the base of the quill, with a locating ridge running circular around the top mid point, mating up with a groove on the base of the quill.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305656&d=1393400201&thumb=1 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305656&d=1393400201)


The quill runs directly up the hole in the main casting. The casting does have a slit cut the full depth and a clamping bolt which will close the hole up on the quill slightly for adjustment.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305863&d=1393593976&thumb=1 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305863&d=1393593976)http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305668&d=1393400272&thumb=1 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=305668&d=1393400272)




306367





So that is for the description, now for the questions:




Where is the main bearing surface to keep the machine drilling square? No run out.




How much run out is considered acceptable




On each of these shafts and bore what tolerance/fit should there be? Also what affect does grease or oil have in this.




The quill and spindle appeared to have black bearing grease on them, would this be correct




Restoration vs repair - To make this drill a regular user should I look at adding bearing cases to the drill as per more modern drills? Keep in mind this drill seems to be extremely rare but missing a larger portion of original parts. Although new parts could be made and original ones kept with drill.




In the thrust bearing would the loose balls have been packed with grease




Are bearing cases more accurate and better than bronze bearings, or just less maintenance

[DSEL74]

Better look at the bottom of the table. Some pretty rough casting work really.

306373


A few hours of hand sanding has cleaned up the pillar. Would like to using a buffing wheel and some rouge on it to get into the scratches and pitting. Don't have any of that kit though.
306374306375306376306377


Figure the locking nuts are supposed to be tightened with one of these…..Known as a Hook Spanner or "C" Spanner. Now where do I find one the correct size??????
I think those nuts need replacing also they are a bit chewed up.
306378306379
That nipple was full of grease, by the way.




Played around with making a little mock clamp for locking the arm.
306380

[Ueee]

You can get adjustable C spanners, they do say 25-50mm etc. I have bought mine locally, here is one on ebay though http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Draper-Adjustable-Hook-Wrench-C-Spanner-3-4-2-19-51mm-/360863250402?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item54052037e2

Ew

[DSEL74]

You can get adjustable C spanners, they do say 25-50mm etc. I have bought mine locally, here is one on ebay though http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Draper-Adjustable-Hook-Wrench-C-Spanner-3-4-2-19-51mm-/360863250402?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item54052037e2

Ew


Have to look into it. Thanks

From memory it is someplace around 31-32mm those collars/nuts.

[anglesmith]

DSEL74 I looked through all my catalogues with no result, but then my googlling came up with this ! ? http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1917/1917%20-%200849.PDF
Graeme

[DSEL74]

DSEL74 I looked through all my catalogues with no result, but then my googlling came up with this ! ? http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1917/1917%20-%200849.PDF
Graeme

No I hadn't seen that and it is absolutely fantastic!!!!!:2tsup:

The model shown is slightly different to mine and I wonder if it is the heavier one mentioned later on.

Knowing the name: Messers. R. S. Brookman and Co. of Britain is a great lead. They say anyone interested can write to them for a copy of their booklet covering all machines with up to date prices. I wonder if they will still send me a copy:no:

Interesting it mentions a number of optional table variations. mine I guess would be: The angled or drop sided table in the square.

[DSEL74]

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/28595/pages/2447/page.pdf

RSB stands for Richard Samuel Brookman… R.S. Brookman & Co.
Looks like he had a partner (who didn't get his name on the door) and bought him out on the 16th March 1912.

[RayG]

DSEL74 I looked through all my catalogues with no result, but then my googlling came up with this ! ? http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1917/1917%20-%200849.PDF
Graeme

Nice work! that might just be the clue that unlocks the mystery..

Here is Grace's Guide for R.S.Brookman. Note the reference to a 1967 patent?

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/R._S._Brookman

That London Gazette, might not be the same Brookman, might be his father? That was in Middlesex, the 1930's RSB is in Leicestershire ?

Ray

[DSEL74]

In the listing from 1939 they are shown as R.S.Brookman Ltd so there was a slight name change. From Co. to Ltd


R.S.Brookman Ltd are known for their dovetailer, which on the ones I have seen don't have an RSB logo but a Brookman logo.

[http://www.gregory-woodworking.co.uk/catalog/product_thumb.php?img=images/brookman_dovetailer.jpg&w=450&h=299http://media.scosarg.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/470x355/4b42fa8531d652c55be1d3a76d0229c9/m/a/mabm15dt.jpghttp://greenfieldsfinefurniture.com/web/images/stories/manufacturers/brookman.jpg





A 1938 issue of The Architect & Building News has a news snippet:
R. S. BROOKMAN LTD.—This firm are showing for the first time at the Building Exhibition. Their principal machines will be a versatile dovetailer, equally at home on mineral water boxes and high-grade cabinet work, and a mortiser, adaptable for single pieces or for fast repetitive work.
Listed in a 1992 issue of Wood Technology as a maker of mortisers and dovetailers.

[anglesmith]

Nice work! that might just be the clue that unlocks the mystery..

Here is Grace's Guide for R.S.Brookman. Note the reference to a 1967 patent?

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/R._S._Brookman

That London Gazette, might not be the same Brookman, might be his father? That was in Middlesex, the 1930's RSB is in Leicestershire ?

Ray

Yes I also think R S Brookman "Ltd" that made woodworking machinery from the 1930s onward is a different firm to R S Brookman "& Co" of 1917 or so.
DSEL I think your machine is much earlier than 1917 note also the article says that they could put together 140 different patterns or styles !
Graeme

[DSEL74]

London Gazette:
Richard Samuel Brookman… R.S. Brookman & Co.
Looks like he had a partner (who didn't get his name on the door) and bought him out on the 16th March 1912.
91 & 93, Richmond-Rd, Twickenham, Middlesex
(Motor Engineers & Carriers)




The 1917 Advert:
Messrs. R. S. Brookman and Co.
14 Wellesley Avenue, Hammersmith, W.

Definitely sell drills of the correct type under R.S.B.





R. S. BROOKMAN LTD
of Russell Street Works, Loughborough, Leicestershire Telephone: 2211. Telegraphic Address: "Brookman, 2211, Loughborough"

1932 Patent - Improvements in mortising, boring and similar woodworking machines.1937 Listed Exhibitor -British Industries Fair. Multi-Spindle Ball Bearing Dovetailers, fully automatic and lever type. To cut all types and sizes of Dovetails, Hydraulectric Morticers, chain or chisel. "Electromatic", fully automatic or foot pedal control. (Stand No. B.706)[1] (http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/R._S._Brookman#cite_note-1)1967 Patent - Rotary Tools.
1938 Dovetailer

[DSEL74]

The Middlesex and Hammersmith addresses are 15 min by car apart or 1hr 45min walking distance.