Not more sheds

[Shedscientist]

A few years back I wrote a book called Blokes and Sheds which sold very well and made me a sort of spokesman for slighlty grumpy not so old men.
Now, after about 7 or 8 years of procrastination, I've decided to do another one called (wait for it) Blokes and Sheds 2 or More Damn Sheds or The Deep Shed or some such title.
In my travels some of the best sheds I have seen were the woodworking variety. I'm a pretty hopeless woodworker myself but that doesn't stop me appreciating the joys of wrecking timber and all the things that go with it.
I'm still working out how the new book will be different from the last one other than more of the same. It will be looking a lot more about resourcefulness and clever use of materials, how to get people into using their hands more (I'm a bit worried that we're not tackling the skills shortages issues at all) and just generally trying to make it an interesting and thought provoking book.
If you know of an interesting shed and someone with a good story attached to it let me know.

[ozwinner]

If you know of an interesting shed and someone with a good story attached to it let me know.

A fella by the name of Jeff Kennet has a really nice shed in Melbourne.

Al :D

[Robert WA]

If you happen to be in Katanning in WA have a look at the antique/junk shop on the highway called "The Goose's Bridle" and, particularly, its associated "Bloke's Shed".

While you are in the West, come and talk my wife into letting me buy the pump-up, glass dome petrol bowser that is for sale at the Shed.

OK, so I don't need one; but I want one!

[journeyman Mick]

Shedscientist,
read and liked your book! :) I will PM you a picture of a shed you'll really like for your book. Not so much woodwork orientated, more like a MA & Pa kettle farm/I'm not throwing anything out in case it comes in handy, but what makes it really different is that it's only metres from the post office and busy main street.

Mick

[vsquizz]

Shedscientist, Welcome

If you ever get the urge to go to Kalbarri in WA send me a PM and I'll put you in touch with a shed that is a real typical, mother of necessity, DIYer Aussie shed.

Loved the book too.

Cheers

[Richardwoodhead]

Enjoyed your book. My wife bought me a copy for Christmas after it came out. Because I'm a shedaholic. I'm embarrassed to say I've built almost 1,000 square meters of adjoining and stand alone sheds on my farm. Most of them devoted to woodworking & timber storage. Each time I think I have enough storage / work space, I think, well, maybe just one more shed..... I have a very understanding wife.... If you're ever in Margaret River......

Richard

[gatiep]

Richard you can rightfully claim to be farming with sheds! I could do with 1000 sq meters plus a few sheds but the shire will be just a tad unhappy.

:eek:

[Richardwoodhead]

Shedscientist & others, you gotta read the "my non-existant shed story" thread by rufflyrustic. Really funny.

Richard

[RufflyRustic]

Hi and Welcome ShedScientist!

I too loved your book! Read it from cover to cover and back again. :)

I can appreciate the book and it's theme, but..... (yep you guessed it) when are we woodworking women (WWW) gonna have our work areas featured in a book??????? I think Jill's Verandah Entry story is great, who knows, maybe mine might make a mention. It's not that I want to encroach, but maybe get a bit of acknowledgement not only for myself but for other WWW yoo, that it's not just the men that have interesting shed/work areas with stories attached.

Ouch! <- me falling off my soapbox.

Anyway, whatever happens, I'll still be very interested to read your next book.

Cheers
RufflyRustic (the one with the non-existant shed :) )

[Caliban]

Shedscientist
My mates and I love your book, it has gone from the only book allowed in the dunny (until we all knew it off by heart and were quoting bits of it-seriously need a life :D )
Now it has pride of place in the shed, next to the beer fridge.
If you're in Toukley give us a yell, but you'll need a rope tied to you in case you get lost in there.

[Shedscientist]

Hmmm sheds of the rich and famous... I'm not sure how to deal with that. (although the publishers love the idea of course) Mostly the rich and famous have other people do shed-like things for them. I suuspect if I did a few, it could look a bit tragic - a few cardboard boxes that the home cinema came in, a mountain bike bought for exercise bit never used, lots of old magazines, some crumby chinese tools for when they thought they might try to fix up something, That's about it really.
Does Kennett really have a shed? Still it might have some nice ladders in it...

[Shedscientist]

Shedscientist
My mates and I love your book, it has gone from the only book allowed in the dunny (until we all knew it off by heart and were quoting bits of it-seriously need a life :D )
Now it has pride of place in the shed, next to the beer fridge.
If you're in Toukley give us a yell, but you'll need a rope tied to you in case you get lost in there.
Hovo
Thanks mate. Any suggestions about what could go in the next book. I've come across some interesting sheds as a result of the first book. One of the slightly weird things to happen and one of the reasons why I'm doing another book is the rapid growth of the therapy shed. There are hundreds of them generally run by local councils/health organisations/charities etc as a way of getting men to talk about "issues"?
I'm not sure whether they are an entirely good thing or not. Some of it is a bit patronising and assumes men havent got the gumption to look after themselves.
Anybody got any thoughts on this?

[Shedscientist]

Hi and Welcome ShedScientist!

I too loved your book! Read it from cover to cover and back again. :)

I can appreciate the book and it's theme, but..... (yep you guessed it) when are we woodworking women (WWW) gonna have our work areas featured in a book??????? I think Jill's Verandah Entry story is great, who knows, maybe mine might make a mention. It's not that I want to encroach, but maybe get a bit of acknowledgement not only for myself but for other WWW yoo, that it's not just the men that have interesting shed/work areas with stories attached.

Ouch! <- me falling off my soapbox.

Anyway, whatever happens, I'll still be very interested to read your next book.

Cheers
RufflyRustic (the one with the non-existant shed :) )
Rufflyrustic
That's a fair point. When I did Blokes and Shdeds I had no idea I would have my backside kicked by tribes of women media commentators etc etc. (I held my own though). The title was just an observation of how things were. I just didn't find many women with sheds. I'm happy that anyone (male or female) has a space where they can muck around to their hearts content and not worry about what people expect of them. SO do I put women in the second book? Hell I don't know! Why mess up a good thing? But does the exception prove the rule?
ANy advice about this subject gladly taken on....

[zenwood]

Welcome, Shedscientist.

Loved your book, which probably contributed to my desire for a shed of my own. Some of us refer to our sheds as sanity-savers. We sit in front of computers all day, and to come home and make a physical object is very satisfying. It's also a domain where you can excercise control as an individual. I guess many men don't have that level of control in the family home or other environments. Sheds also provide a space for community (just like this forum, see threads: "the great dovetail challenge" and shed pics under "Drew's Shed"). All these are a kind of therapy I guess, though, as you say, the idea of therapy is a bit condescending, yet probably has a grain of truth. Council therapy sheds could be interesting: I feel you could probably handle it well.

I would be interested in a follow-on book including female shed-users. Celebrity sheds doesn't quite smell right to me: we get saturation 'celebrity' on the media and don't need more. What I liked about the first book was the way it 'celebrated' ordinariness.

Please keep us posted on progress with this book. It'll be fascinating to follow, and I'm sure you'll get lots of feedback from this forum.:D

[Shedscientist]

Welcome, Shedscientist.

Loved your book, which probably contributed to my desire for a shed of my own. Some of us refer to our sheds as sanity-savers. We sit in front of computers all day, and to come home and make a physical object is very satisfying. It's also a domain where you can excercise control as an individual. I guess many men don't have that level of control in the family home or other environments. Sheds also provide a space for community (just like this forum, see threads: "the great dovetail challenge" and shed pics under "Drew's Shed"). All these are a kind of therapy I guess, though, as you say, the idea of therapy is a bit condescending, yet probably has a grain of truth. Council therapy sheds could be interesting: I feel you could probably handle it well.

I would be interested in a follow-on book including female shed-users. Celebrity sheds doesn't quite smell right to me: we get saturation 'celebrity' on the media and don't need more. What I liked about the first book was the way it 'celebrated' ordinariness.

Please keep us posted on progress with this book. It'll be fascinating to follow, and I'm sure you'll get lots of feedback from this forum.:D
Zenwood
The idea of community sheds (as against planned ones organised by health professionals - bless their little cotton socks) is an interesting one. I've been to a meeting of the Williamstown Shed Club which is just a bunch of fellas in Williamstown who have a monthly meeting in one of their members sheds and just hang around, have a bit to eat, tell a few tall tales and have a drink or three - then walk or ride their bikes home. Interesting how drink driving rules have changed things and how people have adapted their lives to incorporate a bit of fun. In your own area there's the Lions Shed on Shepherds Hill Road which on Saturday morning is a scene of bargainhunting chaos. There's an interesting sort of socialising there too - a bit more organised.
That's true about celebrities - the ones I've met tend to carry their egos around with them like some sort of enormous guts, using it to push other people out of their way.
I want the book (like every other book I've done really) to be about unacknowledged creativity. Creativity is hard to talk about because it's had some bad press, and there is an artificial divide between officially creative people "artists" - whacky zany types and everybody else. I think everybody has some sort of creative spirit and a lot of shed stuff is about getting a creative kick. As someone famous (Picasso or somebody) once said: "I never saw a child's drawing I didn't like".

[RufflyRustic]

Couldn't have said it better myself Zenwood!!

ShedScientist - keep your themes going, men and sheds, it's a great theme! But I don't see why a couple of Female zones couldn't appear in there too, just to acknowledge that there have been, are and will be some females who have the great work areas and I don't mean the husband and wives teams either. Totally agree - the 'ordinariness' of the people and sheds is what made the book fantastic.

I think community sheds are a great idea. I know my Dad would really enjoy it, especially if it was more than a counselling session, i.e. some wood work happened along the way. How to make it therapeutic, without being overtly therapeutic and patronising......

Definitely no celebrity anything!

cheers
RufflyRustic

[Studley 2436]

Nice to have you here Shedscientist! There are a few of us here in SA with sheds. The theme of therapy and sheds is great. I know it does me a world of good being able to get out to the shed and do stuff. It's a bit of an enclave or escape from life. You can refresh there and be set to get back into it.

I don't mind if celebrities get in the book but sheds should be the focus. A celeb with a ton of money thrown at having all the shiny gear that they don't put to much use would be pretty boring but one with something to contribute well why not.

You should check out Drews Shed. He has a very nice setup for sharpening his many planes. A sheet of plate glass with different grades of emery paper glued on. Simple idea but very effective. We all deal with space problems machinery problems etc and I am sure there are a ton of really clever solutions to all these difficulties that people would love to see.

Blokes and Blokesses *G*

Who takes your photographs? If you need help on that front let me know.

Stevo

[keith53]

Hello Shedscientist & welcome,

I've often wondered why I feel so damn good just going down to the shed & after reading these posts, I'm beginning to see why... I haven't read your book yet but hope to soon (my missus is a librarian and I've asked her to see if a copy is available).

In my case, and I'm sure many others, it would be good if your new book could spend some time on the psychology of shed attraction and how this generally, (ruffly & others excepted) is a male domain, why they like it so much and how important it is to many of them. I'm doing a pretty miserable job of doing such explaining myself at the moment so maybe a third-party account will save me a lot of angst...

If you want more research material, a shed tour could probably be arranged here on the Sunshine Coast as well..:)
Cheers,
Keith

[Rabbit]

I did a search on abebooks.com and found several copies but shipping is near twice the price of the book. Just guessing, I'd say that must reflect costs from Oz. Wonderin' if I might find a copy in North America.

rabbit

[numbat]

I did a search on abebooks.com and found several copies but shipping is near twice the price of the book. Just guessing, I'd say that must reflect costs from Oz. Wonderin' if I might find a copy in North America.

rabbit
Rabbit,

Try here http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0207198233/qid=1118808668/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-0099535-8727311

I dont know if you realise thats its not particularly cheap to ship books from the US to here either.

Cheers

[DarrylF]

Hi & welcome to the madhouse :)


If you know of an interesting shed and someone with a good story attached to it let me know.
How about 'Geeks & Sheds' for the title of your next book?? :D

It interests me that so many of the people getting into woodworking as a hobby seem to be geeks - to a greater or lesser degree :) There were about 8 of us who met at the wood show in Sydney recently. 7 at least worked in IT in one way or the other. Seems like most of the people here are either pro/semi-pro woodworkers, retired, or work in & around technology.

I'm not sure if that is a general trend, but it seems to me there's a real basic need to produce something substantial and be creative in our lives. And working in front of a computer doesn't fill that need usually, so more people seem to be finding hobbies that give us that outlet.

Anyway - a thought for the melting pot on how you might approach the next book :)

[silentC]

I'm not sure if that is a general trend, but it seems to me there's a real basic need to produce something substantial and be creative in our lives. And working in front of a computer doesn't fill that need usually, so more people seem to be finding hobbies that give us that outlet.

That may be true in a lot of cases - depends on what it is you do behind the computer. I guess a lot of middle management paper pushers, support types and so on get little in the way of creative release in their day jobs. I spend most of my time building and maintaining software, so I do see that as a creative outlet of sorts.

Actually, for my part, I took up the tools long before I ever sat in front of a computer. Having said that, I certainly look forward to getting into the shed each afternoon and would rather be there than here any day of the week.

One observation I would make is that there is a definite 'class' of woodworker who comes from a white collar background and who takes up the hobby by filling their sheds with expensive tools, machinery and timber. Looking at some of the merchandise at the show, there's definitely a market there for the cashed up 30-40 something. I bet someone could do a thesis on it. We need a name for them.

[forunna]

ShedScientist, got ya book and love it.
The Basic Model cracked me up.
I vote for simply a Vol.2. I'd buy it.
Dont mess with it too much, maybe just a hint of a theme.
You're welcome to check out my shed. With a wife and three daughters I spend some time in there. Dont do a huge amount of wood work, just "muck around" and "tidy up" a lot. :-)

[namtrak]

Zenwood
The idea of community sheds.........meeting in one of their members sheds and just hang around, have a bit to eat, tell a few tall tales and have a drink or three - then walk or ride their bikes home......

A community shed? Is that what it's called? I just thought we were getting on the turps at Jim's joint. We rotate between a few sheds around the neighbourhood - the woodworking one, the metal work one, the TV watching one and so on. The pride and joy at the moment is the newly built - old style outdoor type fireplace where we admire the handcrafted Ned Kelly masks and tell each other how good we are - what else is there?

As for a title what about: "Shedding our skin: Australian men and women the human hermit crabs"

[zenwood]

I think we need to meet and talk about this shed project. How about at someone's;) SHED? It could be very tharapeutic.

Any takers?

[Shedscientist]

I know that Katanning shed - I've been there! And it's good.
There's an even more interestng one in Katanning - Wake's Garage, which is where Ralph Sarich did his time as an apprentice machanic. John Wake, the old guy who owns it is now retired and goes in there intermittently. Underneath a lot of rusting metal is an orbital engine from the 1950s. There's a story there...

[Shedscientist]

Couldn't have said it better myself Zenwood!!

ShedScientist - keep your themes going, men and sheds, it's a great theme! But I don't see why a couple of Female zones couldn't appear in there too, just to acknowledge that there have been, are and will be some females who have the great work areas and I don't mean the husband and wives teams either. Totally agree - the 'ordinariness' of the people and sheds is what made the book fantastic.

I think community sheds are a great idea. I know my Dad would really enjoy it, especially if it was more than a counselling session, i.e. some wood work happened along the way. How to make it therapeutic, without being overtly therapeutic and patronising......

Definitely no celebrity anything!

cheers
RufflyRustic
Ruffly Rustic
Thanks for that It's all good stuff. I thought of some slightly weird celebrity types such as the writer Tim Winton (who is suspect would have a good useful shed full of fishing gear and the like) or the cartoonist Michael Leunig who is a distinctly sheddy sort living in country Victoria. ANy more suggestions gladly taken on....

[Shedscientist]

Nice to have you here Shedscientist! There are a few of us here in SA with sheds. The theme of therapy and sheds is great. I know it does me a world of good being able to get out to the shed and do stuff. It's a bit of an enclave or escape from life. You can refresh there and be set to get back into it.

I don't mind if celebrities get in the book but sheds should be the focus. A celeb with a ton of money thrown at having all the shiny gear that they don't put to much use would be pretty boring but one with something to contribute well why not.

You should check out Drews Shed. He has a very nice setup for sharpening his many planes. A sheet of plate glass with different grades of emery paper glued on. Simple idea but very effective. We all deal with space problems machinery problems etc and I am sure there are a ton of really clever solutions to all these difficulties that people would love to see.

Blokes and Blokesses *G*

Who takes your photographs? If you need help on that front let me know.

Stevo
Stevo\You should email about Drew's shed. (I'm assuming it's in Adelaide). There's a bit of self interest here becuase I'm hopeless at sharpening - the last lesson I had was my sadisitic woodwork teacher in first year high school and that's nearly 40 years ago now. I've tried off and on since but without joy. I take my own photos - not very well but with a lot of patience. I'm just getting a Nikon D70s digital slr but the one I'm trying out keeps getting annoying hotspots on the highlights. I'm most of the way through the 200+ page manual but can't sort it out. I amy have to go and ask some real photographers...
Mark

[bitingmidge]

One observation I would make is that there is a definite 'class' of woodworker who comes from a white collar background and who takes up the hobby by filling their sheds with expensive tools, machinery and timber.... snip..... We need a name for them.

Why don't we call them "SailingAmericans"??

P

:D :D :D

[Shedscientist]

I'm not sure if that is a general trend, but it seems to me there's a real basic need to produce something substantial and be creative in our lives. And working in front of a computer doesn't fill that need usually, so more people seem to be finding hobbies that give us that outlet.

That's a good point - I think the operative word here is 'tangible'. Something you can hold and say I did that, which is just not the case when it comes to the end of a long week of massaging 5.5Gigabytes of data into "information". Far better to go to Bunnings, take home some pinus and turn it into a matchstick or two.
My theory is that we've lost the plot as regards human hands skills, which is why we've got a shortage of skilled trades about the place which is about to get a whole lot worse. I wrote a lot about this in a book called Rare Trades, which fell on it's bum soon after publication because - get this - the binding fell apart. You can still buy it but it's now printed in Singapore or somewhere. So much for me arguing with the publishers about wanting it printed in Oz....

[Wood Borer]

One observation I would make is that there is a definite 'class' of woodworker who comes from a white collar background and who takes up the hobby by filling their sheds with expensive tools, machinery and timber. Looking at some of the merchandise at the show, there's definitely a market there for the cashed up 30-40 something. I bet someone could do a thesis on it. We need a name for them.

I understand there are many "almost retired" white collar workers taking classes in woodwork. They have suddenly realised they have spent their whole life honing skills only suitable for their boss, promotions and the office. As these skills cannot be employed to entertain them in their retirement, they are obtaining skills that will interest and entertain them in retirement.

Money is not a problem for many of these people so they purchase the expensive tools hoping that translates into the best tools.

I congratulate these people for eventually waking up to themselves and I feel sorry for those who push up daisies without having experienced something like woodwork.

[bitingmidge]

My theory is that we've lost the plot as regards human hands skills, which is why we've got a shortage of skilled trades about the place which is about to get a whole lot worse. ...(snip).....which fell on it's bum soon after publication because - get this - the binding fell apart.
Nice theory, but it seems to have dismissed the real reason there is a shortage of human hand skills: that there is a no shortage of machines that do it better. Why spend days making a pattern of an object when a CNC machine can do it in minutes?

Machines are soooo much more reliable too, which is part of the reason why "they" have created that ubiquitous marketing excuse for "rough" or "not quite the way it would have been built in the old days":- HAND CRAFTED.

Have you considered the the binding may have fallen apart because of the antiquated methods used in Oz? (Too much human intervention?)

I don't buy the blokey "need to build as an offset to the heavy use my mind gets" theory. In less modern times these sorts of activities were called PASS TIMES, but we are now so consumed with the rapidity with which time passes we have invented new reasons for doing the same things.

Sailors once practised scrimshaw on whales teeth or built model boats to while away the hours.... now they watch DVD's.

No more do tiny children need to knot finely crafted rugs... a machine can do it better (why don't we cry about that lost skill, or practise using that "romantic" equipment from a bygone era?) Actually someone probably does!

I actually suspect that contrary to what has been said above, shed based hobbies are on the decline, it's just the modern economic climate which has produced a high profile consumerism attached to these activities. It has never been more affordable to own a number of tools, machinery or even a shed.

I am amazed at the number of chaps I know (surely they don't deserve the "bloke" moniker) who actually don't own a tool of any kind. NONE.

They are the new-age neanderthals, not those of us with healthy active leasure pursuits.

I loved the books, but I think that there is a big gap for reporting of the genuine modern hobbyist. The hobby shed is the truly emerging style, fitted out for a purpose, not a workplace or pseudo-junk shop.

No longer the left over bit of space or the junk museum, these spaces are as much the end as the means to it.

Check out Numbat's basement, Sturdee's operating theatre, Wayne Davey's dust-free toolroom, or Major Panic's furniture showroom for starters. These are examples of the evolution.


I'd better stop now, or I will have written a book!! :D :D :D
Cheers,

P (Who likes to think that having a workshop fitout hobby is normal :D )

[echnidna]

I'm not sure if that is a general trend, but it seems to me there's a real basic need to produce something substantial and be creative in our lives.

..............My theory is that we've lost the plot as regards human hands skills, ................... a book called Rare Trades, which fell on it's bum soon after publication because - get this - the binding fell apart. You can still buy it but it's now printed in Singapore or somewhere. So much for me arguing with the publishers about wanting it printed in Oz....

Theres no need to confine yourself to woodwork handskills.
Bind the books yourself, its not a difficult job.
They could be marketed as handmade books thus further proving the worth of a shed.

[bitingmidge]

I forgot to say..... I don't play with wood and other arty crafty stuff as a release from my job, or from the rigours (!!!!???) of IT. If that was the case, I wouldn't be logging on here.

I'm just no good at sport.

P
:D :D :D

[adrian]

I've decided to do another one called (wait for it) Blokes and Sheds 2 or More Damn Sheds or The Deep Shed or some such title.
In my travels some of the best sheds I have seen were the woodworking variety.

"A SHED TOO FAR" The battle for the last great shed.

[zenwood]

...
I actually suspect that contrary to what has been said above, shed based hobbies are on the decline, it's just the modern economic climate which has produced a high profile consumerism attached to these activities. It has never been more affordable to own a number of tools, machinery or even a shed.
...
I am amazed at the number of chaps I know (surely they don't deserve the "bloke" moniker) who actually don't own a tool of any kind. NONE.
...
Check out Numbat's basement, Sturdee's operating theatre, Wayne Davey's dust-free toolroom, or Major Panic's furniture showroom for starters. These are examples of the evolution.
Some excellent thoughts there by bitingmidge. I'd be interested in the theme of shed evolution (or extinction in some varieties) in a follow-on book by shedscientist. The previous book did seem to concentrate on the sheds of previous generations.

On the decline in trades, again bitingmidge makes some good points. Machines have eliminated a vast amount of repetitive, menial, or agonising labor, and for that I'm thankful. The trades have responded either by dying out, or by becoming rare, high-end niches, suitable for application to museum pieces or collectors' items. This is all healthy and part of the rich fabric of technological and cultural evolution.

Shedscientist: that one about the rare trades book falling apart: lol

[Shedscientist]

Originally by zenwood: "On the decline in trades, again bitingmidge makes some good points. Machines have eliminated a vast amount of repetitive, menial, or agonising labor, and for that I'm thankful. The trades have responded either by dying out, or by becoming rare, high-end niches, suitable for application to museum pieces or collectors' items. This is all healthy and part of the rich fabric of technological and cultural evolution."

Both bitingmidge and zenwood make some excellent points, very little of which I would have an argument with. There's no denying that most people's jobs until the 20th century were badly paid and generally life-shortening and the life in the good old days was by and large brutal, short and unhappy. Or that nowadays tools are spectacularly cheap relatively speaking (mainly because a lot of the nasty brutal and short aspects of making them has been transferred to China).
There are some old trades that definitely aren't worth doing anymore. Diderot's Encyclopedia Of Trades first published in 1751 lists a few ie pinmaking - some poor bugger had to sharpen the tip of a piece of wire then hand it to the headflattenerwho would put it in a tiny vice and whack it till it had an nice round top. Try doing that 6 days a week for 30 years and see if you have any braincells left. Machines and technology have most definitely improved our lives.
I supppose what I am talking about is that amazing link between the brain, hands, tools and materials ie why do you bother doing the sorts of things that this forum talks about. I do believe there is some essential thing here about humans as makers that we are missing out on. Nearly everything that the woodworkers in this forum can be brought more cheaply - so why do we bother?
Mark

[silentC]

Nearly everything that the woodworkers in this forum can be brought more cheaply - so why do we bother?
A question I ask myself often :(

[echnidna]

coz its fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
leaves you with a sense of achievement

[silentC]

Remind me of the fun bit again?

[bitingmidge]

Nearly everything that the woodworkers in this forum can be brought more cheaply - so why do we bother?

Things may be able to be bought for less cost, but when it comes to cheap, NOTHING compares with my work!

P
:D :D :D

[echnidna]

Things may be able to be bought for less cost, but when it comes to cheap, NOTHING compares with my work!

P
:D :D :D

Dunno bout that Midge, I'm a cheapskate too ! :D :D

Btw Thanks for the help bout interesting places in Queensland :) :)

[ryanarcher]

I understand there are many "almost retired" white collar workers taking classes in woodwork. They have suddenly realised they have spent their whole life honing skills only suitable for their boss, promotions and the office. As these skills cannot be employed to entertain them in their retirement, they are obtaining skills that will interest and entertain them in retirement.

Money is not a problem for many of these people so they purchase the expensive tools hoping that translates into the best tools.

I congratulate these people for eventually waking up to themselves and I feel sorry for those who push up daisies without having experienced something like woodwork.

Good words from a good hearted man.

My dad recently retired and bought a US$4000 mountain bike. He's 55 and will never win any races on his feather lite bicycle. A lot of people would think that the purchase was ridiculous, but i figure that if it makes him happy "then god bless ya". life's to short to worry about anything less.

[zenwood]

I supppose what I am talking about is that amazing link between the brain, hands, tools and materials ie why do you bother doing the sorts of things that this forum talks about. I do believe there is some essential thing here about humans as makers that we are missing out on. Nearly everything that the woodworkers in this forum can be brought more cheaply - so why do we bother? It's hard to elaborate on echnidna's responses (1) it's fun, and (2) gives a sense of achievement. Maybe we can ask: why is it fun and why do we pursue a sense of achievement? There's a practical sense, pointed out by bitingmidge, in which home-made woodwork is generally far higher quality than you can buy at most shops. But for me, I don't think I got into woodwork because I wanted high-quality furniture. Rather, it's the activity itself that gives the satisfaction. I think shedscientist is onto something when he talks about the link between "brain, hands, tools and materials". I don't know what an explanation of that link would look like. In a very general sense, homo sapiens is the product of millions of years of co-evolution of brain, hands, and tools that has led to reproductive success. Woodworking is a part of that whole complex. But that still doesn't answer the question, why invest thousands of hours and dollars in a passtime that is inefficient (furniture can be produced far more efficiently in huge factories). There's the aspect of a shed being a domain of control. The busy family household is a place of relative chaos, lack of control, noise, competing attentions (at least, mine feels that way much of the time). The shed is a place of serenity, control, quietness, and focussed activity (at least, that's what I aim for). A confession: sometimes I just go into the shed and listen to music.

Not sure any of this answers shedscientist's question. I guess any answer would also have to explain why people play sport, gamble, go to pubs, dance, do art, write poetry, sing songs, do retail therapy, participate in on-line forums, or any other activity that doesn't satisfy a simple cost-benefit analysis.

[Caliban]

It's probably only my fragile ego again, but I make things in my shed (or make the shed itself) because it makes me feel good. Sooner or later someone asks who made it and that's my reward, (until they say it's crap).
In another lifetime I used to catch fish for the same reason, there is an element of skill and an element of luck and when it all comes together I feel clever. I used to think it was in response to some primeval urge, but in retrospect I think I was just attention seeking, although I liked the communing with nature bit. (read "freezing my ar3e off on a cold morning :D )
Perhaps these things explain why I enjoy trying to do woodwork and all those darkside things. When SWMBO gives praise it's icing on the cake. :rolleyes:
Maybe it's the getting out of washing up as well. Who knows?
I know she is much happier with me in the shed rather than out at sea in my boat, though I miss it.
Interesting thread isn't this?

[Driver]

I don't buy the blokey "need to build as an offset to the heavy use my mind gets" theory. In less modern times these sorts of activities were called PASS TIMES, but we are now so consumed with the rapidity with which time passes we have invented new reasons for doing the same things.)

Couldn't agree more. Why do we need to provide a justification for doing something enjoyable? Furthermore, why should there be an implicit assumption that only people who have sedentary jobs indulge in craftsman type hobbies? That's not at all true. Plenty of blokes with non-sedentary jobs are weekend woodworkers.



I am amazed at the number of chaps I know (surely they don't deserve the "bloke" moniker) who actually don't own a tool of any kind. NONE.

Right - they're definitely not "blokes" but they may well be "chaps". I have a couple of close rellies who wouldn't know which end of the hammer to hold.


but I think that there is a big gap for reporting of the genuine modern hobbyist. The hobby shed is the truly emerging style, fitted out for a purpose, not a workplace or pseudo-junk shop.

No longer the left over bit of space or the junk museum, these spaces are as much the end as the means to it. .

Another good point. I get as much enjoyment from the occasional re-organising of my tools as I do out of making something with them. Then, of course, there's also the "stand and look" aspect of the pastime. :D

[bitingmidge]

Then, of course, there's also the "stand and look" aspect of the pastime. :D

Ahhh yes!

The old "stand and look" usually followed by "log on for a sec" then go back and look some more.

Like the art of "leaning", I think "stand and look" is a very much endangered craft in this day and age.

I think we need to start a new age movement where we can "workshop" leaning, and standing and looking, to keep these skills alive and what's more, at the FOREFRONT of every day activities.

P (Sometime I sits and thinks, but mostly I just sits.)
:D :D

[Studley 2436]

Stevo\You should email about Drew's shed. (I'm assuming it's in Adelaide). There's a bit of self interest here becuase I'm hopeless at sharpening - the last lesson I had was my sadisitic woodwork teacher in first year high school and that's nearly 40 years ago now. I've tried off and on since but without joy. I take my own photos - not very well but with a lot of patience. I'm just getting a Nikon D70s digital slr but the one I'm trying out keeps getting annoying hotspots on the highlights. I'm most of the way through the 200+ page manual but can't sort it out. I amy have to go and ask some real photographers...
Mark
Check out drews shed at http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=18323&page=1&pp=15

Drew has posted a picture of his sharpening section but I am not sure where it is now. You can see one picture that I took of it but my photo has too many cds in view and not enough sand paper.

Shed if you have troubles with your highlights that is because digital is like that. Try under exposing by 1/3 stop or even 2/3 stop. Best of all do some chimping on the histogram so you can see what the camera has been able to record and if some of the image has been outside of the cameras range.

Think that Drew is having us around this week too.

Stevo

[MajorPanic]

Another good point. I get as much enjoyment from the occasional re-organising of my tools as I do out of making something with them. Then, of course, there's also the "stand and look" aspect of the pastime. :D
A lot of people I know in the woodworking game are "professionals" in the TRUE sense of the word. They earn their living primarily from woodwork. Their sheds reflect this.

What Driver said is along the lines of what I enjoy as well.
To me my shed is not just a space to do a hobby it is also a hobby unto itself.
Creating the ultimate shed for one's working style is a never ending process. You are always learning from others. This BB is an inspiring place & affects the way you & your shed work together.

[journeyman Mick]

Why don't we call them "SailingAmericans"??

P

:D :D :D


Midge! I just sprayed gin and tonic all over my laptop! :D :D :D (I'm on holidays so can be excused for drinking g&t)

Mick

[Driver]

Midge! I just sprayed gin and tonic all over my laptop! :D :D :D (I'm on holidays so can be excused for drinking g&t)

Mick


Mick

Be careful, mate! That's the sort of grog that chaps drink! :D

[echnidna]

Mick, its not pink gin is it?????

[Driver]

Mick, its not pink gin is it?????

Now that's the sort of grog that sailors drink. Sailors like (shock, horror) Seaman Staines! :eek:

[Caliban]

Mick

Be careful, mate! That's the sort of grog that chaps drink! :D
And they never get their lips wet either. :(

[journeyman Mick]

Driver,
I'm on holidays so I'm temporarily a "chap". The doorhandle fell off the bathroom door this morning and I had to go to reception and ask them to fix it as I didn't even have a leatherman or swiss army knife as a tool. The real reason I'm drinking G & Ts though is that due to my food allergies discovered last year I can no longer drink (much) beer, wine, port, scotch etc etc. Gin or vodka only I'm afraid :(
Toodle loo chaps! ;)

Mick

[MajorPanic]

Driver,
I'm on holidays so I'm temporarily a "chap". The doorhandle fell off the bathroom door this morning and I had to go to reception and ask them to fix it as I didn't even have a leatherman or swiss army knife as a tool. The real reason I'm drinking G & Ts though is that due to my food allergies discovered last year I can no longer drink (much) beer, wine, port, scotch etc etc. Gin or vodka only I'm afraid :(
Toodle loo chaps! ;)

Mick
How very pucker of you Mick!!

We hope you lift the glass with an extended pinkie ;) :D :D

[RETIRED]

Pip Pip?

[zenwood]

I make things ... because it makes me feel good.
Aah, but why does it make you feel good when it's so inefficient?


Sooner or later someone asks who made it and that's my reward... When SWMBO gives praise it's icing on the cake.
I think this is a huge point. People crave the respect and praise of other people. (Pinker makes much of this in his book, "How the Mind Works"). It's all tied in with being social animals: communities working together achieve much more than the sum of individual efforts. It also explains the rise of community sheds, on-line forums, etc.

[echnidna]

Back on the subject of sheds.
We should all feel sorry for .
His sheds so short his woodlathe just about touches each end wall. :D :D :D

[Driver]

Ahhh yes!

The old "stand and look" usually followed by "log on for a sec" then go back and look some more.

Like the art of "leaning", I think "stand and look" is a very much endangered craft in this day and age.

I think we need to start a new age movement where we can "workshop" leaning, and standing and looking, to keep these skills alive and what's more, at the FOREFRONT of every day activities.

P (Sometime I sits and thinks, but mostly I just sits.)
:D :D


I've been sitting and thinking about this and I reckon there's a book in it. After we have started Midge's new age movement and workshopped the leaning and the standing and looking (presumably the workshopping would be done in real sheds? :D ) then we could write it all up (possibly in blogs?) - print it off and publish it as a companion set with Shedscientist's new book ;)

If Mick would care to draw up some recipes for chaps' drinkie-poos to go in as an addendum we could have a publishing sensation!

Col (it's a slow Saturday evening, fellas!)

[silentC]

The 'stand and look' phenomenom is the reason it takes me so long to finish anything. I stand and look for many reasons. Here are some of them:

1. How the **** am I going to fix that?
2. That looks ugly, I wonder if a different lid/handle/moulding/setting would make it look better?
3. You know, that doesn't look half bad...
4. I wonder what we're having for dinner tonight...

But mostly I stand and stare because I'm a procrastinator. Sometimes I sit on the end of my bench and think about all the things I'm going to do today and half an hour can pass before I actually start anything.

The other reason is that I can't decide if I like what I'm looking at or not. I look at it from every angle, at different times of the day. I set it up so I see it on my way to work or on my way home, hoping I can catch it off guard looking ugly. I get the missus to look at it, but she's no help: "It looks OK to me".
"Yeah, but what about that angle there?"
"Don't be so ridiculous. It looks good. I'm going to hit some balls."

[Clinton]

Who's balls?

[Driver]

The 'stand and look' phenomenom is the reason it takes me so long to finish anything. I stand and look for many reasons.

Y'know, you don't actually need any justification for standing and looking. It's in the Code of Practice (Chapter: Blokes; section: Things to Do; sub-section: Sheds)

Quote:

A bloke when standing and looking - in his shed - is engaged in a legitimate blokely activity (note: "blokely" not "blokey". The latter expression is a corruption that has been promulgated by female persons).

Blokes engaged in such legitimate blokely activity may not, under this Code of Practice, be criticised for standing around doing nothing. Standing and looking is by definition an activity and therefore constitutes something, not nothing.

Standing and looking can be alternated with leaning and both may be complemented by drinking (especially beer and wine: both bloke's drinks. In exceptional circumstances, special dispensation can be granted for the consumption of drinks like gin and tonic - normally classified as a chap's drink).

[zenwood]

Standing and looking [...] may be complemented by drinking (especially beer and wine: both bloke's drinks. In exceptional circumstances, [...] gin and tonic... I think I've contravened the code. I've been known to drink tea, coffee or cordial while standing and looking in the shed. Does the code need amending?

Chardonnay, I take it, is universally accepted as a contravention? What about latte?

[Driver]

I think I've contravened the code. I've been known to drink tea, coffee or cordial while standing and looking in the shed. Does the code need amending?

Chardonnay, I take it, is universally accepted as a contravention? What about latte?


No - the Code needs no amending. Read the relevant section again. It says:-

"....may be complemented by drinking (especially beer and wine ..."

It doesn't say exclusively beer and wine. Tea and coffee are therefore well within the guidelines. You'll no doubt be relieved to learn that you haven't contravened the Code. :)

Chardonnay and latte? We-e-e-ll - could be stretching a point (we need a smilie that has that gesture: y'know the one: hand outretched, palm down, pivotting about the axis of the wrist).

Col

[Caliban]

hoping I can catch it off guard
I think Darren is onto something here. I tend to stand and stare at something that is being problemic (not problematic, there's nothing resembling "matic" about my thought processes- they are very manual) I can waste easy half an hour trying to sneak up and catch the problem off guard. Occasionally the problem will allow itself to be unwary and If you happen to be contemplating at just that moment then, bingo, the solution presents itself. Sort of confirming the old saying "fools rush in".

[Shedscientist]

I can waste easy half an hour trying to sneak up and catch the problem off guard. Occasionally the problem will allow itself to be unwary and If you happen to be contemplating at just that moment then, bingo, the solution presents itself.
I think what is being referred to is the sacred shed dreaming state of mind where reality is suspended for long periods of time - the gears in the brain are just freewheeling around in an apparently aimless fashion. But it's not aimless and it's certainly very pleasant. I know exactly what you mean. We could build a serious cult on this sort of thing...

[zenwood]

It happened to me yesterday. I found I had been staring at some shavings on the bench for some minutes. I wondered why I had been staring at those shavings, but could think of no good reason.
Time had been suspended.
Thoughts had been extinguished.
Memory had lapsed.
It was pleasant.

[bitingmidge]

It happens to me every time I look at my half finished DC ducting.

It's not unpleasant, but it will be better when one day I go into that stare, and realise it's all connected.

I just don't know how to make the cosmic transition that will be required.

P
:D :D :D