Thicknesser advice

[dazzler]

Hi

Being a good forumite I did a search on thicknessers and seemed to be full bottle on the views.. Seems that most people were reasonably happy with the low end machines when used to thickness small amounts from timber from sawmills etc. So off to Mitre 10 full of info to buy a low end machine.

So went down and they had the ryobi on display with a ryobi guy demonstrating. He ran some pine (what else?:) through at 2mm and came out good. Little sniping at end but otherwise okay. Did it a few more times and it had good results.

Asked him about taking a minimum pass off at say .5 to 1mm.

No worries, he runs it through and a distinct chatter could be heard as it went along and it ended up very wavy as if it had lots of sniping along its length. Ryobi man thought it okay as it is a lot to ask to take a little off.

So I went away perplexed.

I thought less would result in a smoother finish. Could it have been the machine, the operator or was I asking too much.

I would really like to get a thicknesser to dress some of the excellent timbers in tassie but dont really want to have to keep taking 2mm passes off my black sass and huon.

any advice

cheers

dazzler

[Iain]

I think a 2mm pass is excessive, I have no idea what I take off on a pass but I put a 1/4 turn on the handle and it seems happy.
I have 2.5hp 12 1/2" Geetech and it is quite smooth (apart from the nicks in the blade which I must fix).
Have not seen a Ryobi in action but it looks much the same as many other machines, having said that mine has four support posts, the cheaper ones have two, the later machines have anti snipe which is a cutter head lock mechanism, mine doesn't but I put up with a little snipe.
Delta seem a reasonable machine but have a good look around and see what else is out there.

[gatiep]

I use a CT-317 12.5" thicknesser from CT as a second thicknesser to a bigger one. The height changes at 2 mm per turn of the handle. I normally use 1/4 or 1/8 turn of the handle. 2 mm cut on 50 mm wide pine is not excessive but would be on 300 mm wide Jarrah. So I do .25 mm and even less cuts, which come out perfect without snipe as well. I have thicknessed 19 mm jarrah down to a thickness of 0.8 mm over a length of 1.2 meters and sheoak to 0.6 mm thick, same with and length. I use a mdf board on the thicknesser table to ensure the blade doesn't cut into the steel table should I stuff up on those thin settings.

I think that maybe the machine you saw demo'ed was faulty........could be many things including blade settings, rollers, bearings, etc etc etc. It pays to pay a few bucks more for a machine with good back up service. The CT-317 normally sells for $349 at Ctec in Perth. I got mine on a special for $295. I also bought the 18% Tungsten blades as replacement blades for when one set goes in for sharpening

[E. maculata]

I've done a little bit of work with industrial planers & moulders so I set my little generic thicknesser up in a very similar fashion and so far so good.
The first thing that people forget when it comes to material machining is that it's about the material being machined this should be your first consideration, you adjust or set the machine to suit the job at hand. there are many very good fitters out there that can tune a machine to within a inch of its' life, but it still may not perform to expectations on some timbers, this is probably the case in point here, Hardwoods are by very definition harder, have longer dense cell structure with more extractives and carbons or even silica compounds in the structure so the angle of attack should be modified (a la chainsaw cutters or even hand plane style), so while a shallow cut on hardwoods may give a better finish, on softer materials it may be too slow a feed rate and the cutters may sort of tear at the surface of the timber rather than bite & slice into as would be expected.
There are a few other factors at play here but these are the easiest to adjust, BTW on my little machine 1 full turn of the handle = 2mm, pretty handy to know actually.

[Stuart]

Tell him he's a d*** head. You are completely right about your expectation of what should have happened.

What it most sounds like is one of the 2 blades is higher than the other. Because of the constant feed through, it will produce a wavy result. It doesn't necessarily mean there is anything wrong with the machine, but more likely it has not been set up correctly.

The sniping at the ends is easily corrected if you are prepared to make a little mod.

Here, I have taken a piece of 5mm structural grade aluminium. It has been sized to fit right through the thicknesser. I have simply riveted it to one end of the thicknesser. I didn't do the other end simply because I didn't want any possibility of warping of the plate caused by differential expansion of the thicknesser base and the Al plate with temperature changes. At some stage I will address this by cutting a couple of slots in the far end and rivet through the slot. This will allow thermal expansion and still provide a positive hold-down of the plate.

Now, any work that passes through - no snipe :) (And that includes thick & thin pieces, short & long)

[echnidna]

I got a GMC and one of the first things was trying it out on fine work.
It gives an excellent finish with a .5mm cut.
Won't work properly on finer cuts than that but by setting the work up properly I can thickness a piece of pine 35mm wide down to a thickness of 1.1mm -- and no visible waves.

[SWR]

Like Echidna, I too have had good success with the GMC TP-2000.

So far I have put a heap of Jarrah and Karri (Kauri?) and it has handled it no problem.

Now I don't try and do 3mm in one pass, but give it a few passes to remove the correct ammount.

I like what Stueysnail has done with the rigid 5mm aluminium plate, and when the two year warranty is up, I may do a similar thing.

But with the 2 year no questions warranty as long as it is unmodified still with 18 months to go, I will put up with the occasional snipe on the end of the odd board. At the wood show last weekend they were only about $295 - so if your keen and can get there - head down to Canberra.

And my motto on thicknessers is - it is better to gave a GMC than to have none at all...

Cheers'n'beers...

Scott in peakhurst.

[JackG]

I think the portable thiknessers should not be overlooked, I have small cast iron thicknesser, it can certaily take big passes and the results are predictable and repetitive only problem is that you cant take very small passes as the serated infeed roller marks the timber. The portable type generally have a rubber infeed roller and allow to take smaller passes.

Just go ahead and buy a thickesser, it just opens a brand new world of possibilities in the design and construction of your work.

[craigb]

I have a DeWalt. The previous model to the current one. I never try and take more than 1mm in a pass.

One feature I really like about it, and I don't know if the generics have this, is that it has a pre set depth stop turret where you can dial up the most common thicknesses. I.E 6mm, 12mm and 19mm.

Great for ensuring thatall your boards will be the same thickness, even if you have to thickness a board "out of batch" so to speak.

[Gumby]

I'd have to agree that the blades are probably out of alignment somehow. I have the ML 392 combo jointer/thicknesser and only take off a small amount at a time (about 1/4 turn) and it leaves a very good finish. If you are eventually getting a jointer, consider a combo like that.

[amgsir]

The sniping at the ends is easily corrected if you are prepared to make a little mod.

Here, I have taken a piece of 5mm structural grade aluminium. It has been sized to fit right through the thicknesser. I have simply riveted it to one end of the thicknesser. I didn't do the other end simply because I didn't want any possibility of warping of the plate caused by differential expansion of the thicknesser base and the Al plate with temperature changes. At some stage I will address this by cutting a couple of slots in the far end and rivet through the slot. This will allow thermal expansion and still provide a positive hold-down of the plate.

Now, any work that passes through - no snipe :) (And that includes thick & thin pieces, short & long)

Stueysnail thanks for this, I have a Ryobi thicknesser and the sniping has been its only disappointment, but now no longer. I intend to get this added asap!!!!!!!!!! :)

[Chesand]

I have done something similar to Stueysnail with a length of smooth laminated chipboard (actually an old shelf from a shop refit)
It sits across both infeed and outfeed tables and is held in place by a cleat at each end. I recently put short pieces through with any snipe.
I polished it with Ubeaut EEE so that the timber slides easily.

[Bruce Micheal]

Dazzler
I have one of the "generic" thicknessers (very bright orange, I also call it my "neighbour annoyer") I bought from Timbecon some three years ago. I should add that the Ryobi, GMC, CT317 and my MB 1931 are "generic". I can get down to .5mm cut with no problems. I never try and take 3mm in one cut unless the timber is very narrow. I have put so many meters of iron bark, briglow, myall etc through the machine and still have not had any problems such as the one you have mentioned. I have also put considerable hoop, bunya and exotic pine through the machine as well with no problems.
Not being any sort of expert, I would say that the demo machine was not fully set up or tuned properly, ie. in feed and out feed rollers not set at the same height as the table (maybe a bit lower).
If you buy the Ryobi or GMC, I don't see you having too many problems.

regards

[Robert WA]

I am not sure that snipe is entirely a result of uneven infeed and outfeed.

Two rollers drive the work through the machine. At the commencement of a run and at the end of a run, the work is under the blade and one roller only. I don't know why, but I believe that the blades take a deeper cut when only one roller is in contact with the work.

If I am concerned about snipe, the length of the workpiece is important, I feed sacrificial pieces, the same thickness as the work piece, into the machine immediately before and after the work piece. The effect is that there is something under both rollers all the time the work piece is in the machine.

[DPB]

The sniping at the ends is easily corrected if you are prepared to make a little mod.Stuey, excuse my ignorance. I can't see how your mod solves the sniping problem.

It's my understanding that sniping is caused as follows. The thicknesser has two sets of forwarding rollers, one ahead and one behind the cutters. These three are set in a 'carraige' arangement.

When a piece of timber is fed into the the thicknesser, the first feed roller climbs onto the timber feeding it through. The cutters come next and cause a small snip until the second feed roller climbs onto the timber lifting the carriage assembly into a parallel mode. Upon exiting the thicknesser, the reverse happens. The rear feed roller drops off the back of the timber, causing the cutters to drop fractionally which results in the rear snipe.

The only solution I'm aware is to place the timber on a carrier, or sled with sacrificial side rails that "fool" the thicknesser. These timber side rails are the same depth as the timber and run into the thicknesser ahead and behind of the timber being thicknessed. The sniping occurs on the rails, not the timber.

So how does a new bottom plate resolve the thicknessing problem?

[Groggy]

Stuey, excuse my ignorance. I can't see how your mod solves the sniping problem.

It's my understanding that sniping is caused as follows. The thicknesser has two sets of forwarding rollers, one ahead and one behind the cutters. These three are set in a 'carraige' arangement.
....snip....

So how does a new bottom plate resolve the thicknessing problem?I agree with DPB. Solutions are varied but are either as described by DPB, or involve sacrificial pieces in front and behind the workpiece, or allowing for waste at either end. If there was a noticeable improvement by placing a plate over the tables, it would be because the tables were not co-planar to start with and the workpiece "rocked" as it passed over them.

I often wonder if a four roller thicknesser would solve the problem entirely.

[himzol]

Dazzler,

I own a Ryobi. I baught a rebuit unit in Melbourne. The first thing I did when I baught it is strip it down and make sure everything was set up correctly, i.e. blade depth and also chain and belt tension was set correctly.

I have had no problems with softwoods nor hardwoods. Just remember it is a low end machine and treat it accordingly and it will do the job for you. Last use for mine was dressing some redgum sleepers (8' by 2") which were part of a retaining wall, these are slowly taking shape as a coffee table.

The only draw back I've had with this unit was some "slippage" in the feed rollers due to dust, ataching a DC has solved this problem.

Hope this helps in some way,

Himzo.

[Stuart]

Stueysnail thanks for this, I have a Ryobi thicknesser and the sniping has been its only disappointment, but now no longer. I intend to get this added asap!!!!!!!!!! :)
Glad to be of assistance :D

[Stuart]

Stuey, excuse my ignorance. I can't see how your mod solves the sniping problem.

It's my understanding that sniping is caused as follows. The thicknesser has two sets of forwarding rollers, one ahead and one behind the cutters. These three are set in a 'carraige' arangement.

When a piece of timber is fed into the the thicknesser, the first feed roller climbs onto the timber feeding it through. The cutters come next and cause a small snip until the second feed roller climbs onto the timber lifting the carriage assembly into a parallel mode. Upon exiting the thicknesser, the reverse happens. The rear feed roller drops off the back of the timber, causing the cutters to drop fractionally which results in the rear snipe.

The only solution I'm aware is to place the timber on a carrier, or sled with sacrificial side rails that "fool" the thicknesser. These timber side rails are the same depth as the timber and run into the thicknesser ahead and behind of the timber being thicknessed. The sniping occurs on the rails, not the timber.

So how does a new bottom plate resolve the thicknessing problem? Fair call, although there are a couple of issues here. Firstly, I believe the infeed and outfeed (powered) rollers have their own independent suspension system, and whether they are lifted or not does not affect the cutting head, which is solidly fixed in place. So as I understand it, the work passes into the infeed roller, which lifts (compressing its springs) while it drives the work into the cutter head. As the work leaves the outfeed rides up onto the work, and drives it out. So in theory (and I will reiterate - as I understand it!) there is no cause of snipe here.

The problem that I found, and addressed with the mod is not the infeed & outfeed rollers, but the cheap, crappy infeed and outfeed tables underneath the work. They don't carry the load properly, so it enters at an angle into the infeed roller, which drives it into the cutter head. But, the work is not sitting flush on the table at this stage. Only once it connects with the outfeed roller is it finally forced down properly onto the table with 2 decent points of contact, on either side of the cutter. By this stage, snipe has already occured. The reverse happens once the work passes through, and the end is no longer in contact with the infeed roller. It is then allowed to drop, forcing more of the end into the cutter head, sniping that end.

How the mod works, is there is no opportunity for the work to angle up into the cutter head, as the table is long enough to fully support the work. Although I fixed it to the infeed table, I am relying on the strength of the 5mm structural aluminium to support the work without flexing. If the workpiece was exceptionally long and/or heavy, I would supplement this with a sturdy piece of something like MDF, and use accurately adjusted roller or multistands for both infeed and outfeed.

If the thicknesser was designed properly (ignoring cost), it really needs 2 or more infeed and outfeed rollers to get the workpiece held down flat to the table before it impacts the cutter.

BTW, this really is what Groggy said, just more verbose. I think he nailed it.

[Samson13]

[QUOTE=gatiep]II have thicknessed 19 mm jarrah down to a thickness of 0.8 mm over a length of 1.2 meters and sheoak to 0.6 mm thick, same with and length. I use a mdf board on the thicknesser table to ensure the blade doesn't cut into the steel table should I stuff up on those thin settings.

Joe
The instructions with my generic thicknesser say that you shouldn't plane any less than 6mm thick. What do you do to plane down to as thin as 0.6 o0.8 mm thick? I need to plane some stuff down to 3mm, do I just place it on top of a backing board and pass it thru? Do you need cleats or some other method, such as double sided tape to secure the workpiece to the backing board? Thanks.

Samson13

[Stubchain]

Hi Daz,

I bought a Ryobi thicknesser a few weeks back. I have run heaps of Sassafras through it. Most of the cuts were 1mm or under. I found the smaller the cut the better the finish. I get a little bit of snipe at each end, about 50mm in and about 0.2mm deep, nothing to really worry about.

[Jack E]

I have thicknessed 19 mm jarrah down to a thickness of 0.8 mm over a length of 1.2 meters and sheoak to 0.6 mm thick, same with and length.

I don't understand why you would thickness and waste over 18mm of material :confused: :confused: :confused:

Jack.

[Gumby]

I don't understand why you would thickness and waste over 18mm of material :confused: :confused: :confused:

Jack.

I was going to make the same comment but I thought,

"NAH!, Now way he'd shave 19mm jarrah down to less than 1mm !!!"

He must have meant he ran it through a bandsaw or the TS first - surely ?

[outback]

I thought he meant he was taking 0.8 mm off his 19mm thick piece in a pass. :confused:

[Gumby]

I thought he meant he was taking 0.8 mm off his 19mm thick piece in a pass. :confused:

Well, if he did, that's not how it reads. I'm sure these few posts will enlist a response shortly.

[Jack E]

"NAH!, Now way he'd shave 19mm jarrah down to less than 1mm !!!"

Is this a typo?

Jack.

[la Huerta]

just reading through these threads and i can't belive the success people have had with ryobi and gmc products ,i have had several of these (3 sanders 2 planers and a dropsaw) and they have all had problems, the last one i bought was a belt sander and i used it for 5 min and it caught fire...i have now replaced it with a makita , the unstopable powertool, i also have a makita 7 1/4 circular saw and a router, both 10 years old and have done an amazing amount of work, the saw has cut hardwood like railway sleapers for firewood for many years and still works perfect, from this experience i would never buy a 'el cheapo' machines again if my life depnded on it, my advice is to wait till you can afford a higher quality machine (whatever brand) and you should have it for the next 10 years or more ...but thats me...(hope i didn't affend anyone in this thread if so , let me know ...)

[Iain]

a belt sander and i used it for 5 min and it caught fire
I had an Ozito belt sander that wandered constantly, the belt eventually wandered through the case.............

[arose62]

I wondered about the horrific waste also - maybe he means

"I thicknessed 19mm WIDE strips of Jarrah down to a thickness of 0.8 mm"

Add me to the list waiting for clarification on this...

Cheers,
Andrew

[Iain]

Mulch for the garden, I also await clarification...

[Gumby]

Is this a typo?

Jack.

It would seem so, yes.

[Jack E]

Do I get to go on the board!!!

Jack.

[Jack E]

I have thicknessed 19 mm jarrah down to a thickness of 0.8 mm over a length of 1.2 meters and sheoak to 0.6 mm thick, same with and length.

Still no answer on why you would do this Gatiep?

(Or on whether I get on the Typo honour board Gumby!!)

Jack.

[Gumby]

Do I get to go on the board!!!

Jack.

Patience my son, you must earn your place. Over zealous souls do not attain the ultimate enlightenment. Think well of the cicada, does he not stay buried and yet make his presence known ? Foolish would he be to reveal his whereabouts, and yet only on the full of the moon can he procreate and attain internal bliss. Therefore, look not to the obvious, but seek that which is hidden.

(and i've got to find the bloody thing first.....weekend project) :D :D

[Iain]

No typo's :D although should internal have read eternal :rolleyes:

[Jack E]

Patience my son, you must earn your place. Over zealous souls do not attain the ultimate enlightenment. Think well of the cicada, does he not stay buried and yet make his presence known ? Foolish would he be to reveal his whereabouts, and yet only on the full of the moon can he procreate and attain internal bliss. Therefore, look not to the obvious, but seek that which is hidden.and i've got to find the bloody thing first.....weekend project)

Well done Gumby, how the hell you typed all that without a typo is beyond me!!

BTW, I don't know much about cicadas or "internal" bliss but I want recognition damn it :D :D :D

Jack.

[outback]

No typo's :D although should internal have read eternal :rolleyes:
I reckon the internal sounds better, specially after the procreating bit. :D

[Gumby]

Guys , guys, guys. It's 'internal'. You should know that there's no such thing as 'eternal' bliss after procreation. :D :D :D (unless...........)

[craigb]

I also await clarification...

I await enlightenment :rolleyes: :D

PS

Nice try "Grasshopper" Gumby :D

[outback]

Guys , guys, guys. It's 'internal'. You should know that there's no such thing as 'eternal' bliss after procreation. :D :D :D (unless...........)
What are the odds of our two posts lasting? ;)

[Gumby]

I await enlightenment :rolleyes: :D


I await Kylie Minogue.........I think you'll win :D

[Samson13]

Gumby

I've gotcha! "Over zealous" should be either one word or, at the very least, have a hyphen between them.

I want my name up in lights in the hall of fame.

[Gumby]

Gumby

I've gotcha! "Over zealous" should be either one word or, at the very least, have a hyphen between them.

I want my name up in lights in the hall of fame.

Not sure if that qualifies - I will put it to the committee for you.

We haven't hijacked this thread though. We're just treading water while we wait for gatiep to respond. ;)

[echnidna]

Guys , guys, guys. It's 'internal'. You should know that there's no such thing as 'eternal' bliss after procreation. :D :D :D (unless...........)

aawww don't leave us hanging like that, finish the quote :eek:

[echnidna]

Guys , guys, guys. It's 'internal'. You should know that there's no such thing as 'eternal' bliss after procreation. :D :D :D (unless...........)

aawww don't leave us hanging like that, finish the quote :eek:

[dazzler]

Well I went and bought (as well as other booty) the Ryobi Thinnesser at the WW show.

Gave it a run and it works great. Good finish and not overly loud so the guy demonstrating in june must have been the head of richards.

Snipe is an issue as predicted. About 50mm in from each end and prob .2mm deep. Just enough to be annoying but liveable.

So am going to work on reducing this as much as possible.

I adjusted the plates with the rollers so that the rollers were a bees higher than the base as described in an earlier post.

Something I noticed was that the in and outfeed rollers rotate elliptically up and down about 1mm which cant be good.

Like the idea of the 5mm aluminium plate and might go down that track.

Given that though I am really happy...see ---> :) ....with my choice.

Thanks everyone.

Dazzler