Headless rivet ?

[morrisman]

Hi

I am making Harolds Knurling tool. He specifies a 6mm x 14mm headless rivet to join two parts together . So what is a headless rivet ? Mike

[TKO]

Just a rivet with out a head.

[KBs PensNmore]

Hi Mike, my way of thinking it would be a bit of bright bar that is burred over to prevent it from coming out, probably some pommy term.:D
Kryn

[morrisman]

Just a rivet with out a head. :logic:

I think I will run a tap through both parts and use a bolt instead

[KBs PensNmore]

Mike, if you run a tap through both parts and fit a bolt, won't the threaded section wear out with the knurlers rotating on them???? Possibly an easier way would be to turn a shoulder on each end of the pin and then peen it over.????
Kryn

[pipeclay]

Have you considered using dowel pins.

[morrisman]

The rivet in question is H6 ...............

[rogerbaker]

Hi Mike
It looks to me to be a dowel pin that doesnt go all of the way through Part number 11.

Roger

[Michael G]

As Harold is coming from a long tradition of UK model engineers where the number of visible rivet heads is important, I suspect that when he calls for a headless rivet he is calling for one where the head is not visible. You and I would probably call them countersunk. A dowel pin would not work in this application as it's task is to hold the two knurler cheek plates together. If a countersunk rivet did not appeal I would suggest a countersunk screw with a tubular spacer between the cheek plates. One cheek would be tapped, the other countersunk.

Michael

[Oldneweng]

As Harold is coming from a long tradition of UK model engineers where the number of visible rivet heads is important, I suspect that when he calls for a headless rivet he is calling for one where the head is not visible. You and I would probably call them countersunk. A dowel pin would not work in this application as it's task is to hold the two knurler cheek plates together. If a countersunk rivet did not appeal I would suggest a countersunk screw with a tubular spacer between the cheek plates. One cheek would be tapped, the other countersunk.

Michael

Looking at this page http://www.homews.co.uk/page120.html item H7 (X 3) are bolts that hold all parts together. Arms X 2, 11 and cheek plates. H6 does not appear to pass thru the cheek plates. I would suggest that any suitable pin could be used as it seems that the cheek plates would retain it. No actual riveting required. However, I do not know how 12 is positioned in relation to 11. Maybe 12 is located on the same plane as the outer arm which appears to be thicker than the other one. If this is the case, then the rivet would only pass thru 2 items, 11 and 12, and it would be able to move more than if supported from both sides. Hence the reason for the cheek plate addition?

My $0.02 worth.

Dean

[morrisman]

Looking at this page http://www.homews.co.uk/page120.html item H7 (X 3) are bolts that hold all parts together. Arms X 2, 11 and cheek plates. H6 does not appear to pass thru the cheek plates. I would suggest that any suitable pin could be used as it seems that the cheek plates would retain it. No actual riveting required. However, I do not know how 12 is positioned in relation to 11. Maybe 12 is located on the same plane as the outer arm which appears to be thicker than the other one. If this is the case, then the rivet would only pass thru 2 items, 11 and 12, and it would be able to move more than if supported from both sides. Hence the reason for the cheek plate addition?

My $0.02 worth.

Dean

Yes , correct Dean

[Oldneweng]

Yes , correct Dean

In that case I would be thinking about adding some support to the unsupported end. Maybe a partial hole in that cheek plate. But then I tend to try to over engineer, just in case. With a good fit the cheek plates should hold everything square. I may think about making one of these some time as I do not have a knurler. One of those things I am hoping to find really cheap one day. Hopefully before I have need for it.:rolleyes:

Dean

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Perhaps he means cutler's rivets?

[malb]

I followed Dean's link to the project and looked at Dwg 1 and 2. Dwg 1 does not shed a lot of light on the question but DWG 2 is a detail of the side cheek and side plate nearest the chuck.

On DWG 2, the side plate is shown as drilled 6mm with a light countersink on the outside, and the mounting arm is shown similar except with the countersink facing the other way.

This leads me to believe the two parts are assembled and a pin is inserted and peened and dressed flush either side, leaving the other cheek seperate, but secured by the countersunk pivot screws and nuts.

Hope this helps.

[morrisman]

OK things are coming together . I see now why the rivet has to be a flush headless fit , it is in order to clear the side/cheek plate. Harold could have used a more common term e.g, 'dowel pin' , instead of 'headless rivet' . Anyway I am going to run a tap through both parts, thread a bolt in, then machine the bolt down level/ flush , that should work . Plus a smear of loctite . Thanks ......... Mike