BobL
16th April 2014, 04:52 PM
I posted these pics and some of this info in several threads but I am repeating it here for completeness.
First I strongly recommend not doing this unless you are competent and comfortable with mains AC and motors.
Having the right testing gear is also handy
If this is not you then this is for info only and if needed for you to discuss with your sparky
I found this Tecnomotori 3-4HP motor on a heap of scrap metal. It had no fan, cover to the connection, was a bit rusty, and the rotor was not turning, but as it looked like a reasonably HD motor and I thought I might be able to at least get the bearings out of it. When I opened it up (I had to belt the rotor a couple of times with a wooden mallet to get it out) the bearings seemed fine and the internal corrosion was surface stuff so just for fun I Meggered (checked the insulation resistance) and checked for shorting, and it was all fine so I though I would see if it would get it to run. I put the rusty rotor on a lathe and sanded the rust off. Blew out the dust and reassembled, still Meggering OK, I added an external old 240V computer fan to it, connected it up and it runs - a bit of vibe but no worse than some other motors I have. The end caps were a bit rusty so I tidied them up and gave them a lick-o-paint
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310446&stc=1
In ∆∆ mode its one of the quieter and coolest of my bigger motors in my collection so it's sort of become a bit of a test motor.
It owes me nothing so if I kill it I haven't lost anything.
This motor has 2 sets of terminals and is what is called a double delta/star (∆∆/Y). Sometimes the double delta is called a “serial delta)
Schematics for the connectors are shown in the following diagram.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310447&stc=1
If power is supplied to terminals 6,4,5 this connects the motor in ∆∆ mode (see ∆∆ in diagram) and it runs at 1490 RPM @ 50Hz and supposedly can deliver 3HP at 415V.
If terminals terminals 6,4,5 are shorted and power supplied to terminals 1,2,3 this creates a Y connection and it runs at 2990 RPM @ 50 Hz and supposed 4HP.
If the impedance (resistance) of any one coil is Z then the resistance between any two terminals in ∆∆ wiring is “4/3 Z" while for Y it is "Z"
I ran it on a 3HP 240V(1P) - 240V(3P) VFD in both ∆∆ and Y modes but as my HP measurer is not finalised I can’t check their power output yet.
The sound/noise/vibe output in Y mode is different - more about that later.
This could be the motor (hardly in the prime of its existence), the VFD or the interplay between the two or the connection mode or interplay between all three.
On some of these ∆∆/Y motors they come with 9 or even 12 wires which enables alternative ∆ wiring.
Just like the 3 wired on common point of a regular Y motor can be disconnected from each other and wired up to separate wires so to can the junctions between the coils at 1,2,3 and 4,5,6.
This is what I was doing in these pics here, it's very difficult to see what's going
Here the junctions (4/5/6) in the schematic (labelled 1/2/3 in the photo) are bing teased out and separated and extra wires added
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310453&stc=1
Everything is sleeved with fibreglass sleeves and sewed back in place
The red, white and black wires are the new wires that go back to the terminal box.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310452&stc=1
And then either expoxied or siliconed in place
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310451&stc=1
Connections 4,5,6 and 7,8.9 can be the connected up in a variety of ways to create several types of “parallel” ∆ formations like this arrangement which I'm calling ∆1.
It will have a much lower coil to coil resistance (Z/3) so should draw a much greater current and “in theory" produce more power.
In practice there is a fair bit of heat generated and
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310449&stc=1
∆-1 runs at 2990 RPM at 50Hz, so it is no longer acting as a 4 pole motor. It draws about 3-4 times more current (as it should since it is 4 times lower in resistance) and is noisier than the ∆∆ wiring.
The free running current draw and the sound pressure level (dB) will be discussed in the next post. The noise could due to so many factors which I will leave till later to discuss
Here is another wiring arrangement. In theory it's no different to ∆1 but it did not work and I turned it off because above 5Hz the motor was stuttering and making unusual noises
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310450&stc=1
I then put it back into ∆∆ mode to see if it was OK, and it was.
First I strongly recommend not doing this unless you are competent and comfortable with mains AC and motors.
Having the right testing gear is also handy
If this is not you then this is for info only and if needed for you to discuss with your sparky
I found this Tecnomotori 3-4HP motor on a heap of scrap metal. It had no fan, cover to the connection, was a bit rusty, and the rotor was not turning, but as it looked like a reasonably HD motor and I thought I might be able to at least get the bearings out of it. When I opened it up (I had to belt the rotor a couple of times with a wooden mallet to get it out) the bearings seemed fine and the internal corrosion was surface stuff so just for fun I Meggered (checked the insulation resistance) and checked for shorting, and it was all fine so I though I would see if it would get it to run. I put the rusty rotor on a lathe and sanded the rust off. Blew out the dust and reassembled, still Meggering OK, I added an external old 240V computer fan to it, connected it up and it runs - a bit of vibe but no worse than some other motors I have. The end caps were a bit rusty so I tidied them up and gave them a lick-o-paint
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310446&stc=1
In ∆∆ mode its one of the quieter and coolest of my bigger motors in my collection so it's sort of become a bit of a test motor.
It owes me nothing so if I kill it I haven't lost anything.
This motor has 2 sets of terminals and is what is called a double delta/star (∆∆/Y). Sometimes the double delta is called a “serial delta)
Schematics for the connectors are shown in the following diagram.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310447&stc=1
If power is supplied to terminals 6,4,5 this connects the motor in ∆∆ mode (see ∆∆ in diagram) and it runs at 1490 RPM @ 50Hz and supposedly can deliver 3HP at 415V.
If terminals terminals 6,4,5 are shorted and power supplied to terminals 1,2,3 this creates a Y connection and it runs at 2990 RPM @ 50 Hz and supposed 4HP.
If the impedance (resistance) of any one coil is Z then the resistance between any two terminals in ∆∆ wiring is “4/3 Z" while for Y it is "Z"
I ran it on a 3HP 240V(1P) - 240V(3P) VFD in both ∆∆ and Y modes but as my HP measurer is not finalised I can’t check their power output yet.
The sound/noise/vibe output in Y mode is different - more about that later.
This could be the motor (hardly in the prime of its existence), the VFD or the interplay between the two or the connection mode or interplay between all three.
On some of these ∆∆/Y motors they come with 9 or even 12 wires which enables alternative ∆ wiring.
Just like the 3 wired on common point of a regular Y motor can be disconnected from each other and wired up to separate wires so to can the junctions between the coils at 1,2,3 and 4,5,6.
This is what I was doing in these pics here, it's very difficult to see what's going
Here the junctions (4/5/6) in the schematic (labelled 1/2/3 in the photo) are bing teased out and separated and extra wires added
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310453&stc=1
Everything is sleeved with fibreglass sleeves and sewed back in place
The red, white and black wires are the new wires that go back to the terminal box.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310452&stc=1
And then either expoxied or siliconed in place
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310451&stc=1
Connections 4,5,6 and 7,8.9 can be the connected up in a variety of ways to create several types of “parallel” ∆ formations like this arrangement which I'm calling ∆1.
It will have a much lower coil to coil resistance (Z/3) so should draw a much greater current and “in theory" produce more power.
In practice there is a fair bit of heat generated and
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310449&stc=1
∆-1 runs at 2990 RPM at 50Hz, so it is no longer acting as a 4 pole motor. It draws about 3-4 times more current (as it should since it is 4 times lower in resistance) and is noisier than the ∆∆ wiring.
The free running current draw and the sound pressure level (dB) will be discussed in the next post. The noise could due to so many factors which I will leave till later to discuss
Here is another wiring arrangement. In theory it's no different to ∆1 but it did not work and I turned it off because above 5Hz the motor was stuttering and making unusual noises
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=310450&stc=1
I then put it back into ∆∆ mode to see if it was OK, and it was.