Vacuum Chucks

[greyhound]

Want to set up a vacuum chuck what is the best set up? will be using it for mainly finishing up the bottom of small bowls.
Have been looking at an article in the English wood-turner December 2013 it is about using compressed air and creating vacuum via a generator(vacuum).
Had a look at the Webb site http://www.turners-retreat.co.uk/machinery/lathe-chucks/vacuum-chuck/ where this unit is available (also an agent is in Australia Bruce Bell) Any one have any experience with this type of system?
Also looked at the Vicmarc face plate system which requires a vacuum source .Where is the best place to buy a vacuum pump?:?
Do not want to use a vacuum cleaner.:no:

graham

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Where is the best place to buy a vacuum pump?:?
Do not want to use a vacuum cleaner.:no:

Sorry, I can't help you there. ButI wanted to say "good choice!"

Vac cleaners will burn out due to reduced cooling air-flow, unless you include a pressure relief valve. A pressure relief valve, unfortunately, tends to reduce the vacuum at the chuck, hence the grip.

It's a bad compromise.

A vacuum pump on the other hand... :2tsup:

[Hermit]

Thanks for starting this thread, Graham. I've been thinking along similar lines myself, and look forward to responses re vacuum pump sources in Oz.

Just checked out the vacuum heads in your link to the Turner's Retreat. Unfortunately, none suit my lathe - 1" x 10tpi. Might have to make my own, to mount on my faceplate. :~

[smiife]

Hi graham,
Have you looked at the holdfast system
from craft supplies usa, all you need
is a air compressor and they supply all
you need, I have one and i, am very impressed
can post some piccy, s if you are interested
Cheers smiife:2tsup:
www.craftsuppliesusa (http://www.craftsuppliesusa) .com

[greyhound]

Hi graham,
Have you looked at the holdfast system
from craft supplies usa, all you need
is a air compressor and they supply all
you need, I have one and i, am very impressed
can post some piccy, s if you are interested
Cheers smiife:2tsup:
www.craftsuppliesusa (http://www.craftsuppliesusa) .com

yes to the pictures thanks.:)
Checked out this site they have the same hold fast vacuum generator as the one available from Bruce Bell .

Where did you purchase your system from?

[greyhound]

Thanks for starting this thread, Graham. I've been thinking along similar lines myself, and look forward to responses re vacuum pump sources in Oz.

Just checked out the vacuum heads in your link to the Turner's Retreat. Unfortunately, none suit my lathe - 1" x 10tpi. Might have to make my own, to mount on my faceplate. :~
You can get a Vicmarc vacuum face plate with the spindle adapter to suite your lathe and then all that is needed is the vacuum source.
This is the way i am leaning towards

[Cliff Rogers]

Go to eBay & do a search on Refrigeration Vacuum Pump.

You'll get one for less than $100.

Check out this thread.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=146742

And this one.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=73842

And then try this search.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=woodturning+vacuum+chuck

[Cliff Rogers]

See if you can download this eBook.

http://www.carlford.info/pages/demos_classes/vaccum_chucks_demo/Vacuum_Chucks_Demo.pdf

[DaveTTC]

Thanks for the thread and posts


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Colin62]

You can get quite a good vacuum by using the intake port on your compressor. Plenty enough to use for a vacuum chuck, so if you've got a compressor anyway, you can get your vacuum chuck up and running with the purchase of a few couplers and some hose.

[greyhound]

Go to eBay & do a search on Refrigeration Vacuum Pump.

You'll get one for less than $100.

Check out this thread.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=146742

And this one.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=73842

And then try this search.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=woodturning+vacuum+chuck
Thanks for this information plenty of good ideas and different ways to set up a system:)

[greyhound]

Went to a friends workshop today to look at his vacuum set up on his Omega Stubby lathe .
His lathe is factory fitted with a vacuum port,all that you need is the vacuum source and a suitable face plate what a brilliant innovation :2tsup:

[Hermit]

You can get quite a good vacuum by using the intake port on your compressor. Plenty enough to use for a vacuum chuck, so if you've got a compressor anyway, you can get your vacuum chuck up and running with the purchase of a few couplers and some hose.

Sounds like a good idea, but I'm wondering if this might 'cook' the compressor, working against a constant vacuum?
My old compressor has no air filter, so it would be an easy matter to connect tubing, but i'm wary.

[dai sensei]

You can get quite a good vacuum by using the intake port on your compressor. Plenty enough to use for a vacuum chuck, so if you've got a compressor anyway, you can get your vacuum chuck up and running with the purchase of a few couplers and some hose.


Sounds like a good idea, but I'm wondering if this might 'cook' the compressor, working against a constant vacuum?
My old compressor has no air filter, so it would be an easy matter to connect tubing, but i'm wary.

Another concern would be that compressors stop when they get to the desired pressure, so then vacuum = 0

[Hermit]

Another concern would be that compressors stop when they get to the desired pressure, so then vacuum = 0

I was thinking that if it weren't for the temperature issue, it's easy to but a blower nozzle in the end of the outlet hose with the trigger taped down.

[dai sensei]

I was thinking that if it weren't for the temperature issue, it's easy to but a blower nozzle in the end of the outlet hose with the trigger taped down.

Unless you have a really good compressor, this would mean it runs continuously, which isn't the best for the compressor.

[Hermit]

Unless you have a really good compressor, this would mean it runs continuously, which isn't the best for the compressor.

Yep. That's the main problem, but I just had a thought - what if the blower was pointed at the compressor's head to help keep it cool for the 30min or so it takes to finish & sand the bottom of a bowl?

[Cliff Rogers]

If you have a compressor, you can try one of these.
http://www.caasafety.com.au/industrial-housekeeping/vac-u-gun
http://www.exair.com/en-US/Primary%20Navigation/Products/Industrial%20Housekeeping/Vac-u-Gun/Pages/Vac-u-Gun.aspx
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=compressed+air+vacuum+nozzle&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Qp5XU5KhHsXXkAWkpIGYCA&ved=0CGAQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=924
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Vac-u-Gun&client=firefox-a&hs=2jw&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=rcs&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=HZ9XU7FZiqqSBavegcAI&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=924

[Hermit]

If you have a compressor, you can try one of these.
http://www.caasafety.com.au/industrial-housekeeping/vac-u-gun
http://www.exair.com/en-US/Primary%20Navigation/Products/Industrial%20Housekeeping/Vac-u-Gun/Pages/Vac-u-Gun.aspx
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=compressed+air+vacuum+nozzle&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Qp5XU5KhHsXXkAWkpIGYCA&ved=0CGAQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=924
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Vac-u-Gun&client=firefox-a&hs=2jw&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=rcs&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=HZ9XU7FZiqqSBavegcAI&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=924

You're always a wealth of knowledge, Cliff. :2tsup:

I like the look of the Vac-U-Gun, and just emailed Compressed Air Australia for more info re price and distributors. Might be just the ticket for a low-cost setup. :cool:
Definitely looks better than my silly idea earlier.

I reckon it could work, if an air bleed was added before the Vac-U-Gun, to reduce the vacuum as needed.

[Cliff Rogers]

....if an air bleed was added before the Vac-U-Gun, to reduce the vacuum as needed.
If you study that PDF link I posted, it should show how that is done. (here it is again)
http://www.carlford.info/pages/demos_classes/vaccum_chucks_demo/Vacuum_Chucks_Demo.pdf
Look at page 2 & page 3, the tap near the gauge is used to release the vacuum but it can also be used as a bleed to adjust the vacuum.
When you do that into a vacuum pump, you would stick a cheap fuel filter on the open side so it didn't suck dust into the system.

Have a look at these pages as well.
His set up has 2 filters, one inline before the vacuum pump & one on the bleed intake.
http://www.laymar-crafts.co.uk/tip42.htm
http://www.laymar-crafts.co.uk/tip43.htm

[Hermit]

If you study that PDF link I posted, it should show how that is done. (here it is again)
http://www.carlford.info/pages/demos_classes/vaccum_chucks_demo/Vacuum_Chucks_Demo.pdf
Look at page 2 & page 3, the tap near the gauge is used to release the vacuum but it can also be used as a bleed to adjust the vacuum.
When you do that into a vacuum pump, you would stick a cheap fuel filter on the open side so it didn't suck dust into the system.

Have a look at these pages as well.
His set up has 2 filters, one inline before the vacuum pump & one on the bleed intake.
http://www.laymar-crafts.co.uk/tip42.htm
http://www.laymar-crafts.co.uk/tip43.htm

Thank you Cliff, for all the links & ideas you've posted in this thread. I actually downloaded the VC Demo pdf yesterday and absorbed it's contents. I'll check out the Laymar links shortly.
Edit: I just saved copies of both Laymar pages. I'm building up a nice little library of vacuum chuck related stuff. The font in the Laymar pages is horrible, but after changing it to Arial on my saved copies, it's much more readable.

I'm not 'tight' - if I could possibly afford a commercially-made setup, I'd run out and buy one tomorrow. For me, it's a DIY vacuum chuck system or nothing.

For bowls with a lip, a plywood disc with tabs is fine, but some, like the one I'm finishing at the moment, a vacuum chuck would make me feel much more secure. I think I can get away with a plywood disc for my current one, but only just. Even considered hot-melt gluing the lip to a disc, but.....

I'm hoping that the Vac-U-Gun isn't too dear. It looks pretty cheapish. I won't need to use it very often, so it might suffice.
Otherwise, I'll do the eBay hunt for a cheap vacuum pump.

Thanks again.

[Cliff Rogers]

...
I'm hoping that the Vac-U-Gun isn't too dear. It looks pretty cheapish. I won't need to use it very often, so it might suffice.
Otherwise, I'll do the eBay hunt for a cheap vacuum pump.

Thanks again.
Don't count on the Vac-U-Gun being cheaper than a vacuum pump.

The only Vac-U-Gun I found one eBay was more than $300.
You will get a vacuum pump, brand new, for less than $100 on eBay.

[Hermit]

Don't count on the Vac-U-Gun being cheaper than a vacuum pump.

The only Vac-U-Gun I found one eBay was more than $300.
You will get a vacuum pump, brand new, for less than $100 on eBay.

Wow, they're keen! For what it is, I expected <= $50. There's almost nothing to them.

I'll give up that idea then, and buy a refrigeration vacuum pump as you suggested in an earlier post. I can get a 3.6cfm for about $90 w/ free postage, like this one: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Electric-3-6CFM-Single-Stage-1-4HP-Rotary-Vacuum-Pump-Refrigerant-R12-R22-R134-/131127571259?pt=AU_Gadgets&hash=item1e87cff33b#ht_4004wt_996

[dai sensei]

Yes that vac gun is an expensive way to do it, plus your compressor must have the capacity to drive it too. I started with a venturii pump on my compressor to drive the vacuum, but ended up going for a vacuum pump as my compressor struggled a bit driving it (see http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=146742). That thread also shows the seal using a rubber band, but I have since removed it and glued on some closed cell foam, as the rubber kept leaving a black mark when ever it slipped.

One thing you also have to be careful of is using too much vacuum, 24" is plenty for holding most things, but even that can be too much for thin walled structures.

[Hermit]

Yes that vac gun is an expensive way to do it, plus your compressor must have the capacity to drive it too. I started with a venturii pump on my compressor to drive the vacuum, but ended up going for a vacuum pump as my compressor struggled a bit driving it (see http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=146742). That thread also shows the seal using a rubber band, but I have since removed it and glued on some closed cell foam, as the rubber kept leaving a black mark when ever it slipped.

One thing you also have to be careful of is using too much vacuum, 24" is plenty for holding most things, but even that can be too much for thin walled structures.

Thanks for that, Neil. It's a steep little learning curve, but I'm getting there (slowly).
I even considered cheap old second-hand vacuum cleaners from the local tip recycling section and replacing them as they died, but the cost would soon exceed that of a properly-made vacuum pump. I'll go and have a read of your thread now.
Edit: Great thread, Neil. Thanks for the link. :2tsup:
(I've saved it into my little vacuum chuck library folder for future reference.)

[Cliff Rogers]

That thread of Neil's is the very first link I put in this thread.

[Hermit]

That thread of Neil's is the very first link I put in this thread.

Oh. Sorry, Cliff, I don't know how I missed it. :B:-

[dai sensei]

That thread of Neil's is the very first link I put in this thread.

That's how I found it :rolleyes:

[Hermit]

That's how I found it :rolleyes:

That's right - rub it in.

[DaveTTC]

That's how I found it :rolleyes:

thats funny


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[greyhound]

Wow, they're keen! For what it is, I expected <= $50. There's almost nothing to them.

I'll give up that idea then, and buy a refrigeration vacuum pump as you suggested in an earlier post. I can get a 3.6cfm for about $90 w/ free postage, like this one: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Electric-3-6CFM-Single-Stage-1-4HP-Rotary-Vacuum-Pump-Refrigerant-R12-R22-R134-/131127571259?pt=AU_Gadgets&hash=item1e87cff33b#ht_4004wt_996

Yes agree this is the way i am going after checking out all the previous information .
one question what is the difference between a single stage pump and a dual stage ??:?

[Hermit]

Yes agree this is the way i am going after checking out all the previous information .
one question what is the difference between a single stage pump and a dual stage ??:?

Seems to be a commonly asked question. I just did a quick Google. https://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en-AU&source=hp&q=vacuum+pump+single+stage+vs+two+stage&gbv=2&oq=vacuum+pump+single+stage&gs_l=heirloom-hp.1.1.0l2j0i22i30l2.1844.11313.0.13969.24.23.0.0.0.0.688.4111.2-3j6j1j1.11.0....0...1ac.1.34.heirloom-hp..13.11.4111.tv1FnuwP3BQ

This result seems to cover it pretty well: http://www.hyvac.com/tech_support/2or1Stage%20Pumps.htm

Basically, it seems that a two-stage can achieve a higher vacuum pressure - not important in our case since too much vacuum can kill thin-walled bowls. They can also achieve the desired vacuum more quickly - not sure if this is a consideration here. Perhaps someone who uses one can tell us how long it takes for a single-stage to pull the required vacuum?

By the way, I got a reply on my Vac-U-Gun query - $152 + GST for just a gun without other accessories like bags, hose etc. Still waaay too dear.

[Cliff Rogers]

:2tsup: Currently I am whoop whoop in the bush with poor internet, I'll chech out those links when I get home.
You don't need a stack of vacuum, you just need a pump that can run for a fair while without overheating.

[Hermit]

:2tsup: Currently I am whoop whoop in the bush with poor internet, I'll chech out those links when I get home.
You don't need a stack of vacuum, you just need a pump that can run for a fair while without overheating.

Sounds good to me. For mine, I'll try to afford one of the ones I linked to this Tuesday, (payday), after the power bill is paid.
Meantime, earlier I ordered a couple of double-sealed bearings for a spindle adaptor.
Still gotta find pipe, fittings, some sort of bleed valve and a gauge, but I'll get there. Got an engineer mate in Sydney who can make bits and pieces as necessary.
Than the rest is only turning a handwheel attachment for the bearing and a couple of various sized vacuum chucks.

Edit: I just noticed that the number of watchers, (9 total), had jumped by two in the last 24 hours since I found it, so I just bit the bullet and bought one. All other similar pumps are more expensive.
Ha, there goes the budget, and so much for replacing my seized router table motor this week. :D

Greyhound, if you plan to buy one, it's probably worth getting in quick. Only 3 left and a number of people (guests) watching this thread.

[smiife]

Hi guys,
Sorry i didn, t get back sooner, it seems you
may have made your mind up now but it all
seems a lot of messing around to me, If you
have a compressor and i assume you do, this
set up easy to use and ready in a few minutes
anyhow i said i would post a few piccy, s........
hope these help someone:;
Cheers smiife:2tsup:

[DaveTTC]

What is that thing worth smiife and where do I get one from


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

Hi guys,
Sorry i didn, t get back sooner, it seems you
may have made your mind up now but it all
seems a lot of messing around to me, If you
have a compressor and i assume you do, this
set up easy to use and ready in a few minutes
anyhow i said i would post a few piccy, s........
hope these help someone:;
Cheers smiife:2tsup:

G'day Michael. Thank you for posting the pics. I seriously considered a vacuum generator. That could be the best way for Greyhound to go, I reckon, but I decided to go with a vacuum pump for a few reasons: -

First, my little old compressor is pushing to even reach 60psi - I usually only use it for pumping up my pushbike tyres and blowing dust off my turnings. It has no filter, either, and the tank is full of water, dust and God only knows what else that might clag up the vacuum generator.

Secondly, I can put the vacuum pump system together for far less $ - my engineer mate in Sydney is sending me down some suitable stainless steel sheathed flexible vacuum hose, a gauge, a needle-type (bleeder) valve and is turning the fitting for the hose to attach through the bearing. He also has vacuum-seal bearings and has offered me a couple. (He worked for CIG for 30 years, and is a wealth of knowledge on the subject.)
I can turn the other bits on the lathe - a handwheel fitting and some vacuum cups/chucks. So all in all my whole system will only cost me the pump - $100, plus some scrap timber.

Finally, I can also use the vacuum pump for a small vacuum clamp table. :cool:

Can't wait to have a go at some natural-edge bowls.

[Cliff Rogers]

For taps, filters and fittings, try Supercheap Auto.
They have a compressed air range that works fine for vacuum.
They also have cheap inline fuel filters.

[Hermit]

For taps, filters and fittings, try Supercheap Auto.
They have a compressed air range that works fine for vacuum.
They also have cheap inline fuel filters.

Are inline fuel filters really good enough for this purpose? I've seen references to them being used, but I thought that due to the low surface area of the filter element they'd clog a bit too quickly. I was thinking of looking for something a little bigger.
I also saw one reference to using a container inline with the filter, to drop out the larger particles first, cyclone-style, like in some dust extractors.

Edit: That reference was in dai sensei's thread, here: http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=146742&p=1472391#post1472391 .

Also, in the same thread, TTIT shows a good-looking inline 40 micron air filter that can be pulled apart and cleaned when necessary, here: http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=146742&p=1460877#post1460877
Looks like one of them might be the go, or a combination of the two.

[dougturner]

I have enjoyed the back and forth about the vacuum chucks and their different systems, but can anyone convince me I need all that, as I have been happy with my Cole Jaws or Jam(b) Chucks for years now. Vacuum chucking seems a lot of muckin' about, but maybe I have missed something along the way????? :roll:

[Hermit]

I have enjoyed the back and forth about the vacuum chucks and their different systems, but can anyone convince me I need all that, as I have been happy with my Cole Jaws or Jam(b) Chucks for years now. Vacuum chucking seems a lot of muckin' about, but maybe I have missed something along the way????? :roll:

Natural-edge bowls?

In my case, I can't get Cole jaws to go on my little 50mm generic scroll chuck, either. I'm planning on buying a Longworth chuck when I can, but a vacuum chuck covers both bases.
Eventually, I'll buy a bigger better scroll chuck that will take Cole jaws, but not just yet. $ are pretty tight right now.

Edit: On the subject of air filtration, I just bought one the same as TTIT's on eBay - $11.51 delivered.
The link: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Auto-Car-Paint-HVLP-Spray-Gun-1-4-MINI-INLINE-AIR-FILTER-WATER-TRAP-Tool-/321155762031?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item4ac660076f#ht_1671wt_926

[smiife]

What is that thing worth smiife and where do I get one from


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

Hi dave,
Yeah the web address Is....www.woodturnerscatalog.com (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com)
It Is from craft supplies usa.
the price on the web site is US $288
It, s called a holdfast vacuum system
and works a treat, I have never had any problems
with the system and never lost a bowl...........yet:no:
(Fingers crossed)
Hope this helps you and others
Cheers smiife:2tsup:

[Evanism]

smiife, that's a great link, thanks. This is the direct link: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/102/5387/Hold-Fast-6%22-Vacuum-Chuck-System

I'm wondering, as I'm thick, does anyone have a video of this beastie in operation?

Bummer its only 1 and 1 1/4" x 8 TPI though...

[Big Shed]

My friend, Mr Google, found this for me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPfv2frGpvU

[Hermit]

There are a few more useful vids on vacuum chucking in general here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=vacuum+chuck

[smiife]

sIiife, that' a great link, thanks. This is the direct link: http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/102/5387/Hold-Fast-6%22-Vacuum-Chuck-System

I'm wondering, as I'm thick, does anyone have a video of this beastie in operation?

Bummer its only 1 and 1 1/4" x 8 TPI though...

Hi evanism,
I don, t believe for one minute you are thick......
I have a KISS approach ,,, keep...it ..simple...stupid
and it could not be simpler..!!!!!!!,
as some one has already added a link have a
look and you will see what I mean..
You can get an Insert adapter to suit your thread

[DaveTTC]

Hi dave,
Yeah the web address Is....www.woodturnerscatalog.com (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com)
It Is from craft supplies usa.
the price on the web site is US $288
It, s called a holdfast vacuum system
and works a treat, I have never had any problems
with the system and never lost a bowl...........yet:no:
(Fingers crossed)
Hope this helps you and others
Cheers smiife:2tsup:

thanks, I'll check that out now .... what is the advantage of this system over a vacuum pump ... I have not priced a vacuum pump - maybe they cost more than I thought.

This is one of those things I thought it would be nice to get eventually


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

thanks, I'll check that out now .... what is the advantage of this system over a vacuum pump ... I have not priced a vacuum pump - maybe they cost more than I thought.
This is one of those things I thought it would be nice to get eventually
Dave the turning cowboy
turning wood into art

Dave, the main advantage to the HoldFast vacuum generator seems to be ease of setup.

A vacuum pump costs $100, a vacuum gauge about $20 delivered, a lever ball valve for vacuum release/adjustment $10-$20, a double-sealed bearing <$5, an air filter $11, then hose and fittings, plus some turning for the vacuum cup(s) and handwheel fitting.

A link to the pump I bought: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Electric-3-6CFM-Single-Stage-1-4HP-Rotary-Vacuum-Pump-Refrigerant-R12-R22-R134-/131127571259?pt=AU_Gadgets&hash=item1e87cff33b#ht_4004wt_996
There's still 3 left at this price - all others are dearer.

A link to the air filter as used in TTIT's setup: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Auto-Car-Paint-HVLP-Spray-Gun-1-4-MINI-INLINE-AIR-FILTER-WATER-TRAP-Tool-/321155762031?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item4ac660076f#ht_1671wt_926

" " " a gauge: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vacuum-Gauge-50mm-0VAC-1-Bar-30-Hg-1-8-BSPT-Male-Bottom-connection-751-/111123034867?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item19df72f2f3

This (UK) supplier, (where the gauge comes from), has heaps of fittings, hose, etc.: http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/context-pneumatic-supplies-cpm/m.html?item=111176405528&hash=item19e2a15218&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
(You might be able to find this stuff locally - I was lucky and a mate in Sydney is giving me most of what I need.)

If you read back through the last couple of pages you'll find a bit more info.

Also, I've attached a pdf originally provided by Cliff earlier in the thread that provides some more useful info on building one. It's worth saving a copy of this, if you go the DIY route.

[smiife]

thanks, I'll check that out now .... what is the advantage of this system over a vacuum pump ... I have not priced a vacuum pump - maybe they cost more than I thought.

This is one of those things I thought it would be nice to get eventually


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

Hi dave,
I think hermit may have already answered your question :doh: Too late again...
The only advantage I thought about was that I already had a air compressor
so I guess if you don, t have one , you would have to price both options:;

[Hermit]

Hi dave,
I think hermit may have already answered your question :doh: Too late again...
The only advantage I thought about was that I already had a air compressor
so I guess if you don, t have one , you would have to price both options:;

Sorry if I stepped on your toes, Michael, but after doing all that hunting for sources of the various bits, I wanted to share the knowledge.

Regarding a compressor for running the vacuum generator, apparently it needs to be a decent size to maintain enough constant pressure, too, according to that 'Vacuum Chuck Demo' pdf.
(Definitely not my little old beast.)

[smiife]

QUOtE=Hermit;1769667]Sorry if I stepped on your toes, Michael, but after doing all that hunting for sources of the various bits, I wanted to share the knowledge.

Regarding a compressor for running the vacuum generator, apparently it needs to be a decent size to maintain enough constant pressure, too, according to that 'Vacuum Chuck Demo' pdf.
(Definitely not my little old beast.)[/QUOTE]

Hi hermit
No toes hurt here mate:U
All INfo gathered helps everone interested
and also sharing our knowledge with each other
Is what this forum Is all about isn, t it ?
I think the compressor capacity needs to be at least 60psi

[Hermit]

Hi hermit
No toes hurt here mate:U
All INfo gathered helps everone interested
and also sharing our knowledge with each other
Is what this forum Is all about isn, t it ?
I think the compressor capacity needs to be at least 60psi

I didn't put it very well - I meant the size rather than pressure of the compressor, so that it can maintain the needed pressure without running full-time. Noisy, if nothing else.

Edit: Covered in section 5.3 of that pdf

[smiife]

I didn't put it very well - I meant the size rather than pressure of the compressor, so that it can maintain the needed pressure without running full-time. Noisy, if nothing else.

Yeah they can get a bit noisy,,,,,,,
I have mine 20 metres away under the house
and my dust extractor is outside the shed too......
So It annoys the neighbours and not me:o

[nalmo]

I had toyed with the idea of vacuum chucking for some time before coming up with the following.

The handwheel on my Nova lathe will fit a standard size bearing. There is already a threaded hole to secure it in place with a grub screw.
311965

I made up a wooden adapter to fit the end of a vacuum cleaner hose and a snug fit to the inside of the ball bearing.

311968


The spindle is free to turn while the hose remains stationary. Just in case it gets knocked out, I usually tape it to a support. The vacuum cleaner hose has a sliding "bleeder" valve which I leave slightly open to prevent the vacuum cleaner from overheating.
311966

I bought a "Beall" spindle tap to suit my lathe and made up a number of different sized chucks with a circular rebate to which I glued some closed cell rubber piping. Works a treat! No need to worry about sucking in some dust - that's what the vacuum cleaner was made for.

311967

Total Cost
Bearing - about $2
Rubber - about $5
Beall Spindle tap - $28 (+$10 postage from US)

[Hermit]

I had toyed with the idea of vacuum chucking for some time before coming up with the following.......

My original thought was to simply use a vacuum cleaner, but everyone and everything I read told me that it would burn the motor out due to insufficient air flow, even with the bleeder open.

You might have struck it lucky with a vacuum cleaner that can handle it. :cool:

What's it like for extra-thin-walled bowls? No crushing?

And no UFO's when turning a tenon off the bottom?

[DaveTTC]

Nalmo

Where did you get your spindle tap ... I got the wrong size from the states. Mine is 1" x 8TPI but I have a NOVA 3000 so should be the same as yours


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[nalmo]

Nalmo

Where did you get your spindle tap ... I got the wrong size from the states. Mine is 1" x 8TPI but I have a NOVA 3000 so should be the same as yours


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

Dave, I got the spindle tap from Lee Valley in US (from memory, surface postage was about $10), I have 1-1/4 x 8 spindle thread (Nova 1624).

So far, I've had no problems with flying saucers. The bowls are held on very firmly with the bleeder open a small way. For thin walls (which I haven't tried yet), I'd just open it a bit further. The ball bearing is not an airtight seal, nor is the rubber bead. wouldn't be too hard to introduce a few small point for leakage if you were concerned. I have not been able to budge the item with the vacuum running.

I checked the temp of air coming out of the vacuum cleaner outlet. Slightly warm, but not more so than when used for cleaning the house.
I bring up the tail stock to secure the piece once the lathe stops turning, turn off the vacuum, then I don't have to leave the vacuum running & reposition the piece when I continue turning.

[Hermit]

Dave, I got the spindle tap from Lee Valley in US (from memory, surface postage was about $10), I have 1-1/4 x 8 spindle thread (Nova 1624).

So far, I've had no problems with flying saucers. The bowls are held on very firmly with the bleeder open a small way. For thin walls (which I haven't tried yet), I'd just open it a bit further. The ball bearing is not an airtight seal, nor is the rubber bead. wouldn't be too hard to introduce a few small point for leakage if you were concerned. I have not been able to budge the item with the vacuum running.

I checked the temp of air coming out of the vacuum cleaner outlet. Slightly warm, but not more so than when used for cleaning the house.
I bring up the tail stock to secure the piece once the lathe stops turning, turn off the vacuum, then I don't have to reposition the piece when I continue turning.

Interesting. There are definitely two schools of thought on the subject.
My (Piranha) vacuum cleaner wouldn't be very suitable. It has a valve built into the top that sucks air heavily if the paper filter is clogged, and it also has a temperature cutout switch built in. I used to use it on my OSS before I bought a DC, and it would turn itself off after about 15min of fine dust and would take a couple of hours to 'reset'. The last thing you want is to have the vac shut down mid-turning. That could be bypassed though, I guess.
Either way, I've already shelled out for a vacuum pump which should be here tomorrow or Wednesday.

[DaveTTC]

Interesting thought .... DC system .... could you divert a line of your DC to use for vacuum chucking. I have a DC not set up yet. I guess it would be hard to regulate and know how much pressure you really have


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

Interesting thought .... DC system .... could you divert a line of your DC to use for vacuum chucking. I have a DC not set up yet. I guess it would be hard to regulate and know how much pressure you really have
Dave the turning cowboy
turning wood into art

Good question Dave. A bit outside my comfort zone, but the man to ask would be BobL, who usually hangs out in the Dust Extraction forum.
I don't think my little 1000W, 100cfm DC would be much good - it gets pretty hot if the paper filter is clogged. Like a vacuum cleaner, it relies on air flow through the motor for cooling, too.
If it's likely to work, you could probably add a vacuum gauge.

[Evanism]

I have a silly 1hp DC with 600 CFM. As a test, I just put the 100mm hose over the end of the winder on the lathe. It sucked itself on like an octopus. The suction coming from the working end of the lathe was impressive.

I'd imagine some sort of rubber plumbing supply (like a toilet seal or cut up plunger) would give an even better seal on the handle end.

No good if I want to sand at the same time. :(

[Hermit]

I have a silly 1hp DC with 600 CFM. As a test, I just put the 100mm hose over the end of the winder on the lathe. It sucked itself on like an octopus. The suction coming from the working end of the lathe was impressive.

I'd imagine some sort of rubber plumbing supply (like a toilet seal or cut up plunger) would give an even better seal on the handle end.

No good if I want to sand at the same time. :(

With the right bleed, it might well work. They really do suck, don't they?

A correction, too. Hearing that your's is 600cfm, I think mine might be similar - 500cfm. It's 1000W, (1 1/3HP), a drum-type DC.
When I bought it from H&F, it was listed at 500cfm I think, but earlier when I looked at the identical Scheppach-branded DC, it says 109cfm. That's where I got my figure from for the earlier post.

By coincidence, I had the plumber in earlier today (yesterday now) to replace that seal on my toilet and had a good look. Might do nicely. I should have asked if he had another with him. :doh:
(I had (clean) water spraying onto the floor when I flushed.)

[DaveTTC]

That was my other thought ... would it have anough to vacuum and still use one port of dust extraction ... guess I am wanting too much


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

I thought these might be of interest:

311988

311989

Courtesy of the 'Bruised Brothers'.

The movie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0ZOSUWiLVY

The pdf: http://www.goldentrianglewoodturners.org/GTW/Documents_files/Building%20a%20vacuum%20Chuck2008.pdf

A lot of interesting info, well worth a look-see.

They recommend not turning below 75 pounds pressure, or above 200-250 pounds.

[DaveTTC]

Have not watched the clip yet but even the charts look great .... will get to this later in my day


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

My vacuum pump arrived this morning. :clap:

I forgot to mention earlier - the eBay listing describes them as 60Hz, but they are actually 50Hz and suitable for use in Oz. (I contacted the seller before buying, but forgot to mention it here.) I thought he was going to correct the listing, but he hasn't done so yet.

Also, the manual says that it's 3.3cfm, not 3.6cfm as described in his listing, but I'm not going to quibble over 0.3cfm.

[DaveTTC]

My vacuum pump arrived this morning. :clap:

I forgot to mention earlier - the eBay listing describes them as 60Hz, but they are actually 50Hz and suitable for use in Oz. (I contacted the seller before buying, but forgot to mention it here.) I thought he was going to correct the listing, but he hasn't done so yet.

Also, the manual says that it's 3.3cfm, not 3.6cfm as described in his listing, but I'm not going to quibble over 0.3cfm.

and when are you bringing it to my place ;)


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

and when are you bringing it to my place ;)

Dave the turning cowboy
turning wood into art

:roflmao: :roflmao::roflmao:


After filling it with oil and giving it a run, I'm surprised at just how quiet it is. Sucks well, but so far I can only test it with my thumb, until the other stuff arrives.
Two bottles of oil were supplied, but it took 1 1/2 to fill it, so I still need to buy more for a future oil change.

I had a good read through all of the relevant threads last night to determine the best thickness of neoprene for the cup seals. I saw 1mm, 3mm and 10mm. 10 seems too thick and might allow bowls to move a bit too much on the chuck, so I averaged the 1mm and 3mm, buying 1m x 300mm of 2mm closed cell neoprene. Only $14. I figure if I cut it a little wider than the width of the lips on the vacuum cups to allow it to conform to the bowl shape, it should seal well.

Bought a 1" x 10tpi BSF tap last night, too, so I can thread the bottom of the vacuum cups and not blow more $$$ on faceplates or nuts to glue in the bottom.

Getting there, but I've gotta sit on my hands for a bit now and wait for all of the bits and pieces to arrive.

I came across another very good, informative pdf on vacuum chucking last night, too, written by William Noble, (an Aussie). (Attached)
It also has a good section at the end on making a Longworth chuck.

[turnerted]

Steve
I use 1mm closed cell foam for my vacuum chucks.It's used as an underlay for floating timber flooring ,much cheaper than your closed cell neoprene.
Ted

[Hermit]

Steve
I use 1mm closed cell foam for my vacuum chucks.It's used as an underlay for floating timber flooring ,much cheaper than your closed cell neoprene.
Ted

Thanks for the tip, Ted. I'll keep that in mind when I need more.
And I thought $14 for a metre of 2mm closed cell neoprene was cheap.
My main concern was to not use black rubber, since I've read that it can leave a black mark on the workpiece that's hard to remove.

[DaveTTC]

Hermit had the oppurtunity to bring me his new set up but laughed in my face.

With one option left I had little choice. So I found an old varanda post

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/devu8eqa.jpg

Cut a bit off

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/hu8adu6a.jpg

Then a found a wheel that I never put to use

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/e5a4u4uz.jpg

and took a bit off

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/juhusegu.jpg

Oh here is a curtain rod so of that may come in handy

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/mugytyva.jpg

Ok back to that lump of oregon

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/9avajede.jpg

Better make it round

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/9eja2evu.jpg

And maybe a hole

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/yse6ymu5.jpg

now that hub and curtain rod, that could be a fit

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/4une4y3u.jpg

Not aussie without a bit of construction pine

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/bureta5e.jpg

Man there's alot of pictures here ... maybe I better post this and finish in another post



Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[DaveTTC]

Carrying on with construction pine ... a hole could be good

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/jamysavy.jpg

But why settle for one when you can have two

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/yqu5ynyn.jpg

Now the oregon with the hole you may have noticed fitted the break handle on my mini jet. Lets see .... if we cut the curtain rod shorter and put the hub in the hole could the second hole in the pine ....

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/9u2ezady.jpg

Yeah I think that works, Oh!!!! the big hole in the pine - I can plug that

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/3ymuge9y.jpg

Talking about plug .... maybe if I plugged this in

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/01/ymybanez.jpg

Ok guys .... for no lay out I have a vacuum chuck using what I had.

Must say it is a noisy little sucker



Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

Methinks you've been following Repliconic's Indian build for too long. :D (But where's the body filler?)

Looks good, and definitely simple and cheap. Watch that vac cleaner though, for overheating, and thin-walled stuff. A vacuum gauge might be a good addition.

You'll have to report on how it goes after you test it out on your first bowl project.

My luck isn't real good, if I tried that I'd have all sorts of problems, or kill my vacuum cleaner at the least. I'm still happy going with my version.

[DaveTTC]

Methinks you've been following Repliconic's Indian build for too long. :D (But where's the body filler?)

Looks good, and definitely simple and cheap. Watch that vac cleaner though, for overheating, and thin-walled stuff. A vacuum gauge might be a good addition.

You'll have to report on how it goes after you test it out on your first bowl project.

My luck isn't real good, if I tried that I'd have all sorts of problems, or kill my vacuum cleaner at the least. I'm still happy going with my version.

Yeah I wont stick with the vac for too long ... noisy as ... where do you keep your vacuum pump? Is the key under the flower pot?

It does hold ... not sure if I'm game to try it on a bowl or not?


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

Yeah I wont stick with the vac for too long ... noisy as ... where do you keep your vacuum pump? Is the key under the flower pot?

No key under the flower pot, but the back door's always unlocked. Just watch out for my guard dog - Jack Russel's are pretty savage. (At least, he thinks he is.)


It does hold ... not sure if I'm game to try it on a bowl or not?
Dave the turning cowboy
turning wood into art

I think you should be fine on larger stuff, with a fair bit of vacuum area. Just be careful if you make a small vac chuck for little stuff, the vacuum cleaner might not have enough pull. They're great in the cfm department, but not so good for actual vacuum pressure, inHg or whatever.

Vacuum pumps are the opposite - they can pull plenty of vacuum, but don't move much air, 2-5cfm typical, so the seals all need to be much better.)

Don't forget a seal on the lip of your vac cup/chuck.

[dougturner]

Natural-edge bowls?

In my case, I can't get Cole jaws to go on my little 50mm generic scroll chuck, either. I'm planning on buying a Longworth chuck when I can, but a vacuum chuck covers both bases.
Eventually, I'll buy a bigger better scroll chuck that will take Cole jaws, but not just yet. $ are pretty tight right now.

Edit: On the subject of air filtration, I just bought one the same as TTIT's on eBay - $11.51 delivered.
The link: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Auto-Car-Paint-HVLP-Spray-Gun-1-4-MINI-INLINE-AIR-FILTER-WATER-TRAP-Tool-/321155762031?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item4ac660076f#ht_1671wt_926

Nice try, Hermit! Yes, you can refinish the bottom of a natural edged bowl without a vacuum chuck. I make up a circular disc of form ply of a size suited to the bowl diameter I am finishing, mount it on a face plate and trim the outside on the lathe, pad the outside circumference of the ply with a suitable medium (felt, rubber tubing, plastic tubing), cut a piece of router mat bigger than the diameter of the ply disc, drape the router mat over the ply disc. Carefully fit the reversed natural edged bowl over the router mat making sure that the router mat is in contact with the complete outside diameter of the padded disc and bowl, and bring up the tailstock to the original centre of the bottom of the bowl. "Tighten tailstock to taste", and redo the bowl bottom to remove the chuck marks, leaving about a one eighth nib at the centre. This is then taken off with the Dremel, and the refinished by hand. I also have a Longworth Chuck which I made about 20 years ago, and I use regularly. It was made as a stop gap measure, and with full intention of building a really nice one later, but I just haven't got around to that one yet, as the original does the job even though it wouldn't win any beauty contests. Doug.:;

[Hermit]

Nice try, Hermit! Yes, you can refinish the bottom of a natural edged bowl without a vacuum chuck. I make up a circular disc of form ply of a size suited to the bowl diameter I am finishing, mount it on a face plate and trim the outside on the lathe, pad the outside circumference of the ply with a suitable medium (felt, rubber tubing, plastic tubing), cut a piece of router mat bigger than the diameter of the ply disc, drape the router mat over the ply disc. Carefully fit the reversed natural edged bowl over the router mat making sure that the router mat is in contact with the complete outside diameter of the padded disc and bowl, and bring up the tailstock to the original centre of the bottom of the bowl. "Tighten tailstock to taste", and redo the bowl bottom to remove the chuck marks, leaving about a one eighth nib at the centre. This is then taken off with the Dremel, and the refinished by hand. I also have a Longworth Chuck which I made about 20 years ago, and I use regularly. It was made as a stop gap measure, and with full intention of building a really nice one later, but I just haven't got around to that one yet, as the original does the job even though it wouldn't win any beauty contests. Doug.:;

I know that you can using a jam chuck, Doug, but it's much more messing around and costlier than using a vacuum chuck. Thanks for the tips on your method, though. Filed away for future reference.
I'll still use jam chucks to finish the bottom of my lidded boxes.

Personally, I'm getting really sick of continually making up plywood discs to suit the bottom of each new (non natural-edge) bowl that I make as well. They're piling up but now I'll turn the old ones into various-sized vacuum chucks/cups.
Just did it again this afternoon, but not for too much longer I hope.

I'll get a Longworth chuck soon as mentioned, for the normal edged ones, but decided on a vac chuck first because it covers both types. I was going to make my own Longworth chuck, but Gary Pye sells a nice one to suit a 10" swing mini-lathe for about $100, so I'll take the lazy option there.