And so it begins !!! [Archive]

Tangoman

29th April 2014, 09:26 PM

Good one Cam, we're overdue for a build log and a strip build is especially welcome.

Will be following with great interest.

Thank you for that, I intend to post as the build progresses up to the maiden voyage !
I have never built a kayak before, in fact only done some simple furniture, am mainly aturner!
lets see where this journey leads !!

Cam

Christos

30th April 2014, 12:05 AM

This should be an interesting work in progress to follow.

Tangoman

4th May 2014, 07:58 PM

G'Day Folks,

Update on what I have achieved this week.

Forms cut out, sanded to the lines and centres cut out. Bow and stern forms bevelled.

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Next step is to layout the forms on the strongback at correct spacing and secure them in place, the small end forms need cutting and gluing to the bow and stern.
Next major job is to mill the Cedar into strips - looking forward to that, especially the clean up afterwards !!!!
Plan is to space and secure forms monday/tuesday, mill the timber friday arvo - if the neighbours missis isnt on nights as it'l be noisy !!

LEARNS for this week

When cutting the plan sheets allow an inch of paper around the lines, as when cutting to the line if its less the jigsaw blade can pull the paper from the wood. If you allow an inch the jigsaw base will hold it in place.

Cheap isnt necessarily crap. I bought a low angle block plane from Bunnings (Trojan Brand) for $15 - I expected to end up throwing it away in disgust _ I was wrong - I sharpened the blade and it cuts very well. Beats paying $154 for the Bailey version, mind you the Bailey will out last me !!!

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Accuracy - Dont be too fussy and drive yourself nuts trying for perfection. This is a large item and a millimetre here and there will not be noticed nor will it affect the usability of the Kayak !!!

This little relatively cheap sander has saved me countless hours - BUY ONE !!!!!!!!!!!

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Biggest Learn - I CAN do this !!!! LOL !!!!

Regards,
Cam

labr@

4th May 2014, 08:35 PM

Good progress there bloke. Are you going to bevel the strips or cove and bead? Some people swear by cove and bead but there are good reasons for bevelling too.

I bought one of those cheap block planes some time back and had some use out of it. Then one day I found an old Falcon, made around 1950 (older than me!) for not much more $ and bought that too. The Falcon is one of my 2 favourite hand tools and the cheapy sits all alone in the drawer. Apparently there are still a few around so if you come across one at a good price snap it up.

My other favourite hand tool is one that could come in handy for this build too - a japanese saw. It's the only type of saw I've ever been able to do neat accurate cuts with. There are various brands but I have the Z saw flexible cross cut.

richardb9

4th May 2014, 11:23 PM

Hi Cam,
I have built 2 strip kayaks so far, and it is a great and satisfying hobby. Just a word of advise...when machining your strips, try to get them all exactly the same thickness, as it saves heaps of time later in the project, and makes for a "fairer" hull.
Kiwi Richard B.

Tangoman

5th May 2014, 06:02 PM

Fellas, Thanks for your input. I too am converted to pull saws, much easier to use !
After milling i may run any odd strips through the planer.

Cam

titchtheclown

6th May 2014, 07:33 AM

This plane is perfect for beveling thin strips and tidying up form edges.
http://m.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/SCA-Block-Plane-Mini/321712
At the price they are almost a disposable item.

Nanigai

6th May 2014, 08:42 AM

richardb9

6th May 2014, 03:46 PM

Hi Cam and Others,
Just another tip here when cutting the strips...you need to have the strips cut as quarter sawn...ie, the wide grain pattern should be on the edge of the strip, not on the face, and all strips must be this way, or you will never get your hull "fair"...the wide grain pattern is harder than the surrounding wood, and when sanding, you remove more of the softer wood, leaving the hard part higher. Cedar and oregon both have this problem.
Richard B9

anewhouse

7th May 2014, 07:13 PM

Great timing Cam, I am currently reading Nick Schade's book "The Strip Built Sea Kayak" and thinking I'd like to do a stripper as well. Look forward to following your build as a first timer which i would be as well. Have you decided on your joint preference yet, Bead & Cove or bevelling? I'm not sure which way I'd go but I'm leaning towards bevelling. Anyway good luck with your build, looking forward to more pictures and your experience.
Cheers, Ian

Ian, I think you are leaning in the right direction. :) If you are patient, it isn't hard to do a very neat job with beveled strips.

A lot of people, including me, think that bead and cove is a waste of timber and a waste of time.

If things go wrong with bead and cove, it is likely to look worse than beveled strips.

There are certain decorative patterns that involve a lot more work if you use bead and cove and there are certain patterns with which your nice straight lines will become wavy as you sand the deck.

All eleven of my strip built kayaks have been built with bevels. I follow Nick's methods from "The Strip Built Kayak" pretty closely and it works well for me.

Tangoman

7th May 2014, 08:19 PM

G'Day Fellas,

I really need some help with aligning the forms properly before I make a terminal stuff up !

I have the forms spaced out correctly (? see below) and made sure they are vertical - BUT I cant get the waterline reference lines to line up nor the ones on the corner of the forms. The forms are reasonably well cut out - I dont think there is any gross errors here. I THINK I am wrong to use the lines on the corners of the forms as these are the marker points for where the first strip goes for the hull and deck and will hence be curved, is this thinking correct ?

I glue a strip to one form (#6) at the the waterlevel reference line and hold it in place on form #1 at the reference line and it dips up to a 1/2" below the intervening forms marks, yet when I eyeball the lines they basically line up except form 4 (this whole form appears too damn small!).

Ignore the comment about form 4 !! I dashed into the garage following a sudden thought and measure the form spacing - I've got form three in the wrong place, its out by an inch !

What method should I use to ensure that the waterlevel reference lines line up ?

Cam

labr@

7th May 2014, 09:48 PM

I THINK I am wrong to use the lines on the corners of the forms as these are the marker points for where the first strip goes for the hull and deck and will hence be curved, is this thinking correct ?

Yes you're right in thinking that's wrong :? :U. If you tried to set up the sheer line marks in a straight line then you would be in good company - it's something that happens to a lot of first timers. Not all of them can pick that there is something wrong first up though so your thought processes are good. It's just that there is a lot to learn.

The pic below turned out a bit smaller than I expected but if you click on it you should get an enlarged view.

Hopefully it confirms what I think you already know.
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You are also correct about this being important to get right. I spent a lot of time in several sessions over a period of days doing mine. It was frustrating at times but once everything is locked in correctly the job can succeed. If the set up is wrong there is no way to correct it later.
How you make them line up depends a bit on the type of strongback. If it is an internal box beam then my understanding is that the cutouts in the forms need to be just a little oversize and they are adjusted/locked in place using wedges and screwed on blocks - basically whatever works for you. I have not used this method though so someone else may have better advice.
A laser level is invaluable for checking alignment all the way down the row. If you don't own one try to borrow one for the job. Actually anything with a laser attachment would probably do. I tried a string line to start with and had all sorts of trouble.

Just another thought: Have you ensured the spacings are taken from the edge of each form that the strips will rest on?

Nanigai

7th May 2014, 10:11 PM

Ian, I think you are leaning in the right direction. :) If you are patient, it isn't hard to do a very neat job with beveled strips. A lot of people, including me, think that bead and cove is a waste of timber and a waste of time. If things go wrong with bead and cove, it is likely to look worse than beveled strips. There are certain decorative patterns that involve a lot more work if you use bead and cove and there are certain patterns with which your nice straight lines will become wavy as you sand the deck. All eleven of my strip built kayaks have been built with bevels. I follow Nick's methods from "The Strip Built Kayak" pretty closely and it works well for me.ELEVEN, bloody hell it must be addictive........hope I enjoy it as much as you obviously have. I will take your advice as the final piece of info that turned me fully to bevelled edges rather than bead N cove. I had not heard anyone mention this other potential problem before ("your nice straight lines will become wavy as you sand the deck") which makes a lot of sense to me particularly if you were to sand away too much of the cove edge, once done it couldn't be put back and would no doubt produce the effect mentioned.... big trap for newbies. With almost square edges that probably couldn't happen with beveled edge builds. Another potential problem removed, BIG thank you anewhouse. Now which one to build? Cheers, Ian

Tangoman

8th May 2014, 06:32 AM

Labr, many thanks for your post,its nice to know I was thinking along the right lines regarding reference lines!

I will hopefully finish off the alignment at the weekend and be stripping shortly !

Cam

Tangoman

11th May 2014, 08:19 PM

Hi Folks,

Did what I set out to do this week.

Forms aligned and set in place.
Cedar milled - GEE, what a mess that was, I'll be vacuuming the garage for weeks to come !! Dont know if I have done enough, easy enough to do more if needed.

Installed the sheer strips on both sides this evening. Couldnt be bothered with a photo, will post next weekend when more is done.

Off now for wine and bed !!

Regards,

Cam

Hawko

12th May 2014, 10:20 PM

Cam
Its great fun and much better than veg'ing in front of the box!
Last week I finished a Night Heron High Deck and all the sanding, head scratching and cussing at strips, epoxy and varnish that won't behave is all worth it in that first paddle on the water. Its almost a relief to get some scratches on the hull. Some photos attached of the maiden paddle.
I took photos throughout the build and will post them somewhere when I get a chance and send link.
Nick's videos are worth a look when you get stuck.
I agree with some others that cove and bead is a waste of time and good decision on the pull saw.
Some tips learnt the hard way- don't go too hard with an orbital sander, don't use the good "indoor" iron when you need to steam and bend that one strip, tie down straps are great when you need to join the hull and deck and somehow brace the hull when you glass the outside then take it of the form (my hull warped dramatically inwards and I had to put in a brace to widen it to fit the hull).
Have a ball and look forward to seeing your progress.
Sean

Tangoman

13th May 2014, 05:39 PM

Hawko,

Thats a beautiful kayak - well done ! Sure beats vegging in front of a tele !

i am slowly thinking on ideas for the deck, pattern wise, could you do me a big favour and post a piccie of the deck area ? Also the kayak on the wall in the photos deck looks stunning too, any chance of a photo of that one ?

Regards,
Cam

labr@

13th May 2014, 07:15 PM

Some time ago, somewhere Allan Newhouse posted a photo (or more) showing some of his deck designs. Thes are mostly done with straight strips and just a few curved ones but are spectactular in appearance. It would be worth looking at them too.

I went searching but can't find any of the pics either here or on the Blue Heron forum.

If we ask nicely he may direct us to them.

PAGING MR NEWHOUSE............PAGING MR NEWHOUSE.........:U

anewhouse

13th May 2014, 08:00 PM

Thanks for the endorsement Bob.

I have been away from home visiting grandchildren and competing in a couple of kayak races, so I haven't spent as much time on the forum as I usually do.

Here are a couple of links that I think illustrate the sort of deck pattern that you are describing.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=164255
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=164255
http://www.blueheronkayaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2418
http://www.blueheronkayaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1520

As you can probably see, the small child's kayak featured in the first thread is a miniature version of her parents' kayaks. Mine is similar.

Is that any help?

labr@

13th May 2014, 09:09 PM

It was a help to me - it pointed me to the right time frame in my search for the photo I was thinking of. It's on this page and shows a significant portion of your fleet.

http://www.blueheronkayaks.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1367&start=30

Cam, this photo also shows how you can get interesting deck patterns with few curved pieces. The light and dark areas were roughly joined in an S shape then a constant width slot was cut to allow fitment of a thin strip between them. The S shaped strips and the outer 2 strips each side are the only curved strips on the deck.
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I think that the contrast between light and dark is what gives the most effect.

Hawko

13th May 2014, 09:40 PM

Cam
Thanks.
The one on the wall is my first -a 12ft wood duck hybrid. The hull is marine ply stitched and glued with the deck stripped with WRC and Huon Pine. I made this one for fishing in lakes and rivers so put a fair size hatch held down with magnets and some rod holders built in. I also mixed up some polyurethane foam (man that stuff is wild) so I had floatation at both ends. Its been a great boat to get away for a few days fishing down the coast.
I went a bit silly with the deck of the Night Heron as I wanted some curves. I cursed this decision many a time while stripping as sometimes there was too much pressure on the strips and they would split. I then got into steaming and used a little violin plane (?) to shape those more difficult pieces. The strips are also WRC and Huon Pine. I haven't got around to putting in a hatch as I recon that a bag with rope on it will do the job and is more of a play thing for the kids and I.
Sean

Tangoman

13th May 2014, 10:40 PM

Gee, the title says it all !!

Those yaks are awesome !! Thanks for the ideas, I think I'll settle for just finishing this one ! They are a great excuse for building more yaks though!

thanks heaps for the ideas,

Cam

Tangoman

19th May 2014, 09:29 PM

G'Day Folks,

Just an update on progress.

Have started stripping the hull, works progressing well, a few snags found and learned from.

I am using hotmelt glue rather than staples as I wanted to avoid the staple holes - this might not be the best decision for a first kayak (there will be more :U). I wrapped a layer of masking tape around the forms so as to avoid the glue sticking too well to the rough surface of the particle board, the tape not the glue is pulling away from the forms where the bend gets strong. Judicious use of small nails helps here, LOL !!

Solution for the deck will be to wrap the forms in gaffer/duck tape so as to avoid this, althought the deck does look to need very little in the way of twisting. Advice please from those that have done it - will this work ?

Must admit to being concerned as to how easily the forms will come out, I know a shearing blow works to "crack' the glue - so fingers crossed !!

Have been bevelling the strips with the plane, this works well and I think its worth missing out on the bead and cove stage of milling the timber. The next one will be done the way Nick Schade does it, no/minimal hotmelt and lots of clamps.

LEARNS - My garage floor isnt level and I have to move the strips around to get the plane to bite all the way along
Scarf joints are easy using the belt sander - thank god for CA glue !!

Next stages are to complete the hull, plane and sand it then glass it before removing the forms and glassing the inside. Then flip the strongback over and start on the deck. I will buy some contrasting timber, Pawlownia, for a few accent strips on the deck, not decided on the pattern yet, will decide as I do it probably.

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Regards,
Cam

labr@

19th May 2014, 10:43 PM

Wow, a lot of progress there in a short time!

Are you doing scarf joints on all strips? I only did them on the sheer strips and butt jointed the rest. As long as the joints don't line up next to each other this is OK.

I tried all sorts of things to hold the strips down. Ended up using small nails through timber pads on the deck and wished I'd done the hull the same way.

I notice a few shadows along strip edges. This indicates that the strips are not perfectly aligned and this is something to avoid as you can only sand/plane the surface down to smooth it - too much and you could be light on for thickness.
If your strips are of varying thickness then it is more important in my opinion to line up the inside edges. The reason for this is that I did not do this well enough and sanding the interior smooth is much more difficult than smoothing the exterior.

One thing that helps hold the strips in alignment is lots of small plastic clamps that bridge the joint as shown here:

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This was the rubber band phase (which came before the nail with timber pads phase) but you can see remnants of the fishing line and map pins phase. Did I mention the clamps and bendy wooden slats phase?

Keep up the good work. :2tsup:

Tangoman

20th May 2014, 06:24 AM

Thanks for your input Labr !
I hadn't thought of bridging the gap with clamps, I'll go to a cheapo shop on the way home and buy some. I've been using masking tape, which is ok but not strong enough where bends and twists exist.

Cam

richardb9

21st May 2014, 09:27 PM

Hey Cam,
Make sure there is nothing at all that can hold the finished hull to the jig, not even masking tape, as it can be a right pain to remove the jig even with nothing holding it in place. Not sure where you are using this hot melt glue, but make sure none of it gets onto the strip and the jig.

labr@

21st May 2014, 11:19 PM

Richard, the hot melt glue is a technique that replaces staples or nails. From memory I think it is used by Nick Schade (Guillemot) and Rob Macks (Laughing Loon). The idea is that hot melt glue has a somewhat brittle interface with the forms/strips so the forms come loose with a sharp rap sidways.

I dabbled with it and found it either didn't hold the strips well enough or pulled splinters out of them when knocking the forms out. That could have something to do with the glue as I vaguely recall that the right type is important.

Tangoman

26th May 2014, 08:29 AM

G'day folks,

Just a quick weekly update.

Stripping proceeding well, am stripping up one side only now till I reach the centreline, about four more strips needed, then cut it through and plane down to the centreline. Then complete the next side!

Have changed work work method a bit, instead of scarfing three strips into one before fitting it to the hull, I now scarf the strips but fit them individually, gluing the scarf joint as they are fitted. This allows me get an easier and better fit when bevelling the strips.

Regards,

Cam