Threading Wooden Faceplates

[Hermit]

I finally scored a 1" x 10tpi (BSF) tap today at a reasonable price, so I can make some wooden faceplates and thread up some vacuum chuck cups for my little lathe.

Unfortunately, though, I only have a 1/2" Jacobs chuck to mount in the tailstock, so can't fit the tap in it.

Probably a silly question, but any tips on how to get the tap to go in perfectly square?

I've never cut a thread in wood before. I was thinking I'd possibly mount the wooden faceplate in my scroll chuck using a waste block, bore a 7/8" hole with a Forstner bit, then remove the faceplate from the lathe and bore a 1" hole in a thick block which I could clamp to the new faceplate to guide the tap, but I thought I'd ask first in case someone has a better method of getting it perfectly square so it doesn't tear out the first threads as it squares up when I'm getting started. (My drill press only has a 1/2" chuck too, so it's no good for this.)

Thanks in advance.

[nalmo]

I used this method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE-OtSzoneU (Part 1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3PoLaJUjow (Part 2)

Once the thread was cut, reinforce with CA glue and go over once more with the tap to clean up threads


312078

[Hermit]

I used this method

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE-OtSzoneU (Part 1)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3PoLaJUjow (Part 2)

Once the thread was cut, reinforce with CA glue and go over once more with the tap to clean up threads


312078

Excellent. Thank you for that nalmo. Just what the doctor ordered. :2tsup:
I'm having one of those 'wish I'd thought of that' moments.

I thought it might have been a silly question, but I'm really glad I asked now. Sure beats my idea.
I have to wait a day or two for the tap to arrive from Sydney. Second-hand, but in excellent condition according to the eBay listing. The pic in the listing for the tap doesn't show the back of the tap, so I have my fingers crossed that it has a centred dimple for my live centre's point.
The CA is a good tip too, (not mentioned in the videos).

Edit: I just thought I'd add - if anyone else is looking for a 1" 10tpi tap and having trouble finding one, I got mine here: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11051.m43.l1123/7?euid=4ef46af2749440a9a000413b8ce70897&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com.au%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D321119537799%26ssPageName%3DADME%3AX%3ARTQ%3AAU%3A1123

$33 delivered. There are still 3 left, and you can specify either a 'bottoming' or 'intermediate' tap.

[chuck1]

my mate has a shroud that fits around the tap snugly, he machined out of metal, you could make one out of timber! then taps it by hand.

[Pat]

Steve, I'd get the matching Die to keep the spindle clean. I still have my 1x10 set from the old Teknatool. I am still looking for a M30x3.5 LH at reasonable cost for the Yellow Peril. I haven't been looking too hard, over the last 4 years:;

[Hermit]

my mate has a shroud that fits around the tap snugly, he machined out of metal, you could make one out of timber! then taps it by hand.

Sounds interesting, Charlie, but I can't quite picture what you mean. (I'm a bit slow sometimes.)

Just got a pleasant surprise - my new replacement router table arrived, along with the vacuum pump for the vac chuck setup. :cool:
H&F only told me yesterday afternoon that they were sending the router table. Very quick service/delivery. (The motor in the old one seized a couple of weeks ago.)



Steve, I'd get the matching Die to keep the spindle clean. I still have my 1x10 set from the old Teknatool. I am still looking for a M30x3.5 LH at reasonable cost for the Yellow Peril. I haven't been looking too hard, over the last 4 years:;

That's not a bad idea, Pat. Thanks, I might just do that. I just had a look and can get one on eBay for a similar price as the tap. (Thought they were dearer.)

[Pat]

Steve, nothing wrong with McJing (https://mcjing.com.au/categorybrowser.aspx?categoryid=50#BUTTONDIE) for the tap or dies. We don't use them as heavy as the industrial users do, thus P&N/Sutton can be price overkill. I did find this on epay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/P-N-Die-Nut-1-x-10-BSF-/201080943316?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2ed15bb2d4).

Of course if you can get a name brand for close to price, get it.

[Hermit]

Steve, nothing wrong with McJing (https://mcjing.com.au/categorybrowser.aspx?categoryid=50#BUTTONDIE) for the tap or dies. We don't use them as heavy as the industrial users do, thus P&N/Sutton can be price overkill. I did find this on epay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/P-N-Die-Nut-1-x-10-BSF-/201080943316?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2ed15bb2d4).

Of course if you can get a name brand for close to price, get it.

Thanks for putting in the time to do the search, Pat. Much appreciated. And the eBay one is even cheaper than the one I spotted this morning. It was about $30 delivered, about what the McJing die would cost with deliv.

I've already blown the budget for this fortnight, buying the vac pump, filter, tap etc, but will grab the one from McJings next payday. (The eBay listing for the P&N expires in 5 days. I'll keep an eye on it in case it's relisted though.)

My spindle thread is a little bit rough and could do with a cleanup.

Thanks again.

[Pat]

Steve, if you are up wollongong way, sometime, you could borrow my die, to save getting one for a at best yearly exercise.

As I mentioned before, I am running M30 now, so the 1x10 gear is surplus. We could always work out a mutually agreeable swap, no play money involved.:;

[Hermit]

Steve, if you are up wollongong way, sometime, you could borrow my die, to save getting one for a at best yearly exercise.

As I mentioned before, I am running M30 now, so the 1x10 gear is surplus. We could always work out a mutually agreeable swap, no play money involved.:;

Pat, that's a very kind offer, and one I might take up at some point. I hadn't noticed that you were semi-local. I don't drive any more, just ride an electric pushbike, but I do pass through Wollongong a couple of times a year by train on the way to visit my mate/adopted father in Sydney. Might be going up there pretty soon - he's giving me all of the vacuum hoses and fittings for my vac chuck setup. He's a retired CIG engineer, an expert on pressure and vacuum stuff. I'll pop you a PM if I do.

I'll keep a good eye out for an M30 x 3.5 LH die in my travels, too. That would be the perfect swap. Are you also after a tap in the same thread?
I assume that's 3.5 threads per centimetre and not per inch? And LH? That bit surprises me. So you need to lock the chuck in place for normal turning, or do you use your lathe from the other side and spin it backwards?

[Pat]

Hello Steve, the LH thread is for the Outboard side of my Woodfast M910 (http://www.woodfast.com.au/index.php?p=1_5), aka The Yellow Peril.

If the heavens coincide, you are more than welcome to break your journey to the big smoke. I am only 5 minutes walk to the station.

It is always good to meet up with formites.:)

[Hermit]

Hello Steve, the LH thread is for the Outboard side of my Woodfast M910 (http://www.woodfast.com.au/index.php?p=1_5), aka The Yellow Peril.

If the heavens coincide, you are more than welcome to break your journey to the big smoke. I am only 5 minutes walk to the station.

It is always good to meet up with formites.:)

:2tsup:
I didn't think of outboard turning. :doh:
Nice looking lathe, by the way. Mine's just a little 10" x 18" from Pop's Shed. Small, but more than adequate for a beginner like me.

[Pat]

Steve, the Yellow Peril is my third lathe after learning and deciding that turning is fun. I have used most Vicmarcs, Teknatool/Nova, a Stubby and various other makes and models and found that the Yellow Peril gives me the best compromise lathe. Bowl turning is my first love, but Spindle turning teaches more about tool use and control, which helps in bowl turning. I am only a competent intermediate. I know what I know and am not afraid to ask for help on the stuff I don't know. I don't think I'll get another lathe to replace the Peril, unless lady luck smiles on me and showers me with green notes:;

[NCArcher]

You haven't got a LH 1 x 10 have you Pat? Tap that is.

[turnerted]

Steve
I use a mcjing tap with no problems.In my case M30x3.5.After boring the hole,I just hold the tap in position using the live centre in the recess in the end of the tap.Then hold the tap with a spanner and rotate the driveshaft say half a turn then tighten the tailstock and keep repeating this untill the hole is tapped.Flood with CA glue and retap.
Ted

[Hermit]

Steve
I use a mcjing tap with no problems.In my case M30x3.5.After boring the hole,I just hold the tap in position using the live centre in the recess in the end of the tap.Then hold the tap with a spanner and rotate the driveshaft say half a turn then tighten the tailstock and keep repeating this untill the hole is tapped.Flood with CA glue and retap.
Ted

Thanks for that Ted. Another good method.
It looks like I wasn't asking such a silly question after all. :wink:

[Pat]

You haven't got a LH 1 x 10 have you Pat? Tap that is.

Tony, no mate. All my 1 x 10 stuff is right handed. I don't think I knew about Left Handed threading till the arrival of the Yellow Peril.:;

[Uncle Al]

I assume that's 3.5 threads per centimetre and not per inch?

Inch threads are specified as "TPI - threads per inch" (eg 1"dia by 10 threads per inch), were as metric threads specify the pitch, such as 30mm dia by 3.5mm pitch (distance between top of each peak in the thread).

Hope this helps.

Alan...

[Tim the Timber Turner]

I assume that's 3.5 threads per centimetre and not per inch?

No not quite right.

It's metric M30.

30 is the diameter in mm.

3.5 is the distance between any 2 threads in mm.

The way I was taught was to select any 3 threads, measure and divide by 2.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Tim:)

[Hermit]

Inch threads are specified as "TPI - threads per inch" (eg 1"dia by 10 threads per inch), were as metric threads specify the pitch, such as 30mm dia by 3.5mm pitch (distance between top of each peak in the thread).
Hope this helps.
Alan...



No not quite right.
It's metric M30.
30 is the diameter in mm.
3.5 is the distance between any 2 threads in mm.
The way I was taught was to select any 3 threads, measure and divide by 2.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Tim:)

Thank you guys, it does help. As you can tell, I'm a novice in the thread department.

By coincidence, as I write this I'm sitting here trying to puzzle out another, harder thread - that on the inlet to my new vacuum pump. I'd sort of thought it was 1/8" NPT, but after some measuring and some reading, I realise that it isn't. No taper, for one thing, and wrong dimensions. Not sure what fittings to ask for.

This is probably a stretch, but does anyone recognise it from the following pic with dimensions? I just took the photo and labelled it to email it and ask my mate tomorrow, but he's almost blind and might have trouble seeing it.

312187

Any help will be much appreciated.

N.B. I bought it off eBay, and the seller has no idea.

Edit: I just checked a BSPP chart, and it doesn't coincide with anything in that, either.

After more reading, 'SAE', 'JIC' or 'AN Flare' maybe? My measurement of the OD is only marginally smaller than 7/16", (11.1mm).
(The pump is a refrigerant vacuum pump.)

[Uncle Al]

Steve
Try contacting Pirtek in Nowra http://www.pirtek.com.au/pirtek-service-centre/?store_id=515
They only have a mobile service, but their vans are pretty well stocked with a wide range of fittings. Even if he can't supply what you want, he should be able to identify the thread and point you in the right direction for a supplier.

Alternatively, do you have an industrial supply business in Nowra?. Might be worth having a ride around the industrial estate and ask at a refrigeration or pump place, you never know your luck.

Good luck in getting your project up and going.

Alan...

[Hermit]

Steve
Try contacting Pirtek in Nowra http://www.pirtek.com.au/pirtek-service-centre/?store_id=515
They only have a mobile service, but their vans are pretty well stocked with a wide range of fittings. Even if he can't supply what you want, he should be able to identify the thread and point you in the right direction for a supplier.

Alternatively, do you have an industrial supply business in Nowra?. Might be worth having a ride around the industrial estate and ask at a refrigeration or pump place, you never know your luck.

Good luck in getting your project up and going.

Alan...

Thank you Alan. I appreciate the tip. Pirtek. I didn't think of them and will give them a go. I spent half the night on this, researching online, and am half-sure it's a 1/4" SAE 45 degree flare fitting.

I'll also check out Supercheap Auto, since they might have something to suit for auto air conditioning. The other possibility is Reece plumbing, they sell HVAC parts/fittings. I haven't spoken to my mate Jack yet, either.
(On an aside, I just noticed that you're in Sutherland, just up the road from him - he's in Taren Point.)

If I can't get something to suit, I still have two options. I can remove the fitting and try to match it's large bottom diameter, or I could put a hose & clamp over it.
I'll get there one way or another. :wink:

Back on topic, my tap arrived this morning. It does have a dimple in the back for my live centre, so I'm in business. :2tsup:

[MrFez]

Just had a look at the Ebay site and he has put his price up to $35 + postage. Bought one anyway....:rolleyes:

Dave

[Hermit]

Just had a look at the Ebay site and he has put his price up to $35 + postage. Bought one anyway....:rolleyes:

Dave

Oh, bugger. He must have noticed that the cheapest on eBay was $61 delivered. :rolleyes:
(Plus there's only one left.)

Mine had a bit of surface rust on it, but quickly cleaned up with a wire brush & a coat of WD-40.
He should have described them as 'Good', not 'Excellent', I reckon.

After cleaning it up, I put it in a 'Snap-Lock' bag to keep it in good nick between uses.

[MrFez]

Thanks for the tip Steve

[Hermit]

Thanks for the tip Steve

A great invention, those Snap Lock Bags. I keep a range of sizes and store everything in them that'll fit.

[DaveTTC]

Are you in Nowra ... that aint to far from me.

I too am after a 1" 10 TPI tap, I have a new 1" 8TPI tap I'd be happy to swap.

My 'vacuum chuck' I ended up just drilling a 1" hole and screwing it on by hand using a wrench for the last 1/4" till it bottomed out, then I trued it up after. This was only a small diameter so not such an issue.


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

Are you in Nowra ... that aint to far from me.

I too am after a 1" 10 TPI tap, I have a new 1" 8TPI tap I'd be happy to swap.

My 'vacuum chuck' I ended up just drilling a 1" hole and screwing it on by hand using a wrench for the last 1/4" till it bottomed out, then I trued it up after. This was only a small diameter so not such an issue.
Dave the turning cowboy
turning wood into art

Yep, still in Nowra, about 1/2km from the highway, on Kalandar St/Greenwell Point Rd. The main road that leads out to Culburra Beach, Greenwell Point etc.

If you pass this way, you're welcome to use my tap, or I could even post it to you and you could post it back when done. If you like, I can PM you my address & phone number.
If you pre-drill a bunch of blocks, we could tap them as a batch, enough to keep you going for a fair while. I only have a 50mm scroll chuck, though, so the blocks would need a 56mm tenon.
Edit: 2" square will fit in my scroll chuck jaws, too, if you don't need bigger.

312333

[DaveTTC]

Yeah send a PM, love to drop in if I am passing by. If you ever heading inland come my way, Jerilderie


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

Yeah send a PM, love to drop in if I am passing by. If you ever heading inland come my way, Jerilderie
Dave the turning cowboy
turning wood into art

Done.

[DaveTTC]

got it

You can post your vacuum pump over if you like. Let it run at your place for a couple of days first so you can save up some bulk hours to use in its absence ;)


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

got it

You can post your vacuum pump over if you like. Let it run at your place for a couple of days first so you can save up some bulk hours to use in its absence ;)

Dave the turning cowboy
turning wood into art


That's actually possible - I just need to make up a great big vacuum tank and evacuate it.

On that subject, too, I sorted out the thread on the inlet connection. It's 1/4" SAE flare, as I thought. I'll probably remove it altogether , though, and change to a BSPT fitting for compatability with the gauge and ball valves. (Two ball valves - one for vacuum adjustment and one for release. That way I don't have to re-adjust all the time.)

[powderpost]

I have had 30mm taps now for about three years and was always going to make some wooden face plates. This thread got me going. I needed some 150mm diameter, and bigger, and I don't have a chuck big enough, so I used a screw chuck. The boring of the hole and threading went beautifully, but when I went to withdraw the tap, the job wanted to unscrew off the screw chuck. I couldn't hold the job by hand so I drove a screw into the edge of the new wooden "face plate" and rested the screw on the tool rest. Job done.
Jim

[Hermit]

I have had 30mm taps now for about three years and was always going to make some wooden face plates. This thread got me going. I needed some 150mm diameter, and bigger, and I don't have a chuck big enough, so I used a screw chuck. The boring of the hole and threading went beautifully, but when I went to withdraw the tap, the job wanted to unscrew off the screw chuck. I couldn't hold the job by hand so I drove a screw into the edge of the new wooden "face plate" and rested the screw on the tool rest. Job done.
Jim

Hello Jim. I saw a tip along these lines the other day while researching vacuum chucks. It was suggested that it's a good idea to put a hole in the side of the chucks, not into the centre to cause leaks, of course, but so that a thin bar or screwdriver can be inserted in a similar fashion in case the chuck becomes locked onto the lathe spindle.
If the hole is back in line with the thread, leaks wouldn't be a problem anyway.

I think that tip was in the vid by the 'Bruised Brothers'. (Love the name.)

[Hermit]

A quick update, and a tip for anyone doing this.

I found some time this arvo to have a go at threading a block for a faceplate, from a piece of old Tas Oak.
It came up pretty good, and the thread's actually cleaner than the one on my metal faceplate:

312602

Thanks for all who contributed with tips. The live-centre method worked like a dream, and as suggested I gave the new threads a good soaking in thin CA and re-tapped, so it should last a while.
As the pic shows, I also put a slight chamfer on the end of the thread, to make it easier to begin screwing it onto the spindle.

My little scroll chuck doesn't have much margin for error when boring the hole, and none for threading right through with my intermediate tap, so I first attached a glue block with hot-melt glue, so I wouldn't run the Forstner bit into the bottom of the scroll chuck. No problems, and that worked well - I got a nice clean hole.
The plan was to then thread most of the way and finish the last few threads in the vice. That worked well too.

My little lathe has no spindle lock to hold things while threading, but since my scroll chuck is the 'Tommy Bar' type, I used one of the Tommy Bars resting on the toolrest to lock the spindle.
Now for the tip - don't do that!

312601

As you can see, I broke the @#$&% tip off the Tommy Bar. :doh: :B

Luckily, a 9/64" Allen key fits perfectly, or the whole thing would still be in the scroll chuck. I'll have to contact Pop's shed and see if I can get a new Tommy Bar, otherwise I'll find a suitably sized screwdriver and cut the end off to make it flat.
Lesson learned. :wink:

The spindle-threaded block that I made today is intended for a jig for boring and tapping future blocks, so I don't have to worry in the future.
The jig, an 8" diameter plywood disc with clamps and today's threaded block on the back, will hold a 2" to 4" square block firmly for both operations, and I'll drill a hole in the side for a screwdriver or similar, to rest on the toolrest. The disc will also have a shallow hole already drilled in the centre for the end of the tap, so I can use it to tap all the way through the block.

I have to wait for some M6 bolts to arrive, then I'll make up the jig and post a couple of pics back here in this thread.

[DaveTTC]

Nice job Steve

For lack of a spindle lock try this for tapping a thread

1) Spin your banjo round so your tool rest is on the other side of the lathe near the headstock.

2) set your tool rest around centre

3) Get your spanner for the spindle and with engaged on the spindle let the handle rest on the tool rest.

You will now be able to advance your tap without the work spinning. To back it out you may beed to put the spanner under the tool rest. I dont know if you need to work it in and out the same as you do with steel or if you can work all the way to the end of your hole.

Hope you dont loose another Tommy bar


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

Nice job Steve

For lack of a spindle lock try this for tapping a thread

1) Spin your banjo round so your tool rest is on the other side of the lathe near the headstock.

2) set your tool rest around centre

3) Get your spanner for the spindle and with engaged on the spindle let the handle rest on the tool rest.

You will now be able to advance your tap without the work spinning. To back it out you may beed to put the spanner under the tool rest. I dont know if you need to work it in and out the same as you do with steel or if you can work all the way to the end of your hole.
Hope you dont loose another Tommy bar
Dave the turning cowboy
turning wood into art

If only...
I don't have a spanner for the spindle, and there's no flat sides on it to take (a normal) one.
There are two very shallow holes, one in each side of the collar, for some type of spanner, like on a pushbike headstock, but I don't have one and they're not listed as a spare for this lathe. (A little 10" x 18" Pop's Shed generic lathe.)
You raise a good point, though. When I email Brian Bennett at Pop's Shed in the morning about a new Tommy Bar I'll ask if a spanner is available.

[Hermit]

You can see the collar and one of the holes I described here:

312623

[DaveTTC]

hope you can come by another spanner


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

hope you can come by another spanner
Dave the turning cowboy
turning wood into art

Yeah, there wasn't one supplied with the lathe, (I bought it new), but maybe there should have been.

[DaveTTC]

One would think there should have been one


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

One would think there should have been one
Dave the turning cowboy
turning wood into art

Maybe they usually include one and forgot to put it in?
Being new to it all, I just assumed that what I got is all there is.

I just sent him an email. I'll see what happens when he reads it tomorrow.

Here's hoping.....

[powderpost]

Those shallow holes are designed for a "C" spanner.
Jim

[Hermit]

Those shallow holes are designed for a "C" spanner.
Jim

Thanks for that Jim. I wasn't sure what they were called.
I hope I can get my hands on one.
Besides today's little problem, a few times now I've got the scroll chuck jammed and had fun trying to get it off while holding the handwheel with one hand. A 'C' spanner would make life much easier.

[Sturdee]

Steve,

I have one of those lathes as well and that is one of the two things wrong with it. I had the same problem and I used an old screwdriver to make a better one, just cut the end of it.

One day when I've time to spare I will grind two flats on it as well with a 1 mm angle grinder blade and make a spanner to fit it.

The other thing wrong with it was that the bed was not long enough to move the tail stock out of the way so I made a wooden extension for it to park the tail stock.

Peter.

[Hermit]

Steve,

I have one of those lathes as well and that is one of the two things wrong with it. I had the same problem and I used an old screwdriver to make a better one, just cut the end of it.

One day when I've time to spare I will grind two flats on it as well with a 1 mm angle grinder blade and make a spanner to fit it.

The other thing wrong with it was that the bed was not long enough to move the tail stock out of the way so I made a wooden extension for it to park the tail stock.

Peter.

Hello Peter. Mine doesn't have any flats on the spindle, only the two holes for a 'C' spanner. Is your's the one with a 12" swing? (Mines the 10" version.)

And regarding the tailstock, I have the same problem and am constantly taking mine off and 'parking' it on the shelf below my workbench when I don't need it. A wooden bed extension isn't a bad idea. Might have to 'steal' it. (The idea, that is, not your extension.)

[Sturdee]

Hello Peter. Mine doesn't have any flats on the spindle, only the two holes for a 'C' spanner. Is your's the one with a 12" swing? (Mines the 10" version.)


Steve,

Mine is the same being the 10 " version with the the two holes. But using the thin angle grinder blade it will be easy to grind the flats for a spanner. With me it's not an urgent thing as I have two other lathes ready for use, but when I have time again I will do so. Should only take 30 minutes or so as I have a few good grinders.:U




And regarding the tailstock, I have the same problem and am constantly taking mine off and 'parking' it on the shelf below my workbench when I don't need it. A wooden bed extension isn't a bad idea. Might have to 'steal' it. (The idea, that is, not your extension.)

Here is the link on what I did (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=146128). I find that it's nice and handy for moving the tail stock out of the way for face plate turning. It also allows me to use a long extension of 300 mm with my live centre to still give tail stock support and get close to the centre, especially handy for making pendants.

Looking forward to your adaptation.

Peter.

[Hermit]

Steve,

Mine is the same being the 10 " version with the the two holes. But using the thin angle grinder blade it will be easy to grind the flats for a spanner. With me it's not an urgent thing as I have two other lathes ready for use, but when I have time again I will do so. Should only take 30 minutes or so as I have a few good grinders.:U




Here is the link on what I did (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=146128). I find that it's nice and handy for moving the tail stock out of the way for face plate turning. It also allows me to use a long extension of 300 mm with my live centre to still give tail stock support and get close to the centre, especially handy for making pendants.

Looking forward to your adaptation.

Peter.

Thank you very much for that Peter. More info than I expected. :2tsup:

I didn't think to grind some flats on the spindle. :cool:
I'll see what Brian Bennett says in his reply tomorrow first. You never know, he might have 'C' spanners to suit. otherwise, out with the angle grinder. :wink:

And I love your extension. I'm saving the link to your thread for inspiration, along with copies of your pics. Looks like just what the doctor ordered, though I'll have to make a new benchtop. I made mine the exact size of the lathe. :(

[DaveTTC]

Steve,


Here is the link on what I did (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=146128). I find that it's nice and handy for moving the tail stock out of the way for face plate turning. It also allows me to use a long extension of 300 mm with my live centre to still give tail stock support and get close to the centre, especially handy for making pendants.

Looking forward to your adaptation.

Peter.

That is a great little set up there Peter.

What a friend of mine did in the states was very similar but he also had a keyed dovetail sliding 90º away from the lathe so his timber bed could slide backwards away from him as the user when parked.

Hope that makes sense.

You have done a ver sweet job of your extension BTW


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

That is a great little set up there Peter.
What a friend of mine did in the states was very similar but he also had a keyed dovetail sliding 90º away from the lathe so his timber bed could slide backwards away from him as the user when parked.
Hope that makes sense.
You have done a ver sweet job of your extension BTW
Dave the turning cowboy
turning wood into art

I won't sleep tonight, with all of these new ideas to toss around. When I got the idea of the jig for boring/tapping last night at 3am, I got back out of bed to draw it all up and order the bolts - didn't get back to bed until 5. :D

[Hermit]

I got a reply from Pop's Shed today.
Unfortunately, they don't have any 'C' spanners, but they do have a Tommy Bar for me. :2tsup:

[Pat]

Steve, you get C spanners from industrial tooling suppliers - Blackwoods etc and they are industrial type and cost. the Tommy bar is a much wallet friendly proposition. :;

[Hermit]

Steve, you get C spanners from industrial tooling suppliers - Blackwoods etc and they are industrial type and cost. the Tommy bar is a much wallet friendly proposition. :;

Thanks for that Pat. I did both a general Google search and an eBay search last night and couldn't find one the right size - 40mm. Nearest was 45mm to 55mm.
I really want a nice-fitting 40mm for my purpose.
I didn't think of Blackwoods, though. I'll have to try them.

Pop's Shed are going to give me a price on the Tommy Bar - it's covered.

[Tim the Timber Turner]

Visit your local bolt supplier and purchase a long hardened bolt of the right diameter, cut off the head and thread.

Bingo

Cheers
Tim:)

[Hermit]

Visit your local bolt supplier and purchase a long hardened bolt of the right diameter, cut off the head and thread.
Bingo
Cheers
Tim:)

Good idea. Better than my thought of using a screwdriver with the end cut off. I have a good local bolt supplier.
I'll wait and see how much Pop's Shed want for an original Tommy Bar first, though.

[Pat]

You can always turn a custom handle for the HT bolt. Most Tommy bars are a bit on the thin and short side for a good grip . . .

[Hermit]

You can always turn a custom handle for the HT bolt. Most Tommy bars are a bit on the thin and short side for a good grip . . .

That was what originally made me think of using a screwdriver, or a pair to be more precise. Good, ready-made handles. Turning a handle would be more fun though.

[DaveTTC]

I turn a handle every time I use a screwdriver


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Uncle Al]

I turn a handle every time I use a screwdriver

More often than not these days, I squeeze a trigger - a bit more noise, and much quicker:D

Alan...

[DaveTTC]

More often than not these days, I squeeze a trigger - a bit more noise, and much quicker:D

Alan...

glad someone got my humour ;)


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

glad someone got my humour ;)
Dave the turning cowboy
turning wood into art

It looks like at least 4 of us did, Dave. I was just too lazy to type and hit the 'Like' button, as did Alan, Pat and Christos. I forgot that you can't see the 'Likes' with the phone app. Sorry about that. My failing memory. :D

On another note, I just got a reply from Josh at Pop's Shed regarding price & postage for my new Tommy Bar - $0.
They're sending me one for nothing. :clap::clap::clap:
They're a great bunch, their support has been really good in the past and this tops all. I can very highly recommend them. :2tsup: (Worth a good plug, I reckon.)

Personally, I think I should have had to pay for my silly mistake. Instead, I'll order that 'Easy' finisher carbide tool next week that I've been meaning to get. :cool:

[Christos]

Great results from Pop's Shed, good one guys.

[DaveTTC]

great news on the tommy bar ... good on Pop's Shed


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[MrFez]

I have the tap all ready to go but found I don't have a 7/8" drill bit.

Searched ebay etc and all I can find are US suppliers that provide free postage to US customers but charge like a wounded bull for Australian customers. Bunning and Pops Shed don't have any. Does anyone have any ideas where I might find a 7/8 bit?

Cheers

Dave

[michael_m]

Would a 22mm spade bit cut the mustard? - it's only 0.23 of a mil out in theory.


(I can only assume it would cut the wood :p)

[Hermit]

I have the tap all ready to go but found I don't have a 7/8" drill bit.

Searched ebay etc and all I can find are US suppliers that provide free postage to US customers but charge like a wounded bull for Australian customers. Bunning and Pops Shed don't have any. Does anyone have any ideas where I might find a 7/8 bit?

Cheers

Dave

Dave, I used a 7/8" Forstner bit. Besides being easier to come by, it does a neater job. I got mine from Carbatec last year. In a set, but I'm pretty sure they also sell them separate.

Edit: Not so easy to come by after all, but see the following post.

[Hermit]

Dave, I just checked Carbatec and they don't appear to have any individual 7/8" Forstner bits any more. They don't even have the cheap set I bought now.

They do have a set containing one, actually a sawtooth set, but it's $58.50 + postage for a 16-piece set, here: http://www.carbatec.com.au/16-piece-sawtooth-bit-set_c8990
(The top set are imperial.)

I did manage to find a single one on eBay, from the US, for
AU$5.34 + AU$4.49 postage, here:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Drill-Bit-Toy-Makers-Forstner-Bit-7-8in-/251524294442?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a9004272a

[turnerted]

Steve
If you can't find the right size bit,just bore the nearest undersize then enlarge with your detail gouge.Thats what I had to do when I wanted a hole for my M30 tap and it worked fine.
Ted

[Hermit]

Steve
If you can't find the right size bit,just bore the nearest undersize then enlarge with your detail gouge.Thats what I had to do when I wanted a hole for my M30 tap and it worked fine.
Ted

I'm right Ted, I have a 7/8" Forstner bit and have already threaded one, but Dave, (MrFez), will be glad to hear this. :D
Good idea. :2tsup:

[DaveTTC]

7/8" = 22.225mm

I can get a 22mm forstner bit on ebay free delivery for around $4 AU. I know because I just got one

A spade bit would likely do the job too and easy to source if you want it in a hurry


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

7/8" = 22.225mm

I can get a 22mm forstner bit on ebay free delivery for around $4 AU. I know because I just got one
A spade bit would likely do the job too and easy to source if you want it in a hurry
Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

I thought a 22mm might be a bit tight, thinking about how hard it was to thread my piece of Tas Oak, but I guess it is only about 1/4mm under.

If boring right through, a spade bit might make a bit of a mess when breaking through, I was thinking. A Forstner or sawtooth bit would be cleanest in that regard.

[DaveTTC]

I just used a 25mm on either redgum or swamp mahogany ... not sure which piece it was. It is on my lathe now and I screwed it onto the spindle by hand with out using a tap but needer multigrips to get the last two turns ... it is perfect for what I am doing atm

I spindle tap would be so much better though


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[MrFez]

Thanks for all the good advice guys.

I have a 7/8 spade bit and thought it would do the job, unfortunately the length and narrow width of the shank resulted in much too much movement at the point of contact ~ and the spike (front guide of the bit - probably a better word for it) may interfere with what I wanted to achieve on the other end (Jam Chuck).

I'm now looking at the forstner bit that Hermit provided the link to.

Thanks for starting this thread Hermit, I've enjoyed and learnt from the comments and video links, not to mention given the credit card a workout. By the way, I see the taps have gone up again, now 39 + postage. He must be watching this thread.

Dave

[Hermit]

Thanks for all the good advice guys.

I have a 7/8 spade bit and thought it would do the job, unfortunately the length and narrow width of the shank resulted in much too much movement at the point of contact ~ and the spike (front guide of the bit - probably a better word for it) may interfere with what I wanted to achieve on the other end (Jam Chuck).

I'm now looking at the forstner bit that Hermit provided the link to.

Thanks for starting this thread Hermit, I've enjoyed and learnt from the comments and video links, not to mention given the credit card a workout. By the way, I see the taps have gone up again, now 39 + postage. He must be watching this thread.

Dave

Wow:o.
He's keen. That's pretty hot for a second-hand tap with some rust.

[DaveTTC]

easy tap ... if you can get a bolt the right size get an angle grinder and cut four slots down the bolt. You can grip the bolt in your lathe and with a sanding disc can sand/grind a leading taper on it to if you want.

We are only tapping timber ... a bolt sould more than do the job. As yet I have not been able to source a 1x10 bolt. I got a 1x8 which I can modify


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[DaveTTC]

$2.35 for a 22 mm forstner bit with free postage

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/06/erere2e7.jpg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131121779247?var=430285433253&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

price goes up and down withthe size chosen.



Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Sturdee]

As yet I have not been able to source a 1x10 bolt. I got a 1x8 which I can modify


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

When I was looking at taps I thought of a bolt or nuts to use but I could not get a 1 x 10 bolt or nut from any of the specialized bolt retailers in the Melbourne yellow pages only a lengths of threaded rod at exorbitant prices. So I settled on the tap from McJings.

Only use it occasionally as I find that I can get a 100 mm face plate from Pop's shed for about $ 14.00 which is more accurate for repeated use. Of course I don't have to pay postage as it is only a short drive from me.


Peter.

[Hermit]

As yet I have not been able to source a 1x10 bolt. I got a 1x8 which I can modify
Dave the turning cowboy
turning wood into art

I wouldn't have thought that this would be possible - you'd have to squeeze the threads closer together somehow, to get 10 threads to the inch instead of 8. :compress:

[Paul39]

My daily driver lathe has a 33mm X 3.5 spindle thread. The tap for same is an arm, a leg, and your first born child.

As I make mostly bowls using a chuck, and have a spur drive center that fits in the chuck, I have made face plates, sanding plates, a buffing wheel, and chucks to hold eggs etc., with a spigot that is grabbed by the chuck.

I have them all marked to match the #1 jaw so that the position is repeatable.

The system saves a lot of interchanging between face plate, chuck, and other accessories.

[Hermit]

My daily driver lathe has a 33mm X 3.5 spindle thread. The tap for same is an arm, a leg, and your first born child.

As I make mostly bowls using a chuck, and have a spur drive center that fits in the chuck, I have made face plates, sanding plates, a buffing wheel, and chucks to hold eggs etc., with a spigot that is grabbed by the chuck.

I have them all marked to match the #1 jaw so that the position is repeatable.

The system saves a lot of interchanging between face plate, chuck, and other accessories.

Sounds like you're well set up in that regard, Paul. :2tsup:

I should do the same for GP items, but my main interest in threading is really for vacuum chucking. I want to make a range of vac cups, threaded on the back. The 1" x 10tpi BSF taps are much cheaper, too. I got the first, second-hand for $33 delivered, then found a brand new one for $34 delivered. (The first is going to a worthy cause.)

At first I considered buying 3" faceplates, but that can get expensive pretty quickly, even at $14 each from Pop's Shed over here.

[Paul39]

Steve,

My post was just to throw in an alternative to making wooden face plates. It is a bit hard to make a 4 jaw chuck vacuum tight. :D

I have not aspired to a vacuum chuck yet. I can see where it would be handy for finishing natural edge bowls, which I do make.

[Hermit]

Steve,

My post was just to throw in an alternative to making wooden face plates. It is a bit hard to make a 4 jaw chuck vacuum tight. :D


A pretty good alternative - much easier to do, and as you mentioned, cheaper than buying a tap for a 33 x 3.5 spindle. There are vacuum setups available that go into a scroll chuck (or onto the spindle) and have a hose coming off the side, rather than through the spindle. You've probably seen them, you've been at it a lot longer than me. I was looking at the Vicmarc version yesterday. Not bad looking, but I'm too cheap. :D



I have not aspired to a vacuum chuck yet. I can see where it would be handy for finishing natural edge bowls, which I do make.

Making the vac system is keeping me out of trouble, too. Still a fair way off, but I'm slowly getting the bits and pieces together.

[DaveTTC]

I have come up with a design where vacuum chucking works with a face plate on your scroll chuck too ... I should have been a designer I'm sure


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

I have come up with a design where vacuum chucking works with a face plate on your scroll chuck too ... I should have been a designer I'm sure

Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

I thought about making that type too, but decided to go the usual way, through the headstock spindle, to keep the hose well out of the way.
Here's the Vicmarc ones I mentioned:

( http://www.vicmarc.com/default.asp?contentID=548 )
312847

[DaveTTC]

yeah I need to trick mine up a bit


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

yeah I need to trick mine up a bit

Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

A setup along those lines would be very fast and easy to set up then remove after use, compared to the through-spindle style.

[Sturdee]

Here's the Vicmarc ones I mentioned:
312847

I have the Vicmarc one, being the centre pic as I use the vacuum cleaner for my vac source. I've got mine with a chuck adapter so it screws straight on the head stock spindle or onto a chuck and have made my own cups using pvc pipe joiners onto small face plates. Pipe joiners came from the US as they are much more solid and stronger and were free. :2tsup:

Easy to put together and very accurate.


Peter.

[Hermit]

I have the Vicmarc one, being the centre pic as I use the vacuum cleaner for my vac source. I've got mine with a chuck adapter so it screws straight on the head stock spindle or onto a chuck and have made my own cups using pvc pipe joiners onto small face plates. Pipe joiners came from the US as they are much more solid and stronger and free. :2tsup:

Easy to put together and very accurate.

Peter.

Can I ask the price Peter?
I looked at the pretty pics on the Vicmarc site, but didn't query them regarding the cost.

I wouldn't trust myself to make a leak-proof rotating union if I decided to go with that method, but I'm wary of the cost of the Vicmarc.

To fit your home-made cups, did you have a problem getting them to fit on the Vicmarc rotating union? It looks like a fairly large diameter thread.

For the vacuum cups, I'm still up in the air as to whether I want to turn timber cups or use PVC. I like the idea of the PVC type, in a groove on a sealed timber faceplate.

[Sturdee]

Can I ask the price Peter?
I looked at the pretty pics on the Vicmarc site, but didn't query them regarding the cost.


Of hand I can't remember but I'll have a look tomorrow in the workshop to see if I can find the invoice. Wasn't cheap but cheaper then buying a vacuum pump for my compressor. Besides putting a through pipe through my lathes would be a fiddly task that I didn't want to do. This way I can put them on any of my lathes. Much simpler then fiddling about with different length of piping and couplers.



To fit your home-made cups, did you have a problem getting them to fit on the Vicmarc rotating union? It looks like a fairly large diameter thread.

No, I bought a few Vermec face plates that screws directly on the rotating union.



For the vacuum cups, I'm still up in the air as to whether I want to turn timber cups or use PVC. I like the idea of the PVC type, in a groove on a sealed timber faceplate.

I went the PVC type into a wooden disk attached to a faceplate, being a 100 mm, 75 mm and 50 mm in diameter. The PVC pipe joiner is covered with a special PVC seal that I got from RubberChucky (http://www.rubberchucky.com/shop.php?PVCSeals) in the US. They only fit the US pipe joiners, not ours, but as there was room in the parcel he gave me the joiners for free.

Could take some photos tomorrow if you like.

Peter.

[Hermit]

Of hand I can't remember but I'll have a look tomorrow in the workshop to see if I can find the invoice. Wasn't cheap but cheaper then buying a vacuum pump for my compressor. Besides putting a through pipe through my lathes would be a fiddly task that I didn't want to do. This way I can put them on any of my lathes. Much simpler then fiddling about with different length of piping and couplers.

No, I bought a few Vermec face plates that screws directly on the rotating union.

I went the PVC type into a wooden disk attached to a faceplate, being a 100 mm, 75 mm and 50 mm in diameter. The PVC pipe joiner is covered with a special PVC seal that I got from RubberChucky (http://www.rubberchucky.com/shop.php?PVCSeals) in the US. They only fit the US pipe joiners, not ours, but as there was room in the parcel he gave me the joiners for free.

Could take some photos tomorrow if you like.

Peter.

I think that will be too expensive for my blood, with Vermec faceplates etc. as well, Peter.
I think I'll stick to the through-spindle method.

If I use PVC for the cups, I'm planning to just use normal PVC pipe in the required diameters, with the 2mm closed-cell Neoprene that I bought the other day for seals, glued on the lip. Cheap, cheap, cheap - that's me. :D

I'll still have to set up the piping and couplers, becuase I want to put a vacuum gauge and bleed valve on it, and use the vacuum pump rather than a vac cleaner. Possibly two valves - one for vacuum bleed adjustment and another to use as an on/off switch to release a bowl with the pump running without upsetting my vacuum setting.

I'm just trying to work out how to attach my adaptor to the handwheel without drilling holes in it at the moment. I'll only drill if absolutely necessary.

Thanks for the link to the 'Rubber Chucky' site, too. I'd never heard of them.

[WoodWriteOz]

G'day Pat....did you get the tap you were looking for...I have one surplus and need a 1' x 10 TPI folloowing change in circumstances...send PM...Regards...Geiorge

[chuck1]

Regarding seals we used the white packaging foam with a vacuum pump on a jig on the table Saw, so it could well work on the faceplates?!
Just a thought!

[Hermit]

Regarding seals we used the white packaging foam with a vacuum pump on a jig on the table Saw, so it could well work on the faceplates?!
Just a thought!

That's a good idea Charlie. I've got some laying around somewhere. Definitely cheaper than buying neoprene.
For now, though, I've got a nice big chunk of 2mm closed-cell neoprene to put on the first couple of cups. I'm still not sure that 2mm is quite thick enough, but I'll see how it goes when I get to that stage.

Meantime, I just gave my boring and tapping jig it's trial run. Works really well, and no risk of breaking my scroll chuck Tommy bars now.
I made this jig for two reasons - first I wanted to thread blocks larger than 50mm sq/dia, but only have a 50mm scroll chuck and am too lazy to mess about with a glue block or tenon on these. The jig allows me to bore any block from 50mm to 100mm sq.
Secondly, this alleviates my concern about running either the Forstner bit or tap into the bottom of my scroll chuck.

314347 314348

In use, first the block is placed in the middle and the two arms are swung in against the sides and locked in place. With this design, the arms always stay parallel regardless of the size of the block.

Next the headstock is brought up, the block is slid to the centre and the live centre wound in against it.

Finally the 4 Allen head grub screws are snicked in to clamp the block firmly in place. They each have a point and slope slightly downwards, so they tend to grab the block and pull it down against the faceplate. Also, for the grub screws, there are tapped holes in the arms to suit the various block sizes from 2" to 4".

I bored a 6mm x 50mm hole in the side of the faceplate to take a screwdriver which locks the faceplate to the bed while tapping. (Just visible at the bottom of the thread tapping pic.)

This is a 95mm sq block.
Boring the hole, (lathe on slowest speed):

314349


Tapping the thread:

314350


Finit:

314351

It turned out surprisingly well balanced and doesn't jump around at all while boring, even at my slowest speed of 600rpm. I'm glad I put in the effort. Another useful little jig to add to my growing collection.

[DaveTTC]

looks very impressive


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art

[Hermit]

looks very impressive
Dave the turning cowboy
turning wood into art

Thanks Dave. Incidentally, that's your tap in the pic. My new one arrived today, so I'll post your's off to you on Monday morning. The 1" BSW sold quickly, too, and the $ will cover your postage, so you get it as a birthday present. :wink:

[DaveTTC]

Thanks Steve, appreciated. I have a few little tapping things I want to do soon


Dave the turning cowboy

turning wood into art