Saw parts have arrived

[michael_m]

I was rather an excited puppy today after coming home from work and finding a package of saw stuff from the sawplate group buy waiting for me.

The parts were all packaged tightly in cardboard, with no rattling:

315558

Inside the cardboard, the backs, plates and nuts were all packaged separately:

315559

And inside the bubble-wrap and brown paper:

315560

I'm feeling quite excited :U (not that I'm going to be doing anything with them for at least the next four weeks or so, but I'm excited by the concept of making the saws)

Which leads me to the first and second in a series of increasingly dumb questions about the saw-making process.


With the blueing, do I just clean that off with some sandpaper or 0000 steel wool, or is there some entirely more traditional or arcane way to do it?
To anchor the plate in the backs, do I glue them in with loctite or similar, or do I have to sqeeze the plate in a vise? (or both?)


Thanks heaps to Paul, Brett and Ron for the opportunity to have a go at making my own saws and for the straightforward way the group buy went off from my end.

Cheers, Mike

[Pac man]

http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=174196&p=1679106#post1679106

[Heavansabove]

Which leads me to the first and second in a series of increasingly dumb questions about the saw-making process.


With the blueing, do I just clean that off with some sandpaper or 0000 steel wool, or is there some entirely more traditional or arcane way to do it? Lemons are cheap at present, just cut one in half and rub it off! Any acid will do
To anchor the plate in the backs, do I glue them in with loctite or similar, or do I have to sqeeze the plate in a vise? (or both?) Either


Thanks heaps to Paul, Brett and Ron for the opportunity to have a go at making my own saws and for the straightforward way the group buy went off from my end.
May I also commend the toilers as well, and also Ray for his sterling work on the backs
Cheers, Mike

Cheers
Peter

[planemaker]

Hi Peter. Fair chance Mike was part of the group purchase of backsaw parts from Ron Bontz.

Stewie;

[Heavansabove]

Hi Peter. Fair chance Mike was part of the group purchase of backsaw parts from Ron Bontz.

Stewie;

Mea Culpa, see edited text above

[planemaker]

Mea Culpa, see edited text above

mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

[michael_m]

May I also commend the toilers as well, and also Ray for his sterling work on the backs
Cheers
Peter

Yes, definitely many thanks to Ray! :doh: The brass backs are beautiful - heft, length and straightness of the slot are all spot-on. The plates fit in very nicely.

And thanks for the answers to my questions too. As I said, the first of many.

(and yes, I was part of the group buy from Ron Bontz)

Cheers, Mike

[Heavansabove]

mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

Hang on, I make much more grievous errors than this, I need to leave scope for groveling apologies flowing from truly appalling blunders. And in any case I failed the Latin final - either because the Latin teacher hated me (perhaps with good reason), or I did not do any work for the exam.

[FenceFurniture]

......straightness of the slot are all spot-on. The plates fit in very nicely.Will you be able to cope with them all being slotted for Rip?

[michael_m]

I thought I might try and convert one to hybrid, but I'm not sure if I've got the tools to do it successfully :p.

[planemaker]

Hang on, I make much more grievous errors than this, I need to leave scope for groveling apologies flowing from truly appalling blunders. And in any case I failed the Latin final - either because the Latin teacher hated me (perhaps with good reason), or I did not do any work for the exam.

3 hail mary's in a mini skirt and high heels as your penance Peter and you shall be forgiven for any of previous sins.

Stewie;:no:

[Christos]

Will you be able to cope with them all being slotted for Rip?



:lolabove:

[IanW]

...To anchor the plate in the backs, do I glue them in with loctite or similar, or do I have to squeeze the plate in a vise? (or both?)...

As peter said, either will do, both would be a bit ott, I think! My personal preference is for the squeeze, but it needs to be done reasonably carefully so that the pressure is fairly even along the top of the saw. I try to squeeze it just enough that it needs gentle tapping to put it in place. On the first couple of backs, I was a bit too enthusiastic & over-tightened them, & had to hammer a piece of matching scrap along the slot to ease it. The main reason I prefer a friction-fit is because it's easy to adjust or remove, if required.

Using Loctite is probably easier, & ensures an even grip, but for one reason or another, the spines may need to come off, or be adjusted, sooner or later, & being glued in makes this a bit more awkward. Yes, all you need do is heat it sufficiently to get the Loctite to let go (as long as you don't use the stuff designed for high-temperature situations), but it's unnecessary bother, imo.

On the topic of removing blueing & polishing your new saw. I spent a good deal of time & elbow-grease polishing some up like a mirror, however, saw-sets and abrasive woods soon took their toll on my lovely polished surfaces, so these days I usually stop at 400 grit, which looks nice enough & is far less bother. That degree of polish, plus a coat of paste-wax every now & then, gives me a saw that looks pretty good & runs smoothly. You will need to keep some sort of protection on them if you live in an area where there's any humidity at all, because this steel seems to be very susceptible to rust. All the saw steel I've used over the last few years seems to be similar in that respect. It's not just minute-pitting sort of rust, either, it gets those deep zig-zag pits that are very unsightly! I also slather the part of the plate that goes into the handle with paste-wax, or some form of protection, because some of the woods I've used for handles are quite corrosive if in contact with bare metal. One of my favourites, She-oak, is particularly potent in that respect. :C

Have fun.

Cheers,

[FenceFurniture]

One of my favourites, She-oak, is particularly potent in that respect. :CIndeed Ian.

I made a drill stand from She Oak, into which I put my prized Colt Brad Points (German quality HSS which is much less susceptible to rust). When it came time to replace the drill stand there were about 4 bits that were little used and they had rusted in so badly that they had to be held in vise while I wound off the the drill stand. The lever of the stand was about 300-350mm long from the drill hole and even THEN there was quite some resistance to twisting. I should add that it definitely wasn't moisture causing the rust as the She Oak was brittle dry and the drills have plastic tubes inverted over them with Silica Gel sachets glued inside, like so:

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=231275&d=1346120489


Curiously, the cheap Chinese made Frost Twist bits in another stand of the same She Oak have no sign whatsoever of any rust (still in there, two years later), and no plastic tubes/sachets.

EDIT: And the stands were sealed with shellac, so they weren't absorbing moisture either.

[Heavansabove]

On the topic of removing blueing & polishing your new saw. I spent a good deal of time & elbow-grease polishing some up like a mirror, however, saw-sets and abrasive woods soon took their toll on my lovely polished surfaces, so these days I usually stop at 400 grit, which looks nice enough & is far less bother. That degree of polish, plus a coat of paste-wax every now & then, gives me a saw that looks pretty good & runs smoothly. You will need to keep some sort of protection on them if you live in an area where there's any humidity at all, because this steel seems to be very susceptible to rust. All the saw steel I've used over the last few years seems to be similar in that respect. It's not just minute-pitting sort of rust, either, it gets those deep zig-zag pits that are very unsightly! I also slather the part of the plate that goes into the handle with paste-wax, or some form of protection, because some of the woods I've used for handles are quite corrosive if in contact with bare metal. One of my favourites, She-oak, is particularly potent in that respect
That is a great point on waxing under the handle, how often do we pull off a handle and find rust:doh:. Particularly for hand saws, after cleaning up the plate, I find wiping on 3-in-1 liberally and leaving in the hot sun for several hours, or in winter in front of the heater is a good rust preventative (my user saws are hanging on the wall, so exposed; backsaws are boxed). I do need to use my microcrystaline wax metal polish more often, better than a swipe with a candle end or lump of bees wax.

For polishing - finishing off with aluminium foil + Autosol, and then aluminium by itself gives a really good scratch free finish - for new or old saw plate.

cheers
Peter

[planemaker]

I respect Ian's view on clamping the hardback slot but I personally prefer to use loctite myself. The loctite also creates a sealed joint inhibiting moisture penetration. I have used this method over a number of years and have never resorted to using heat to later remove the hardback. Just treat it no differently to how you would remove a folded back.

The only caveat I would like to include is that the hardback slot should be within reasonable tolerance to the blade thickness being used. As an example an 0.020 and a 0.025 blade would be fine to loctite on a slot that's been well sized to suit, but I would a little concerned at doing the same on a 0.020 blade in a 0.032 slot without 1st clamping the slot tighter to reduce the clearance.

Stewie;

[RayG]

Hi Michael,

The preferred method is loctite, just a drop will do the job, that's the method used by Lie Nielsen, and just about everyone else.

When you use the rust-off stuff to remove the blue make sure you wash thoroughly and oil it after drying.

Looking forward to seeing some saws!

Ray

[planemaker]

I would personally recommend applying the loctite along the full length and to each side of the saw plate fit. By doing so you are not only creating a stronger bond, but this will also generate a permanent moisture barrier between these 2 parts to prevent later potential corrosion within.

Stewie;