Moving a caravan in a back yard

[plantagenon]

Need some advice please.

We have an Adria Altea Caravan which is single axle and around 1000 kg fully loaded. The ball weight is 68 kg.

I have to move the caravan about 8 metres in a straight line across a relative flat grassed yard before I can hook it up to the car. The reason for this is that the yard is an L shape and I need to pull the van up and turn it (the easy part) before I can hook it onto the car.

I bought a rachet jockey wheel but it is useless. Due to the grass and the light ball weight, the jockey wheel just spins or digs in. Even with a board under it, it still spins. I have looked at the motorised movers but they cost a lot of money and its not viable for the amount of time we use the van. At the moment 2 of us push the van into position and push it back out again but its a strain on the back as you get older.

I was thinking about cementing a pole into the ground behind the van and another 8 metres in front of it so I could connect a pulley system between the post and van to move it back and forwards. A rachet hand winch would also work but they make it a slow process. Also, with a pulley I can also use rope rather than wire (less damage if it snaps as I have one snap on a boat winch).

What sort of pulley system would I need to move the van with the least amount of effort? If there are better ideas I would like to hear them.

Thanks

[Glenn.Visca]

Conventional wisdom says ball weight should be around 10 percent of van weight.

If you increase ball weight, does the ratchet wheel work ?

I assume its pneumatic rather than solid ? Perhaps a more aggressive tyre ?

My father used a ratchet wheel on grass for years... 18 foot 1973 Capricorn .. 100kg+ ball weight.

[nrb]

How did the van get into that position to start with? it may be helpful to know so a solution can be worked out of how to get it out.

[NCArcher]

How did the van get into that position to start with?


At the moment 2 of us push the van into position and push it back out again but its a strain on the back as you get older.

:)

[wheelinround]

Electric 4x4 whinch

Sand tracks

plywood boards/planks

or a set of skis

[plantagenon]

Conventional wisdom says ball weight should be around 10 percent of van weight.

If you increase ball weight, does the ratchet wheel work ?

I assume its pneumatic rather than solid ? Perhaps a more aggressive tyre ?

My father used a ratchet wheel on grass for years... 18 foot 1973 Capricorn .. 100kg+ ball weight.

The van is a European make and has a light ball weight so that the smaller cars used in the UK and Europe can tow it. The ball weight comes up to around 90kg when the boot is loaded but that is still too light for the rachet wheel to work without slipping. Cant stand on the draw bar as it has a fibreglass cover over it that would break. A 100+ kg ball weight on a van would work as an 18 ft van would probably have 140+ ball weight if a single axle. Camex have a double wheel rachet jockey wheel that might work but unforunately they wont take it back if it doesnt work so there is no room to try it and find it doesnt work.

[naddis01]

Do you have a ride on?

[Opelblues2]

keep it simple. a fixed point - this could be a point concreted in to the ground or a removable grass/sand anchor/ with a single pulley fitted to it. then a rope running to a second double pulley fixed to the van, then back to the first pulley back to the second if you get the drift. web rope is the best. but don't use ski rope a it will stretch.
So as you walk across the yard with the rope it pulls the van by reducing the distance between the pullies. the effort needed is 1 in 3 I think. had the simular setup pull 9 tonne plus trucks out of bogs with land rover 4x4s

[Chris Parks]

Set up a post and attach a pulley (snatch block) Snatch Blocks | ARB 4x4 Accessories (http://www.arb.com.au/products/arb-recovery-equipment/snatch-block/) to it and run a rope to the van through the pulley. Make the rope as long as it needs to be to allow a car to be hooked to the free end and pull the van with the car. The van should not need much if any guidance as it will head straight for the pulley and the car does all the work, its position is not really that important in relation to the pulley. You could put it back into position that way utilising a rear pulley, attach the rope to the van, through the rear pulley, under the van, through the front pulley, free end to the car. A dual pulley system would halve the load on the rope but a good woven rope should do it ok. To guide the van going backwards I would attach a shackle to the tow ball/bar of the van and when running the rope under the van it goes through the shackle. The van has no choice except to steer straight with that system.

[The Bleeder]

What you want is something like this. Has a good mechanical advantage.

Vintage Industrial Rustic Large Farm Block Tackle Pulley SET BAR MAN Shed in Orange, NSW | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-Industrial-Rustic-Large-Farm-Block-Tackle-Pulley-Set-Bar-Man-Shed-/151152615613?pt=AU_ToolsHardwareLocks&hash=item233165e0bd#ht_1280wt_1096)

[soundman]

There are a couple of issues and a few solution.
I also have a couple of side comments.

ball weight bieng 10% of gross weight is a thing of the past.....many of the current crop of vehicles with their inflated towing capacities are only speces for 5% of towing capacity.
Likewise many of the current crop of vans are plated at arround 5% of groos weight.

one of the big issues with moving vans and trailers arround not attached to an appropriate vehicle is keeping controll of the trailer.

ALL of the trailer moving devices apart from those that drive the actual trailer wheels suffer from the problem of weight and traction.....how much they suffer depends on what you are expecting of them......quite a few of these devices are completly useless unless on near flat high traction paved surfaces....this is a regular subject on caravan and boat forums.

probaly THE most viable and affordable device IS the ride on mower.

I regularly drag trailers arround my yard with my Cox ride on.....I have dirt driveways and grass hills with pretty fair slopes on them.....the box trailer less half full of dirt presents little or no problem, my smaller boat that weighs in just under 700Kg is relativly straight forward to move on my dirt driveway (a driveway that some people have trouble reversing unladen vans up).
My larger boat that weighs in at arround 800Kg requires a little skill, throttle controll and use of weight on steeper parts of the driveway.

My brother regularly moves fairly large trailers arround hs fairly flat dirt block with his cox, to prove a point t a friend he once dragged his nissan partol ( fully loaded) out of his shed with his cox.
That friend now uses a cox to drag hsi twin engined cesna in and out of the hangar on his rural property.

Just a word with the ride ons.....um....brakes are an issue.

there are some reasonable heavy little electric trailer movers...and yeh they are expensive.

A mate of mine round the corner has built a couple that fit in place of the jockey wheel...they have been bassed on a pair of rider mower wheels and an electric boat winch motor.

If you are goind the pulled with a rope method...thing about doing it with a heavy boat winch.
the heavier boat winches came with multiple reductions....1:1...2:1... 5:5 or what ever.

the smart thing to do if youi are moving with rope is to build your anchor points well and use a safety tether so the van cant get away.

Of course thereis also the other option...a tow bar on the front of the vehicle.....you would be surprised where you can put a trailer when it is hitched to the front of the vehicle.

cheers

[SIRCOL]

use an electric winch
Heavy Duty Electric Boat Winch - 3500LBS | Crazy Sales (http://www.crazysales.com.au/heavy-duty-electric-boat-winch-3500lbs.html?utm_campaign=Winches%2C+Hoists&utm_term=3500lb&utm_source=shopping.com&utm_medium=cpc&aid=1&CA_6C15C=1162198156)

[soundman]

The problem with electric boat winches and electric winches period is...what to power it off.

they demand high currents and delivering that is not as easy as it may sound.

I have a 3 ratio winch on my larger boat........I've see guys at the ramp grinding away with their electric winches......I winch on..by hand...I'm on and gone while these guys are still grinding away.

The only thing sadder than an electric winch without adequate supply current is a deflating bag pipe.

cheers

[plantagenon]

There are a couple of issues and a few solution.

probaly THE most viable and affordable device IS the ride on mower.

I regularly drag trailers arround my yard with my Cox ride on.....

cheers

Thanks. A lot of people suggested the rachet jockey wheel, but as you say unless they are on a concrete or bitumen surface that is flat they are useless, particularly with a caravan with a light tow ball weight.

What size Cox ride on have you got? I asked a lawn mover place about ride on some time ago and they said I would only burn it out if I used it to tow a van around the yard. I thought there must be one that will do the job.

A tow ball on the front of the ute is not a bad idea also. My problem at the moment is that if I hook the van up to the ute I can only tow it forward a few metres before I run out of space. Although the yard is a rectangle in shape I cant get it around a 90 degree turn to go through the gates. This is only due to lack of room for the length of the van and ute. If I try a turn any less than 90 degrees I would hit the gates which open inwards and limit the space a bit. I can't open the gates outwards because of the slope of the land and the fact the council would have a tizz if I dug out their footpath. Another option is to put a sliding gate on the fence to give me a bit more room.

Getting back to the front tow ball. Should this be mounted in the centre of the front or off set?

I have put a couple of photos on to show what I mean. The first is they yard. Second shows the gates and the third is the van. The van normally goes right back to the fence behind it.

318529318528318530

[bsrlee]

If you go with the winch option but are worried about an ear full of broken cable, I have seen several of the hand winches are now made with a drum & feed option that uses flat woven strap instead of a cable - I think Bias Boating have some in their catalog.

[soundman]

The ride on I have is an older cox orion with a 10 or 12Hp(depending on how its measured) motor.
Of course a mower shop is going to tell you it cant and wont do it.

With a front towball you would be surprised where you can put a trailer or get it out.

As for the webbing straps on boat winches.....forget it they are a pain in the @#$3.....by far the best thing to have on pretty well any winch is diema rope....it is a very strong synthetic rope, that reduces much of the risks associated with winches..and its way lighter......relativly short lengths of this rope in the appropriate size can be had from most boating suppliers.

have you thaught about swinging your gate right in flat against the fence.....it is just a matter of locating the hinges on the inside edge of both the fence and the gate.....the hinges wont bind and the gate will swing right back flat against the fence.

cheers

[jatt]

Ride on mower. Its not like you would be moving the van around all day long. With a little commonsense and a take it easy approach I think would one would be fine.

[Marc]

When a ride on mower might do the job on concrete, I doubt it will on grass. My Cox 15HP wouldn't, thats for sure. It slips on a 30 degree slope, representing just 1/3 of its weight so how will it pull a caravan?

There are a number of good suggestions, all work but are not the sort of acrobatics you want to do. I don't own a caravan but have a boat in my backyard that I have to move up and down my ramp every time I want to use it. I have a dedicated electric ramp winch for the job and it is still a nuisance. Some of the neighbours have bought an old tractor for this and push and pull their boat up and down their ramp with it.

So to your caravan. The best answer is the simplest one. Use your car to move it. If it is me, I would make a larger sliding gate so that you can just reverse it in position.
But because it is not me, you can just fit a font tow bar and push the caravan and pull it out at will.
If fitting a front towbar is out of the question, due to the type of car, you could have fixed points in front and behind the caravan and pull forward or backwards using a towing rope through one pulley in front, or both pulleys if pulling back. You may have to re attach the rope a few times depending how much room you have out the gate. Awkward but possible. Sandbag on the rope a must to avoid decapitation of the helper.

Bigger gate is the go. :U

[OldGrain]

Hmmn.Move the swing set to a new position then you can reverse the caravan through the gates to where the swings were. Simple hook up when you need to travel.

[plantagenon]

Thanks for the replies. Its been some time since I put this post on. We ended up buying a bigger caravan with a Purple line mover fitted and no further problems with moving it around the yard. The Purple line will turn the van in its own length and it can be moved from the street into the parking spot in the back yard without any troubles.

[Big Shed]

Hi Greg, what caravan did you change over to?

[plantagenon]

Hi Fred.

We bought an Elddis Affinity 550 which is 18'8" x 6'11" inside and 24'3" overall. It is a single axle English made van with a raised chassis and additional cross bar under specially built for Australia. Its not really an off-roader but the commercials show it being driven along outback dirt roads (something we wont be doing) It has a TARE of 1366kgs, an ATM of 1700 kgs and a ball weight of only 55kgs. It has override brakes and an anti-sway computer controlled braking system. It tows beautifully behind the small 4cyl diesel BT50 ute.

We wanted a European van because of the low ball weight and overall weight compared with an Australian made van and also we wanted a large front lounge (small double fold out bed) and large front windows. We were tossing up between the Elddis and a Baileys but went with the Elddis because of a better deal with price.

Also, the Elddis offers a bedroom (full Queen size island bed with storage underneath) at the rear and a separate shower and toilet. If you open the toilet door fully it latches across the small hallway closing off the bedroom completely and providing an ensuite. More of a gimmick really but it allows the air con to work better in the bedroom as it can be altered to blow air either forward, back or both.

A benefit for Melbourne (but certainly not Brisbane) is the van also has a central heating system with ducting through the bedroom, toilet, kitchen area and behind the lounge. All the electircal and gas components are fully certified for Australian warranty and can be repaired or replaced here. Apparently, the trouble with some of the grey imports (which are cheaper) is the electrical system is different and the warranty on heaters, air-con, stove and fridge are only covered in Europe and have to be sent there for repair.

We also looked at the new Adria vans and although weight wise they are similar, we didnt like the layout as much. However, the Adria is a well built, solid van and we didnt have any problems with the other one.

Time to upgrade?

Greg

[Big Shed]

Thanks Greg, sounds good.

Since I saw you last we have had 2 upgrades! We went from our Jayco Penguin camper trailer to a Jayco Heritage poptop. The camper trailer was nice to tow and easy to set up but on longer trips, such as our trip to Cairns/Cooktown we tended to get in each others' way.:rolleyes:

So we thought we'd buy a caravan, didn't want a full height van so went for a poptop. Took that to Tassie and a few other places and came to the conclusion that it would actually be nice to have a toilet and shower on board.:rolleyes:

I had been wanting a 5th wheeler for some time but the Minister of War and Finance was dead set against that as she didn't want to "drive a semi trailer":wink:.

Anyway last August we were on our way to north Queensland again, decided to do the Newell Hwy, and driving through Narrabri she spotted this 5th wheeler and (stupidly) pointed it out to me.
Did a quick U turn and inspected it, she actually fell in love with it but neither of us were too sure about making such a big step so we kept going.

In Monto we ran in to a NZ couple towing a 5th wheeler of similar size and got talking to them (on the road full time) and he offered for me to drive his rig so I could get an idea what to expect. It was a 28 footer being towed with a Holden Colorado dual cab. Great to tow, easy to reverse, hitching unhitching was a cinch.

So, long story short, we turned around, back to Narrabri, made an offer on the 5th wheeler, back to Bendigo to drop our caravan off, down to Melbourne to buy a Colorado Space Cab ute, back to Narrabri to pick up the 5th wheeler and back to Victoria to get it registered there, phew.

We had looked at the Euro style vans prior to buying the 5th wheeler but even though we both liked layouts and features they didn't look all that capable to take on dirt roads, as we like to visit some places that aren't on the bitumen.

[plantagenon]

Wow - you really have upgraded Fred.:o

I was looking over a 5th wheeler when we were at Hervey Bay last. It is a brilliant set up and the owner could walk over the roof to clean it and make adjustments. They have a heap of room in them and there is nothing better than having a toilet (in particular) and a shower. Its a real bugger getting up at 3am and walking to the park loos through the rain.

I was wondering how it would tow and what the fuel economy would be like. I imagine the Colorado is diesel which helps a lot with economy and pulling power.

[Big Shed]

Wow - you really have upgraded Fred.:o

I was looking over a 5th wheeler when we were at Hervey Bay last. It is a brilliant set up and the owner could walk over the roof to clean it and make adjustments. They have a heap of room in them and there is nothing better than having a toilet (in particular) and a shower. Its a real bugger getting up at 3am and walking to the park loos through the rain.

I was wondering how it would tow and what the fuel economy would be like. I imagine the Colorado is diesel which helps a lot with economy and pulling power.

Yes, the Colorado is diesel and has 470nm of torque, it copes with the 3T 5th wheeler very well. Uses a bit more juice than our previous Terracan/Jayco which used around the 13-15 l/100k. This combo uses 16-18 /100k but you get a lot more for your money I guess.

Yes, the midnight dash isn't the best when it is 2 C or raining cats and dogs, we used to have a Porta Potti but that wears thin as well.

The 5th wheeler has a slide out and it came with a sofa as well as the usual dinette setup. We have since ditched the sofa and replaced it with a couple of very comfortable recliners.

We are now fully self contained with 3 tanks for water, grey water and black water so we can free camp anywhere as we are not great fans of caravan parks.

I have installed a good solar setup so power is taken care of as well.

[plantagenon]

16-18 l/100 k is not bad economy towing a heavy 5th wheeler. Our old Ford Territory was using 16 l/100l without anything on the back. Then at 6 years old it started to fall apart. They don't build them to last long these days. We changed over to a VW Tiguan and its a great little car - 5.5 l/100k. Also bought the BT50 for towing the van as the ball weight on the VW is only 100kg and we wanted something that would carry the electric bikes as well. Even the BT50 only burns around 9 l/100k when towing.

The slide out would give you a lot more room and its nice to customise the vans to suit your own needs. If I win Gold Lotto we might consider a motor home but with the odds on winning lotto I think we will have the van for a while.

[wheelinround]

Greg only just saw the photos of the yard etc, either widen the gate or put another gate down the fence further and a drive through. I have seen a van park use the same sort of electric/battery powered trolly (https://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1920&bih=1047&q=caravan+dolly+electric&oq=caravan+dolly&gs_l=img.3.2.0j0i24l3.2490.6246.0.10664.13.13.0.0.0.0.252.1735.0j7j2.9.0....0...1ac.1.58.img..4.9.1732.bAFcEsp7Ets) collection cart to move vans about I think even at a caravan sales yard. A special hitch had been made.

My neighbour has a similar problem with his boat reversing it in has to do 2x90 deg turns he had set up a tracking device and winch he hooked up to the rear of the boat trailer worked well for a while.

Always find it on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/bhp/trailer-mover)

[wheelinround]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F9ED4ZC3Lc

Looks like an old rotray hoe

[plantagenon]

Problem has been solved mate. See posts above - We bought a new caravan and had a Purpleline Mover fitted to it. They put a 12v motor in front of each wheel of the van. You wind a cog affair the width of the wheel onto the tyre and then stand back with a remote control and move the caravan in and out of the yard and in any direction in the yard. I could never have got it in by towing it but with this new gizmo it only takes a couple of minutes and is a piece of ****.

I had tried a small attachable mover a bit smaller than the one in the photo but it just slipped on the grass as the ball weight of the van is very light.